New players as cannon fodder for veterans

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

So in just 2 months of playing the game, an average playing could have 4 VR16 's with nearly all traits researched, a good supply of mats/gold, and roughly 300-400cp.

Regarding the traits, it's mathematically impossible. You can't get "nearly all traits researched" in two months. THere are 306 traits to research, so even spread between 4 characters and provided you had all the skill points and bonuses on all 4 from the very start, it still is mathematically impossible.

zornyan wrote: »

I currently work 100hours a week as a full time carer for an agency, whilst I also have 3 pets (that require constant attention) a girlfriend that's likes us to go out and socialise most evenings, and I'm a big car enthusiast that spends alot of time working on my own and friends cars, whilst attending shows and events regularly.

I have a pretty *** good life, I work hard, I play hard, I simply don't waste time like.most Folk, I'm up at 6 am everyday and don't go to sleep till 12pm, plenty of time to sleep when you're dead n all.

Weeks have 168 hours.
100 of work, 42 of sleep and 14 of pet-care already make up for 156 hours, which leaves 12 hours / week for girlfriend, socializing, cars, eating, transportation, washing and going to the toilets. Oh I forgot writing on forums. And playing ESO !!!

Try again...

zornyan · September 2015

Writing on forums is done whilst at work

zornyan · September 2015

Here's my current type of working schedule, I either do a 8am-10pm shift, or I do a set amount of 24 hour live-in shifts, in which case I work roughly from 7-7:30am till about 11pm, and roughly get 3-4 hours of sleep due to being up to look after the patient throughout the night multiple times.

I've been here since Monday night, I finish work tomorrow morning, so this week ive been at work for roughly 85-90 hours (think my payslip for this week is 84?

I get till Monday morning off of work, then I'm doing 7 days here without a break, so next week I'll literially be at work for 168 hours (minus my 1 hour break each day to go see my Mrs as we live close)

The following week ive got 4 24 hour days in a row, then 2 8-10 shifts.

Like I said that's just the way it is, I'm hoping to change careers soon as it's exhausting even at 26!

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

@zornyan :

Frankly, we don't care.
My point was to prove that you were exaggerating and stating as "normal" or "standard" things and situations that are extreme if not completely impossible. Don't provide more details with your life because whatever you say, we don't believe you anymore.

Same as a couple of quantified things you said about the game (back to topic...) such as the research times (but that's only an example) and that example shows, mathematically, that you are wrong and not really aware of what you are talking about.

Now even closer to topic : stop pretending that any casual can easily and should be as strong as a full-time and long-time player, because that is WRONG. Skill and talent play a role in people's efficiency in PvP (as well as PvE) but playtime does, too ! I don't know if it's good, bad, fair or unfair, but it is TRUE.

DaveMoeDee · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

Okay so 3 hours a day for average Joe, so anyone that can actually play the game with half a brain can do each zone in 3hours or under, so within 6 days they'll be 50, then at the same rate (thanks to the xp buffs and lowered xp for vet ranks) it'll be 2 vet ranks per zone, at that rate they'll be VR16 in an additional 7-8 days.

So 14 days playing for the average person, that means they'll have what? 80-90 CP?

So in just 2 months of playing the game, an average playing could have 4 VR16 's with nearly all traits researched, a good supply of mats/gold, and roughly 300-400cp.

So you're saying 2 months is too long to essentially reach max.level in an MMO?

Man, you are doing some magic math. Either that, or you are really out of touch with what an average player is. I think you are just making up numbers with no basis in the actual game.

I would say that I have not just more than half a brain, but an actual full brain. 3 hours per zone? Is the average Joe supposed to not listen to any dialogue? I'm pretty sure the average Joe does not use XP buffs.

When you say "do each zone", are you only talking about the main quest for that zone only? Are you excluding delves and dolmens?

I'm also shocked by you "nearly all traits" claim. Are you splitting different pieces of gear among different characters (one character does gauntlets, another does sabatons)?

Personally, I don't see the point in trying to get to VR16 in two months anyway. Better to enjoy the content longer before running out. But your claims are out of touch with how typical people actually play. Heck, even 3 hours a day is quite high for an average player.

DaveMoeDee · September 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

coryrenick_ESO wrote: »

I can cut up sentences and twist the words too!

Where did I twist any of your words as you did to me?
I just made a long story short by *quoting* the essentials.

You suffered immensely in ESO, read your very own words. Please understand that suffering is not the primary reason for most people to buy and play a game. If you study PS4 achievements, you will see that only a fraction of people seems to appreciate suffering. Many people love non vet (balanced) PVP - until they become V1 and then quit playing because of the absurd imbalances in vet PVP. Can ESO really afford losing so many players? Wouldn't it be smarter to bring balance to vet PVP too instead of largening the gear gap with this patch even more?

How do you know they didn't just quit after finishing the main story? What percentage of PS4 players evaluated the game based on PvP?

zornyan · September 2015

@DaveMoeDee I was simply saying what is possible for someone spending on a few hours a day on the game is possible.

Sure you want to read all the dialogue for every quest and do every side quest that gives little exp and explore everything, I've basically done it on my first character, left no stone unturned.

But after talking to king emeric for his quests for the 6th time, that gets clicked through, and I don't do every small quest that is boring (like run point a to b, and back again) for little to no exp.

I've done it once to experience it, but my alts are made for specific reasons, I've experienced the storyline and listened to all the dialogue, I don't need to do that.multiple times.

Re the traits comment, I was talking specifically about armor (I'm at 8 for all but the girdle for heavy armor, med/light, woodwork) and have about 2 of each weapon (working on them as I've only left nirn out) which is spread out across several characters.

It was a point to say that it's easy enough to learn to skills to build mostly any set you want at endgame.

Also my point on the fastest possible route was what zos themselves said is possible. You saying they lie about how long their game can be completed in?

@anitajoneb17_ESO I'm not pretending anything, I truly believe vets should be more powerful that noobs otherwise there is zero incentive to become stronger in pvp. This game is hugely hugely short compared to most mmorpgs. Hell the leveling system is extremely short (yes including vet ranks) and it's stupidly fast to get to endgame and essentially be 'done' with it.

Compared to games like everquest, where you would be literially grinding for a year or anarchy online that took a months per level (from 200-220) this is probably one of the easiest MMO games to play.

I really don't give a *** what you think is possible or not, nor do I care what you think, as you are merely a name on the Internet.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

Also my point on the fastest possible route was what zos themselves said is possible. You saying they lie about how long their game can be completed in?

No, I think you lie (or are just wrong) by saying ZOS said so. Source please ?

zornyan wrote: »

Hell the leveling system is extremely short (yes including vet ranks) and it's stupidly fast to get to endgame and essentially be 'done' with it.

Compared to games like everquest, where you would be literially grinding for a year or anarchy online that took a months per level (from 200-220) this is probably one of the easiest MMO games to play.

So basically you are advising people to skip all they can (otherwise they waste their time or play badly or are overcasual or just not organised ??? ), THEN say that the game is "short", that grindier games are "longer" (better ? more serious ?) ??? Well I'm not sure what you are trying to say but as already mentioned, you seem to not really know what you are talking about when you talk about ESO. I'm also wondering if you're not mixing up "short" (which it isn't) with "easy" (which it isn't either but the game is not really difficult).

Levelling a toon to VR14 does not only mean have a "VR14" sign near its name. It also means having collected the skillpoints and skyshards, having levelled up all needed skills and above, having made enough gold to get proper gear and/or having farmed/grinded/traded enough goods to get said gear.

Believe me : levelling a toon to ALL aspects of VR14/16 requires at least 2 months full-time and 6/8 months for a casual. It's not offered on a silver plate.

leepalmer95 · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

@DaveMoeDee I was simply saying what is possible for someone spending on a few hours a day on the game is possible.

Sure you want to read all the dialogue for every quest and do every side quest that gives little exp and explore everything, I've basically done it on my first character, left no stone unturned.

But after talking to king emeric for his quests for the 6th time, that gets clicked through, and I don't do every small quest that is boring (like run point a to b, and back again) for little to no exp.

I've done it once to experience it, but my alts are made for specific reasons, I've experienced the storyline and listened to all the dialogue, I don't need to do that.multiple times.

Re the traits comment, I was talking specifically about armor (I'm at 8 for all but the girdle for heavy armor, med/light, woodwork) and have about 2 of each weapon (working on them as I've only left nirn out) which is spread out across several characters.

It was a point to say that it's easy enough to learn to skills to build mostly any set you want at endgame.

Also my point on the fastest possible route was what zos themselves said is possible. You saying they lie about how long their game can be completed in?

@anitajoneb17_ESO I'm not pretending anything, I truly believe vets should be more powerful that noobs otherwise there is zero incentive to become stronger in pvp. This game is hugely hugely short compared to most mmorpgs. Hell the leveling system is extremely short (yes including vet ranks) and it's stupidly fast to get to endgame and essentially be 'done' with it.

Compared to games like everquest, where you would be literially grinding for a year or anarchy online that took a months per level (from 200-220) this is probably one of the easiest MMO games to play.

I really don't give a *** what you think is possible or not, nor do I care what you think, as you are merely a name on the Internet.

Someone failed maths...

zornyan · September 2015

@leepalmer95 er where did I even post any mathematical equations in that section?

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

@leepalmer95 er where did I even post any mathematical equations in that section?

You didn't. I did. I don't think "someone failed maths" referred to me.
Problem is that you repeatedly state your opinions as "quantified facts" when they're contradicted by simple maths.

I don't mind discussing opinions, nor that people think differently, but I do mind when the "facts" stated to argue said opinions are objectively plain wrong.

rb2001 · September 2015

Do people even read what they write? New players as cannon fodder for VETERANS? No.. really? The whole point of a veteran warrior is that he is better than the fresh recruits...

If veterans and longtime players aren't better than the newbies, what's the point of even gaining power? What is the point of gaining power if everyone gets it too just because they are whiny?

How is a power gain even a power gain if everyone else is brought to the same level nearly right away?

zornyan · September 2015

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/195652/1-cp-every-36-mins-with-psijic-ambrosia/p4

Here is a link to show how you can earn 1 CP every 10-15 mins without enlightenment...

So let's say 15 mins, 3600cp earnt will take

54000 minutes, which is 900 hours or 75 12 hour days.

Now go down to the low fast number of 12 minutes

43200 minutes, 720 hours, or 60 12 hour days.

So literally any new player in the game, (with enough time and brain power and of course doing the basic work to hit vr1) could get 3600cp in 60-75 days.

Yes this includes xp buffs, but he isn't using rings of Mara for another 10% so that's another time saver there.

Now this isn't average Joe no, but the term unreachable is pretty stupid

No other MMO I've played anyone could hit max rank that fast.

leepalmer95 · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/195652/1-cp-every-36-mins-with-psijic-ambrosia/p4

Here is a link to show how you can earn 1 CP every 10-15 mins without enlightenment...

So let's say 15 mins, 3600cp earnt will take

54000 minutes, which is 900 hours or 75 12 hour days.

Now go down to the low fast number of 12 minutes

43200 minutes, 720 hours, or 60 12 hour days.

So literally any new player in the game, (with enough time and brain power and of course doing the basic work to hit vr1) could get 3600cp in 60-75 days.

Yes this includes xp buffs, but he isn't using rings of Mara for another 10% so that's another time saver there.

Now this isn't average Joe no, but the term unreachable is pretty stupid

No other MMO I've played anyone could hit max rank that fast.

Do yourself a favour, read the link you posted i haven't clicked it yet but your link clearly says and i quote ' 1-cp-every-36-mins-with-psijic-ambrosia/p4 ' so why have you magically more than halfed this number?

You can't earn a cp every 10 mins... that 400k exp every 10 mins which is 2.4m an hour....

No one will every hit it that fast, no one is that patient, the grind spots aren't consistent you lose exp when there is too many people.

DaveMoeDee · September 2015

Personally, I am not a fan of projecting problems on to new players. Why should we assume that new players are going to complain that they have to play the content they bought? A lot of us aren't trying to rush to "end game". Are there hard numbers that say that the people who play a lot of hours questing and leisurely developing characters are less in number than people who rush to endgame to run trials or play PvP?

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/195652/1-cp-every-36-mins-with-psijic-ambrosia/p4

Here is a link to show how you can earn 1 CP every 10-15 mins without enlightenment...

So let's say 15 mins, 3600cp earnt will take

54000 minutes, which is 900 hours or 75 12 hour days.

Now go down to the low fast number of 12 minutes

43200 minutes, 720 hours, or 60 12 hour days.

So literally any new player in the game, (with enough time and brain power and of course doing the basic work to hit vr1) could get 3600cp in 60-75 days.

Yes this includes xp buffs, but he isn't using rings of Mara for another 10% so that's another time saver there.

Now this isn't average Joe no, but the term unreachable is pretty stupid

No other MMO I've played anyone could hit max rank that fast.

You mentioned a statement by ZOS, where is it ????

What you link is just some players' assumptions, and even those are biased, because that's with XP boosters. In order to get said XP boosters, you have to either make them yourself, which means go fishing for hours (you must add those hours into your calculation), or buy them in gold (which means you have to spend time ingame earning this gold one way or the other), or buy them in crowns. Either way, it's 864 psijic ambrosia (!!!!!!!!!!!) or 360 XP scrolls.....

Again, proves that you've not enough knowledge of the game to know what's realistic and what isn't.

zornyan · September 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/195652/1-cp-every-36-mins-with-psijic-ambrosia/p4

Here is a link to show how you can earn 1 CP every 10-15 mins without enlightenment...

So let's say 15 mins, 3600cp earnt will take

54000 minutes, which is 900 hours or 75 12 hour days.

Now go down to the low fast number of 12 minutes

43200 minutes, 720 hours, or 60 12 hour days.

So literally any new player in the game, (with enough time and brain power and of course doing the basic work to hit vr1) could get 3600cp in 60-75 days.

Yes this includes xp buffs, but he isn't using rings of Mara for another 10% so that's another time saver there.

Now this isn't average Joe no, but the term unreachable is pretty stupid

No other MMO I've played anyone could hit max rank that fast.

Do yourself a favour, read the link you posted i haven't clicked it yet but your link clearly says and i quote ' 1-cp-every-36-mins-with-psijic-ambrosia/p4 ' so why have you magically more than halfed this number?

You can't earn a cp every 10 mins... that 400k exp every 10 mins which is 2.4m an hour....

No one will every hit it that fast, no one is that patient, the grind spots aren't consistent you lose exp when there is too many people.

You do yourself a favour and read the damm link, there's multiple posts on that very page I showed you showing 1cp every 12-14 minutes.

newtinmpls · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

You should be able to clear an area in vet level in 2-3 hours easily, make sure to note which quests to avoid (there's several I've seen in DC that make you run around for ages that give little exp) and choose the most important ones, with the highest exp, least amount of screwing around and also skill points.

ACK!! I'm in pain even from reading this. Are you talking about clearing a whole ZONE in ... three hours?? If it's fun for you - by all means go for it.

To me it would be taking a game which I enjoy and stripping the life and the fun right out of it <shudders>

zornyan wrote: »

Raw meat diet is the best diet for any dog/cat/ferret.

Working in health care - and having had many cats and dogs with highly individualized allergies, food reactions and so on - I compulsively take issue with any one "best" for any category of entities (humans included). If your ferrets and critters do well on "all meat all the time" then by god go with it.

I notice that my animals do best (in terms of general health and lower incidence of small weird things - bug bites, ear wax and so on) with a variety of food types (some "kibble", some wild grasses/plants, some "human food", some probiotics - usually a fancy way of saying I share my yogurt) some bones from the butcher and some just plain meat.

Oh, and keeping the golden retriever out of the river - its not clean water and she's allergic to it.

newtinmpls · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

I've done it once to experience it, but my alts are made for specific reasons, I've experienced the storyline and listened to all the dialogue, I don't need to do that.multiple times.

Clearly we have very different play-styles.

My underlying reason for making alts in each case is to experience the world/ story/ setting/ game through the eyes and point of view of that particular character. Yes, I sometimes go faster - but rushing or skipping would defeat the whole point of having created those characters in the first place.

Anyway, at the point where a few of my 16 alts reach "the top" I'll probably have enough experience/ familiarity with the "top" skills to not be so easily ganked by people who have played longer... but I kinda doubt it.

zornyan · September 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

You should be able to clear an area in vet level in 2-3 hours easily, make sure to note which quests to avoid (there's several I've seen in DC that make you run around for ages that give little exp) and choose the most important ones, with the highest exp, least amount of screwing around and also skill points.

ACK!! I'm in pain even from reading this. Are you talking about clearing a whole ZONE in ... three hours?? If it's fun for you - by all means go for it.

To me it would be taking a game which I enjoy and stripping the life and the fun right out of it <shudders>

zornyan wrote: »

Raw meat diet is the best diet for any dog/cat/ferret.

Working in health care - and having had many cats and dogs with highly individualized allergies, food reactions and so on - I compulsively take issue with any one "best" for any category of entities (humans included). If your ferrets and critters do well on "all meat all the time" then by god go with it.

I notice that my animals do best (in terms of general health and lower incidence of small weird things - bug bites, ear wax and so on) with a variety of food types (some "kibble", some wild grasses/plants, some "human food", some probiotics - usually a fancy way of saying I share my yogurt) some bones from the butcher and some just plain meat.

Oh, and keeping the golden retriever out of the river - its not clean water and she's allergic to it.

Clearing a zone as in doing the main quests required, plus a few of the side quests depending on exp value. I've taken my time with each zone before to complete clear it as such, but as I've mentioned I don't fancy doing every single side quest dozens of times over.

I understand your point about a varied diet I meant purely for carnivorous animals, the average life expectancy of s ferret on raw meat is 9-10 years where as one that's fed kibble etc is only 4-5 years. So it must have some large effect imo

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Also my point on the fastest possible route was what zos themselves said is possible. You saying they lie about how long their game can be completed in?

No, I think you lie (or are just wrong) by saying ZOS said so. Source please ?

@zornyan : mind providing this source please ? (/reminder)

newtinmpls · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

Clearing a zone as in doing the main quests required, plus a few of the side quests depending on exp value. I've taken my time with each zone before to complete clear it as such, but as I've mentioned I don't fancy doing every single side quest dozens of times over.

<shaking head>

Three hours for this..... I just can't imagine that could be fun.

Of course that's coming from someone who did Toothmaul gully 5 times (three with one character -'escorting' characters of various friends through it) because I enjoy it so much.