New players as cannon fodder for veterans

Transorb

I consider my time spent leveling to V14 (and now V16) as actual work. I did not enjoy it the slightest, the only reason for leveling to V14 at the time was so I could be competitive in PVP. With that said, I consider myself an average, slow, casual player. It took me almost 8 months to level up casually to v14. I sat in a dungeon, every day, alone, grinding for every minute of free time I had to spare.

It was long, boring, and excruciating. Getting legendary gear was a whole nother story. That took even longer. Everybody you see rocking maxed legendary gear, max character level, max skill levels, has put their time in. It most certainly is not unobtainable, and yes those who play more and have better gear will be better than you. Take it as an opportunity to learn to play smart.

I got destroyed nonstop from v1 to about v12 in PVP. I learned a lot though, which was imperative for me to learn the play style that I currently play -- which by the way I still get slaughtered by a handful of elite players.

With all of that said, all if fair in love and war. Put your time in, grind to max, plan your gear and buy/build it incrementally and strategically, and you will get there. This is how the game works, apologies if I sound rude -- but you can't just expect a new player with 100 hours invested to compete on the same level as somebody with 1000's of hours logged, practicing, refining and perfecting their build and strategy.

zornyan

This is doubtful. Care to try again with less exaggeration?

I play a few hours each day, here or there. I could get maybe 9-10 CP a week, but I'll admit I wasn't going all out in the effort. But that's kind of what's being talked about. You shouldn't have to go all the way and then some just to enjoy some PvP without getting stomped into the ground, over and over, only to be called a zerg when you dare team up with others for protection.[/quote]

Er excuse me? So you know me now? Let's see

I'm a full time carer, that does both live-in and drop in shifts, I for instance have spent the last week away from home at my job, so have had zero play time, I also have many days booked next week in which I average 12-14 hours a day.

I have 2 cats, and one ferret (used to have 2 but one recently passed so getting another) which requires.

I got hunting/shooting in some evenings to get rabbits to feed my ferrets
I spend 20 mins every day cleaning their cage out, preparing their food (gutting the rabbits) etc
I spend 1.5-2 hours everyday "play" time with them, in which she/they require social interaction and time spent with them.

I have my own house, 4 cars in between me and the Mrs (as I have a dedicated track car as I like race days) which I work on and maintain/modify as and when needed.

Me and the Mrs go to see our friends regularly, that's normally a couple evenings a week taken up, we also go to things like the cinema,track days, car shows, local meets, family events/meals etc

I have a busy life, but it's worth it. Earning 9 CP a week? That's pathetic, you're telling me that doing a single cadwell silver/gold area would take you A WEEK?

Enlightenment = 10 CP per vet level, with the new system you'll get 2 vet levels per area, or roughly 1.8 mill exp. That's 18 CP right there. Or 4 if your not enlightened.

Hell that's 2 hours of gameplay...

BalticBlues

Transorb wrote: »

I consider my time spent leveling to V14 (and now V16) as actual work. I did not enjoy it the slightest, the only reason for leveling to V14 at the time was so I could be competitive in PVP.
[...]
It was long, boring, and excruciating.
[...]
I got destroyed nonstop from v1 to about v12 in PVP.
[...]
This is how the game works

So in your opinion ESO vet PVP is for masochists?
If so, I am afraid success will be limited on the long run.

SirAndy

zornyan wrote: »

...

TL:DR all the drivel about your personal life. Nobody cares ...

Transorb

BalticBlues wrote: »

Transorb wrote: »

I consider my time spent leveling to V14 (and now V16) as actual work. I did not enjoy it the slightest, the only reason for leveling to V14 at the time was so I could be competitive in PVP.
[...]
It was long, boring, and excruciating.
[...]
I got destroyed nonstop from v1 to about v12 in PVP.
[...]
This is how the game works

ESO vet PVP is for masochists, I am afraid.

I can cut up sentences and twist the words too! So now you're stating you're afraid because ESO is for masochists?

Don't be outrageous. I'm not here to argue, I just wanted to provide my honest opinion. I will not lie and say I enjoyed minute of the grind to max. The road is not paved in silver lining, however I do destroy many people, even groups of people. I confuse, disorient, provoke, and conquer many players -- and I enjoy it immensly. But it was a long road to get here.

zornyan

SirAndy wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

...

TL:DR all the drivel about your personal life. Nobody cares ...

People want to start saying you can't have a life etc then I'll prove them wrong.

You're clearly trolling anyway as I've proven (and zos has even said) that any casual can get 300 CP hardcap in a very short amount of time.

You clearly refuse to believe this even though ive posted the stats for you to figure out in the tiny brain of yours.

Besides you're arguing a point that's clearly not going to change, zos makes the changes, they don't agree with you. Have fun moaning on a forum kid.

coryrenick_ESO

zornyan wrote: »

Er excuse me? So you know me now?

I know exaggeration when I see it. And I don't see anyone working 12-14 hour days and spending hours with pets and cars and hunting too boot has time to play at all, let alone grind out dozens of CP every week.
I put in time when I can, and CP isn't so plentiful in actual playtime as it is on paper in your rant. I'd expect you to know that if your days were as jam packed with activity as you claim.

SirAndy

zornyan wrote: »

You clearly refuse to believe this even though ive posted the stats for you to figure out in the tiny brain of yours. Have fun moaning on a forum kid.

zornyan

SirAndy wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

You clearly refuse to believe this even though ive posted the stats for you to figure out in the tiny brain of yours. Have fun moaning on a forum kid.

Such a well thought out and meaning full reply...You're contributing so.much to this thread....Oh wait!

Go home troll.

BalticBlues

coryrenick_ESO wrote: »

I can cut up sentences and twist the words too!

Where did I twist any of your words as you did to me?
I just made a long story short by *quoting* the essentials.

You suffered immensely in ESO, read your very own words. Please understand that suffering is not the primary reason for most people to buy and play a game. If you study PS4 achievements, you will see that only a fraction of people seems to appreciate suffering. Many people love non vet (balanced) PVP - until they become V1 and then quit playing because of the absurd imbalances in vet PVP. Can ESO really afford losing so many players? Wouldn't it be smarter to bring balance to vet PVP too instead of largening the gear gap with this patch even more?

SirAndy

zornyan wrote: »

Such a well thought out and meaning full reply...You're contributing so.much to this thread....Oh wait!
Go home troll.

zornyan

coryrenick_ESO wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Er excuse me? So you know me now?

I know exaggeration when I see it. And I don't see anyone working 12-14 hour days and spending hours with pets and cars and hunting too boot has time to play at all, let alone grind out dozens of CP every week.
I put in time when I can, and CP isn't so plentiful in actual playtime as it is on paper in your rant. I'd expect you to know that if your days were as jam packed with activity as you claim.

I play in the early hours of the morning, or late hours of the evening, I do sometimes get the odd spare day in which I'll spend that playing etc. Its busy, but I kinda like it.

My average shift for say a 12 hour day would be 8-8 so I'd be up at 6,1 hour with ferrets, go to work, do another hour, then I'll play till about 12-1am if we're not doing anything in the evening for instance.

Last time I bothered to work.on one of.my characters. I was earning 1.3mil exp per hour grinding, with only ESO plus, not scrolls or potions

That's an easy 13 CP with enlightenment.

Or for an hours work without enlightenment but with a scroll you're looking at what? 5 an hour maybe. That's not bad exactly...

I just make sure to spend my time wisely, don't bother with most loot for instance, I will accept 1 person in a group for the 10% exp buff, I just make sure to get the best amount of experience out of my.play time.

coryrenick_ESO

zornyan wrote: »

I just make sure to spend my time wisely, don't bother with most loot for instance, I will accept 1 person in a group for the 10% exp buff, I just make sure to get the best amount of experience out of my.play time.

What you consider time spent wisely is not necessarily the same for others. I loot everything and makes trips back to town all the time to decon. I craft. I trade. I wait around for a group to PvE. I don't think it's too much to ask that multiple playstyles, not just grindfests, are more viable than just AP feed for the other alliances if they want to PvP.

ItsRejectz

Cathexis wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Why shouldn't people who have played the game for over a year be stronger than people who are new to the game?

Because it creates an environment where no one new wants to play.

So what, again your catering for one side, the new players! But how is it fair on long term players?

So what is the point in spending months obtaining new gear and refining your build, if only to be gimped for new players?
It makes no sense at all, the whole point of an mmo is to have your character grow and become strong the longer you play with it.

leepalmer95

So the TL:DR is you want experience, skill and gear on a silver platter.

This is definitely a L2P issue ^^

Thecapeo

In my experience, as a PS4 player that just hit 14 last week, it's mostly a L2P issue. If you're getting 1-2 shot outside of maybe a snipe rotation gank off of horseback, then it's usually a combo of your mitigation/health being too low or not having a clue how to deal with/anticipate the other players moves. I must have respeced 5-6 times from 1-14 experimenting with builds. The biggest thing though was reading about how to deal with specific skills. If you keep seeing the same abilities killing you on your death recap then read up or ask other people how they counter those abilities. Eventuallly you start lasting longer and longer and eventually you'll start taking people out in 1vX situations. By VR10 I was able to take out your average V14s on a regular basis and now I can hang and often win against a lot of the better PC transfer players I play against every night.

BalticBlues

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So the TL:DR is you want experience, skill and gear on a silver platter.

No. In e-sports, experience and skill have nothing to do with gear and CP.
Unfortunately TESO isn't sports, here you can buy victories with better gear and CP.

When CPs decide victories, sportsmanship is going down the drain.
If you do not believe me, listen to great players as Deltia.

L2P? If you would know how to play, you could play fair against new players without CPs. L2P.

zornyan

Agreed. People just don't like losing, it's never their skill that's a problem, the enemy must

Be a sad ganker no lifer
Be op class
Be op race
Be a shield stacking sorcerer
Be a crystal frag spammer
Be a bolt spamming noob
Be a radiant destruction spammer
Be a clock spammer
Be a surprise attack spammer
Be a wrecking blow spammer
be a biting jabs spammer
Be a zerger
Be a cold Fire abusing noob
Be an animation cancelling cheater
Be a macro using cheater
Be a CP abusing ***

And there's tons more, I never hear "got ganked today, they dished out some huge damage, must have spent months building that up, gg"

blur

BalticBlues wrote: »

What already was bad got worse with patch 2.1.4

Even though new players in PVP were already helpless against V14 players with their unreachable gear and CPs, with Patch 2.1.4 the enchantments of new players even have been nerved and V14 gear has been buffed:

ZOS Patch 2.1.4 wrote:

• Decreased Health, Magicka, and Stamina enchantments at lower levels. At VR14, these items now provide about 4% more.
• Decreased resistances to specific elements, such as fire damage, at lower levels. At higher levels, they were increased by up to 25% at VR14.
• Decreased the proc damage (such as Fiery Weapon) at low levels, and increased by up to 7% at VR14.
• Decreased the cost reduction at lower levels, though values remain largely unchanged for VR14 player characters.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2200164/#Comment_2200164

Why ZOS wants new players to suffer even more in PVP?

No such thing as unreachable gear and CP.
New Players are going to be bad in PvP regardless.
On my vr1 I can kill new players who are vr14. It's not CP, it's not gear... it's experience.
Take time to learn the game, stop looking for things to whine about thus removing your own effort from the equation.
ZOS has already dumbed the game down enough for newbies to play at levels higher than they deserve.

BalticBlues

As a reminder: The topic of this post is about why it is necessary to patch the weakest players even weaker and patch the strongest players even stronger by lowering/boosting their gear values. NOT A SINGLE POSTER in this thread had an answer to that except of "L2P". L2P? Perhaps rather you should L2P without needing extra boosts over new players to bolster your egos. I guess "empathy" and "sportsmanship" are not words in your dictionaries...

rb2001

I can't wrap my head around the stupidity..

Why in seven hells would anyone expect to be as good as a character that's been playing and building their power for years.. when they just started?

If these kids want instant gratification, and don't want to spend time to make power gains, what the actual **** are they doing in an MMORPG?

I repeat, what the **** are these kids doing in and MMORPG and complaining that the longtime players are stronger?

The entire point of an MMORPG is to spend time and gain power through various means, over time.

Everything those longtime players have, literally everything, can be achieved by a new player, if they also spend the same time. THAT is fair.

Anyone wanting a catch up mechanic, or to be able to be on par with someone who put more in is a lazy... I'll have to stop there.

Thecapeo

BalticBlues wrote: »

As a reminder: The topic of this post is about why it is necessary to patch the weakest players even weaker and patch the strongest players even stronger by lowering/boosting their gear values. NOT A SINGLE POSTER in this thread had an answer to that except of "L2P". L2P? Perhaps rather you should L2P without needing extra boosts over new players to bolster your egos. I guess "empathy" and "sportsmanship" are not words in your dictionaries...

Because between all the other tweaks, the battle buff going up to VR14 and the 50% damage mitigation the values you are talking about are negligible. That's why people are saying L2P. Those gear tweaks will have absolutely zero effect on whether you are going to win or lose a fight.

Xvorg

BalticBlues wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So the TL:DR is you want experience, skill and gear on a silver platter.

No. In e-sports, experience and skill have nothing to do with gear and CP.
Unfortunately TESO isn't sports, here you can buy victories with better gear and CP.

When CPs decide victories, sportsmanship is going down the drain.
If you do not believe me, listen to great players as Deltia.

L2P? If you would know how to play, you could play fair against new players without CPs. L2P.

Well, the game should find another way to reward their loyal users who have been playing around for more than one year. Any idea?

By the way, the pvp imho is OK now, yesterday I performed a lot better than last saturday prior to pach, maybe it is because of the changes... or it is because I changed my old mouse for a most reliable one. I'll never know

newtinmpls

zornyan wrote: »

I have 2 cats, and one ferret (used to have 2 but one recently passed so getting another) which requires.

I got hunting/shooting in some evenings to get rabbits to feed my ferrets
I spend 20 mins every day cleaning their cage out, preparing their food (gutting the rabbits) etc

I'm sorry to hear of your loss, and slightly envious that you utilize hunting to feed your critters. I think that mine (dogs and cats - including a feral cat - lets just say she is NOT a domestic animal) would probably do better on that sort of diet. Or as part of their diet.

On to actual game stuff:

zornyan wrote: »

Enlightenment = 10 CP per vet level, with the new system you'll get 2 vet levels per area, or roughly 1.8 mill exp. That's 18 CP right there. Or 4 if your not enlightened.

Hell that's 2 hours of gameplay...

18 CP in two hours of game play? I get ... maybe 1 CP in 3 hours of game play. I am not a grinder.

zornyan

Grinding is the single fastest way, always has been for any MMO. Most grinders have videos of them doing 1.5-2million exp per hour, without scrolls.

With enlightenment you're looking at 10cp per vet level.

You should be able to clear an area in vet level in 2-3 hours easily, make sure to note which quests to avoid (there's several I've seen in DC that make you run around for ages that give little exp) and choose the most important ones, with the highest exp, least amount of screwing around and also skill points.

Hell people (with the update) are getting 100k just from some craglorn quests.

It's all there, just need to sit down and find the quickest way.

ZOS themselves said a hardcore player can grind out 0-3600 CP in 60 days.

Thanks for the kind words, ferrets are my life (and my other halfs) They require lots of love and attention, but have truly amazing personalities, they are awesome companions in life.

I throughly enjoying hunting, it's a great past time with a couple friends. There's a spot near my workshop in a field that's filled with rabbits, we find a decent spot, grab a couple beers, setup our bipods and night vision, and chill.

Raw meat diet is the best diet for any dog/cat/ferret, infact the one that recently died did so because he preferred kibble to raw meat, which caused him stomach problems resulting in his death.

It's much better for any animals coat, skin, teeth, energy, stomach and general well being.

newtinmpls

zornyan wrote: »

Grinding is the single fastest way, always has been for any MMO.

Oh I don't doubt that it's fast.

I just don't care to play that way - to the point of I would absolutely not play if that was the only option. I would greatly prefer to play paper-and-pencil-and-dice RPG (go HarnMaster!!) but a chunk of our group moved out of state. By logging onto characters that can play together, and firing up skype, it's almost as fun.

My gaming style is all based on that - I talk back and argue with the NPCs (even if the "official lines" don't allow for that).

I'm also an alt-a-holic, (two subbed accounts) so despite the fact that it's coming up on ... what a year and a half - two years? I still only have 2 characters at vet (one at 3, one at 1).

zornyan wrote: »

Thanks for the kind words, ferrets are my life (and my other halfs) They require lots of love and attention, but have truly amazing personalities, they are awesome companions in life.

I throughly enjoying hunting, it's a great past time with a couple friends. There's a spot near my workshop in a field that's filled with rabbits, we find a decent spot, grab a couple beers, setup our bipods and night vision, and chill.

Raw meat diet is the best diet for any dog/cat/ferret, infact the one that recently died did so because he preferred kibble to raw meat, which caused him stomach problems resulting in his death.

It's much better for any animals coat, skin, teeth, energy, stomach and general well being.

All that being said, though they are primarily carnivores, you need to include some veggies .. according to all 3 of my dogs, crab crass is apparently a gourmet treat.

leepalmer95

zornyan wrote: »

Grinding is the single fastest way, always has been for any MMO. Most grinders have videos of them doing 1.5-2million exp per hour, without scrolls.

With enlightenment you're looking at 10cp per vet level.

You should be able to clear an area in vet level in 2-3 hours easily, make sure to note which quests to avoid (there's several I've seen in DC that make you run around for ages that give little exp) and choose the most important ones, with the highest exp, least amount of screwing around and also skill points.

Hell people (with the update) are getting 100k just from some craglorn quests.

It's all there, just need to sit down and find the quickest way.

ZOS themselves said a hardcore player can grind out 0-3600 CP in 60 days.

Thanks for the kind words, ferrets are my life (and my other halfs) They require lots of love and attention, but have truly amazing personalities, they are awesome companions in life.

I throughly enjoying hunting, it's a great past time with a couple friends. There's a spot near my workshop in a field that's filled with rabbits, we find a decent spot, grab a couple beers, setup our bipods and night vision, and chill.

Raw meat diet is the best diet for any dog/cat/ferret, infact the one that recently died did so because he preferred kibble to raw meat, which caused him stomach problems resulting in his death.

It's much better for any animals coat, skin, teeth, energy, stomach and general well being.

3600 in 60 days is such bs xD

Thats 60 cp a day which is impossible ^^

Also you won't have enlightenment unless you don't play for days, so never go off cp/hr with enlightenment.

zornyan

That's what zos said themselves.

I think the best way to do it would be.

Get 3-4 alts, get all to vr1 (especially with the huge xp buffs from cadwells quests now)

Use 1 for 1 day with enlightenment.

Switch to next on following day with enlightenment.

Then so on, by the time you've done the 3/4 one you'll have it ready on the first again.

Should grind out very quickly then.

I understand Lee, I suppose it's because I've been a big mmorpg player for the last 15+ years, that I'm used to grinding, I expect it, and I suppose I kinds enjoy it now as part of the experience. But it really is each to their own.

Also like I said, one ferret has a complete raw meat diet, one had a bit of meat but mostly kibble, the raw meat one is in perfect health etc, the other had several health problems before he died. Our vet that is an exotic animal specialist said never give them anything but fresh raw meat. The rescue center we got them from also on gives their ferrets raw neat

leepalmer95

zornyan wrote: »

That's what zos said themselves.

I think the best way to do it would be.

Get 3-4 alts, get all to vr1 (especially with the huge xp buffs from cadwells quests now)

Use 1 for 1 day with enlightenment.

Switch to next on following day with enlightenment.

Then so on, by the time you've done the 3/4 one you'll have it ready on the first again.

Should grind out very quickly then.

I understand Lee, I suppose it's because I've been a big mmorpg player for the last 15+ years, that I'm used to grinding, I expect it, and I suppose I kinds enjoy it now as part of the experience. But it really is each to their own.

Also like I said, one ferret has a complete raw meat diet, one had a bit of meat but mostly kibble, the raw meat one is in perfect health etc, the other had several health problems before he died. Our vet that is an exotic animal specialist said never give them anything but fresh raw meat. The rescue center we got them from also on gives their ferrets raw neat

You get 1 cp worth of enlightenment a day per account, it's account wide not character wide.

I never said anything about grinding... it's just impossible to get 3600 cp in 60 days, i'm a console players and now have a v14 Dk, V12 Sorc and a V1 nb, so i know all about grinding.

zornyan

Okay well take it like this. The Champion point system dropped in Jan. By console release in June the highest number received was 1650, so in under 6 months people had made over 1000, that's about 200 a month.

We now receive 50% more exp from very quests, 70% more from craglorn quests (50% + 20% blanket craglorn buff) and 100% more from dungeons.

So by those standards, it should be at least 20-40% quicker to earn exp towards CP right?

So in those 6 months people could have easily averaged 6-800cp, with the more hardcore hitting nearly 2000cp.

So even forgetting what zos said is possible. (hell they may have meant 60 days playtime)

It's easy enough to get 300, and after 300cp you get diminishing returns, I believe 0-300cp power gap is the same as 300-1700cp. So really, 300-400cp should be the target most people will aim for, that'll get you the 15-20% bonuses, after that you barely get anything back.

Then I think it's safe to say, most people can get 300 odd CP in a reasonable short amount of time. I've earnt 30 by vr5 by just taking things leisurely. I'm going to be getting 3 alts to VR16 in the next few weeks so that'll take care of the most of it.

I think the very fastest way would be group dungeon 2 mans with xp scrolls, with them people do 1-50 in a day, and vr1-14 in 2 days. That's what? 13million exp? Making about 10-15 CP a day.