Champion points in non-vet Overpowered

Paradox · July 2015

Why they don't just remove CP from non-vet is beyond me. It was the only balanced server for a while. The only one that didn't give twinks a massive benefit... Now we have CP grinders massacring entire groups of new players.

It's JUST FREAKING GREAT for the game, showing new players what Vet is like before they get there. At least as it is now, they get lulled into it, and will have other things to do when they realize that this game's end-game pvp is terrible.

bowmanz607 · July 2015

Paradox wrote: »

Why they don't just remove CP from non-vet is beyond me. It was the only balanced server for a while. The only one that didn't give twinks a massive benefit... Now we have CP grinders massacring entire groups of new players.

It's JUST FREAKING GREAT for the game, showing new players what Vet is like before they get there. At least as it is now, they get lulled into it, and will have other things to do when they realize that this game's end-game pvp is terrible.

I am curious, How long have you been in the game?

Paradox · July 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Paradox wrote: »

Why they don't just remove CP from non-vet is beyond me. It was the only balanced server for a while. The only one that didn't give twinks a massive benefit... Now we have CP grinders massacring entire groups of new players.

It's JUST FREAKING GREAT for the game, showing new players what Vet is like before they get there. At least as it is now, they get lulled into it, and will have other things to do when they realize that this game's end-game pvp is terrible.

I am curious, How long have you been in the game?

In blackwater, it's going on 7 months now.

bowmanz607 · July 2015

How long in vet?

LegionIsAll · July 2015

I've played in vet since rank 10 and have had hardly any issue this whole time . Just now v1 and I don't see many issues . Nothing to really *** about anyway. What is different in non vets that make this such a big deal?

LegionIsAll · July 2015

Only a few times have I just been steamrolled and it was by emperor former emeperor or a select few v14

bowmanz607 · July 2015

well there you go. I have noticed that a lot of players complain about vet pvp. However, when i look more deeply at this it is many players that simply try it a few times and are unsuccessful. Or low vet ranks that dont have the power. Yes I admit anything from v1-v9ish is going to be a disadvantage. This ofcourse will be fixed when they introduce battle leveling for vet ranks, so patience for that. However, v10 and higher can be very productive and have great fights in pvp. The thing with vet pvp is that it is the best of the best. There is no handicap like battle leveling for these players. It is players that are able to play their builds exactly as they envisioned them and have been in the game for some time. They will inherently be better just on skill alone. Moreover, the top pvp guilds run in vet. they are organized. however, there are also smaller organized groups that are extremely succeful and very successful solo players when they pick their fights well.

Dru1076 · July 2015

Nallenil wrote: »

People with 300 champion points or more are basically abusing those mechanics in non veteran. I know it has been said before in other domains but, in non veteran this is where it affects the most when people who are new to the game are facing dedicated level 40-50 players with 300-700 champion points who dodge roll forever, have op shields, do more damage.. (search "champion points" on forum to see the ongoing discussions)

Remove it from non veteran first at least before you consider other changes elsewhere :>

Thanks.

Nallenil (Fiery Thing on Non Vet).

Don't expect any response from Zos on this. For some reason, though you new guys cant even earn cp's yet, you are expected to fight those who have earned hundreds. All you will be told is man up and level up. And get used to it, because by the time you are in non vet there will be a big gap waiting for you there too. I hope you have time for grinding my friend, because this is required if you want to enjoy pvp.

I really hope Zos sort this player gap out one day, and I will keep checking to see if they do, but seeing so many ignored threads on the subject, I fear its a waste of time. This is an MMO, after all....not TES.

Lylith · August 2015

TequilaFire wrote: »

Another parrot thread.
You can't tell how many CP points a person has so how do you know?

i'll give you a hint.

you'll hit them, with your hardest hitting skills, for 500-600, maybe even a little over 1000 points on a good shot.

they will hit you in excess of 6000 points.

repeatedly.

how many c/p they have is irrelevant.

how many more c/p they have than a given player, however, matters a great deal.

josh.lackey_ESO · August 2015

Scale everyone's CP up to 350 while they are in Cyrodiil, that way they all have the same unfair advantage. xD

The real problem is that due to the way Blackwater scaling works, certain combinations of set bonuses, skills, and CP yields unexpected results. You end up with one guy who can take out a whole 24 man group. I'm not even sure I think the current Emperor should be able to do that. It's just cheap. It's not the incremental advantages of CP that really bothers me, it's the people exploiting mechanics to become nearly unkillable.

I also think if you're allowed to use CP in non-vet, you also ought to be able to earn them in non-vet. Otherwise you're just inviting veteran players to come troll.

Merlight · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

here is the thing. there will not be new players forever. there was a new influx of players which will start to die down. pretty soon there really wont be any new players, but old players starting new characters. this means everyone will have champion points and will benefit from them.

You're assuming everyone is willing to grind CP. Some of us like Blackwater Blade for what it is, not for what it will become when more and more try-hards crawl out of their caves and invade the campaign with their ridiculous (and ill-gained, for this matter) passives.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

Merlight wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

here is the thing. there will not be new players forever. there was a new influx of players which will start to die down. pretty soon there really wont be any new players, but old players starting new characters. this means everyone will have champion points and will benefit from them.

You're assuming everyone is willing to grind CP. Some of us like Blackwater Blade for what it is, not for what it will become when more and more try-hards crawl out of their caves and invade the campaign with their ridiculous (and ill-gained, for this matter) passives.

no i am assuming everyone will play the games progression system the way it was intended...to progress. You dont have to grind champion points to get them. you can quest, do dungeons, and pvp. I dont grind. I despise grinding. I will never grind. I play the game to have fun and earn points along the way.

Dru1076 · August 2015

Brian wheeler has said in another thread that cp free campaigns are coming. I have a feeling they might prove very popular.

Merlight · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

no i am assuming everyone will play the games progression system the way it was intended...to progress. You dont have to grind champion points to get them. you can quest, do dungeons, and pvp. I dont grind. I despise grinding. I will never grind. I play the game to have fun and earn points along the way.

The greatest virtue of Blackwater Blade was that it had a power cap. We don't want infinite progression in Blackwater Blade. Going out of the campaign we enjoy to do quests (again), dungeons (again and again and again), and vet PvP (meh) in order to gain advantage in Blackwater Blade... how can you not see how silly that is?

mcurley · August 2015

Agreed. BwB should be left CP free. It's extremely obvious who has a ton of CP and who does not... just the damage you do to them alone will tell you. When your main attack suddenly does half or less of its usual damage something is up. Also... people wearing Nirn in BwB... just stop... that's pathetic.

MrGigglypants · August 2015

The whining is real geeze . for starters non vet is like tutorial island no one is really meant to stay there so level up and grow a pair and come join the big boys in vet I'd say that in 2-3 months the majority of players will have cp so why bother waisting their time when in reality is probably more of a skill issue than a cp issue. Last I checked you can't inspect someone's cp as their pummeling you so stop whining to whine play the game and let the devs work on something that matters.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

mcurley wrote: »

Agreed. BwB should be left CP free. It's extremely obvious who has a ton of CP and who does not... just the damage you do to them alone will tell you. When your main attack suddenly does half or less of its usual damage something is up. Also... people wearing Nirn in BwB... just stop... that's pathetic.

ok champion point debate I understand. But really, complaining about people wearing nirn. so should we now make a nirn free campaign?

Mauz · August 2015

Lylith wrote: »

you'll hit them, with your hardest hitting skills, for 500-600, maybe even a little over 1000 points on a good shot.

they will hit you in excess of 6000 points.

That's complete rubbish, sorry.

Even without CPs you can hit for 6k and if you just can't hit someone for more than 600 it's most likely a DK using his ultimate so that hits can't do more than 3% of his max health.

I show you how it works: you play a stamina nb and want to hit really hard

skill medium armor until you get the 12% weapon dmg passive
skill 2h until you get dmg bonus passives and rally
level assassin tree to get grimm focus and the crit passives
craft a 2h club or sword with penetration trait and improve it at least to blue
craft 5/5 of hundings rage set
wear 7/7 armor with divine trait and improve at least to blue, get the shadow mundus
take a race with plus stamina bonus
slot ambush and death strike, rally and grim focus
use green stamina buff food

Buff yourself with rally and grim focus. Start with ambush and death strike + light attack from stealth. Then you've 6 secs to spam light attacks canceled by surprise attacks with dmg bonus. This does insane dmg even in non vet. Surprise attack will crit for 6k, death strike for 8k. This can be achieved at around lvl 30-35 i'd say.

Yes, someone with 600 CP could do 8k instead of 6k for surprise attack and 10-11k for death strike therefore I personally support the CP free version of non vet campaign. But you've to understand the game mechanics as well because if someone was able to gain 600 CP at this point in time he definitly knows how to max out his dmg as well.

mcurley · August 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

mcurley wrote: »

Agreed. BwB should be left CP free. It's extremely obvious who has a ton of CP and who does not... just the damage you do to them alone will tell you. When your main attack suddenly does half or less of its usual damage something is up. Also... people wearing Nirn in BwB... just stop... that's pathetic.

ok champion point debate I understand. But really, complaining about people wearing nirn. so should we now make a nirn free campaign?

Lol no, that comment was more me just insulting the players who use it in BwB (even my own faction/guild members who use it). I mean the campaign is mostly filled with absolutely terrible players so using nirn to twink your hero that much is pretty pathetic.

Granted lots of players have plenty of gold and extra materials so you may say why not....to that I have no response other than to me it is hilarious how far people go to get an advantage over mostly bad players.

Regardless... nirn will be fixed at the end of the month so it's a silly argument to have.

bowmanz607 · August 2015

mcurley wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

mcurley wrote: »

Agreed. BwB should be left CP free. It's extremely obvious who has a ton of CP and who does not... just the damage you do to them alone will tell you. When your main attack suddenly does half or less of its usual damage something is up. Also... people wearing Nirn in BwB... just stop... that's pathetic.

ok champion point debate I understand. But really, complaining about people wearing nirn. so should we now make a nirn free campaign?

Lol no, that comment was more me just insulting the players who use it in BwB (even my own faction/guild members who use it). I mean the campaign is mostly filled with absolutely terrible players so using nirn to twink your hero that much is pretty pathetic.

Granted lots of players have plenty of gold and extra materials so you may say why not....to that I have no response other than to me it is hilarious how far people go to get an advantage over mostly bad players.

Regardless... nirn will be fixed at the end of the month so it's a silly argument to have.

I see got you. Ya I cant wait for nirn to be fixed.

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO · August 2015

TequilaFire wrote: »

Another parrot thread.
You can't tell how many CP points a person has so how do you know?

Ways you know:

1. Insert class ( ) is being attacked by 20 people and he/she slowly walks away while
being pummeled eventually dying after 1000 hits by everyone.

2. Insert class ( ) and level here ( ) usually a 10-14 who suspiciously takes a good
beating from any non CP higher player and is able to defeat him/her.

Also many of these players have learned and used the very good exploits of this game
like the mace exploit and mundus exploit and there are others...but the mace armor pen
is just ridiculous

mwd419_ESO · August 2015

CP are overpowered in ANY PvP campaign. Vet or non-vet, doesn't matter. The amount of power they provide is ludicrous, and a new player will simply not be able to play competitively.

Mauz · August 2015

TequilaFire wrote: »

You can't tell how many CP points a person has so how do you know?

You cant tell how many cps someone has but if his toon has 27110 hp he definitly has 0 and most likely no idea what he is doing. Sometimes they start to block after they are below 20%