Champion points in non-vet Overpowered

Nallenil

People with 300 champion points or more are basically abusing those mechanics in non veteran. I know it has been said before in other domains but, in non veteran this is where it affects the most when people who are new to the game are facing dedicated level 40-50 players with 300-700 champion points who dodge roll forever, have op shields, do more damage.. (search "champion points" on forum to see the ongoing discussions)

Remove it from non veteran first at least before you consider other changes elsewhere :>

Thanks.

Nallenil (Fiery Thing on Non Vet).

VincentBlanquin

agree completely, thanks you for this thread. really wondering if someone try to defend this "progression"

nimander99

In a couple months you will be just as powerful, just keep playing the game... and remember, every time you go to the forums to post a gripe about CP's is one more CP you could have been earning in game

TequilaFire

Another parrot thread.
You can't tell how many CP points a person has so how do you know?

Nallenil

Have a look at the list of champion passive bonuses, I talk about the rank 10, 30, 75, 120 passives. You can see the complete list of them from websites such as esoacademy. Some of them are very visible ingame and others not so much. I do not gain CP points while playing non vet and while the game advertises "play as you want". Well I decided to play non vet only for the certain fairness in the fights. The CP just obliterates that.

Couple of example of passives from higher ranks (they don't have to be so high even).
Increases weapon critical strike chance by 12%
15% chance to return damage to an attacker when you block a melee attack (5sec cooldown)
Set enemies off balance when you successfully roll dodge to avoid their attack (that one is pretty visible)
After you block 3 spells, next one is a guaranteed critical hit
Reduces magicka cost of next spell by 80% after drinking a potion
20% chance to restore 1300 magicka in aoe after a kill
33% chance to reduce enemy movement speed when you bash
when blocking, gain a damage shield for 750 (scales with level) every 10 seconds (also very visible)
restore 500 health (scales with level) when you perform a physical critical hit
reduces stamina cost of abilities by 80% for 8 seconds after breaking free of a stun, knockdown, fear, disorient or stagger.

These are just a few examples. The list continues. I call using those pretty OP on non veteran, and I'm only talking about non vet here.

uso245

700 is a bit of a stretch there. Most players I know with high CP ranks are around 230-300.

Personofsecrets

nimander99 wrote: »

In a couple months you will be just as powerful, just keep playing the game... and remember, every time you go to the forums to post a gripe about CP's is one more CP you could have been earning in game

and everyone will stop playing so op can catch up.

Tonnopesce

I beilve that the non vet campaign is where the ch rank is more useless since evryone have more or less the same resources and the same spell damage + weapon damage so i cant see your point op since the only stat that can change the most is the effectivness in damage output of some abilities and spell + weapon crit, doge roll is not influenced so much since evryone have the same stamina (someone with ch points spent in the " reduce the cost of roll doge" can doge a little more than someone without CP ) and since most of the damage output depends from the magika or stamina poll even the damage is not so much more.

And if you see most of the passives that you have put in your post cannot be taked togheder with just 300 CP and imho the people who have +300 cp are NOT inside the non vet campaign, i've re rolled 2 months ago a nightblade and joined the non vet campaign, i was at 125 CP and now i'm at 130 (and from the list i have only 3 30 CP abilities) while my guildmates are at 230 or more.

If you have 700 CP, trust me you will spend all your time grinding all day and you dont have the time to join the Noob campaign wasting time without CP gain.

Nallenil

You can't even add spell damage with gear on Non Veteran campagn... but you can get ueber abilities with champion points. I'm at 90 CP and that already allows me to reduce my blocking stamina cost further more than most of the new players while also having more spell crit and spell penetration. Can I reset my points and play without any CP? Sure. The level of play would be more newbie friendly and fair on non vet if the champion system was removed from there though and that is the only point I am really trying to make. Want to grind as many CP as you want and be super duper strong? Sure, go play in Vet campagn.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Maybe the solution is to not allow anyone with a vet rank character into non vet campaigns regardless of which character he is playing. I mean it is called NON VET for a reason.

Nallenil

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe the solution is to not allow anyone with a vet rank character into non vet campaigns regardless of which character he is playing. I mean it is called NON VET for a reason.

I play on Non vet mostly because I grew tired of the "2 hit and you're dead" pvp style on vet campagns. Most friends I have on non vet play there for the same reason. I would simply delete my vet char if that was the case (with no regret).

drschplatt

uso245 wrote: »

700 is a bit of a stretch there. Most players I know with high CP ranks are around 230-300.

700 is not beyond the reach. 230 - 300 is slightly above average but not unusual at all. You don't start getting into unusual amounts until the 500 range.

Tonnopesce

Nallenil wrote: »

You can't even add spell damage with gear on Non Veteran campagn... but you can get ueber abilities with champion points. I'm at 90 CP and that already allows me to reduce my blocking stamina cost further more than most of the new players while also having more spell crit and spell penetration. Can I reset my points and play without any CP? Sure. The level of play would be more newbie friendly and fair on non vet if the champion system was removed from there though and that is the only point I am really trying to make. Want to grind as many CP as you want and be super duper strong? Sure, go play in Vet campagn.

Rememer that if you have already 90 CP the only reason is that you already have a vet carachter and you already know the game mecanics and you even know way better how to play than a noob ( when i use hig level skills of the nightblade line the noobs got confused and they dont know how to react, most of them have a TES playstile , so they continue doing light + heavy attacs forgotting that they have even abilities), so if you win is not just for the CP.

To carry a low skilled player to the overpovered playstile you need 5-600 CP at least and as i told you before for have 5-600 Cp you need to have you home in a grinding spot 24/7

Nallenil

Any amount of CP is a linear unfair advantage over anyone new on the non veteran campagn, which till now has been a campagn where new and old players could compete in a certain fairness of level. Why should players have "Veteran earned points" in a Non Veteran campagn?

BuggeX

Aggree Non Vet should be a camp without Cps,

A5ko

It's not viable for them to just ditch CP now.

I'm a new player and quite enjoy having CP as I PvE. As I don't PvP at all this doesn't annoy me, but I can totally sympathise with new PvP players who have a horrible struggle on their hands.

The only suggestion I could make is removing CP from PvP.

That way it only comes into play during PvE.

Sausage

This is MMORPG, and progression is big part of it. They have said they work on catch-up mechanics but it may take a while. They might buff silver/gold zones, so dont do those yet.

nooneonboard

I thought CP arent applied on non vet char (Lv 1-50) but VR1-14?

Heromofo

Not sure what the fuss is about they are insanely easy to build up and things should never be handed to us and the idea of the more you play the more you have is a time old tradition of mmos.

I remember people complaining to blizzad about it requires too much time and effort to get the end game gear (my own idea of it lol).

Also i am happy they affect alts it makes the regrind easier of sliver and gold.
For the pvp complainers why not learn to group up and attack as a group as no one is god like........ Or is it their skill?.

It just sounds like "Its sooo unfair that the people that play the game more than me are sooooo strong", "please nerf them because if i dont have the time to grind champion points then everyone should be on my level".

To Quote Hircine
"Only the strong will survive as the weak perish beneath them"

MCMancub

I don't think CP is an issue at the vet level, but they shouldn't be activated for alts during non-vet PvP. It creates an unfair advantage that isn't seen at the vet level: new players can't gain CP to "catch up" to the alts who already have it.

EDIT: The whole point of allowing CP to be used on alts was so they leveled faster, not so they could wreck other players in the non-vet PvP campaign.

nastuug

TequilaFire wrote: »

Another parrot thread.
You can't tell how many CP points a person has so how do you know?

"But... but... he rolled me something fierce. Means dey be pushin' 500CP!"

Cernow

CP *are* applied to characters on non-vet campaigns and it *does* make a difference.

At lower levels of CP, the benefits are relatively small, but still noticeable if you put the points into the right passives.

But at higher levels of CP, once you unlock the 30-pointers and beyond things get rather crazy.

Part of the problem seems to be the insane regen that it is possible to gain, but also the crit and damage-specific boosts. So you'll run into players who seem able to dodge roll forever, or block forever, bolt escape across half the map, spam certain abilities endlessly etc. And others who have been able to spike a certain damage type.

It creates superhero characters who can survive solo against huge odds. Whilst individual skill does play a role, as does gear (certain set bonuses that still work in non-vet), the majority of this imbalance comes from CP.

The solution is not to ban anyone with a Veteran character from playing non-vet. This will kill the campaign, the majority of players have at least one VR character now (on PC at least).

A better solution is to cap CP in non-vet campaigns. Possible caps could be 30 points (stop at the 10-point bonuses) or 87 points (so it stops just short of the 30-point bonuses). Points spent above these caps will still work in PVE but not inside Cyrodiil.

Personally I think stopping just short of the 30-point bonuses is good. This allows players who put in the effort to gain a small advantage, but prevents some of the bigger excesses of the CP system.

Tonnopesce

Cernow wrote: »

CP *are* applied to characters on non-vet campaigns and it *does* make a difference.

At lower levels of CP, the benefits are relatively small, but still noticeable if you put the points into the right passives.

But at higher levels of CP, once you unlock the 30-pointers and beyond things get rather crazy.

Part of the problem seems to be the insane regen that it is possible to gain, but also the crit and damage-specific boosts. So you'll run into players who seem able to dodge roll forever, or block forever, bolt escape across half the map, spam certain abilities endlessly etc. And others who have been able to spike a certain damage type.

It creates superhero characters who can survive solo against huge odds. Whilst individual skill does play a role, as does gear (certain set bonuses that still work in non-vet), the majority of this imbalance comes from CP.

The solution is not to ban anyone with a Veteran character from playing non-vet. This will kill the campaign, the majority of players have at least one VR character now (on PC at least).

A better solution is to cap CP in non-vet campaigns. Possible caps could be 30 points (stop at the 10-point bonuses) or 87 points (so it stops just short of the 30-point bonuses). Points spent above these caps will still work in PVE but not inside Cyrodiil.

Personally I think stopping just short of the 30-point bonuses is good. This allows players who put in the effort to gain a small advantage, but prevents some of the bigger excesses of the CP system.

Trust me huge difference is made by gear and skill combination.
If i go around with a non vet with full blue gear (purple or gold is a waste of golds) crafted in order to obtain the best from a 5+4 or 5+3 or 4+4 combination with all the traits i want , maybe even a hig skill gear (6 or more traits gear) + a nirncrux crafted weapon because fxxk noobs and rare jewellery, with all the best skills from a class, CP does not matter so much

david.haypreub18_ESO

Nallenil wrote: »

Any amount of CP is a linear unfair advantage over anyone new on the non veteran campagn, which till now has been a campagn where new and old players could compete in a certain fairness of level. Why should players have "Veteran earned points" in a Non Veteran campagn?

I agree, and the problem will only get worse as the real grinders pull further and further ahead of people just starting the game.

The CP system is way worse than the VR system ever was. I would actually prefer that we went back to the old VR system rather than keep a CP system that is just plain unfair to new players.

Tors

Just dont count CP in the non-vet campain.

The stats you dont see are the damamge mitigation ones, which have a profound affect.

c0rp

No one has close to 700 CP. CP is not even the problem. The problem was ZoS allowing PC folk to transfer those toons over at LAUNCH instead of a few months down the road.

halfbadger

c0rp wrote: »

No one has close to 700 CP. CP is not even the problem. The problem was ZoS allowing PC folk to transfer those toons over at LAUNCH instead of a few months down the road.

Plenty of people have over 700 CPs.
People with high CPs are extremely powerful in the non-vet campaigns on the PC.

Durham

Nallenil wrote: »

People with 300 champion points or more are basically abusing those mechanics in non veteran. I know it has been said before in other domains but, in non veteran this is where it affects the most when people who are new to the game are facing dedicated level 40-50 players with 300-700 champion points who dodge roll forever, have op shields, do more damage.. (search "champion points" on forum to see the ongoing discussions)

Remove it from non veteran first at least before you consider other changes elsewhere :>

Thanks.

Nallenil (Fiery Thing on Non Vet).

Very few people are over 400 less then 1%
Most by far are still in the 0-250 range...
Most people I game that are semi casual that have been playing a year are around 175-225

Durham

halfbadger wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

No one has close to 700 CP. CP is not even the problem. The problem was ZoS allowing PC folk to transfer those toons over at LAUNCH instead of a few months down the road.

Plenty of people have over 700 CPs.
People with high CPs are extremely powerful in the non-vet campaigns on the PC.

Lol no they don't .... Maybe 400 no where close to 700...

nastuug

Durham wrote: »

halfbadger wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

No one has close to 700 CP. CP is not even the problem. The problem was ZoS allowing PC folk to transfer those toons over at LAUNCH instead of a few months down the road.

Plenty of people have over 700 CPs.
People with high CPs are extremely powerful in the non-vet campaigns on the PC.

Lol no they don't .... Maybe 400 no where close to 700...

Although the number will quickly rise due to the release of XP pots/scrolls.

halfbadger

Durham wrote: »

halfbadger wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

No one has close to 700 CP. CP is not even the problem. The problem was ZoS allowing PC folk to transfer those toons over at LAUNCH instead of a few months down the road.

Plenty of people have over 700 CPs.
People with high CPs are extremely powerful in the non-vet campaigns on the PC.

Lol no they don't .... Maybe 400 no where close to 700...

If we are going to make up numbers then some people actually have over 5500 CPs right now