@Zeni - Please reconsider the cumulative 50% cost increase to BE

Waylander · July 2015

I assume that you will get a 50% cost penalty if you recast BE within 4 seconds of initial cast, which will be a 100% cost if casting bolt escape again within 4 seconds of the second bolt escape.

I guess the developers should next address the name of the unmorphed ability from bolt escape to something more appropriate.

BrassRazoo · July 2015

Increase bolt cost, decrease shield strength, I guess they wont be happy until Sorcerers are left using stick to chuck at the enemy.
Not to mention to be any good we also have to wear at least 5 pieces of light armour and place all points in Magic, so no resistance, no health, no stamina.
Looks like it's a two hit death for us coming soon. It already was anyway with a decent heavy hitter from stealth.

Zsymon · July 2015

Shields are not being decreased BrassRazoo, if shields are lowered by 30% and total damage is lowered by 30% as well, then Sorc shields are not nerfed but remain exactly the same strength as before.

The next patch does nothing to nerf anyone's shields. Sorc shield stacking will be just as overpowered as it was before.

leepalmer95 · July 2015

BrassRazoo wrote: »

Increase bolt cost, decrease shield strength, I guess they wont be happy until Sorcerers are left using stick to chuck at the enemy.
Not to mention to be any good we also have to wear at least 5 pieces of light armour and place all points in Magic, so no resistance, no health, no stamina.
Looks like it's a two hit death for us coming soon. It already was anyway with a decent heavy hitter from stealth.

It's a 2 hit on any class with a decent heavy hitter from stealth.

You shields aren't being nerfed, dmg reduction with your shield reduce means they won't do much more dmg to your shield than they would now.

Though next patch stamina builds are going to be pointless.

Alcast · July 2015

k2blader wrote: »

Hi Zeni devs / designers / lurkers,

I can only guess the intent behind the announced cumulative 50% cost increase to BE is to prevent sorcs from "bolting away endlessly" in Cyrodiil.

However, there are many sorcs who don't use BE for that reason; rather we use it for strategic and positioning purposes-- both offensive and defensive-- when engaging in battle. I believe the morphs of BE are specifically designed for those purposes in order to allow light-armored sorcs to be an active part of the fray with some means to challenge and/or survive enemy damage and CC.

If you dont spam it, like you are saying up there, then you wont have an issue with this change....

Makkir · July 2015

Better add in some physical mitigation then because in the sorc's current state, we are not designed well to stand toe to toe with melee classes.

Also, the constant "in combat" bug that has been around forever and keeps me from mounting...well come 1.7 I won't be able to bolt from keep to keep either.

Eejit1331 · July 2015

Domander wrote: »

How many times in a row do you need to bolt escape to "strategically position"

How many times in a row does cloak need to be used, how many times in a row does reflect need to be used and how many time in a row does radiant destruction need to be used. No power needs to be spammed or its op, right... Nerf all or leave BE alone. Only reason they are nerfing it is because that is the only class that the all might NB is not two shotting. The devs are killing their own game by listening to a bunch of OP nightblades pretending to be underpowered. What a trick!

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · July 2015

The amount of sorc tears for this change will trigger flood warnings in part of cyro. If you didn't constantly run and actually fought a decent fight people wouldn't have so much of a problem with be. Same for perma dodge and block. Watch any sorc video and you will find the same boring sequence of events... bolt away until people are so bored of fighting you they would rather die. Then claim you are pro whilst shielding up to 25k with 35k+ nirn. Much pro gg sorcs.

Tankqull · July 2015

they need to aply on all those increase changes a check for in and out of fight, if you are out of fight the stacking mechanic must not be aplied.

ToRelax · July 2015

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

The amount of sorc tears for this change will trigger flood warnings in part of cyro. If you didn't constantly run and actually fought a decent fight people wouldn't have so much of a problem with be. Same for perma dodge and block. Watch any sorc video and you will find the same boring sequence of events... bolt away until people are so bored of fighting you they would rather die. Then claim you are pro whilst shielding up to 25k with 35k+ nirn. Much pro gg sorcs.

People have a problem with whatever they see the player doing who does not die - be it tanking them forever, killing them or running away.

Cogo · July 2015

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

BoL should get the nerf, not streak. Its the BOL sorcs who run away forever. The streak sorcs are killable because they are offensive. Your also messing up streak which we use to kill trains, dodge roll is another tool to kill trains.

I agree with mr blue on this one.

Streak is not a problem. Players who complains they can't follow, is. The streak ability is doing just what it should..... (I am a DK). You can't catch a player? That's the point. Working at intended.

What's next? Sorcerers complain they can't get away from charge and ZoS nerf all gap closers to have a cooldown?

I'll give you a tip about Streak. Stuns/root/snare works and drains stamina. There are many abilities that anyone can use to do them.

The roll dodge and block nerf is stupid.
Just because some complainers can't figure out how buffs works and want the game changed instead of trying to win on their own, shouldn't nerf block and roll dodge.

Both block and roll dodge works well and everyone can use them.....if you are good enough.

I do wonder how many players who are fine with block/roll. Wouldn't surprise me if most where.....
I don't like this path towards narrowing skills to make "push-to-win" buttons.

RinaldoGandolphi · July 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

People have a problem with whatever they see the player doing who does not die - be it tanking them forever, killing them or running away.

There is so much truth in this statement.

Rakshat · July 2015

BE is working as intended.
Dodge roll is working as intended.
Block is working as intended.

If you can't figure out how to counter them and/or can't grasp the idea that you're supposed to use different tactics against different classes/builds, then the problem lies with YOU, not the mentioned abilities.

rokrdt05 · July 2015

This will be an almost unusable skill in PvP. Streak was a great CC, that can no longer be spammed in the next update.

For example if you are fighting let's say a 1v2 battle and both of your enemies are not near each other. You can only CC 1 of them and no longer have the effective ability to CC the other or move a distance away to range fight. Magicka sorcs as they are played now, are RANGED fighters. They do not do well in close quarters combat with stam builds. Hell, if you are fighting an archer who can snipe from 38m away... how the hell are you supposed to close the gap now? They will just cloak and run and try again.tt

Streak should be left as it is.

TheElementalPlatypus · July 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

How many times do you 'strategically position' yourself in 4 seconds? , for sorc's that actually use the skill properly and not just spam it or teleport half of cyrodiil with it, the change is fine.

Theres more QQ BE threads than there is dodging or Blocking threads, stamina builds are being nerfed with both there survivability xD

Problem number 1. You cant explain "using a skill properly". Its a skill, if its being used, its being used properly. Was cloak intended to be spammed? No but next patch with half of my friends list and a quarter of all my guilds already rerolling NB (if they havent already) cloak will only be the ruler of cyrodiil, as anyone and almost everyone has predicted, NB's will be the best (were already) but this time have less competition.

Problem number 2. You dont play a sorc, and if you did, you might be able to use your brain and realize WHY we are forced to spam it, sometimes not even to runaway. If 90% of cyrodiil wasnt "24 man raids" (yes I'm looking at you all you people who say "we dont zerg" yes I've played in the 24 man environment all you have to do is spam a few buttons and stay on crown = profit, for people with a larger brain capacity and less enjoyment of being a mindless zombie, we dont enjoy that), then maybe we wouldnt have everyone rerolling 2 classes (and next patch) NB because it is the only that can escape that. For you zegers any class is fine, for the rest of us we are more pigeon holed into one viable option.

i play a dk, unfortunately dk's don't have convenient spamable 'runaway' skills such as cloak or bolt, i don't see why using it once every few seconds is really a problem, combine it with some cc/stuns/knockdowns and you won't need to escape as much.

Do you understand english? I said in english.... have everyone rerolling 2 classes ahem POINTING OUT that DK's AND TEMPLARS are far down the list compared to sorcs and NB. You said it yourself YOU dont see why. Why are you here commenting on a thread saying "Oh well its not a problem for me I'm a DK if this thread is clearly about sorcerers and how it affects them GREATLY. Also if you understood or READ anything I said a competent player would FIND workarounds, but nonetheless we shouldnt be FORCED to workaround in the first place.

k2blader · July 2015

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

david31741 wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

I can only guess the intent behind the announced cumulative 50% cost increase to BE is to prevent sorcs from "bolting away endlessly" in Cyrodiil.

However, there are many sorcs who don't use BE for that reason; rather we use it for strategic and positioning purposes-- both offensive and defensive-- when engaging in battle.

LOL

Care to expand? In skirmishes I typically use BoL as a defensive measure against magicka builds or to move away from a melee build who will smash me if I don't.

Or is all you can say "lol" because you have nothing reasoned or reasonable to contribute?

k2blader clearly understands what he is saying and has extremely good reasoning for why this nerf is atrocious, not thought out, and all around hurtful to sorcs as a class. Sorc has one playstyle, one main set of skills for a build. We cant go stamina (We can but it SUCKS and will be impossible next patch). There is very little variety. What defines a sorc? I would say cfrags, curse, hardened ward, and bolt, all stand out.

Any class can catch up if they BUILD for mobility, all you NB's say "Equip radiant magelight not to get oneshot" so for us equip a skill to catch up! It takes a good 6-8 bolts in a hectic situation to get space, have a moment, and effectively target your opponents. Its extremely easy to spam gap closers and if you cant do that to a sorc you should l2p before you qq.

NB's are going to be 90% of the game next patch because of cloak, cloak is what bolt is, an escape, but next patch it will AVOID ALL DAMAGE (as it already does) but I mean IT REALLY WILL, because it will be "fixed" and extremely easy to sit in. We have to use AoE to pull them out? Sorc's only practical AoE is streak, as it is NOW I have to use streak 5-6 times to keep pulling a cloak spamming NB out of cloak.

and yes, it will be doom and gloom.

Also to whatever idiot on ZOS thought bolt was the problem, it wasnt, if you played your game it was our 30k shields we could infinitely stack due to your removal of softcaps.

Removal of softcaps removed skill, no resource management, nothing anymore, spam everything without thinking. But when something has a penalty, THAT STACKS, its ridiculous. Hey ZOS newsflash, we couldnt spam bolt as much if you didnt remove softcaps.

k bye

Thanks TEP!

The stacking (cumulative) nerf is going overboard, particularly for folks who don't have the best gear and amount of skill points/CPs.

BE is a core sorc skill. If other classes' core skills were getting nerf after nerf to the point where one of their defining skills was barely worth it to slot, would they laugh and shrug? Don't think so.

k2blader · July 2015

leepalmer95 wrote: »

How many times do you 'strategically position' yourself in 4 seconds? , for sorc's that actually use the skill properly and not just spam it or teleport half of cyrodiil with it, the change is fine.

Theres more QQ BE threads than there is dodging or Blocking threads, stamina builds are being nerfed with both there survivability xD

Any decent melee will kill a light armor wearer in 4 seconds. Or are you one of those who can't?

k2blader · July 2015

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Anyone know if the cumulative effect wears off 4 seconds after your first bolt, or after the last bolt you use?

Anyway, I've been paying more attention to how I use the ability with 1.7 in mind and the reality is (for me at least) when using it offensively anymore than 2 streaks in a row is blatantly wasteful.. it's either streak to cc then again to re-position/gap close, or streak to evade then again to cc/re-position.

I think many sorcs (me especially) have become a bit lazy since the last major update, basking themselves in nirn and bolting away when things get hot rather than working on more resilient and adaptive builds and play styles. With the changes to dodge and block coming in to effect at the same time as the changes to BE I think it's positive on the whole.

I use BoL mainly to move away from melee who get the jump on me. Decent melee hit damnably hard. Also I don't use nirn so I certainly have not become lazy. :-P

Also, why should casting BE cost double just because you cast it twice within 4 seconds? It's perfectly reasonable to use it twice, or even 3 times (if you can get that off with lag) within 4 seconds.

Why is the skill getting the subjectivity treatment: "I think there's no reason to use it 2, or 3, times in 4 seconds, so there's no problem." That might be fine for your setup, but not for others'. And as for these people playing other class mains and commenting the nerf is perfectly fine, they just continue to show they have no idea what they're talking about.

Oh, and I forget who said it, but if only BOL got the nerf, guess what? You'd see no sorcs using BoL anymore-- proof that the nerf was indeed too much. It's not just BoL sorcs "bolting the entire length of Cyrodiil" or whatever other silly metaphor people come up with.

Radburn · July 2015

k2blader wrote: »

Hi Zeni devs / designers / lurkers,

I can only guess the intent behind the announced cumulative 50% cost increase to BE is to prevent sorcs from "bolting away endlessly" in Cyrodiil.

However, there are many sorcs who don't use BE for that reason; rather we use it for strategic and positioning purposes-- both offensive and defensive-- when engaging in battle.

I read this and then I imagined all the Sorcs that use Bolt escape only for re-positioning during a fight. When losing rather then Bolt escape away they admit defeat and die honorably to their better opponent.

Yeah. Right.

Every Sorc I have fought fights tooth and nail and if they don't get a kill they BE away to safety, re-assess the situation and then go back in for another attack/kill. This needs to be fixed, you cannot allow any one class to have the ability to control a fight in this way.

For those who think every class should have the means to do this, just think what that will do for Cyrodiil PvP.

ToRelax · July 2015

Radburn wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hi Zeni devs / designers / lurkers,

I can only guess the intent behind the announced cumulative 50% cost increase to BE is to prevent sorcs from "bolting away endlessly" in Cyrodiil.

However, there are many sorcs who don't use BE for that reason; rather we use it for strategic and positioning purposes-- both offensive and defensive-- when engaging in battle.

I read this and then I imagined all the Sorcs that use Bolt escape only for re-positioning during a fight. When losing rather then Bolt escape away they admit defeat and die honorably to their better opponent.

Yeah. Right.

Every Sorc I have fought fights tooth and nail and if they don't get a kill they BE away to safety, re-assess the situation and then go back in for another attack/kill. This needs to be fixed, you cannot allow any one class to have the ability to control a fight in this way.

For those who think every class should have the means to do this, just think what that will do for Cyrodiil PvP.

I am trying to imagine how it would be would that not be the case, because it already is.
Speedbuffs, Bow dodge rolls and Mistform were available to everyone last time I checked.

rendolpheb16_ESO · July 2015

ZoS reconsider it to 66%

Thank you.