Official Discussion Thread for "Update 6 Guide: The Champion System"

Faugaun · January 2015

Sunver wrote: »

Im still confused about this: points are account-wide and are earned by VR characters. Lets say I have 100 of them. I put all 100 in one character and I have none left right? I cant put 100 points again in another?

@Sunver‌ no, if you have 100 points then each character can use 100 points. So say you have 100 points, then you make a new character both your VR and your new character will have access to 100 points.

FoxyKitten · January 2015

I was hoping that you guys would have spent time to update / revamp the upper Craglorn experience: i.e. create a way that we could solo through places there and gain the same drops, experience, etc. You should realize that many of us don't care to team up. We are rangers and explorers and chose to do things on our own but the way you have upper Craglorn set up literally forces us to find a group which we DO NOT care to do, but if we don't we are left out of some important activities and rewards. Or if you just insist on forcing us to do what we don't want to do, at least you could find some creative way that would allow us to get into groups without begging for help in the chat. Like a staging area next to an activity where people with the same intent could gather for a specific delve or activity. As it is now, people stand around the front of dungeons either trying to team up or waiting on their team to show and we end up bothering them to see if they want to group up. This really is a problem for many of us and I don't see why you have not addressed it as such.

tobingjb16_ESO · January 2015

I do not mean to be negative... but doesnt this just seem to be the WOW talent tree system in an ESO skin? Frick i hated it... you ended up being all the same cookie cutter points spent and then just a few points to spare. Gosh I cant remember..... shaman healer tree... had to spend the point in this of a level 2 and thisi in level 3- level 4 didnt matter so spend it where you like but if you didnt have blah in level 5 you got kicked out of groups.
- I hope it is more flexible. Carrnage.

Naivefanboi · January 2015

Phaedrus wrote: »

I think once again ZOS is overlooking something glaring for current max level characters. We have already done everything there is to do so now we either have to do it all over again under a new character or be at a huge disadvantage.

The same was true when they released new Undaunted passives. If your character had done all the dungeon achievements you were basically SOL and weren't able to level Undaunted as quickly as someone who had done 0 dungeons.

This will hold true of the new Champion System points. If I have completed all quests, discovered all POI's, destroyed all Dolmens, ran all dungeons/trials and am already at Alliance Rank 37 then how am I supposed to gain XP at the same rate as someone who has not?

i agree 1100% with your concern. sadly i think our concern is entirely the point of ZOS and the champion system. eventually no one will have to see someone with 10-14 more vr levels then them. boo hoos

,,,, caus thats a game breaker right?
so theyre trying to prevent same thing happening with champ system. the way i look at it. people that have alerady done all the quests pvp ect like you used as example, probably play alot more then the lower level people and returning players. wel just so happens with the new system people who played alot will have to play even more to try and keep up, or on pace. where as the returning and new players will be on fast track to even ground.
starting to see a pattern yet?

id enjoy the champ system if the game was made that way from begining. as it suonds i dont really plan on even useing the points. not intrested plain and simple. if that prevents me from raiding and pvping oh well time to move on
will have to wait and see tho.

Sunver · January 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

Sunver wrote: »

Im still confused about this: points are account-wide and are earned by VR characters. Lets say I have 100 of them. I put all 100 in one character and I have none left right? I cant put 100 points again in another?

@Sunver‌ no, if you have 100 points then each character can use 100 points. So say you have 100 points, then you make a new character both your VR and your new character will have access to 100 points.

@Faugaun‌ Thank you very much

Faugaun · January 2015

Sunver wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

Sunver wrote: »

Im still confused about this: points are account-wide and are earned by VR characters. Lets say I have 100 of them. I put all 100 in one character and I have none left right? I cant put 100 points again in another?

@Sunver‌ no, if you have 100 points then each character can use 100 points. So say you have 100 points, then you make a new character both your VR and your new character will have access to 100 points.

@Faugaun‌ Thank you very much

@Sunver‌ your welcome

Darkonflare15 · January 2015

Smaxx wrote: »

Wouldn't worry too much about being forced into grabbing things you don't want. Just look at the last screenshot:

* Sprinter - Obviously increased run speed or reduced stamina costs.
* Elusive - Probably some way to reduce damage or evade incoming blows.
* Nimbe - Reduced fall damage(?).
* Shade - Somehow improved sneaking.
* Plentiful Harvest - More stuff from ressource nodes as seen in the screenshot.
* Merchant Favored - Maybe unlocking higher level items on merchants or offering better prices? Or maybe something for upcoming fences?
* Shadowstrike - Some bonus for stealth attacks.
* Master Gatherer - An upgrade to Plentiful Harvest?

Just from this one example, I can see several options that will be interesting for any character, no matter whether it's a mage, healer, tank or damage dealer, despite originating from the thief constellation.

I guess other groups will look similar. There'll be many small nice to have bonuses, but you'll have to pick your favorites rather than dumping all your points into one, which is a good thing IMO.

They already said that the mage will be about offensive stuff, not just magic. Also the warrior will be defensive, not just physical damage or something like that.

So where's the problem? Also why complain about you being unable to ever finish some character? In games like Eve Online you'd need 20+ years to train everything, yet you don't have to, since there are diminishing returns, and I guess ESO will go a similar route. The first 10 points in a star might be far more effective than the next 10 points.

Sprinter - reduced stamina costs for sprinting.
Elusive - reduce damage while roll dodging .
Nimbe - Take less time for stuns and cc to last on you.
Shade - improved sneaking cost

This is going by what Maria Aliprando said on Eso live episode 8.
Elusive and Nimble could be interchangeable but I believe Nimble makes sense for less time on stuns and cc. Plus I like the idea of reducing damage by roll dodging. I get tired of roll dodging a boss just to get hit because the bosses reach always hits me and waste a lot of stamina. I might as well just take the hit but with reducing damage on roll dodging makes roll dodging better.I hope that there are other passives that reduces damage on roll dodging other than the champion passive.

Darkonflare15 · January 2015

rotaugen454 wrote: »

The pics make it look like there are 8 stars in each minor constellation, and there are 9 of those (3 for each of Warrior, Thief, Mage). You can spend 100 points per star. Does that mean there are potentially 7,200 champion points to earn?

There are eight stars but four are points spend and the other four are points unlock. Meaning you spend points in only four stars until you reach 10, 30, 75, 120. Which unlocks the other stars for each number points put into the constellations.

Example, I put 10 points into Shade which is a point spend star. Since I have reach a total of 10 points in the constellation of the Shadow, I unlocked Plentiful Harvest which is a points unlock star. Since there is only four stars that you put points in per constellation and there is a total of 9 constellations. You will have a total of 3600 champion points to earn.

dietlime · January 2015

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

Rainingblood wrote: »

When you earn a Champion Point, that point will be assigned to the Warrior, the Thief, or the Mage, in that order. Once you earn a point in the Thief, for instance, your next point will be assigned to the Mage, and the next after that to the Warrior. You choose which of the three constellations under that sign to spend your point on.

I'm confused about this part... So you HAVE to spend a point in each constellation in that specific order?? That seems to not be flexible. At all.

Can you not spend the point in one, then spend 2 in the next constellation?

I hope this is not true and you are misunderstanding because I will leave the game instantly. I can't think play a game where I have to use mage skills if I am a warrior.

So, if I want to unlock all warrior constellation I need to spend all my life in this game to get it?. This system will favor people that play tons of hours in a day and will f**k PvP players.

Take your multiple VR characters and get out, then. Any character in The Elder Scrolls not using some kind of magic is a gimp. Deal with it.

dietlime · January 2015

Arato wrote: »

Now are we going to continue to gain Veteran ranks when Update 6 goes live? Are we going to still have VR rank requirements for equipment? At the moment I guess I've been playing a different character (when I've had time) to get them to VR1.

When they remove VR ranks from our characters, they will add nodes to the CP tree for each gear tier, and respec our CP.

This maintains the integrity of the game, CP resolves the extreme grind problem (it is the reason people don't play ESO), and the player-exclusion (based on VR level) at the same time.

My VR3 and easily do VR6+ dungeons but nobody will ever let me try because of the label. I'm not playing another 14 zones of dialogue skipping through linear fetch quests. It's 2015.

Originally the VR experience was intended to be a sliding scale of difficulty where you could challenge yourself to do just about any of it (in a group) right away at VR1; go anywhere. Not a linear rush through every zone in the entire game. That's why it takes so long to level: you aren't meant to be VR14 before you do all this stuff.

curlyqloub14_ESO · January 2015

I don't understand these comments from people saying they are waiting to hit VR levels on their characters, b/c those who are already VR will not get as much CP (and likewise people who already have VR14 characters and are saying they are basically getting screwed)...

Does this mean Vet Rank characters will not get retroactive CP equivalent to whatever amount of Vet Rank xp they have earned? I would think that when the champion system goes live, a character who is already VR2 (for example) would already have 5 CP available to spend (or whatever the equivalent CP is for all of VR1). Is that not how it will work?

Also, can someone clarify the how the account-wide points work? If I have two VR level characters who both earn 100 CP each - will there then be ...

A - 200 CP available to all characters to spend?
Or
B - Does the CP that the second character earns basically overwrite the first, so that account-wide all characters still only have 100 CP?

If (A) is true, this seems like it would vastly favor players who have multiple vet rank characters. Especially if retroactive CP is applied when 1.6 is released.

ArconSeptim · January 2015

Cody wrote: »

This means update 6 is coming soon. very good.

iv been off for a couple of days(school project that the internet refuses to let me do) so its nice to see update 6 may be here soon, or at least on the PTS

5 days past already think again

Gyudan · January 2015

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

I don't understand these comments from people saying they are waiting to hit VR levels on their characters, b/c those who are already VR will not get as much CP (and likewise people who already have VR14 characters and are saying they are basically getting screwed)...

Does this mean Vet Rank characters will not get retroactive CP equivalent to whatever amount of Vet Rank xp they have earned? I would think that when the champion system goes live, a character who is already VR2 (for example) would already have 5 CP available to spend (or whatever the equivalent CP is for all of VR1). Is that not how it will work?

Also, can someone clarify the how the account-wide points work? If I have two VR level characters who both earn 100 CP each - will there then be ...

A - 200 CP available to all characters to spend?
Or
B - Does the CP that the second character earns basically overwrite the first, so that account-wide all characters still only have 100 CP?

If (A) is true, this seems like it would vastly favor players who have multiple vet rank characters. Especially if retroactive CP is applied when 1.6 is released.

@curlyqloub14_ESO‌

The conversion is capped at 70 Champion Points, which is equivalent to a VR14 character and 1,000,000 extra XP or two brand new VR8 characters.
You get 1 CP / 200,000XP upon release of update 6, and the points will be earned at a different rate later on (not disclosed yet).

If you have 100 points on your account, any character will be able to use 100 points. You can put 100 in character A, 100 in character B, 100 in character C, ...

curlyqloub14_ESO · January 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

@curlyqloub14_ESO‌

The conversion is capped at 70 Champion Points, which is equivalent to a VR14 character and 1,000,000 extra XP or two brand new VR8 characters.
You get 1 CP / 200,000XP upon release of update 6, and the points will be earned at a different rate later on (not disclosed yet).

So, if I understand this correctly, the conversion problem really only exists for people who have had a VR14 character for a while already, and have been doing stuff that *would* earn CP with the new system, but since they are already at max level, they get nothing for their work? Is that the idea? If so, then my currently VR2 character won't be missing out on anything if I continue to level it? That would make sense, though still doesn't explain to me why I've seen people say they are waiting with characters at lvl 49 - waiting until champion system comes out to level them any more than 49.

jackyd · January 2015

In regards to the power creep concern about ppl with a lot of time on their hand as well as the concerns that in order to stay competitive one needs to play 24/7 for 8 straight weeks:

We know from the December 19th 2014 ESO Live that CP ranks will increase logarithmically and not linearly. To illustrate this is how the power curve of CPs will look like:

This means that the bulk of the strength for any given CP passive will be achieved through the first 20 - 30 points put into that skill.

e.g.: Your 30 first points into Blade Master will net you a 15% increase the Sword damage, adding the remainder of the 100pts the MAX achievable boost would be say 22.5% for a whooping 7.5% increase for those 70pts spent.

Source This puts you right at the start of the champion system. It is a very detailed and in depth descriptions on how we can expect the system to work out once it hits PTS. I also advise to stick through the Q&A at the end as there are a lot questions that are roaming the forums that have already been answered.

Oh and to the ones complaining that they can't dump all points straight into one tree: in order to maximize efficiently spending your CP you will need to spread them out due to the diminishing returns

iseko · January 2015

Phaedrus wrote: »

I think once again ZOS is overlooking something glaring for current max level characters. We have already done everything there is to do so now we either have to do it all over again under a new character or be at a huge disadvantage.

The same was true when they released new Undaunted passives. If your character had done all the dungeon achievements you were basically SOL and weren't able to level Undaunted as quickly as someone who had done 0 dungeons.

This will hold true of the new Champion System points. If I have completed all quests, discovered all POI's, destroyed all Dolmens, ran all dungeons/trials and am already at Alliance Rank 37 then how am I supposed to gain XP at the same rate as someone who has not?

Achievements would also be an investment in CP they said. Since 1.5 they are also keeping track of your progress beyond vr14 I remember hearing (don't quote me on that). I think that whole undaunted debacle made them think this time. Or not... still ZOS

m12d12_ESO · January 2015

I don't like it. To me, it is not player friendly. It is certainly confusing and confusion is something I would prefer not have when trying to elaborate on my current or future builds.
ZEN could have made this skill tree more simple and user friendly. The former Skyrim's skill tree was easier to manage than this is going to be.
I am not always a huge fan of drastic change but of course I will give it a chance. Tho I think it was best either left as we have them now or adding a more minor addition to the current system. Just my person opinion tho.

Justiful · January 2015

I have been gone from the game for 7 months. I am coming back because of this change and others. Plus PS4 version I may play. Honestly the old system never made sense to me, this makes a lot more sense.

jeanbulinckxub17_ESO · March 2015

I have a question

They say tthe chapion points are accoount wide.

For my main char VR14 I spent all 70 points
Logging with my secondary char VR9 I found more 70 points to spent on it

First! if the points are account wide why the effects are not?
Second! they are REALLY acount wide?

Thunder · July 2015

I know I'm late to the party, but I just found out about champion points a few days ago, and only today did I find out they are account wide!!!

EXCELLENT WORK!!!!!

I think everything should be account wide...

crafting
riding skill
thief skills

...basically anything that could possibly be made account wide, make it account wide.

With champ points being account wide, and from what I hear they will replace VR levels, no matter what character you are logged into, you are gaining progression on all characters, even low level alts! I love this new direction you are thinking in. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!