Official Discussion Thread for "Update 6 Guide: The Champion System"

Ghenra

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

Rainingblood wrote: »

When you earn a Champion Point, that point will be assigned to the Warrior, the Thief, or the Mage, in that order. Once you earn a point in the Thief, for instance, your next point will be assigned to the Mage, and the next after that to the Warrior. You choose which of the three constellations under that sign to spend your point on.

I'm confused about this part... So you HAVE to spend a point in each constellation in that specific order?? That seems to not be flexible. At all.

Can you not spend the point in one, then spend 2 in the next constellation?

I hope this is not true and you are misunderstanding because I will leave the game instantly. I can't think play a game where I have to use mage skills if I am a warrior.

So, if I want to unlock all warrior constellation I need to spend all my life in this game to get it?. This system will favor people that play tons of hours in a day and will f**k PvP players.

I think the same, if I need X years to have my character at 100% I leave the game now. I want a game that I can select atributes to be strong in some features but feble in others.

If so, the game will become a hardcore game where the most flawed players will be more powerfull than normal players because they can be strong in all the constelations --> epic fail.

WillhelmBlack

Rosveen wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I'm feeling a little unimpressed tbh. Thought it would be less linear and more customizable. Why would a melee Nord or Redguard even be interested in Mage points? I thought it would be better thought out this, never mind, I'm still looking forward to it.

"and points spent in the Mage increase magicka and grant benefits to physical and magical offensive power."

Take another look at the Atronach screenshot in the article. The featured passive is Blade Expert and you can see Heavy Weapon Expert, Bow Expert or Butcher in the same tree. Suffice to say, there's something in Mage for a melee Redguard.

I saw that, it's very confusing. Melee is not magic. It seems like the champion system just levels you up very equally to everyone else. As in, everyone just ends up the same in the end, what if I'm a caster and I want to be fully focused on long range spells and dodging. I wanna put two thirds of all points into magicka and one third in stamina. No I have to waste some in health passives, which I didn't want because I wasn't planning on getting hit all that much.

On a rotation everyone is very likely to be picking the same damn points because they'll pick the most powerful

Akalukz

When you earn a Champion Point, that point will be assigned to the Warrior, the Thief, or the Mage, in that order. Once you earn a point in the Thief, for instance, your next point will be assigned to the Mage, and the next after that to the Warrior. You choose which of the three constellations under that sign to spend your point on.

Pretty specific, it goes 1 Warrior / 1 Thief / 1 Mage. So 4th point has to be put back into Warrior. Strange, I thought it would be more flexible. I guess the "hardcore" will again be at a significant advantage.

WillhelmBlack

We are getting this right aren't we? We can't just wait for the constellation to go back to say thief again, and spend the previous and next point in that?

Sorta like a delayed but more focused progression?

WillhelmBlack

Will all the champion points be scaled off what you have put in to attributes?

If I put 50 into health, will all my Warrior champion passives/perks be the most powerful they can be?

Exstazik

Is there passive which will add oneshot passive skill to pet's?
Or make combo-wobmo:Clanfear+Matriarch=your class change to DK?

kept4lifeb14_ESO

Kraven wrote: »

So each Major constellation has 3 minor in it, Warrior, Thief, and Mage break down into 9 minors.

Warrior
[*] Lady
[*] Steed
[*] Lord
Thief
[*] Tower
[*] Lover
[*] Shadow
Mage
[*]Apprentice
[*] Ritual
[*] Atronach


Just because I have to spend a point in each Major in order doesn't mean there aren't options I will want within the Minor trees. So if I spend 1 for warrior first, I personally might choose to spend that point in Lady where my buddy might choose to spend it in the Steed and another may choose to spend it in Lord. Then when we move on to spend our second point in the Thief tree I can go Shadow, friend can go Tower and other friend Lover.

This. Everyone complaining about being forced to use XXXX skills, please read and learn from what Zenimax has shared and intelligent people have clarified. The 3 main consolations will have useful skills for any role.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

OMG.... Are you aware that new players will be owned by regular players alters? Are you sure this system will be positive to the game?. If I understand right my lvl 10 alter character will destroy a lvl 10 new player character......

Plus the new champion system will reward people who spend 100000000000 hours in the game and people with job always will play with disadvantage against flawed players.

ZOS why are you destroying the game????? :-(

Arato

Okay I'm REALLY confused about this entire system. Since it's announcement as a replacement to VR's, I have been neglecting to level my VR character and he's been at VR6 for months because I don't know how this is going to pan out with gear and all that

Originally we were told Level 50 would be the level cap and champion points replace veteran ranks and all gear would be wearable at level 50. Which was confusing because you had 5 tiers of craftable level 50 gear then which is kind of silly.

Now are we going to continue to gain Veteran ranks when Update 6 goes live? Are we going to still have VR rank requirements for equipment? At the moment I guess I've been playing a different character (when I've had time) to get them to VR1.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Despair9 wrote: »

I calculated that leveling from VR1-VR14 will get you only 35 CP, maybe more or less, depends on how they tweak it before it gets released on live.

I think you're shorting yourself on the CP points. It takes 1 million xp per ver level. You get 5 CP per every million xp you have. A 14VR charactor will have at least 13 million xp. So in order to start Update 6 with the max 70 CP , you'll need a VR 14 and a VR 2 charactor. Or any combo of 16 VR levels between all your charactors. Most people who've been playing regularly, or even semi-regularly, will have the necessary xp, (14 million) to earn the 70CP at start.

Exstazik

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Despair9 wrote: »

I calculated that leveling from VR1-VR14 will get you only 35 CP, maybe more or less, depends on how they tweak it before it gets released on live.

I think you're shorting yourself on the CP points. It takes 1 million xp per ver level. You get 5 CP per every million xp you have. A 14VR charactor will have at least 13 million xp. So in order to start Update 6 with the max 70 CP , you'll need a VR 14 and a VR 2 charactor. Or any combo of 16 VR levels between all your charactors. Most people who've been playing regularly, or even semi-regularly, will have the necessary xp, (14 million) to earn the 70CP at start.

vr2 and 0%-1кк exp
vr3-1kk
vr4-1кк
vr5-1kk
vr6-1кк
vr7-1kk
vr8-1кк
vr9-1kk
vr10-1кк
vr11-1kk
vr12-1кк
vr13-1kk
vr14-1кк
vr14 and 100%-1кк

Total:14kk=70CP

seanvwolf

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I'm feeling a little unimpressed tbh. Thought it would be less linear and more customizable. Why would a melee Nord or Redguard even be interested in Mage points? I thought it would be better thought out this, never mind, I'm still looking forward to it.

Because not all the start in the Mage line are geared toward just mage builds. Watch ESO Live... or the past few ones, where they discussed all this.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Let's see..... If the champion system will be like I am thinking, we will be able to unlock 7200 CP (In the pic Atronach constellation have 8 stars, so 8x100 (Points available per stars)x3 (minor constellations)x3 (major constellations) = 7200.

Each CP will be equivalent to 200.000 XP, so 5 CP will be equivalent to one VR rank. If I am right, reach the highest CP lvl will be equivalent to lvl up 1440 Veteran ranks!!!!!!! (7200/5=1440). Are you crazy ZOS!!!!!!!!!!! and don't say now CP will give only little buffs because in atronarch pic you can see that each point you spend in "blade expert" star increase your light attacks by 0.4% and if you spend 100 CP here you will do 40% more dmg than a new player!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

What happen if I have lo leave the game for 6 months and I would come back in the future?? Will I never be able to catch a friend that kept playing????

Is this the game that you want ZOS? a chinesse farming game whitout end? This will destroy any kind of competitive PvP.



EDIT: My apologies to zenimax, I didn't understand the CP and unknown things like DR system. The CP looks really great. Thanks and keep in the good work.

rotaugen454

The pics make it look like there are 8 stars in each minor constellation, and there are 9 of those (3 for each of Warrior, Thief, Mage). You can spend 100 points per star. Does that mean there are potentially 7,200 champion points to earn?

Rosveen

rotaugen454 wrote: »

The pics make it look like there are 8 stars in each minor constellation, and there are 9 of those (3 for each of Warrior, Thief, Mage). You can spend 100 points per star. Does that mean there are potentially 7,200 champion points to earn?

There are 3600 points. So it looks like we can't max out every star.

iamtallerthanfrodob14_ESO

My only concern is the pre ordained set up of what each class tree actually is and can do. For example the warrior, it says putting points in this tree will boost health and defense.....One of the longest standing issues alot of players have had is that there is no pure warrior dps class in eso(stamina based full armor dps etc etc) It would seem like in eso's mind that the warrior is for tanking roles only... What do yall think of this ?

phreatophile

It's possible I've missunderstood (likely even), but here are a few things that occured to me:

1.) Looking at the screenshots linked in the OP, for any given character, far fewer than half of the passives will be desirable for that character. We'll max out all useful passives (besides capstone passives) long, long before 3600pts. For example: a 2H Sword/Bow using character won't be putting points into "staff expert" and probably not into "heavy weapons expert"(I'm assuming this goes to axe and mace, since "blade expert" goes to swords, daggers, and two handed swords) until it's required to get the capstone passives. Once we've gotten all the usefull passives it's going to be a long, long, long time of putting points into fluff that's completely useless to our character to get to the capstone passives.

2.) On one hand, I think some of the worry about rotating warrior, mage, thief is overblown since we are looking at the Atronach (w/i Mage) and it's loaded with weapon abilities. I'm pretty sure there will be something for everyone early in each constellation.

3.) On the other hand, it means that all of the top level capstone passives are so far away that (see above) most of us will have spent months to years putting points into passives we don't need by the time we get to the most powerfull (useful) abilities. While they haven't stated exactly how much xp/champ point, 400K has been talked about, meaning 3600 champion points will take around 1.44 Billion xp or some similarly huge number, that's 1440 veteran levels for those counting along at home. Considering how much people hate 14 veteran levels, I think there will be a huge loss of enthusiasm long before we get there. I can already imagine what putting around a half a billion xp worth of champion points into staff, mace, and other unused passives will feel like.

To help you earn Champion Points, we’ve introduced a new mechanic called Enlightenment to the game. Over time, your account will accrue Enlightenment. You do not have to be logged in to accrue Enlightenment.

As you participate in activities that grant experience to your Veteran Rank character, Enlightenment provides you with a bonus to Champion Point progression, helping you earn points faster. Eventually, you may run out of Enlightenment, but don’t worry—more Enlightenment is added to your account every 24 hours.

4.) Enlightenment accrues all the time, but is only added to the account every 24 hours. If I play 2hrs a day, every day, finishing at 12AM, obviously 24hrs will not have elapsed by the time I log in on the following day. It appears that accrued enlightenment won't be added until after I log out. I assume (with all that implies) that on day 3 when I log in I'll have day 1's enlightenment and on day 4 I'll have day 2's enlightenment and so on. Is this correct? Shouldn't any accrued bonus to xp gain be applied when I log in to play and use that bonus, instead of on a 24hr timer that will get advanced a few minutes most every day?

Edit: I read that the big passive in each tree is at 100pts; meaning that my worst fear above is invalid. Mea Culpa.

jdroebuckb16_ESO

Personally I think this sounds amazing. I am more than happy to have a MMORPG that I can play forever and continually improve my character. The reason I bore of most MMORPG is because I hit max level and max my character out and then end up playing the "gear game".

I enjoy playing to get the best gear but what I enjoy even more is being able to continually tweak and improve my character with new and improved skills/stats/abilities.

I for one will remain subbed to this game and whereas I don't play as often as I like (it appears having your first baby takes time away from gaming, who would have thought?) then when I do now log on I know I have LOTS of progression to keep working towards.

What we want is a game with so many variations in builds that you genuinely do not know what is the best to have. I think this was the original vision but bad design choices at launch has led to certain playstyles/builds being too dominant. We need variety and I hope this helps bring that original vision to fruition.

TehMagnus

Looks awesome, sucks there needs to be a transition between 1.6 and 1.7, hope 1.7 comes fast and the Veteran Ranks are removed ASAP!

Ruben

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

What happen if I have lo leave the game for 6 months and I would come back in the future?? Will I never be able to catch a friend that kept playing????

Why would anyone play high end content if you can wait 6 months and be insta-catched up with top tier players?

Farorin

***, how do people not realise yet that even though it may be a mage point, there would still be something in one of those constellations that may benefit a warrior? Another example, a warrior point may have something you can spend it on to benefit a thief or mage. The constellations from what I have seen are quite versatile.

I saw some guy saying it will be a constant grind now, MMOs ALWAYS have a grinding component to them if they include character progression, or equipment progression, at least this is a fun and interesting way of doing it.

Nerouyn

Mix wrote: »

You earn points equally under each guardian so if you have only 3 points, you will have 1 in warrior, 1 in mage and 1 in thief. You must address all aspects of your character, but if you watch ESO live you will note that there are stars in the constellations under each guardian that are desirable to a variety of playstyles.

You know, I thought with spellcrafting in the works they'd realised the error of their ways. Seems not.

This champion system basically looks like a more restrictive version of perks, albeit respeccable it seems. So at least they learned that lesson from Skyrim. But how is it value adding? We already tweak our stats with gear, enchants etc. This is just another layer of the same. Total yawn.

And seriously what is with FORCING players to spread points between all three constellations? It's just like FORCING all players to use magic with the existing class system. A huge part of the charm of Elder Scrolls games has been freedom of choice in how you developer your character and the freedom to choose a different path at any time without having to restart the game.

FREEDOM good. FORCING bad.

Gyudan

Did anyone notice the "merchant favored" perk among the shadow? I wonder what it does, maybe reduced repair cost?
I hope it doesn't affect the sell value of items, otherwise everyone will be using an alt specifically for selling stuff, which would be even worse than the current mule alts for inventory management.

Varolokkur216

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

So pumped for this!

I'm not..this Champion system sounds [snip] stupid..i guess we shall see..

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Smaxx

Wouldn't worry too much about being forced into grabbing things you don't want. Just look at the last screenshot:

* Sprinter - Obviously increased run speed or reduced stamina costs.
* Elusive - Probably some way to reduce damage or evade incoming blows.
* Nimbe - Reduced fall damage(?).
* Shade - Somehow improved sneaking.
* Plentiful Harvest - More stuff from ressource nodes as seen in the screenshot.
* Merchant Favored - Maybe unlocking higher level items on merchants or offering better prices? Or maybe something for upcoming fences?
* Shadowstrike - Some bonus for stealth attacks.
* Master Gatherer - An upgrade to Plentiful Harvest?

Just from this one example, I can see several options that will be interesting for any character, no matter whether it's a mage, healer, tank or damage dealer, despite originating from the thief constellation.

I guess other groups will look similar. There'll be many small nice to have bonuses, but you'll have to pick your favorites rather than dumping all your points into one, which is a good thing IMO.

They already said that the mage will be about offensive stuff, not just magic. Also the warrior will be defensive, not just physical damage or something like that.

So where's the problem? Also why complain about you being unable to ever finish some character? In games like Eve Online you'd need 20+ years to train everything, yet you don't have to, since there are diminishing returns, and I guess ESO will go a similar route. The first 10 points in a star might be far more effective than the next 10 points.

Wolfsspinne

EsORising wrote: »

I Champion System. So I understand we get 1 pt for each constellation in order and can't just choose one build, but do we have to put pts into different constellations after a reset? For example I reset and I'm at 0/100 pts used so can't i just put them all into theif after I reset them.

You get like Green Points, Blue Points and Red Points.
If you rest them they stick to their color.

If you reset your 100 points then you still have 33 green, 33 blue, 33 red and one which is added to the color that is first in the order.


@arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO
Since skills like "Blade Expert" which grants additional damage on light/heavy attacks with swords/daggers are gouvened by the mage (sign of the Atronach) you pretty much want no other points but those for the signs under the mage as a warrior!

Sorry to see you leaving.

Jujujitsu

Just trying to clarify some things for people. It appears that there are approximately 3600 pts available and not the 7000+ number. If you look at the pictures it appears that the bottom four stars can have points put into them and that the top four stars represent the passives that will be unlocked at levels 10, 30, 75, 100. That is 4 to upgrade and 4 to unlock creating the 8 stars that we see. And then 9 minor constellations with 4 upgradeable stars = 36 x 100pts is a total of 3600. At least that is how I see this after watching the last ESO Live and seeing this post.

At first I didn't like the idea of being told that I would have to put pts into a specific constellation, ie Warrior, Mage, Thief and the order would rotate as I earned each new pt. But it does appear that there will be options under each one that will be viable to my builds. So I will wait and see how it works out. I appreciate the fact that they are working with the player base to constantly improve our gaming experience.

Wolfsspinne

Smaxx wrote: »

So where's the problem? Also why complain about you being unable to ever finish some character? In games like Eve Online you'd need 20+ years to train everything, yet you don't have to, since there are diminishing returns, and I guess ESO will go a similar route. The first 10 points in a star might be far more effective than the next 10 points.

The fist 120 points in each constellation are the most effective since those grant you the "strong passives".
Since there are 9 constellations you need 1080p (isn't that Full HD?) to unlock all the strong passives.


As for nimble, I guess it's more like less stamina for dodge roll.

MissBizz

I would really like to know more about how enlightment works... It says I don't have to be logged in.. But it doesn't say I have to be logged off either. Does it get added to everyone's account every 24 hours?

Knightpanther

MissBizz wrote: »

I would really like to know more about how enlightment works... It says I don't have to be logged in.. But it doesn't say I have to be logged off either. Does it get added to everyone's account every 24 hours?

I'm hoping that it will work a little like the Everquest 2 system which balances out casual or those who have too much time on their hands.
In EQ;
You have vitality which when at 100% increases the rate at which you gain EXP/AAXP (Alternate Advancement), slowly as you play the Vitality fades at which point you earn the normal rate of EXP.
When you log out this rested state renews your vitality so when you log back in EXP goes faster again.
This really helps if you don't play for a few days because when you log back in that Vitality really helps you Exp fly.

Wondering if its something similar?

Be safe