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Please nerf NBs and remove detection pots so i can actually have fun on my NB again
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »When someone uses a detect pot there is quite an obvious tell any good NB should be able to read. Other than the potion effect on the hostile player, your stealth eye will never close completely and remain a sliver opened. At that point you can stop rolling and mashing cloak and turn and fight.
Turn and fight... right, where did I put my dmg shield -oh wait nevermind.
Ok, maybe I should hold block and spam heal- ah right, no heals apart from the 2-3k HPS from Vigor.
Well then, I'll just block & tank everything like these block bros. Woops, out of stamina & taking tons of damage since I'm not build towards tanking.
Last option: instagib opponent somehow, or just die quicker so I can respawn faster.
Doesn't really sound ideal to me.
Also, detection potion does not have any tell, apart from someone clearly hitting you while you're stealthed (no, the eye does not open until you get hit by the attacks).
It does, as soon as someone uses one your eye opens some if you are stealthed. If they aren't stealthed you will see a swirling effect around their legs when they pop it. Good NBs can stand and fight, and they do it all the time. You can find your damage shield in the undaunted line.
If you are sneaking you mean?
There is no indication you are being detected while cloaked.
Also, swirling effect comes from CC immunity potions as well.
As for your undaunted dmg shield... you do know it only works against physical damage, right?
Nor should every player be forced to use dmg shields, which is why we have skills like cloak for alternative ways of avoiding damage. That is good for build diversity in game as well.
If anything, this game needs more alternative ways of defending yourself and no magic potions that make these skills useless (or alternatively, they could make magic potions that make dmg shields, blocking, dodging & BoL/Streak useless, in order to balance it).
There is also a magicka shield in the light armor line, absorb magicka, use both or take your pick? I don't know why you don't get an indication of detect pots being used in the area but when I am stealthed if some hostile in the raidius uses one my eye cracks to where I know there is someone looking.
Honestly, I don't think they should try and balance the game around one ganking build when there are already many useful NB builds that accomplish various goals. I'm a STA DK atm, in 1 v 1s I know I'm going to lose 90% of the time, it's a group utility build I run because it works for the group. You have your build, maybe you are set up for ganking singles and vanishing, and I get you being upset if you don't get a 1 shot and your target pops a detect and turns the table on you but can't you accept that as a cost of playing a build with no staying power who relies 100% on cloak if you don't instagib?
Yes, there is a magicka shield in Light Armour skill line, that absorbs magic damage only.
You want to know how much it absorbs for, if you are playing a stamina build? It absorbs for 6k magic damage (so most likely not even one skill, let alone rotation). If you are slotting such skills, I can understand why you lose 90% of your 1v1s.
Second of all, no one was talking about one shotting or instagibbing people (that is another, separate issue).
Also, can you provide one good reason why I shouldn't be able to base my survivability around stealth & avoiding damage?
Or why people should be able to base their survivability around spamming damage shields or heals, or blocking infinitely then?
And as mentioned before, last I checked there were no potions making opponent's blocking, dmg shielding, healing or BoL/Streak useless.
Lastly, since you had to bring up my build(s) (I have another highly competitive DW/DW build as well) and "staying power"... I'm quite certain my build outperforms any other one stamina NB build out there in terms of staying power, and there's a simple reason for that: taking hits from one opponent when the other nine are dead is much more sustainable than taking hits from 10 players while being unable to kill any of them.
P.S. There is a difference between regular sneaking & cloak mechanic.
While sneaking, you do usually get the indicator that you have been detected.
While cloaked, no such thing happens and you are simply popped out of it.Edited by DDuke on 27 June 2015 17:580 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »When someone uses a detect pot there is quite an obvious tell any good NB should be able to read. Other than the potion effect on the hostile player, your stealth eye will never close completely and remain a sliver opened. At that point you can stop rolling and mashing cloak and turn and fight.
Turn and fight... right, where did I put my dmg shield -oh wait nevermind.
Ok, maybe I should hold block and spam heal- ah right, no heals apart from the 2-3k HPS from Vigor.
Well then, I'll just block & tank everything like these block bros. Woops, out of stamina & taking tons of damage since I'm not build towards tanking.
Last option: instagib opponent somehow, or just die quicker so I can respawn faster.
Doesn't really sound ideal to me.
Also, detection potion does not have any tell, apart from someone clearly hitting you while you're stealthed (no, the eye does not open until you get hit by the attacks).
It does, as soon as someone uses one your eye opens some if you are stealthed. If they aren't stealthed you will see a swirling effect around their legs when they pop it. Good NBs can stand and fight, and they do it all the time. You can find your damage shield in the undaunted line.
If you are sneaking you mean?
There is no indication you are being detected while cloaked.
Also, swirling effect comes from CC immunity potions as well.
As for your undaunted dmg shield... you do know it only works against physical damage, right?
Nor should every player be forced to use dmg shields, which is why we have skills like cloak for alternative ways of avoiding damage. That is good for build diversity in game as well.
If anything, this game needs more alternative ways of defending yourself and no magic potions that make these skills useless (or alternatively, they could make magic potions that make dmg shields, blocking, dodging & BoL/Streak useless, in order to balance it).
There is also a magicka shield in the light armor line, absorb magicka, use both or take your pick? I don't know why you don't get an indication of detect pots being used in the area but when I am stealthed if some hostile in the raidius uses one my eye cracks to where I know there is someone looking.
Honestly, I don't think they should try and balance the game around one ganking build when there are already many useful NB builds that accomplish various goals. I'm a STA DK atm, in 1 v 1s I know I'm going to lose 90% of the time, it's a group utility build I run because it works for the group. You have your build, maybe you are set up for ganking singles and vanishing, and I get you being upset if you don't get a 1 shot and your target pops a detect and turns the table on you but can't you accept that as a cost of playing a build with no staying power who relies 100% on cloak if you don't instagib?
Yes, there is a magicka shield in Light Armour skill line, that absorbs magic damage only.
You want to know how much it absorbs for, if you are playing a stamina build? It absorbs for 6k magic damage (so most likely not even one skill, let alone rotation). If you are slotting such skills, I can understand why you lose 90% of your 1v1s.
If you would indulge me, what exactly do you think is a balanced damage shield. You made it quite clear that you despise damage shields and think in particular that hardened ward and healing ward are too strong. Yet the other damage shields in the game, you scoff at as being legitimate defenses. If a shield cannot survive more than one rotation is in your estimation trash that will cause people to lose fights, yet one that can sustain more that one rotation is OP, well, what is Zenimax to do?Edited by Joy_Division on 27 June 2015 19:312 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »When someone uses a detect pot there is quite an obvious tell any good NB should be able to read. Other than the potion effect on the hostile player, your stealth eye will never close completely and remain a sliver opened. At that point you can stop rolling and mashing cloak and turn and fight.
Turn and fight... right, where did I put my dmg shield -oh wait nevermind.
Ok, maybe I should hold block and spam heal- ah right, no heals apart from the 2-3k HPS from Vigor.
Well then, I'll just block & tank everything like these block bros. Woops, out of stamina & taking tons of damage since I'm not build towards tanking.
Last option: instagib opponent somehow, or just die quicker so I can respawn faster.
Doesn't really sound ideal to me.
Also, detection potion does not have any tell, apart from someone clearly hitting you while you're stealthed (no, the eye does not open until you get hit by the attacks).
It does, as soon as someone uses one your eye opens some if you are stealthed. If they aren't stealthed you will see a swirling effect around their legs when they pop it. Good NBs can stand and fight, and they do it all the time. You can find your damage shield in the undaunted line.
If you are sneaking you mean?
There is no indication you are being detected while cloaked.
Also, swirling effect comes from CC immunity potions as well.
As for your undaunted dmg shield... you do know it only works against physical damage, right?
Nor should every player be forced to use dmg shields, which is why we have skills like cloak for alternative ways of avoiding damage. That is good for build diversity in game as well.
If anything, this game needs more alternative ways of defending yourself and no magic potions that make these skills useless (or alternatively, they could make magic potions that make dmg shields, blocking, dodging & BoL/Streak useless, in order to balance it).
There is also a magicka shield in the light armor line, absorb magicka, use both or take your pick? I don't know why you don't get an indication of detect pots being used in the area but when I am stealthed if some hostile in the raidius uses one my eye cracks to where I know there is someone looking.
Honestly, I don't think they should try and balance the game around one ganking build when there are already many useful NB builds that accomplish various goals. I'm a STA DK atm, in 1 v 1s I know I'm going to lose 90% of the time, it's a group utility build I run because it works for the group. You have your build, maybe you are set up for ganking singles and vanishing, and I get you being upset if you don't get a 1 shot and your target pops a detect and turns the table on you but can't you accept that as a cost of playing a build with no staying power who relies 100% on cloak if you don't instagib?
Yes, there is a magicka shield in Light Armour skill line, that absorbs magic damage only.
You want to know how much it absorbs for, if you are playing a stamina build? It absorbs for 6k magic damage (so most likely not even one skill, let alone rotation). If you are slotting such skills, I can understand why you lose 90% of your 1v1s.
If you would indulge me, what exactly do you think is a balanced damage shield. You made it quite clear that you despise damage shields and think in particular that hardened ward and healing ward are too strong. Yet the other damage shields in the game, you scoff at as being legitimate defenses. If a shield cannot survive more than one rotation is in your estimation trash that will cause people to lose fights, yet one that can sustain more that one rotation is OP, well, what is Zenimax to do?
It's a combination of many, many broken things really.
I'm just as (well ok, maybe slightly less) disgusted by the <0,1 second TTK in this game as I am with infinite resources & 20k dmg shields, or 90% dmg mitigation combined with infinite CC immunity..
As for what Zenimax should do, I have a list of things but I'll try to condense it:- Give everyone a lot more health (readjusting abilities that scale off your health accordingly)
- Make offensive abilities slightly stronger than defensive ones (means nerfing certain dmg shields), or make defensive abilities consume significantly more resources or give them a short cooldown (or bolt escape treatment)
- Remove infinite resources
- Make block directional
- Give roll dodge a short cooldown
- Make stealth detection gradual, rather than instant
- Make it impossible to have over 40% resistances, without building to be a tank
Edited by DDuke on 27 June 2015 20:052 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »When someone uses a detect pot there is quite an obvious tell any good NB should be able to read. Other than the potion effect on the hostile player, your stealth eye will never close completely and remain a sliver opened. At that point you can stop rolling and mashing cloak and turn and fight.
Turn and fight... right, where did I put my dmg shield -oh wait nevermind.
Ok, maybe I should hold block and spam heal- ah right, no heals apart from the 2-3k HPS from Vigor.
Well then, I'll just block & tank everything like these block bros. Woops, out of stamina & taking tons of damage since I'm not build towards tanking.
Last option: instagib opponent somehow, or just die quicker so I can respawn faster.
Doesn't really sound ideal to me.
Also, detection potion does not have any tell, apart from someone clearly hitting you while you're stealthed (no, the eye does not open until you get hit by the attacks).
It does, as soon as someone uses one your eye opens some if you are stealthed. If they aren't stealthed you will see a swirling effect around their legs when they pop it. Good NBs can stand and fight, and they do it all the time. You can find your damage shield in the undaunted line.
If you are sneaking you mean?
There is no indication you are being detected while cloaked.
Also, swirling effect comes from CC immunity potions as well.
As for your undaunted dmg shield... you do know it only works against physical damage, right?
Nor should every player be forced to use dmg shields, which is why we have skills like cloak for alternative ways of avoiding damage. That is good for build diversity in game as well.
If anything, this game needs more alternative ways of defending yourself and no magic potions that make these skills useless (or alternatively, they could make magic potions that make dmg shields, blocking, dodging & BoL/Streak useless, in order to balance it).
There is also a magicka shield in the light armor line, absorb magicka, use both or take your pick? I don't know why you don't get an indication of detect pots being used in the area but when I am stealthed if some hostile in the raidius uses one my eye cracks to where I know there is someone looking.
Honestly, I don't think they should try and balance the game around one ganking build when there are already many useful NB builds that accomplish various goals. I'm a STA DK atm, in 1 v 1s I know I'm going to lose 90% of the time, it's a group utility build I run because it works for the group. You have your build, maybe you are set up for ganking singles and vanishing, and I get you being upset if you don't get a 1 shot and your target pops a detect and turns the table on you but can't you accept that as a cost of playing a build with no staying power who relies 100% on cloak if you don't instagib?
Yes, there is a magicka shield in Light Armour skill line, that absorbs magic damage only.
You want to know how much it absorbs for, if you are playing a stamina build? It absorbs for 6k magic damage (so most likely not even one skill, let alone rotation). If you are slotting such skills, I can understand why you lose 90% of your 1v1s.
If you would indulge me, what exactly do you think is a balanced damage shield. You made it quite clear that you despise damage shields and think in particular that hardened ward and healing ward are too strong. Yet the other damage shields in the game, you scoff at as being legitimate defenses. If a shield cannot survive more than one rotation is in your estimation trash that will cause people to lose fights, yet one that can sustain more that one rotation is OP, well, what is Zenimax to do?
It's a combination of many, many broken things really.
I'm just as (well ok, maybe slightly less) disgusted by the <0,1 second TTK in this game as I am with infinite resources & 20k dmg shields, or 90% dmg mitigation combined with infinite CC immunity..
As for what Zenimax should do, I have a list of things but I'll try to condense it:- Give everyone a lot more health (readjusting abilities that scale off your health accordingly)
- Make offensive abilities slightly stronger than defensive ones (means nerfing certain dmg shields), or make defensive abilities consume significantly more resources or give them a short cooldown (or bolt escape treatment)
- Remove infinite resources
- Make block directional
- Give roll dodge a short cooldown
- Make stealth detection gradual, rather than instant
- Make it impossible to have over 40% resistances, without building to be a tank
All of those, in totality, might work. Who know, maybe with the next update and promises of new viable gear selection, we will see more eye yo eye
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Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A lot of nightblades are stupid right now..they just don't understand that if they nerf detect pots...Stealth is going to be insanely overpowered and then everyone is going to complain about it...Because anytime you have a class that can go in and out of stealth at will its always overpowered...Once the people start complaining, they're going to gut Stealth for Nightblades to make up for it.
This is coming from someone who plays a Nightblade..It will be overpowered...https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos4 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »The tristat Detect Pots I run take "A good deal of time" to gather the materials to make them. I also sell them.
Each potion goes from 100-120 G a piece. So 100 of these pots is 10,000-12,000 gold. Its hardly "free" to counter cloak when a person cna go though 100 detect pots in a few hours...for someone who pvp's 8-10 hours a day it can cost 30,000 gold or more per day just in buying detect pots.
Name me one skill in the game that has such a considerable gold cost to counter? or you can 3-4 hours per day doing nothing but harvesting enough nodes to make them while competing with other players.
Please take this into consideration when talking about detect pots, they are a considerable investment of either time or money, sometimes both. just to counter a skill...seems like no one wants to address that Elephant in the room, all they see if a potion countering a skill when its far more then that....i wish it cost 10-12k gold to counter Bolt Escape...just saying to keep things in perspective.
1 hour spent in Hollow City at 4am will get me enough mats for 300+ pots. Granted not many people can afford to be awake at 4am (I work nights), but I can't imagine it taking 3-4 hours to make 100 pots lol.
PC | EU0 -
Talcyndl✭✭✭✭✭Cloak does not allow you to "escape any fight at will" or "completely control an engagement", that is made sure by charge attacks (breaks cloak), multiple incoming projectiles (4+ breaks cloak), AoE (best counter, if you know how to use it), Curse & Magicka Detonation and the good old detection potion...
Charge requires a target. Kind of difficult to target a stealthed NB. I guess archers can shoot random arrows all over the place and hope. As for AoE, yes it works if you guess correctly. Personally, I will use caltrops if I'm out of detect pots. But, the AoE skills have a magika/stamina cost which puts you at a disadvantage when the NB decides to reengage (usually with an uppercut from stealth).Also, can you tell me how a sorcerer is not "completely controlling an engagement", given that he is able to blink away from danger in a heartbeat?
If only there was a potion that "silenced" the sorc and made his BoL/Streak fail upon casting /sarcasm
I'm of the opinion that infinite bolt escapes are also silly. ZOS agreed at one point and tried to make them non-spamable. That didn't really work - at least not for 90%+ of the sorcs out there who can easily cast them continuously without any serious loss of mana.
I will say though that at least with sorcs you know they aren't going to suddenly attack you from stealth after escaping. They can disengage easily - but they can't then reengage at any time of their choosing.Tal'gro Bol
PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/0 -
Poxheart✭✭✭✭✭Last week I had a really good 1v1 against a nightblade that ended in a draw because neither of us could get the upper hand. During the fight I used 3 detect pots, but he was able to gain enough separation so that he could cloak & reset the fight. This isn't the first time I've had fights like this, just the most recent. In my experience, detect pots are only a death sentence for bad nightblades; good nightblades know how to adapt.
Good for you, throwing those veiled insults around.
Similarly, I could say that good nightblades know where to find other cloaked NBs (especially while using a detection potion), and know how to not let them "gain enough separation", while bad NBs are probably oblivious to these techniques and allow the other NB to reset the fight.
Go figure...
At the time I was playing a DK, but it is telling that you took exception to my comment...Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.
Pox Dragon Knight
Poxheart Nightblade
The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
Knights of the WhiteWolf0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Last week I had a really good 1v1 against a nightblade that ended in a draw because neither of us could get the upper hand. During the fight I used 3 detect pots, but he was able to gain enough separation so that he could cloak & reset the fight. This isn't the first time I've had fights like this, just the most recent. In my experience, detect pots are only a death sentence for bad nightblades; good nightblades know how to adapt.
Good for you, throwing those veiled insults around.
Similarly, I could say that good nightblades know where to find other cloaked NBs (especially while using a detection potion), and know how to not let them "gain enough separation", while bad NBs are probably oblivious to these techniques and allow the other NB to reset the fight.
Go figure...
At the time I was playing a DK, but it is telling that you took exception to my comment...
So you couldn't kill a NB as a DK, even while using detection pots and he actually managed to gain distance and restealth against you?
Wow, it's worse than I thought
Cloak does not allow you to "escape any fight at will" or "completely control an engagement", that is made sure by charge attacks (breaks cloak), multiple incoming projectiles (4+ breaks cloak), AoE (best counter, if you know how to use it), Curse & Magicka Detonation and the good old detection potion...
Charge requires a target. Kind of difficult to target a stealthed NB. I guess archers can shoot random arrows all over the place and hope. As for AoE, yes it works if you guess correctly. Personally, I will use caltrops if I'm out of detect pots. But, the AoE skills have a magika/stamina cost which puts you at a disadvantage when the NB decides to reengage (usually with an uppercut from stealth).Also, can you tell me how a sorcerer is not "completely controlling an engagement", given that he is able to blink away from danger in a heartbeat?
If only there was a potion that "silenced" the sorc and made his BoL/Streak fail upon casting /sarcasm
I'm of the opinion that infinite bolt escapes are also silly. ZOS agreed at one point and tried to make them non-spamable. That didn't really work - at least not for 90%+ of the sorcs out there who can easily cast them continuously without any serious loss of mana.
I will say though that at least with sorcs you know they aren't going to suddenly attack you from stealth after escaping. They can disengage easily - but they can't then reengage at any time of their choosing.
Blink away, blink back in. You can easily re-engage a fight as a sorcerer, and you have the added benefit of 20k shields and way higher (and more reliable) out of stealth burst than a NB.Edited by DDuke on 28 June 2015 01:060 -
Talcyndl✭✭✭✭✭Blink away, blink back in. You can easily re-engage a fight as a sorcerer, and you have the added benefit of 20k shields and way higher (and more reliable) out of stealth burst than a NB.
I don't disagree that sorcs ability to spam bolt escape is annoying. ZOS should revisit it's prior attempt to fix that aspect. But the difference is that the sorc remains visible and engageable if they stay in range. If they fully run away, you know and can simply move on.
The NB is unique in having a spamable in-combat stealth skill. And the ability to abuse that is why every other MMO puts such in-combat stealth skills on timers.Tal'gro Bol
PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/0 -
Poxheart✭✭✭✭✭Last week I had a really good 1v1 against a nightblade that ended in a draw because neither of us could get the upper hand. During the fight I used 3 detect pots, but he was able to gain enough separation so that he could cloak & reset the fight. This isn't the first time I've had fights like this, just the most recent. In my experience, detect pots are only a death sentence for bad nightblades; good nightblades know how to adapt.
Good for you, throwing those veiled insults around.
Similarly, I could say that good nightblades know where to find other cloaked NBs (especially while using a detection potion), and know how to not let them "gain enough separation", while bad NBs are probably oblivious to these techniques and allow the other NB to reset the fight.
Go figure...
At the time I was playing a DK, but it is telling that you took exception to my comment...
So you couldn't kill a NB as a DK, even while using detection pots and he actually managed to gain distance and restealth against you?
Wow, it's worse than I thought
I get that you're trying to insult me, but you're really insulting yourself. But to answer your question: yes, the NB I fought was that good that he could separate & restealth even when I had a detect pot up.
Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.
Pox Dragon Knight
Poxheart Nightblade
The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
Knights of the WhiteWolf0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Last week I had a really good 1v1 against a nightblade that ended in a draw because neither of us could get the upper hand. During the fight I used 3 detect pots, but he was able to gain enough separation so that he could cloak & reset the fight. This isn't the first time I've had fights like this, just the most recent. In my experience, detect pots are only a death sentence for bad nightblades; good nightblades know how to adapt.
Good for you, throwing those veiled insults around.
Similarly, I could say that good nightblades know where to find other cloaked NBs (especially while using a detection potion), and know how to not let them "gain enough separation", while bad NBs are probably oblivious to these techniques and allow the other NB to reset the fight.
Go figure...
At the time I was playing a DK, but it is telling that you took exception to my comment...
So you couldn't kill a NB as a DK, even while using detection pots and he actually managed to gain distance and restealth against you?
Wow, it's worse than I thought
I get that you're trying to insult me, but you're really insulting yourself. But to answer your question: yes, the NB I fought was that good that he could separate & restealth even when I had a detect pot up.
I've fought some nightBLADES that could do that as well, just haul ass when stealthed like thathttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
i have no issues finding nightblades this is a l2p issue they need to make each person take responsibility for their own detection tho and make it individualized and not a 1 guy see nightblade everyone see nightblade.2
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Dudis✭✭✭Last week I had a really good 1v1 against a nightblade that ended in a draw because neither of us could get the upper hand. During the fight I used 3 detect pots, but he was able to gain enough separation so that he could cloak & reset the fight. This isn't the first time I've had fights like this, just the most recent. In my experience, detect pots are only a death sentence for bad nightblades; good nightblades know how to adapt.
Everyone seems to be thinking in terms of 1v1, that's not the issue here...
My biggest problem is that it gives vision to EVERYONE meaning if one person pops a detection pot, i'll most likely be zerged down in a 1vX scenario.
I'm a solo player but not a dueler, sure i appreciate a good 1v1 but that's not what i go out looking for in pvp. I like to follow the enemy zerg or other groupls of players and pick people off on the flanks or kiting a group of them off to the side to even the numbers a bit.
If one person pops a pot, i'll be charged by 5-10 guys and in the few cases i don't instantly die to that, there's usually no way for me to escape anyways unless i can really abuse the terain and teleport up a cliff or something, using my ghost.
Like i've said multiple times now, make the detection pot only affect the person using it...
For the record, I'm not going with some snipe-oneshot build or anything like that. I'm magicka.Edited by Dudis on 28 June 2015 10:330 -
kevlarto_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Invis pots are everyone's friends and cannot be seen by detect pots, Detect pots only work on the standard stealth state not the invis state. I have had people vanish in front of me, take a detect pot nothing there, they either cloaked or took and invis pot, most things in this game has some counter, the only thing that does not is invis, that's a get out of jail free card and everyone access to it, of course if your in the middle of a huge enemy crowd and all dotted up invis pots may not work that well and maybe that's is the counter to them after all.0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »When someone uses a detect pot there is quite an obvious tell any good NB should be able to read. Other than the potion effect on the hostile player, your stealth eye will never close completely and remain a sliver opened. At that point you can stop rolling and mashing cloak and turn and fight.
Turn and fight... right, where did I put my dmg shield -oh wait nevermind.
Ok, maybe I should hold block and spam heal- ah right, no heals apart from the 2-3k HPS from Vigor.
Well then, I'll just block & tank everything like these block bros. Woops, out of stamina & taking tons of damage since I'm not build towards tanking.
Last option: instagib opponent somehow, or just die quicker so I can respawn faster.
Doesn't really sound ideal to me.
Also, detection potion does not have any tell, apart from someone clearly hitting you while you're stealthed (no, the eye does not open until you get hit by the attacks).
It does, as soon as someone uses one your eye opens some if you are stealthed. If they aren't stealthed you will see a swirling effect around their legs when they pop it. Good NBs can stand and fight, and they do it all the time. You can find your damage shield in the undaunted line.
If you are sneaking you mean?
There is no indication you are being detected while cloaked.
Also, swirling effect comes from CC immunity potions as well.
As for your undaunted dmg shield... you do know it only works against physical damage, right?
Nor should every player be forced to use dmg shields, which is why we have skills like cloak for alternative ways of avoiding damage. That is good for build diversity in game as well.
If anything, this game needs more alternative ways of defending yourself and no magic potions that make these skills useless (or alternatively, they could make magic potions that make dmg shields, blocking, dodging & BoL/Streak useless, in order to balance it).
There is also a magicka shield in the light armor line, absorb magicka, use both or take your pick? I don't know why you don't get an indication of detect pots being used in the area but when I am stealthed if some hostile in the raidius uses one my eye cracks to where I know there is someone looking.
Honestly, I don't think they should try and balance the game around one ganking build when there are already many useful NB builds that accomplish various goals. I'm a STA DK atm, in 1 v 1s I know I'm going to lose 90% of the time, it's a group utility build I run because it works for the group. You have your build, maybe you are set up for ganking singles and vanishing, and I get you being upset if you don't get a 1 shot and your target pops a detect and turns the table on you but can't you accept that as a cost of playing a build with no staying power who relies 100% on cloak if you don't instagib?
Yes, there is a magicka shield in Light Armour skill line, that absorbs magic damage only.
You want to know how much it absorbs for, if you are playing a stamina build? It absorbs for 6k magic damage (so most likely not even one skill, let alone rotation). If you are slotting such skills, I can understand why you lose 90% of your 1v1s.
If you would indulge me, what exactly do you think is a balanced damage shield. You made it quite clear that you despise damage shields and think in particular that hardened ward and healing ward are too strong. Yet the other damage shields in the game, you scoff at as being legitimate defenses. If a shield cannot survive more than one rotation is in your estimation trash that will cause people to lose fights, yet one that can sustain more that one rotation is OP, well, what is Zenimax to do?
It's a combination of many, many broken things really.
I'm just as (well ok, maybe slightly less) disgusted by the <0,1 second TTK in this game as I am with infinite resources & 20k dmg shields, or 90% dmg mitigation combined with infinite CC immunity..
As for what Zenimax should do, I have a list of things but I'll try to condense it:- Give everyone a lot more health (readjusting abilities that scale off your health accordingly)
- Make offensive abilities slightly stronger than defensive ones (means nerfing certain dmg shields), or make defensive abilities consume significantly more resources or give them a short cooldown (or bolt escape treatment)
- Remove infinite resources
- Make block directional
- Give roll dodge a short cooldown
- Make stealth detection gradual, rather than instant
- Make it impossible to have over 40% resistances, without building to be a tank
All of those, in totality, might work. Who know, maybe with the next update and promises of new viable gear selection, we will see more eye yo eye
I could live with all of these except:
[*] Make it impossible to have over 40% resistances, without building to be a tank
I think that is a bad idea. I like that you have to balance mitigation and damage more now. Otherwise you end up with super tank DK's that can deal a lot of damage.Playing since beta...0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Last week I had a really good 1v1 against a nightblade that ended in a draw because neither of us could get the upper hand. During the fight I used 3 detect pots, but he was able to gain enough separation so that he could cloak & reset the fight. This isn't the first time I've had fights like this, just the most recent. In my experience, detect pots are only a death sentence for bad nightblades; good nightblades know how to adapt.
Good for you, throwing those veiled insults around.
Similarly, I could say that good nightblades know where to find other cloaked NBs (especially while using a detection potion), and know how to not let them "gain enough separation", while bad NBs are probably oblivious to these techniques and allow the other NB to reset the fight.
Go figure...
At the time I was playing a DK, but it is telling that you took exception to my comment...
So you couldn't kill a NB as a DK, even while using detection pots and he actually managed to gain distance and restealth against you?
Wow, it's worse than I thought
I get that you're trying to insult me, but you're really insulting yourself. But to answer your question: yes, the NB I fought was that good that he could separate & restealth even when I had a detect pot up.
In an open field, yes the DK gets the advantage with detection pots if using a ranged weapon. If the Nightblade has "features" that can be hid behind like big rocks and walls to break line of sight then the Nightblade has a chance to get away and reset.Playing since beta...0
