Best pvp burst damage?

ItsRejectz · May 2015

Soulac wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stamina nb with dw will outburst a magicka sorc anytime, because they dont have to wait for a 3.5 sec explotion or a lucky 35% procc or 1.5 sec cast time.

If everything would be the same it'd be kinda boring, wouldn't it?
Right, a stamina NB is able to get higher burst than you but is not able to shield himself and needs to go in melee range.
Every class got advantages and disadvantages or do you want to whine about not being as tanky as a DK as well?

Not whining, at all. Just stating a fact. Yea sorcs got shields, but stamina nb got dodge, I guess this is where you tell me sorcs got dodge too, but if you dodge too much as a sorc you are hereby known as dumb because your stamina would be gone after 2-3 rolls and its smarter to reapply hardward. If I had the stamina and dodge cost reduction of a stamina nb, id much rather dodge then shieldup.
Every class has disadvantages and advantages, the stam nbs biggest advantage is having the (potentially) highest burst in this game, by far.

If they change nirnhoned as planned your burst will go up as sorc, isn't it something?

Im not complaining about my own burst, as a sorc, just stating the fact that stam nbs can have it quite abit higher. I still havent met anyone of any class that I cannot kill, nirnhoned or not. I dont believe in whining, just saying whats true, and the fact that nbs can outburst a sorc is true, and thats not saying the sorc will automaticly loose either, sorcs can mitigate alot, nbs can dodge alot, in the end the balance atm is fine(open combat), atleast when talking about nb vs sorc. DK and Temp on the other hand, are abit behind, atleast in my experience.

Sure, Templar and DK need a little push, but nothing needs a real nerf in my opinion.

This a million times over.. Instead of nerfing things, they need to buff other skills/classes. At least this way it also wouldn't effect the PvE lot in a negative way

Varicite · May 2015

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

jybgess wrote: »

Cant any class use a bow, go stealth, Camo Hunter, Snipe???? I'm not being a smart ass. I just started playing not long ago. What makes a NB better?

Nothing makes a nb better at sniping, people just have it set in their mind that we are the only ones that can do it. Someone snipe->meteors you and your dead no matter what class your fighting. We can maintain snipe spam better I suppose and we can follow it up with a faster gap closer, but its all mental. Its like our only valid play style so you see a lot more of it from nbs then from other classes.

In the days when Sorc and DK had access to higher weapon damage than other classes and 2h Momentum buff could not apply to other weapons, this might have actually been true.

But it's not anymore. NB is the best at opening from stealth.

Chikenuget · May 2015

twistedmonk wrote: »

Honestly, I dont think magic NB has any burst.

The most I've seen is people using magicka detonation. Basically cast the proximity detonation morph on yourself and teleport to the guy and then it will go off, then finish him off with fear/meteor. and it's all AoE dmg

entropy (for 20% spell buff for 12 second)->dark cloak->proximity detonation->teleport strike->fear->meteor = usually dead...maybe sometimes. usually not

That's a lot of work compared to stamina nightblade..

pre-buff with rally IV for 20% dmg bonus for 33 seconds.

heavy attack from stealth->surprise attack = dead

ambush->surprise attack = dead

ambush->fear->wrecking blow = dead

ambush->fear->wrecking blow->executioner = dead

crit rush->fear->wrecking blow = dead

sometimes just wrecking blow or heavy attack = dead. I've seen 22k wrecking blows....18k heavy attacks from stealth are common

Here's the reason - it's the synergies of nightblade + 2hander.

2-hander rally gives 20% weapon dmg for 33 seconds at rank 4
ambush and wrecking blow both give empower for 20% dmg on next attack

so that's 40% weapon damage right there that's easy and constant to keep up. I mean wrecking blow buffs itself - it used to be 20% bonus damage on next attack but only if it wasn't another wrecking blow, but they removed that. Now you can just spam wrecking blow and keep empower buff up constantly on each hit. and if you have executioner on your bar - if your health drops below 20%, you get another 15% damage bonus for a total of 55% (20% rally buff + 20% empower + 15% low health). which is why on the addon summary, you may only have 4k health, but wrecking blow might hit you for 22k overkill if it crits.

then nightblade 10% dmg from stealth/invisibilty (if khajit/bosmer that's 20% with their racials)

Medium armor gives 12% weapon damage for wearing 5 pieces.

add in the champion pts for increased weapon damage, critical hit damage, etc.

bonus weapon damage from set pieces

all of this stacks which is insane.

and it's pretty easy to see why we have a broken PvP system with 1-2 shot kills....

In summary:

weapon buffs : 57% = 12% (medium armor) + 20% (rally) + 20% (empower from either teleport strike or wrecking blow) + 5% (2-hand sword)

if from stealth: add another 10% (20% if khajit/bosmer)

if a follow up from 2-hander heavy attack, add 10% to next attack

also, nightblades have a bonus critical hit chance and 10% bonus critical hit damage and 30% stamina regeneration.

edit: also you can add some fighter guild passives here for more weapon damage - flawless dawnbreaker

Merciless resolve can crit pretty hard. I've hit 14k on it, followed up by any other damage I'd like, swallow soul, concealed, TP strike.

Chikenuget · May 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Wrecking Blow and Crystal Frags have the exact same damage coefficient. You also shouldn't compare stealth attacks with non stealth attacks. At lvl41 Wrecking Blow does not hit for 17K without a stealth attack.

Exact same damage coefficient yet I have greater ways to increase my damage *and* guarantee a crit with the best crit damage bonuses in the game, plus there is the simple fact that it is possible to get over 4K weapon damage any not anywhere close to that in spellpower.

Let's not play this game of stupidity

Lol you think WB is so reliable...

Just pigeonholing yourself, you can watch Kerviz do the same thing all day if you like that type of play.

Forestd16b14_ESO · May 2015

Zos really needs to balanced defeance and DPS.

Ezareth · May 2015

Chikenuget wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Wrecking Blow and Crystal Frags have the exact same damage coefficient. You also shouldn't compare stealth attacks with non stealth attacks. At lvl41 Wrecking Blow does not hit for 17K without a stealth attack.

Exact same damage coefficient yet I have greater ways to increase my damage *and* guarantee a crit with the best crit damage bonuses in the game, plus there is the simple fact that it is possible to get over 4K weapon damage any not anywhere close to that in spellpower.

Let's not play this game of stupidity

Lol you think WB is so reliable...

Just pigeonholing yourself, you can watch Kerviz do the same thing all day if you like that type of play.

I don't play the stealth-instagib style of play, I find that boring. I prefer to play the 1vX style of play. Kerviz runs after every gank. I may do a stealth opener to help even the odds when out numbered but I'm not going to go retreating back to the shadows like some pansy ganker.

Wrecking blow is pretty ridiculous damage right now and it's extremely easy to land...especially after fear.

ItsRejectz · May 2015

End of the day when you have a class that receives such big buffs from being in stealth, it only makes sense to take advantage of that. I don't understand this negative mentality players seem to have in regards to NB's staying in stealth and "ganking" as they call it. Its obvious they were designed with that style of play in mind, hence the reason for the stealth buffs and being the only class with no shields.

So many people complain about how Kerviz plays, saying ganking and it's lame.. But I see it the opposite way, I think it's a smart way to play to make the most out of the NB's buffs and utility. Plus, if people are so annoyed about getting killed like that, a simple solution is put on Raident light which removes the stealth damage buff when a NB gets close

k2blader · May 2015

ItsRejectz wrote: »

End of the day when you have a class that receives such big buffs from being in stealth, it only makes sense to take advantage of that. I don't understand this negative mentality players seem to have in regards to NB's staying in stealth and "ganking" as they call it. Its obvious they were designed with that style of play in mind, hence the reason for the stealth buffs and being the only class with no shields.

You don't understand why there's a negative mentality against basically insta-killing people off their horses, or while they're on siege, when they don't have any chance to fight back? That's not PvP or skill-- that's why.

Also, Zeni "designed" NBs to gank, i.e. insta-kill folks after pressing a couple buttons, as much as they "designed" any other class to gank. If you adhere to a gank playstyle that's all on you, it has nothing to do with "design."

ItsRejectz · May 2015

k2blader wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

End of the day when you have a class that receives such big buffs from being in stealth, it only makes sense to take advantage of that. I don't understand this negative mentality players seem to have in regards to NB's staying in stealth and "ganking" as they call it. Its obvious they were designed with that style of play in mind, hence the reason for the stealth buffs and being the only class with no shields.

You don't understand why there's a negative mentality against basically insta-killing people off their horses, or while they're on siege, when they don't have any chance to fight back? That's not PvP or skill-- that's why.

Also, Zeni "designed" NBs to gank, i.e. insta-kill folks after pressing a couple buttons, as much as they "designed" any other class to gank. If you adhere to a gank playstyle that's all on you, it has nothing to do with "design."

Well there's a simple solution get of there friggin horse when there in areas with enemy's. Sorry but the only reason people get ganked half of the time is because they're oblivious to there surroundings.
And I'm sorry, but totally disagree with you. The lack of shields and the buffs a NB receives for attack from stealth, clearly show attacking players from stealth was intended.

AngersRevenge · May 2015

ItsRejectz wrote: »

So many people complain about how Kerviz plays, saying ganking and it's lame..

Ganking, or being a sneaky assassin, or selective targeting, whatever you want to call it, isn't that in the name of the class Nightblade. It's a stealthy burst damage class archtype.

A rogue, an assassin, etc. It's not a Dragon knight, whose name implies balls to the wall charging into comabat. Or, a Sorcerer whose archtype is a spell slinger. Ganking or whatever you want to call it is the archtype of a rogue'ish type class. It's in the name.

Plus, it's a good strategy for group play. I do it all the time. Sneak around the back of the zerg and pick off the siege engineers or ranged dps'rs. I have even stealthed into the zerg to take out a healer or 2. Makes life much easier for the guys who are holding the line.

ItsRejectz · May 2015

AngersRevenge wrote: »

ItsRejectz wrote: »

So many people complain about how Kerviz plays, saying ganking and it's lame..

Ganking, or being a sneaky assassin, or selective targeting, whatever you want to call it, isn't that in the name of the class Nightblade. It's a stealthy burst damage class archtype.

A rogue, an assassin, etc. It's not a Dragon knight, whose name implies balls to the wall charging into comabat. Or, a Sorcerer whose archtype is a spell slinger. Ganking or whatever you want to call it is the archtype of a rogue'ish type class. It's in the name.

Plus, it's a good strategy for group play. I do it all the time. Sneak around the back of the zerg and pick off the siege engineers or ranged dps'rs. I have even stealthed into the zerg to take out a healer or 2. Makes life much easier for the guys who are holding the line.

I totally agree... I find it amusing hearing all these people complain about NB's fighting from stealth, when the majority of their skills and passives are buffed from being in stealth. For some reason they expect the rouge style class, the only class without a class based shield, to face roll into groups.
Why should a NB gimp themselves and not make the most of their damage possibilities, just to stop people complaining.

Plus it's not like stealth is hard to break..There are potions, skills, AOE's that break it easy.

Kypho · May 2015

pppontus wrote: »

NB, bow, stealth. Snipe + camo hunter, pew pew. Plus: no skill required.

You play That then i guess. Skill ín rpg.... You Are ***

cosack_falx · May 2015

i use this combo as nb tw and dw, as tw in pvp i open rally then from stealth with ambush, then roll dodge back -> crit rush->w blow > fear > wb and ulti is s star or inc strike

Varicite · May 2015

cosack_falx wrote: »

i use this combo as nb tw and dw, as tw in pvp i open rally then from stealth with ambush, then roll dodge back -> crit rush->w blow > fear > wb and ulti is s star or inc strike

Wow, you don't see too many people using both Ambush AND Crit Rush. <.<

cosack_falx · May 2015

"wow" is in the good meaning or bad?

)

Tankqull · May 2015

Varicite wrote: »

cosack_falx wrote: »

i use this combo as nb tw and dw, as tw in pvp i open rally then from stealth with ambush, then roll dodge back -> crit rush->w blow > fear > wb and ulti is s star or inc strike

Wow, you don't see too many people using both Ambush AND Crit Rush. <.<

use both on my NB too as crit charge deals more dmg to blinking sorcs, and lacks the casting time enablinbg them to break LOS.

Varicite · May 2015

cosack_falx wrote: »

"wow" is in the good meaning or bad? )

Neither, lol. Just surprised, as most opt to use one or the other to save bar space.

Tankqull wrote: »

use both on my NB too as crit charge deals more dmg to blinking sorcs, and lacks the casting time enablinbg them to break LOS.

I've considered doing this, but I generally decide against it as having 2 gap closers that provide nearly the same functionality seems frivolous when there are plenty of other great contenders for slots on my bars.

Absolutely not knocking it, though, that Empower buff is really nice, especially since I dropped WB from my bars a long time ago.

I picked Crit Charge, personally, because of the reasons that you stated and it's also about 20% cheaper than Ambush. : )

cosack_falx · May 2015

so what do u suggest to put instead of c rush? surprise atack or prox detonation after rally?

Varicite · May 2015

cosack_falx wrote: »

so what do u suggest to put instead of c rush? surprise atack or prox detonation after rally?

Oh no, do what works for you, I really wasn't trying to criticize at all and apologize if it came across that way. : o

Tankqull · May 2015

as i´m using DW/2h on my NB i´m a bit out of contenders

Varicite · May 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

as i´m using DW/2h on my NB i´m a bit out of contenders

I use 2H / DW on my main stamblade too. : D

I do have a flex slot that I have Deadly Cloak in, though (it's mostly my AoE bar). I could probably put Ambush there, especially since I have Siphoning Attacks on that bar.

I actually run Vigor instead of Retreating Maneuver most of the time when I'm running in a group, but I like Maneuvers when solo to get away and reset fights.

cosack_falx · May 2015

no prob..no need to apologize...i wanted to learn from some of your opinions, ty for responding me :P

Derra · May 2015

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stamina nb with dw will outburst a magicka sorc anytime, because they dont have to wait for a 3.5 sec explotion or a lucky 35% procc or 1.5 sec cast time.

If everything would be the same it'd be kinda boring, wouldn't it?
Right, a stamina NB is able to get higher burst than you but is not able to shield himself and needs to go in melee range.
Every class got advantages and disadvantages or do you want to whine about not being as tanky as a DK as well?

Not whining, at all. Just stating a fact. Yea sorcs got shields, but stamina nb got dodge, I guess this is where you tell me sorcs got dodge too, but if you dodge too much as a sorc you are hereby known as dumb because your stamina would be gone after 2-3 rolls and its smarter to reapply hardward. If I had the stamina and dodge cost reduction of a stamina nb, id much rather dodge then shieldup.
Every class has disadvantages and advantages, the stam nbs biggest advantage is having the (potentially) highest burst in this game, by far.

If they change nirnhoned as planned your burst will go up as sorc, isn't it something?

Im not complaining about my own burst, as a sorc, just stating the fact that stam nbs can have it quite abit higher. I still havent met anyone of any class that I cannot kill, nirnhoned or not. I dont believe in whining, just saying whats true, and the fact that nbs can outburst a sorc is true, and thats not saying the sorc will automaticly loose either, sorcs can mitigate alot, nbs can dodge alot, in the end the balance atm is fine(open combat), atleast when talking about nb vs sorc. DK and Temp on the other hand, are abit behind, atleast in my experience.

Sure, Templar and DK need a little push, but nothing needs a real nerf in my opinion.

This a million times over.. Instead of nerfing things, they need to buff other skills/classes. At least this way it also wouldn't effect the PvE lot in a negative way

I´d like to see nirnhoned adressed or a similar option to mitigate physical dmg introduced. Also i think the cp system needs a physical dmg reduction passive. Apart from these two i can agree with these statements.

defilade__ESO · June 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

jybgess wrote: »

Cant any class use a bow, go stealth, Camo Hunter, Snipe???? I'm not being a smart ass. I just started playing not long ago. What makes a NB better?

Nothing makes a nb better at sniping, people just have it set in their mind that we are the only ones that can do it. Someone snipe->meteors you and your dead no matter what class your fighting. We can maintain snipe spam better I suppose and we can follow it up with a faster gap closer, but its all mental. Its like our only valid play style so you see a lot more of it from nbs then from other classes.

Ohh you mean nothing like this?

Increases Weapon and Spell Damage while invisible or stealthed by 10%.

Successful stealthed attacks stun for 100% longer.

Increases bonus Critical Strike damage by 10%.

A successful critical hit gives nearby Minor Savagery, increasing Weapon Critical Strike rating by 629 for 20 seconds.

Relentless Focus - Also grants Minor Berserk, and Minor Endurance, increasing your damage by 8% and Stamina Regeneration by 10%.
Mark Target - Expose an enemy’s weaknesses to afflict them with Major Fracture and Major Breach, reducing Armor and Spell resistance by 5120 for 27 seconds.

No class has anything similar to the NB class when it comes to stealth attacks.

All true, The burst damage king is the NB.

However, the NB suffers out in open field combat, they die pretty fast if they try to go toe-to-toe... which is why they go invisible and run away if you catch them. LOL

noobfury · June 2015

It's not so much about Rogues hitting from stealth , actually there are a lot of gankers that play other classes. It's about the fact that there isn't any mitigation or defense that leaves much of a chance to fight back in most cases because the damage in this game is to high for the defense.

The way I see it is if someone running a tanky defense type of build can be practically one shot , or five shot in less than two seconds for that matter , then there is clearly an issue with the game . Let alone someone that is suppose to be squishy wearing cloth.

Rogues are suppose to hit from stealth but being able to shut someone down in a matter of a few seconds or less isn't pvp .

I don't mind dealing with gankers , it's part of any open pvp game but being made helpless without a choice isn't fun for anybody , unless your a sadist.

defilade__ESO · June 2015

noobfury wrote: »

It's not so much about Rogues hitting from stealth , actually there are a lot of gankers that play other classes. It's about the fact that there isn't any mitigation or defense that leaves much of a chance to fight back in most cases because the damage in this game is to high for the defense.

The way I see it is if someone running a tanky defense type of build can be practically one shot , or five shot in less than two seconds for that matter , then there is clearly an issue with the game . Let alone someone that is suppose to be squishy wearing cloth.

Rogues are suppose to hit from stealth but being able to shut someone down in a matter of a few seconds or less isn't pvp.

I don't mind dealing with gankers , it's part of any open pvp game but being made helpless without a choice isn't fun for anybody , unless your a sadist.

Every class except nightblades has a damage shield, and some builds can spam so many shields, that even with the high damage output you are seeing, these players can survive six people beating on them for a very long time.

So on the one hand we have insanely high burst damage where players can die in less than two seconds, and on the other hand we cannot do enough damage to take down builds with shields, so this game is upside down at times.

Minnesinger · June 2015

This game made something very silly by combining very high burst damage with stealth. Encouraging as it is we "see" players being insta killed and have no time to react. On top of this high damage they made nbs able to leave the spot in stealth. I respect some of these players and have a nb myself but I can´t say the balance is accomplished. 30k dps is a bit high in pvp.