filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

pkb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Yesterday i duelled a v2 sorc... i had no chance killing him. Sure he didnt get me down either, but that just not ok.

Against a vr14 sorc who knows only a little how to duell i dont stand a chance.
I am a good dueller, not one of the best, but quite experienced. I kill most of 2h NBs and most Dks but Sorcs...
Sorcs are OP at least for a magicka Templar. Thats not ok! Nerf sorcs or buff templar!

Just keep eclipse on him and laugh as he does nothing. Depending on your build a healing templar is never going to kill a Sorc. You just don't have the damage potential and Jesus beam isn't going to kill anyone using a damage shield unless they're knocked down and out of stam.

I don't know of a Templar who can kill me 1 v 1 right now but I know many whom I can't kill either. I even know of one that can permanently heal my damage and another sorc all day long and not run out of magicka. I'm fine with that.....I'm not complaining because they're powerful healers and I can't kill them when played by skilled players.

Basically right, but as a Templar I will say this approach is not indefinitely sustainable. The main thing working against the templar is that she has no room for error. If the sorc makes a bad decision or a mistake against a Templar, he can bolt escape away before the templar can burst them down and reset the encounter so to speak. If the sorc wants to quit the encounter because they are bored, he can. When the Templar makes a mistake, she has no recourse to quit/reset the battle and has to contend with a class that actually has burst damage to get a kill.

The other problem with the Eclipse skill is that while it does shut down a sorc's offense if they don't break it, they are granted CC immunity despite *not* being CCed. Which basically means they need not worry about another eclipse or any other form of CC for that matter. Also what absolutely infuriates me, and perhaps it is only me as I don't hear anyone else complain about it, is that Eclipse does *nothing* - repeat nothing - if the target is holding block or is CC immune. In a game where the TTK is ridiculously low, losing action trying to cast a crucial defensive skill is, IMHO, intolerable.

I don't really mind the pressure that I am a Templar am put under in a duel Vs. a sorc. The class is designed to handle itself being immobile whereas Sorc's need the mobility. I accept that. What I would like to make this matchup more palatable are:

• Class skills that are reliable to use. Toppling charge is the most obvious culprit here. But I put Eclipse here as well, even after the "fix" that was put in. I want the confidence that something, ideally beneficial, will happen if I press the button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.
• Class skills that follow the basic mechanics in the game. If there is a weaker "hard" CC effect than the final hit of biting jabs, I'd like to know what it is. CC immunity is perhaps the most powerful effect a player can have in Cyrodiil and it *really* bother me that I hand it out like free candy when I use my bread and butter DPS skill. The solution to the perma-stun biting jabs problem was so obviously simple, IMHO it is an indictment of the ZoS development team that they not only were incapable of finding it, but also refuse to implement it after they have been told by every templar, and a fair number of non-templars. Either remove to so-called stun effect from biting jabs completely or have it actually stun the opponent in the manner of other damaging skills with a knockdown/stun effect in the game. I'd also throw in Eclipse here as well. It also grants CC immunity to opponents without incapacitating them and no other skill in the game has nothing happen when pressing a button. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be.
• Skills that lent themselves to some sort of synergy. I am of the belief that many of the Templar skills are good on paper when viewed in isolation, but do not mesh very well together. Our best attack skills put us in close range...but we want to wear light armor because we rely on magicka to survive and the class has no built in mechanic for sustain...but if we raise our magicka pool high then our shields suck. I'd imagine stamina templars have it easier here as weapons and the extra survivability open up more options. This has nothing to do with how powerful sorcs are perceived to be

If sorcs are perceived to be too strong, I think that has more to do with the overall weakness of the other magicka-based classes are at. NBs probably do the best of the others if only because they have the option to cloak that sometimes enables them to survive in a low TTK environment and opens up options of attack not available to DKs and Templars. But that they aren't morphing the ambush skill (again, ridiculous) and also seem to have some skills not reliably function (cloak, even if overstated, and also cripple doesn't seem to work vs shields), point to a problem that goes beyond the easy and misleading answer that sorcs are OP.

Is that a recent change to Eclipse? Because unless I break eclipse a templar has always been able to keep me eclipsed 100% of the time. There is no immunity given by eclipse and if you break free, well that isn't really "free" it's trading a small chunk of your magicka for a large chunk of their stamina pool. I'm also pretty sure you can't block eclipse because every time I try that against eclipse spammers it never works. Worst case is it drains me out of stamina and forces me to stop attacking so I can break free, giving you a chance to heal up etc.

If you can continually force me to spend my stamina from max range I'm never going to kill you in that short break free immunity window and unless the sorc you're fighting is running a full regen build like me you're going to run him out of stamina and thus be able to use a CC to knock him down and finish him.

That said I think Templar jabs need fixed/buffed, but the BS that was permastunning someone with jabs spam needs to stay dead. I think if Templar offensive capability is buffed too much their latent defensive capability will make them too powerful. I cerainly support some small tweaks to their offensive capabilities as they stand currently.

So you haven't pvp'd in a while and you are claiming to know the current state of the balancing act? Eclipse once broken gives the caster about 10 seconds of immunity from any disabling affects, Eclipse included. So When I put Eclipse on a caster he just sits there with his crapload shield and surrounds himself with mines and waits for the bubble to pop then he starts attacking me again. If I survive the 10 second attack then I get to cast Eclipse again. Meanwhile I cannot hit him with a ranged attack nor can I break through the shield and if I break through the shield then he just recasts it. Yes Eclipse helps to deal with Sorcs a lot but it does not fix the problem everyone is having against them at all.

It's 8 seconds actually, and only when Eclipse is actually broken.

I PvP every single day. I don't however test every single mechanic of every ability in the game because ZoS loves to make stealth changes and not mention them in the patch notes.

As of at least 2.0.5 a templar could keep you permanently eclipsed unless you break free or were given CC immunity from breakfree or another ability. Eclipse doesn't give CC immunity (or it didn't) which is why I asked if that was a recent change.

I thought break free was 8 seconds but people are saying it is 5 seconds. I need to test this again to see which it is, but either way Eclipse is an amazing stamina drain for sorcs.

its definatly not changed - was chain total darked for nearly a minute thx to a bug not leaving stealth wich results in no stam to break free.

Well IDK what to say because I play a Templar and total dark is my favorite ability and I can never recast it on the same target once it goes down. If you want we can test it I'm in EP on Chilrend and Azura with him right now. Send me a pm with your name and ill add you as friend.

I was just watching some of my footage of a templar chain casting this on me. The break free is definitely 8 seconds and im not granted immunity (Black wisps floating around you) if I don't break free.

yeah its always been that way, how do templars who use this ability not know there own class?

Ok I just tested it and if the sorc uses break free then he gets an immunity from it. If the sorc uses purge or waits for it to end then it can immediately be recast. Must be a lot of sorcs using immunity abilities because I have never noticed that it happens like this.

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

This poll is just a l2p issue for the OP I guess.

50% Of the playerbase disagrees with you and agrees with me. Maybe its a L2P issue for yourself since you haven't found that place where sorcs are too strong.

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Erondil. 778336 wrote:

This poll is just a l2p issue for the OP I guess.

50% Of the playerbase disagrees with you and agrees with me. Maybe its a L2P issue for yourself since you haven't found that place where sorcs are too strong.

50% of the player base don't even use the forums. All we have here are a very vocal minority that prefer to yell for nerfs instead of learning their class and other classes.

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

So do you think sorcs are too strong as they are?

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

No more shield stacking! I have seen someone else suggest that it gets the major/minor treatment so its no longer possible to quadruple your hp. Its a perfect idea really and while we are at it ttk is too fast, put a cap on spell/weapon power so we no longer see so many 1 shot builds. Soon as sorcs get brought in line this game will have perfect balance. Right now everything is counter able except bolt escape and shield spamming, both problems belong to one class. CHOP CHOP zenimax I am losing patience.

To my stamina build brethren i know its damn near impossible to kill a sorc, but i managed it today(in fact i managed it on the same sorc 3 times in a row). Sneak up behind one and uppercut them 3 times in a row and you will KO them every time(at least with my build). Trickiest part is getting behind one, but they are usually too busy spamming shields to bother turning around so use that to your advantage. If its possible try waiting till they drop a shield(you may have to wait a few minutes because most are very busy keeping them all stacked). First uppercut launches them, second you land on them before they can cc break, and then the third you land before they bolt (depending on how tryhard they are you might not need a third uppercut). ITS FLAWLESS! If by some miracle it takes 4 uppercuts, run, hes probably emperor.

Jar_Ek wrote: »

I play a stamina sorcerer and I feel very underpowered.

Xael wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

So do you think sorcs are too strong as they are?

No.
I think player opinion, player whining, player ignorance, and player entitlement are too strong.