What do you think about sorcs.

ToRelax · April 2015

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Just to speak for myself, but I'm a NB caster/offensive support/off-healer. Mark Target for resist debuff and keeping Stam NBs from escaping + Crippling Grasp is a large part of my role, debuffing and rooting enemies for my higher damage allies to more easily dispense with. Admittedly, it's damage is poor but I'm sticking with it while I wait for Zeni to buff DoTs

Nice, none of them are affected by BOL are they?

It's just I keep hearing this theory that BOL (when it works, which isn't very often unless it's a small encounter in pvp) is so very powerful... Someone needs to figure out exactly what it works on that makes it so, then perhaps a logical argument can be made. Fact is, other than sorcerer spells (the most projectiles of any class), what other class skills does it actually counter? Templar abilities no one uses in pvp?

That is not actually true - Crystal Fragments and Overload are our only class projectiles. It just so happens that the damaging class spells we have besides that are simply not enough (Velocious Curse, Endless Fury), so we use Staffs... or reflects and Overload.
In fact, NB's Crippling Grasp and Strife are both projectiles, same for Templar's Sunfire and Dark Flare.
DK casters have an easier time with BoL, because their boosted heavy attacks can not be absorbed with it. Same for the DoTs and Lava Whip.
Templars can spam Radiant... if Target isn't low on health, that's good for Xv1...

NB can try circumventing the BoL with positioning and heavy attacks or use their melee magicka (Teleport Strike, Concealed Weapon).

Erock25 · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

This and looking at the poll, 30% of the people who play sorcs are saying they are too strong. While 75% of the people who don't play sorcs are saying they are too strong. You also have to realize that someone who plays a particular class is very unlikely to admit when they are too strong. So all the people who play sorcs yet voted that they are balanced are like a salesman who tells you to buy what they are selling cuz its the best product. And even worse is the people who believe they need to be boosted.

I find it humorous that you've spent any time around these forums for the past 2 months and you can say with a straight face that you think all of those people who answered they played sorc and they are too strong ACTUALLY play sorc main. I can guarantee half of those responses are people with a vr1 sorc or no sorc at all and are just trying everything they possibly can do to get the class nerfed (kinda like making topic after topic about it).

Xsorus · April 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

accina wrote: »

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

Also one thing the stamblade nerf is inevtiable... more and more people are using it... 3k wep dmg and 3k stam regen... higher on a bosmer

Where do you come up with this BS?
3k regen ~ 1.5k wpn dmg for a non-bosmer.

its possible on NBs thx to 30% increased stam reg via a passive + 10% stam reg by classbuff + %stam reg by tripods

I can tell you 3k weapon damage + 3k stamina regen isn't possible on a non bosmer, I can hit 2.6k with drink and such with tri pot going, but only 2.7k weapon damage, 3k would require ravager or skirmisher I'm thinking.. But that'd cut into stam recovery set bonuses

or of the air and you have both

Way of Air Weapon Damage bonus is similar to Hunding rage. So it'd be similar to what I posted...I'm basically running the equiv of Way of Air right now with my setup. You're basically looking at a Bosmer Nightblade to hit those numbers..The main problem is that is you're forced to used Drink on the Bosmer nightblade for it... Which means your Health is going to be sub 18k...

rfennell_ESO · April 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

That is not actually true - Crystal Fragments and Overload are our only class projectiles. It just so happens that the damaging class spells we have besides that are simply not enough (Velocious Curse, Endless Fury), so we use Staffs... or reflects and Overload.
In fact, NB's Crippling Grasp and Strife are both projectiles, same for Templar's Sunfire and Dark Flare.
DK casters have an easier time with BoL, because their boosted heavy attacks can not be absorbed with it. Same for the DoTs and Lava Whip.
Templars can spam Radiant... if Target isn't low on health, that's good for Xv1...
NB can try circumventing the BoL with positioning and heavy attacks or use their melee magicka (Teleport Strike, Concealed Weapon).

I didn't know about the nightblade ones being projectiles, good to know... even though 99% of nightblades now are using snipe or uppercut.

But the two "projectiles" that are sorc abilities are also our primary damage skills...

Templars, as far as I can tell don't use those spells in pvp (stupid slow moving dot + stupid slow casting and slow moving dd).

Jimboo84 · April 2015

You need your skills wisely, same against to DK's.
There's always someone stronger then you, even when they have lower HP then you.

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

So do you think sorcs are too strong as they are?

Where is the "This poll is pointless" option?

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

Sorc is the only class I absolutely have to put certain skills on my bar to handle. Its kinda sad I have to put one of my entire bars dedicated to handling sorcs and even then they only die if they mess up but never if I am too good.

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is the only class I absolutely have to put certain skills on my bar to handle. Its kinda sad I have to put one of my entire bars dedicated to handling sorcs and even then they only die if they mess up but never if I am too good.

I have to do the same for DKs because of RS. I have play differently depending on which class I'm fighting. You don't see me whining about it.

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is the only class I absolutely have to put certain skills on my bar to handle. Its kinda sad I have to put one of my entire bars dedicated to handling sorcs and even then they only die if they mess up but never if I am too good.

I have to do the same for DKs because of RS. I have play differently depending on which class I'm fighting. You don't see me whining about it.

Where are these dk's you speak of? I haven't seen any.

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is the only class I absolutely have to put certain skills on my bar to handle. Its kinda sad I have to put one of my entire bars dedicated to handling sorcs and even then they only die if they mess up but never if I am too good.

I have to do the same for DKs because of RS. I have play differently depending on which class I'm fighting. You don't see me whining about it.

Where are these dk's you speak of? I haven't seen any.

Great rebuttal. I made the mistake of thinking you were taking this seriously.

Ezareth · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Where are these dk's you speak of? I haven't seen any.

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is the only class I absolutely have to put certain skills on my bar to handle. Its kinda sad I have to put one of my entire bars dedicated to handling sorcs and even then they only die if they mess up but never if I am too good.

I have to do the same for DKs because of RS. I have play differently depending on which class I'm fighting. You don't see me whining about it.

Where are these dk's you speak of? I haven't seen any.

Great rebuttal. I made the mistake of thinking you were taking this seriously.

I constantly see Sorcs who can stand against 6 people but very very rarely do I ever see a DK do that any more. Now before 1.6 they did it all the time. So where are these DK's that scare you so badly when it only takes 3 people tops to take them down.

Ezareth · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is the only class I absolutely have to put certain skills on my bar to handle. Its kinda sad I have to put one of my entire bars dedicated to handling sorcs and even then they only die if they mess up but never if I am too good.

I have to do the same for DKs because of RS. I have play differently depending on which class I'm fighting. You don't see me whining about it.

Where are these dk's you speak of? I haven't seen any.

Great rebuttal. I made the mistake of thinking you were taking this seriously.

I constantly see Sorcs who can stand against 6 people but very very rarely do I ever see a DK do that any more. Now before 1.6 they did it all the time. So where are these DK's that scare you so badly when it only takes 3 people tops to take them down.

I think it's time for @Sypher to dust off the ole DK.

Sypher · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is the only class I absolutely have to put certain skills on my bar to handle. Its kinda sad I have to put one of my entire bars dedicated to handling sorcs and even then they only die if they mess up but never if I am too good.

I have to do the same for DKs because of RS. I have play differently depending on which class I'm fighting. You don't see me whining about it.

Where are these dk's you speak of? I haven't seen any.

Great rebuttal. I made the mistake of thinking you were taking this seriously.

I constantly see Sorcs who can stand against 6 people but very very rarely do I ever see a DK do that any more. Now before 1.6 they did it all the time. So where are these DK's that scare you so badly when it only takes 3 people tops to take them down.

I think it's time for @Sypher to dust off the ole DK.

Which I will in about 2 days. Releasing a new build DK 1vX build as well.

BOW DOWN TO YOUR PREVIOUS DEMI-GODS

TheElementalPlatypus · April 2015

Sorcerers need to stop being the victim of nerf cries. It seems all these COD acting players cant take it when they see a 15k crystal frags on their death menu and instantly say "NERF".

Believe it or not folks I've been hit with a 12k AMBUSH.... ambush people.... ambush.
Do I think sorcs could use some slight tweaking? Possibly, but truth is stamina builds can roll dodge as much as we can bolt/shield stack, they have the burst we have maybe even better, and with vigor they are JUST as sustainable as us.

Dont make the counter argument vigor is 10% of the population, its getting reduced to rank 5, lets watch magic builds be limited to ONLY sorcs in that state of the game.

BrassRazoo · April 2015

We die too quick.
Light armour sucks!

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

Sorcerers need to stop being the victim of nerf cries. It seems all these COD acting players cant take it when they see a 15k crystal frags on their death menu and instantly say "NERF".

Believe it or not folks I've been hit with a 12k AMBUSH.... ambush people.... ambush.
Do I think sorcs could use some slight tweaking? Possibly, but truth is stamina builds can roll dodge as much as we can bolt/shield stack, they have the burst we have maybe even better, and with vigor they are JUST as sustainable as us.

Dont make the counter argument vigor is 10% of the population, its getting reduced to rank 5, lets watch magic builds be limited to ONLY sorcs in that state of the game.

Yet I don't see any NB's killing 6 people without dying. But I see sorcs do it all the time.

Ezareth · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

Sorcerers need to stop being the victim of nerf cries. It seems all these COD acting players cant take it when they see a 15k crystal frags on their death menu and instantly say "NERF".

Believe it or not folks I've been hit with a 12k AMBUSH.... ambush people.... ambush.
Do I think sorcs could use some slight tweaking? Possibly, but truth is stamina builds can roll dodge as much as we can bolt/shield stack, they have the burst we have maybe even better, and with vigor they are JUST as sustainable as us.

Dont make the counter argument vigor is 10% of the population, its getting reduced to rank 5, lets watch magic builds be limited to ONLY sorcs in that state of the game.

Yet I don't see any NB's killing 6 people without dying. But I see sorcs do it all the time.

Lol, you see Syphers latest Vid?

I kill 6 people without dying once or twice a week maybe. If they're bad, and I've never actually seen another sorc do the same when I've been around. Funny how you see it all the time though, I guess I just haven't been in Cyrodiil as long as you or something...

Vis · April 2015

Sypher wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is the only class I absolutely have to put certain skills on my bar to handle. Its kinda sad I have to put one of my entire bars dedicated to handling sorcs and even then they only die if they mess up but never if I am too good.

I have to do the same for DKs because of RS. I have play differently depending on which class I'm fighting. You don't see me whining about it.

Where are these dk's you speak of? I haven't seen any.

Great rebuttal. I made the mistake of thinking you were taking this seriously.

I constantly see Sorcs who can stand against 6 people but very very rarely do I ever see a DK do that any more. Now before 1.6 they did it all the time. So where are these DK's that scare you so badly when it only takes 3 people tops to take them down.

I think it's time for @Sypher to dust off the ole DK.

Which I will in about 2 days. Releasing a new build DK 1vX build as well.

BOW DOWN TO YOUR PREVIOUS DEMI-GODS

NOOOOOOO...

I much prefer you as a AD NB.

SafiyerAmitora · April 2015

Vis wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Sorc is the only class I absolutely have to put certain skills on my bar to handle. Its kinda sad I have to put one of my entire bars dedicated to handling sorcs and even then they only die if they mess up but never if I am too good.

I have to do the same for DKs because of RS. I have play differently depending on which class I'm fighting. You don't see me whining about it.

Where are these dk's you speak of? I haven't seen any.

Great rebuttal. I made the mistake of thinking you were taking this seriously.

I constantly see Sorcs who can stand against 6 people but very very rarely do I ever see a DK do that any more. Now before 1.6 they did it all the time. So where are these DK's that scare you so badly when it only takes 3 people tops to take them down.

I think it's time for @Sypher to dust off the ole DK.

Which I will in about 2 days. Releasing a new build DK 1vX build as well.

BOW DOWN TO YOUR PREVIOUS DEMI-GODS

NOOOOOOO...

I much prefer you as a AD NB.

Completely agree. o.o

*cowers* Watch out for the wrath of Sypher!

Waylander · April 2015

Not to derail another nerf sorcs thread but...

Stamina or Magica DK @Sypher

Morvul · April 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

Easiest fix to sorc problem ever: make bolt escape draw from stamina pool instead of magicka pool.

@Panda244 is absolutely correct when he said it is absurd that any class should be able to put all of their resources in one single stat and have effective sustain, damage, survival, and the ability to drop combat and run when they want.

THAT is exactly why people think that sorcs are OP atm. Their meta is overly simplified right now. This is not the case for ANY other class. Make them think a little bit about their build for heavens sakes!

This. I played a NB from the start and we were gimped until Cloak started getting fixed, I played a Dragonknight during the last month or so of their Sword/Board meta, I acknowledge the need for Reflect to be nerfed, I didn't agree with it, as anyone doesn't want the class they play to get nerfed, but I acknowledged it. Right now I'm agreeing with and acknowledging that Mass Hysteria needs to be nerfed, and my main is a Nightblade, Sorcerers are just... I don't know how to explain it, easy-mode for skilled players?

Drawing from the Stamina pool isn't a fix though @Sphinx2318 it forces them to be a hybrid and hybrid builds suck right now. I don't know what a good fix would be, but anyone that thinks Sorcerer's don't need to be tweaked to be brought on par with other classes is just defending the class they play the most, sadly there aren't many people that admit some abilities for their class are downright broken, such as me and Mass Hysteria. They all want easy AP and easy kills, I understand your die hard attitude to never let Sorcerers get nerfed @Ezareth I made a thread about Talons for the same reason, I don't know what to say, because nothing is going to get through that thick skull of yours.

You're wrong.

Aaaaaaand........... Erock confirmed sorc. @Panda244 there is no reasoning with them bro.

Yea me and a guy in my PvE guild were laughing about it the other day, we were trying to be sensible in a sorcerer argument and we decided to just stop talking.

The two sorcerers ranting back at us didn't shut up for another 2 minutes... And we hadn't even replied.

PvE? you are surprised PvE sorcs ranted at you when you suggested they might be OP?
Now, personally I consider sorcs to be strong in PvP, but not op... but PvE??!

what exactly has a sorc going for them in PvE that another class can't do better?

Lettigall · April 2015

Morvul wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

Easiest fix to sorc problem ever: make bolt escape draw from stamina pool instead of magicka pool.

@Panda244 is absolutely correct when he said it is absurd that any class should be able to put all of their resources in one single stat and have effective sustain, damage, survival, and the ability to drop combat and run when they want.

THAT is exactly why people think that sorcs are OP atm. Their meta is overly simplified right now. This is not the case for ANY other class. Make them think a little bit about their build for heavens sakes!

This. I played a NB from the start and we were gimped until Cloak started getting fixed, I played a Dragonknight during the last month or so of their Sword/Board meta, I acknowledge the need for Reflect to be nerfed, I didn't agree with it, as anyone doesn't want the class they play to get nerfed, but I acknowledged it. Right now I'm agreeing with and acknowledging that Mass Hysteria needs to be nerfed, and my main is a Nightblade, Sorcerers are just... I don't know how to explain it, easy-mode for skilled players?

Drawing from the Stamina pool isn't a fix though @Sphinx2318 it forces them to be a hybrid and hybrid builds suck right now. I don't know what a good fix would be, but anyone that thinks Sorcerer's don't need to be tweaked to be brought on par with other classes is just defending the class they play the most, sadly there aren't many people that admit some abilities for their class are downright broken, such as me and Mass Hysteria. They all want easy AP and easy kills, I understand your die hard attitude to never let Sorcerers get nerfed @Ezareth I made a thread about Talons for the same reason, I don't know what to say, because nothing is going to get through that thick skull of yours.

You're wrong.

Aaaaaaand........... Erock confirmed sorc. @Panda244 there is no reasoning with them bro.

Yea me and a guy in my PvE guild were laughing about it the other day, we were trying to be sensible in a sorcerer argument and we decided to just stop talking.

The two sorcerers ranting back at us didn't shut up for another 2 minutes... And we hadn't even replied.

PvE? you are surprised PvE sorcs ranted at you when you suggested they might be OP?
Now, personally I consider sorcs to be strong in PvP, but not op... but PvE??!

what exactly has a sorc going for them in PvE that another class can't do better?

Don't want to be Captain Obvious but this poll is in PvP Combat & Skills section. All the fuss is about sorcs in PvP not in PvE. If some PvE sorcs start ranting about Sorcs nerf threads they should at first look is it in PvE or PvP section.

Whining in PvP threads that sorcs aren't OP won't help them get buffed PvE, nothing will change if they defend their class in wrong place!

Iyas · April 2015

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

Sorcs aren't OP, all other magic builds just dont even compare...
Stamina is OP if anything...
Infinite roll dodge
3k weapon damage
10k CRIT charge MINIMUM

IF they change vigor to alliance rank 5... inb4 re-roll stamina NB

Also one thing the stamblade nerf is inevtiable... more and more people are using it... 3k wep dmg and 3k stam regen... higher on a bosmer

1 Sentence
Magic builds that are not sorc are so underpowered that they qq about sorcs.

TO STAMINA... if you run into all 5 of are mines chances are you should be killed... as any COMPETENT person knows if you run into those... they hurt...

show me the infinite roll dodge and 3k weapon dmg templates. thanks

Soarin' · April 2015

Same sorc band shouting down anyone who disagrees with them, lol at the same list of names appearing in every sorc thread.

exiledtyrant · April 2015

I think the main issues with sorcerers stem from uncapped regen and flawed defense. Regen is to high and allows for far to much skill spam with no real decision making. Sorcerer's defense is flawed because it revolves around simply not taking damage. You look at templars and DKs and their defense is fairly straight forward in healing, mitigation, and reflects. These have very simple balanced counters. Healing? defile or burst. Mitigation? flat reduction and penetration. Reflects? don't hit them or wait till it runs out.

Nightblades rely on avoidance in a different way from sorcerers. Mainly with loss of sight in stealth or dodge chance. Stealth? pots, magelight, dots etc.. Dodge? no real counter outside of praying to RNG. As you can see the nightblade defense is somewhat toxic because it is mostly feast or famine. If you can't break stealth you are food and if the nightblade strings together a bunch of lucky dodge procs along with rolls you are food. If the opposite happens the nighblade is ruined.

Sorcerer take this to a new extreme. A sorcerer gets major mobility to out range and out pace their opponent and shields that act as a better form of health. They can also ( and should) use dodge chance. So you have another feast or famine scenario in which you either out range and out pace your opponent continuously or you get caught and die. You also have shields you must spam because your mitigation is poor and you have no real heals. If the opponent has enough stats to consistently bust your shields again you are dead or at the very least stuck on the defensive. Dodge chance again has it's own issues.

I believe the templar and the dk way of surviving is good and the nightblade and sorcerer way of surviving is toxic. Luck based defensive mechanics along with hard counter or die is not fun to play against and in my opinion not fun to play as. Until the actual defensive measures are reevaluated and regen is addressed we are going to have these one sided matchs ups on either side.

ToRelax · April 2015

exiledtyrant wrote: »

I think the main issues with sorcerers stem from uncapped regen and flawed defense. Regen is to high and allows for far to much skill spam with no real decision making. Sorcerer's defense is flawed because it revolves around simply not taking damage. You look at templars and DKs and their defense is fairly straight forward in healing, mitigation, and reflects. These have very simple balanced counters. Healing? defile or burst. Mitigation? flat reduction and mitigation. Reflects? don't hit them or wait till it runs out.

Nightblades rely on avoidance in a different way from sorcerers. Mainly with loss of sight in stealth or dodge chance. Stealth? pots, magelight, dots etc.. Dodge? no real counter outside of praying to RNG. As you can see the nightblade defense is somewhat toxic because it is mostly feat or famine. If you can't break stealth you are food and if the nightblade strings together a bunch of lucky dodge procs along with rolls you are food. If the opposite happens the nighblade is ruined.

Sorcerer take this to a new extreme. A sorcerer gets major mobility to out range and out pace their opponent and shields that act as a better form of health. They can also ( and should) use dodge chance. So you have another feast or famine scenario in which you either out range and out pace your opponent continuously or you get caught and die. You also have shields you must spam because your mitigation is poor and you have no real heals. If the opponent has enough stats to consistently bust your shields again you are dead or at the very least stuck on the defensive. Dodge chance again has it's own issues.

I believe the templar and the dk way of surviving is good and the nightblade and sorcerer way of surviving is toxic. Luck based defensive mechanics along with hard counter or die is not fun to play against and in my opinion not fun to play as. Until the actual defensive measures are reevaluated and regen is address we are going to have these one sided matchs ups on either side.

This guy gets it.

filmoretub17_ESO · April 2015

Seems the only people who think sorcs aren't overpowerd are the people who play them. Yet 40% of the people who play them admit they are too strong and need to be changed somehow. That is an extremely high amount of people who play a class and are willing to admit such things. Normally people who play a class tend to think it is either underpowered or balanced. Very rarely will someone admit when they are playing a class that is too strong. You are lucky on any given pvp game when 10% of the players admit a class is overpowered and yet we have managed to get 40%. That alone speaks volumes.

Erock25 · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Seems the only people who think sorcs aren't overpowerd are the people who play them. Yet 40% of the people who play them admit they are too strong and need to be changed somehow. That is an extremely high amount of people who play a class and are willing to admit such things. Normally people who play a class tend to think it is either underpowered or balanced. Very rarely will someone admit when they are playing a class that is too strong. You are lucky on any given pvp game when 10% of the players admit a class is overpowered and yet we have managed to get 40%. That alone speaks volumes.

Are you implying that you actually believe everyone who voted I PLAY A SORC AND THEY ARE OP is actually a Sorc main or even has a Sorc at all?

eventide03b14a_ESO · April 2015

filmoretub17_ESO wrote: »

Seems the only people who think sorcs aren't overpowerd are the people who play them. Yet 40% of the people who play them admit they are too strong and need to be changed somehow. That is an extremely high amount of people who play a class and are willing to admit such things. Normally people who play a class tend to think it is either underpowered or balanced. Very rarely will someone admit when they are playing a class that is too strong. You are lucky on any given pvp game when 10% of the players admit a class is overpowered and yet we have managed to get 40%. That alone speaks volumes.

Incidentally 85% of all facts are made up. And 65% of all people who quote made up facts are actually idiots.