Yes please so I can finally make a Nord character

Athas24 wrote: »

Oh come now, they aren't terrible and they are in line with Nords from every other game. Cold resist, Health increase, Health regeneration increase and ...what? Some type of natural armor buff right? That's nothing compared to the Argonian who gets a handful of trash for passives lol. Granted, Ice damage isn't vastly prevalent compared to fire in the game at the moment.

They're not terrible, but they're pretty much at the bottom of the food chain.

Why do this if you want to have a Nord as your main marketing spotlight?

I demand a buff. Maybe not as strong as Imperials, because, hey, those guys DID spend real money afterall... but maybe, Axe damage?

I have 2 characters, one is a Nord, one is a Argonian..Those both equally suck in terms of Racials

Athas24 wrote: »

Oh come now, they aren't terrible and they are in line with Nords from every other game. Cold resist, Health increase, Health regeneration increase and ...what? Some type of natural armor buff right? That's nothing compared to the Argonian who gets a handful of trash for passives lol. Granted, Ice damage isn't vastly prevalent compared to fire in the game at the moment.

I would argue that Argonian and Nord are equally crappy.
Robust is mathematically better than the Arg potion passive true, but you have to seriously push health regen for it to be worth anything. Even then I would argue health regen isn't worth it, you won't kill anything stacking health regen.

6% damage reduction can be better or worse than 6% more healing depending on builds. The 6% damage reduction is applied after armor and other resists, so the tankier your character is the less you get out of the passive. Depending on heals received vs damage taken it varies as to which passive is worse.

I think they both suck and need to be looked at.

Gain 2 ultimate for each food eaten, limit once per 30 seconds

Aeternus wrote: »

Nords should be able to compete with Imperials, Redguard, and Khajiit as stamina dps. Give them a flat bonus to weapon damage when using a 2H weapon. I think that would be fair.

best. answer. ever.

BUT, i dont think we'll get that. coz, yknow. ZOS hates Nords. can't u tell?

Skip to the bolded text if you aren't interested in the details.

Frost Resist

Athas24 wrote: »

Oh come now, they aren't terrible and they are in line with Nords from every other game... Granted, Ice damage isn't vastly prevalent compared to fire in the game at the moment.

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Nords desperately need buffed.

...

Give us Brawny instead of resist frost, let us have +6% health and +6% Stamina.

I mentioned a while back the idea that Frost Resist should be like the swimming passive for Argonians: a nice lore-friendly ability that is paired with something else more consistently useful. Here is the description of my suggestion in detail, but the basic concept is like a reverse execute -- the lower your health, the greater the boost to Max Health, so that a Nord can stay in combat longer/take more damage and actually be dangerous at low health. More tanky and more Nord-like. It's not the best idea for a mechanic but maybe it could spark some inspiration for something better. Anyway, the tooltip might look like this:

Resist Frost – Increases Cold Resistance by 2016. Increases maximum Health by 6%. The maximum Health bonus increases at low health. Grants a bonus to remaining health when that resource drops below 45%. This bonus is based on the maximum Health score and increases as remaining health decreases. (Thanks to Armitas for noting the poor phrasing I had previously used and not corrected.)



Two Handed Weapon Expertise

Athas24 wrote: »

I'd love Axe damage or speed!

Davadin wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

I'd love Axe damage or speed!

Oooooh speed! Weapon speed! Only on 2-hander! (we have racial to give bonus to learning 2-H already!)

In the old Argonian racials thread, this comment and this follow-up give my most recent suggestions and logic for buffing the lizard people. I mention this in part since there is a discussion of Nords and Argonians both being in the bottom group for racial passives but primarily because of a concept I am floating for ALL races, which is making the armor/weapon expertise passive useful for more than just leveling the relevant skill line.

For Argonians I initially suggested boosting all Restoration passives by 2%, by which I simply meant add 2% to whatever it said in each passive. It was just something to toss out. I picked a low number, 2%, to keep it simple and from sounding OP. And the change would be additive, so the last passive would go from "Increases all healing done by 5%" to "Increases all healing done by 7%", which while small is a 40% increase. It's even smaller in effect for those passives that grant 15% and 30% bonuses. One alternative would be a larger number for the bonus to the passives but make it multiplicative instead of additive, which would boost the other passives but do less for the final passive. In any case, though, the concept is clear: actually get a small but not entirely pointless edge when using the weapon or armor your race is supposed to be proficient with.

When elaborating on the idea I used the example of the Nords and perhaps getting some crafting bonus(es) for Two Handed weapons. But I like the idea of weapon speed for Two Handed, so maybe the crafting bonuses can go to some other race and their weapon or armor (I think I like crafting bonuses better for armor anyway). So here is an example of how the passive might look for Nords in a revamped system:

Two Handed Weapon Expertise – Increases experience gain with Two Handed skill line by 15%. Increases attack speed with Two Handed weapon by 10%.


Tougher Nords: Sound Good?

So there you go, Nords would still have lore-friendly frost resistance but would be tankier/last longer in battle and would have some of the attack speed penalty for large weapons reduced to help increase damage output from light and heavy attacks. Not sure if it sounds like enough to those wanting buffs but it would be a huge improvement. What do you think? Would you have more fun with your Nord or want to play a Nord with these changes?

Armitas wrote: »

Increasing max health while at low health will just put you in execute range quicker and make executioner hit harder on you.

If execution skills scale damage up as the target's health gets lower, which is what I recall for the ones I've used like Executioner from the Two-Handed skill line and Radiant Destruction from the Templar skill line, how would having your health drop more slowly (which is basically what the change would do, make it drop more slowly once it got below some threshold) make execution skills hit you harder? If your health goes down slower, wouldn't you get hit for less damage by those damage bonuses that scale to low health targets and subsequently have more time to use a healing ability or potion?

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Ah, nevemind. I see what you mean.

Yes, I did word the passive badly. I meant to correct it months ago on the original comment from another thread but apparently I didn't and the error carried over here.

The concept was/is to have a health bonus that scaled with damage taken based on Max health to reward investing in that stat. It wasn't meant to actually make your actual Max health *possible* bigger, but to use a formula "as if" your Max health had increased. A *big* difference. Thanks for catching my poor phrasing.

So basically, you get a scaled bonus based on your total possible Max Health (i.e. the 20,000 in 15,000/20,000 on a health meter) and how low the remaining Health has gotten. If you invest really, really heavily in Max Health, the bonus you get as your remaining Health drops gets MUCH bigger.

Davadin wrote: »

I also think the health scale is not as effective. Please keep in mind that i'm viewing the Nord IN COMPARISON to other races, where we pale in comparison. (yes, Argonian included). If Imperial gets 10% bonus of a couple major stat, then asking 10% buff on just one specific weapon is NOT too much, in my honest opinion.

Sure, I was just thinking it would be fun for tanky Nords to get a boost based on taking damage, but I did suggest increasing the Max Health bonus as well. It would still be better than it is at present. And the numbers could be adjusted to make the health scaling more effective.

I guess my idea was to make Nords even more dangerous after you hit them by giving them more sustainability so that the more you pound on them the harder they are to kill. There are other ways to do it, such as flat rate boosts to healing, stamina, etc, while in combat, but if done right making Nords really hard to kill at low health could be very fun.

Another option I had considered for making Nord more dangerous would be to make all physical damage dealt by a Nord hit harder the more damage that Nord had taken. Again, it wouldn't kick in until some place below 50% of total health, and wouldn't really make a huge splash until well below 50%, so that a Nord near death would be dishing out MUCH more damage to any and all foes. Basically a class based execute bonus based on the attacker's remaining health rather than the target's health.

Davadin wrote: »

Weapon speed is good, but I'm more toward Weapon Damage. I mean, again, look at all the other races. Will this make Nord OP? Of course not. But it will reduce the regret of all of us Nord players who got hooked by (yes, Skyrim among others, but also) the big Nord hero in the promotional video and art.......

Except that this part wasn't strictly about balancing Nords, it was about adding some nice little bonus to all races. Those that have weaker racials at the moment would get things that would have a more immediate impact in direct combat (like a boost to weapon passives or attack speed), and those that have stronger racials for combat would get things like crafting bonuses. I'm not against the weapon damage, by the way, just liked the speed idea.

Davadin wrote: »

Bonus feedback: If we are putting the racial passives in lore context, how the hell you explain the OP Imperial? They're the best damn race in the game, and by far, they're the most average physically compared to other races.

From http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial

"Colovian Imperials in Western Cyrodiil are more Nordic, sharing similar beliefs such as a heavy martial and seafaring tradition. Nibeneans have an Akaviri and, to a lesser degree, Elven heritage. They have a greater appreciation for magic, art, commerce, and spirituality"

Yeah, not sure how that translates into some of the current ESO racial passives like the Max Health bonus being higher than that of Nords. But they are a premium race in ESO, so... there you go?

The racial bonuses for Imperials from Morrowind and Oblivion includes Star of the West, which gave this ability:

Absorb Fatigue transfers Fatigue from the victim to the caster, wearying the victim and invigorating the caster. The caster may exceed their maximum fatigue for the duration. When the effect ends, the caster loses the borrowed fatigue, and the victim regains drained fatigue.

In Oblivion and Skyrim there was also Voice of the Emperor, which had a charm/calm effect. This goes along with the emphasis on Imperials being decent soldiers but getting big bonuses to convincing people in dialogue choices (like the function of the Persuasive Will and Intimidate passives in ESO but without the minigame) and in getting better prices from merchants.

Nah, I feel like +10% HP and +10% Stamina is still better than a tiny bit of bonus HP at low health.

Maybe if it were bonus health and bonus damage...which I see you just said in your latest post.

Honestly my two main gripes are this:
1. Nords aren't even as tanky as imperials.
2. Nords shouldn't be pure tanks, no race should be relegated to a single role, especially one that barely has any place in PvP.

Bonus damage at lower health would at least somewhat alleviate point two.

Frost Resist is worthless. No one, not a single person, cares about having it or not.

Two Handed Weapon Expertise – Increases experience gain with Two Handed skill line by 15%. Increases attack speed with Two Handed weapon by 10%.

Bad idea. Races will be locked into using specific weapons if they want to be competitive, instead of using what they want.

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

I have 2 characters, one is a Nord, one is a Argonian..Those both equally suck in terms of Racials

Nord 6% damage reduction is awesome racial. Makes up for the others in my opinion. 21% damage reduction with choking talons dragonknight. 81% damage reduction elusive mist vampire.

They nerfed it, now it's -6%, then -15% of the remaining 94%, then -60% of the remaining whatever you got. end result would be 67% NOT 81%

Works robust to fight for your Nord? on my not .

in combat have Nord + 30% health recovery, i dont have this bonus in combat

Well if dos were to untie damage / skill ability scaling from resources (stamina, magicka) and tie instead to weapon and spell power only (with an exception for health based scaling maybe)... then a lot of the op racial passives would become far less op... Of course some would still be superior generally (Altmer, Dunmer for example), but the relative level of imbalance would be reduced.

Still a buff to Argonian and Nord passives would be nice

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Nah, I feel like +10% HP and +10% Stamina is still better than a tiny bit of bonus HP at low health.

Maybe if it were bonus health and bonus damage...which I see you just said in your latest post.

I figured people would think both bonus health *and* damage scaling off of max possible health/how low current health gets would be OP, but if you had both, it would make Nords especially dangerous when seriously wounded. Basically, the health mechanic as worked out would slow the rate of health loss below 45%, which if paired with the other option would give more of a chance to take advantage of the damage bonus, activate a damage shield, or heal. Add in the existing damage mitigation...