Post 1.6 PVP Balancing Needed Badly

Rudyard · April 2015

FYI, templar skill Eclipse still bugs at least half the time and templar cannot cast any other skills when it bugs for the duration fo the Eclipse bubble.

Soris · April 2015

Rudyard wrote: »

FYI, templar skill Eclipse still bugs at least half the time and templar cannot cast any other skills when it bugs for the duration fo the Eclipse bubble.

Even after when this skill is cleaned from bugs, it will still have no use for most templars because of the CC immunty it gives. People just use break free right after you cast that. And you end up handing out CC immunities with your most expensive skill without actually CCing them.Duh
It needs complete overhaul or simply removal.

MrGhosty wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

And the other guy just clicks left mouse button while you doing all these. Lol

he has to hit cc break lol, you have to go on defensive when overload is up, i go on defensive when i see it as well as a sorc. if you try and kill a sorc with out some form of defense going, your going to get owned by it.

Hahaha yeah that's big skillz man. They have to press break free sometimes.

Like pew pew pew - reload - pew pew

I don't normally like to call people out, but you sir have some serious hangups about being classified as a "skilled" player. As someone who long ago had to make piece with Lag ruling the day in every online multiplayer game I play, it isn't about how many buttons you have to push that makes a skill use skillful. It is about knowing WHEN to push that button (it's not an I win button anyway). The skill in playing this game from the PvP perspective is more about lining up your attacks, putting together a strong bar and having the situational awareness to know when your bar can win the day and when it cannot.
.

This is exactly my point If you read my other comments in this topic.

Though it is ablosulutely possible to achive victory by spamming one or two actions over and over. Say shields or WB or streak, barrel dodging ect. Anything... Doing situational roll dodges for example is unreasonable when you can constantly do that with animation cancel and never run out of stamina. It is about how hard you spam these and how long you sustain yourself. This is the meta now along with insane burst and crits.

Tactical gameplay is history tbh. There is only two things matters currently and they are "you burst or you die" and "stack shields or dodge everything" Such tactical, much deep gameplay wow.

Chikenuget · April 2015

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

WB is a B**** in PvP in my opinion. It is a huge pain to use. Easily dodged and simply moving slightly to the left or right screws the skill up. Practice could help, but I found the skill far to tedious to even bother with. I slot surprise attack instead.

What I would like to see is abilities damage being reduced by 30% if holding block. This isn't just for balance, it's realistic. If you are defending with your shield up you're simply not attacking with full force. The only exception to this would be spears and one or two other weapons. None of which are in the game.

Certain skills hit harder than they should. One or two shotting people in PvP is a bit ridiculous. These skills need a bit of re-balancing. Even I have done it, and I'm always like "wow, how did I just do that, that's ***!". Sure I say it with a smile because who doesn't like seeing themselves hit a target for 17k. However I realize that it's also stupid.

I don't mind "perma dodgers" because I dodge a lot as well. Just have to be patient when fighting one and not spam skills. you will waste your resources. Wait for them to attack. What they can balance is the ability to dodge and attack at the same time.

I still think shield stacking is a pain however more and more I have learned ways around it. Again, timing and using high burst skills with CC while shields are down can kill many sorcs before they can break CC. It's not easy and shield stacking is very powerful but doesn't really need a nerf. If anything perhaps increase the cost of the ability.

These are the things I consider needing "balancing" if anything at all.

Reasonable suggestions but I don't believe taking out dodging and attacking would be a good move. This weaving has a nice skill requirement and can have some very high potential if played right. I don't mind perma dodgers either as I can usually take them down anyway (much easier to take down than high self healers/ low cost but highly defensive abilities). I think there is an in between ZOS needs to find with dodge rolling. If you build to perma dodge you should sacrifice something heavily.

Comparatively, a magicka/super sorc SHOULD have stamina problems. (Just whyyyy is the CC immunity window so damn long?!). But that's another story.

Ezareth · April 2015

Soris wrote: »

Even after when this skill is cleaned from bugs, it will still have no use for most templars because of the CC immunty it gives. People just use break free right after you cast that. And you end up handing out CC immunities with your most expensive skill without actually CCing them.Duh
It needs complete overhaul or simply removal.

I have to completely disagree with this. Eclipse (when unbugged) is easily one of the most powerful abilities in the game right now. It can be reapplied if it is purged, and forcing your opponents to break free is the entire point of CC now (stam drain).

Unlike most CCs Eclipse can be cast on multiple targets at once, from max range and it's effect can be used reactively (when a fragment or overload is in flight). If your opponent decides to let eclipse lapse then it can instantly be reapplied.

You'd be foolish to not have this ability if they fix it and you're a magicka templar.

Soris · April 2015

Yeah right stamina drain. I could use some solid hard CC if I wanted to drain stamina.
If a spell's main purpose is to reflect projectiles, I'd expect that it works as its main purpose. Eclipse is a reflect skill for people who don't know how mechanics work. It is however a stamina drainer for people who know how mechanics work. If you are lucky enough, you can use it as well timed reflect. But that requires your target has no CC immunity on him/her.

If I wanted to use a reflect skill, I would use 1h/shield reflect. Now that is a solid reflect. It has no global cooldowns, no limitations by cc immunity..nothing. It always stuns your target no matter if it removed by staff light attacks or actually reflects a spell. And it doesn't have that big black bubble that screams for "CLEANSE ME FIRST" Thus it is hard to notice most of the time.

Ezareth · April 2015

Soris wrote: »

Yeah right stamina drain. I could use some solid hard CC if I wanted to drain stamina.
If a spell's main purpose is to reflect projectiles, I'd expect that it works as its main purpose. Eclipse is a reflect skill for people who don't know how mechanics work. It is however a stamina drainer for people who know how mechanics work. If you are lucky enough, you can use it as well timed reflect. But that requires your target has no CC immunity on him/her.

If I wanted to use a reflect skill, I would use 1h/shield reflect. Now that is a solid reflect. It has no global cooldowns, no limitations by cc immunity..nothing. It always stuns your target no matter if it removed by staff light attacks or actually reflects a spell. And it doesn't have that big black bubble that screams for "CLEANSE ME FIRST" Thus it is hard to notice most of the time.

Defensive Stance is best used reactively as you said single light staff attack can remove it. It shares the same global cooldown as all abilities, the stun only works when the target isn't CC immune. (up until 2.04 it didnt even stun through damage shields). It also requires a S&B setup.

I'll often chase my overload/fragments with a light attack against someone using DS to do just this or I'll have my own reflect up instead.

Cleansing eclipse isn't the best idea as it can be reapplied.

You should see it from my side. I've had single templars dedicated to spamming exclipse on me pretty much lock me down and make me useless. I then have to try to kill my target in a short window after breaking free before it is inevitably reapplied. Eclipse is best used in group situations, not necessarily 1 v 1s. Hard CC is probably more useful in a 1 v 1.

technohic · April 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Even after when this skill is cleaned from bugs, it will still have no use for most templars because of the CC immunty it gives. People just use break free right after you cast that. And you end up handing out CC immunities with your most expensive skill without actually CCing them.Duh
It needs complete overhaul or simply removal.

I have to completely disagree with this. Eclipse (when unbugged) is easily one of the most powerful abilities in the game right now. It can be reapplied if it is purged, and forcing your opponents to break free is the entire point of CC now (stam drain).

Unlike most CCs Eclipse can be cast on multiple targets at once, from max range and it's effect can be used reactively (when a fragment or overload is in flight). If your opponent decides to let eclipse lapse then it can instantly be reapplied.

You'd be foolish to not have this ability if they fix it and you're a magicka templar.

When trying to keep a healing role going where I can sustain the heals, it still is great because you can use that magickas damage dealers damage and magicka stacking against them since you cannot invest in the same, as they probably don't have enough stamina to keep breaking it. That and the 1h/shield reflect with drink and tripots, you can out-stam them. Have to watch out for the WB and snipe spammers though.

Soris · April 2015

In 1v1, I often find myself using both skills for double effect. Very handy tbh for the cost of one wasted skill slot.
Eclipse's stamina drain effect is very useful added a chance to reflect spells if timed well. And Defensive Stance is up there always when they don't expect it.
Relying Eclipse alone to reflect is like gambling imo due to the immunity issue.

Kelleton · April 2015

tcgoetzub17_ESO wrote: »

When 1.6 first came out, things seemed relatively balanced. Since then people have started to find the holes in the system. On each Monday I looked forward to the patch notes assuming that these issues would start to be addressed. They haven't been and the situation is becoming more critical.

Some of the imbalances:
More than half of the people in PVP are running two hander now. That alone tells you that something is wrong. There haver been plenty of posts whats wrong with two hander, so I won't go into that here.

A large part of the population can now doge most attacks either with roll-dodge or some kind of standing dodge. The standing dodge seems to allow them to dodge near 100% of attacks for ~ 30s. Are they stacking something with blur or evasion? What ever it is dodge should never be 100% and never for such long times.

This morning I was nuked down by a sorc for 22k with three overload light attacks. Lights attacks can be spammed way too fast for them to do that much damage. I know how fast I can spam light attacks. This was from a sorc that blinked out from Faragyl past the mine and back, so he had to be a regen sorc and not spell damage.

This is the big three for me right now, but I'm sure people could list many others.

The way this is going in a few weeks everyone in PVP is going to be a roll dodging two hander user or blinking, shield stacking, overload sorc. Is that what we're looking for? Is everyone going to have to go to the build of the day to compete?

this is the same as pre 1.6 just with a different meta.

everyone will run what they think is most powerful. Pre 1.6 you had a lot of sword and board + resto/destroy staff magica builds and people complaining about 2k snipe builds.

now people run 2hs and do overload..its the same situation...

Kupoking · April 2015

In 1.5 I could perma dodge even more. . .

Ezareth · April 2015

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

In 1.5 I could perma dodge even more. . .

Due to the increases in possible Stamina regen and Stam reduction enchants with 1.6, and addition of the cost reduction CP and Stamina regen passives this statement may be true to you specifically but is not factual for the majority of players.

The_Death_Princess · April 2015

OP all three of your main points involve hax/exploits. You are dead on right about it has to stop. You are dead on wrong that its the skills.

2h is not OP unless combined with the speed hax. (I used 2h since begining of game and to date no one complains I have hacked/spam to my face)

Perma dodge is not dodge per say but a keybind spam.

Overload is not so much an exploit, but I notice the only ones I ever really see using this are known exploiters of other things (I think its easier for them to do this if they have the keybind spam).

Draxys · April 2015

The_Death_Princess wrote: »

OP all three of your main points involve hax/exploits. You are dead on right about it has to stop. You are dead on wrong that its the skills.

2h is not OP unless combined with the speed hax. (I used 2h since begining of game and to date no one complains I have hacked/spam to my face)

Perma dodge is not dodge per say but a keybind spam.

Overload is not so much an exploit, but I notice the only ones I ever really see using this are known exploiters of other things (I think its easier for them to do this if they have the keybind spam).

Please explain how using something that's effective is an exploit or hack.