frozywozy wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ok for everyone who didn't get it yet, when I'm reffering to stealth, I mean to say Cloak. Though it was obvious, guess not. In world of warcraft, vanish has a huge cooldown. Back in the days it was 2minutes, then they reduced it to 1minute 30seconds, dunno what it is now but you could definitely not spam it like it is happening now. lmfao. this is the most OP skill ever.

This thread is about issues occurring with Ctrl Sneaking specifically.

If Cloak is giving you problems in PvP, use a Detection potion -- they work great, and can have almost 100% uptime simply by leveling up the Medicinal Use passive in Alchemy.

Sorry, a potion should not be the ONLY counter to a nightblade spamming a skill. Every skill should have a skill to counter it.

Radiant Magelight also sees through Cloak and is available to all classes.

DDuke wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ok for everyone who didn't get it yet, when I'm reffering to stealth, I mean to say Cloak. Though it was obvious, guess not. In world of warcraft, vanish has a huge cooldown. Back in the days it was 2minutes, then they reduced it to 1minute 30seconds, dunno what it is now but you could definitely not spam it like it is happening now. lmfao. this is the most OP skill ever.

This thread is about issues occurring with Ctrl Sneaking specifically.

If Cloak is giving you problems in PvP, use a Detection potion -- they work great, and can have almost 100% uptime simply by leveling up the Medicinal Use passive in Alchemy.

Sorry, a potion should not be the ONLY counter to a nightblade spamming an ability. Every ability should have an ability to counter it.

And every class has abilities which counter it, these are called "AoE".

No, the guy will still be able to dodge roll cloak multiple times until he runs away making it impossible to counter. Not even with a shield charge or any stun or fear or disable. As long as he can dodge roll + cloak, if he does it fast enough, he is in invincible mode. The reason why you have skills in other mmos such as Faerie fire which keep a target visible for X period of time. And it is what Revealing Flare is supposed to do but it's bugged. The guy can still use Cloak after getting revealed by it and go back into Stealth.

Here is the description of Revealing Flare : Exposed enemies cannot return into Stealth for 8 seconds.

But if they dodge roll out of the Flare area, they can pop cloak and restealth right away, ez pz. Getting revealed should put a debuff on themselves preventing them from using Cloak for 8 seconds.

frozywozy wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ok for everyone who didn't get it yet, when I'm reffering to stealth, I mean to say Cloak. Though it was obvious, guess not. In world of warcraft, vanish has a huge cooldown. Back in the days it was 2minutes, then they reduced it to 1minute 30seconds, dunno what it is now but you could definitely not spam it like it is happening now. lmfao. this is the most OP skill ever.

This thread is about issues occurring with Ctrl Sneaking specifically.

If Cloak is giving you problems in PvP, use a Detection potion -- they work great, and can have almost 100% uptime simply by leveling up the Medicinal Use passive in Alchemy.

Sorry, a potion should not be the ONLY counter to a nightblade spamming an ability. Every ability should have an ability to counter it.

WHERE TO START...
1. AOE
2. GAP CLOSERS ATTACKS
3. RANGE LIGHT AND HEAVY ATTACKS
4. POTIONS
5. WB
6. RANGE ABILITES IN GENERAL
7. MARK TARGET
8. RAZOR CALTROPS
9. ANY DOT (UNLESS YOU HAVE THE DOT REMOVAL CLOAK)
10. THE NEW ALLIANCE SKILL REVEAL

Your right, it shouldn't have just one counter... maybe be if there was others?

frozywozy wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ok for everyone who didn't get it yet, when I'm reffering to stealth, I mean to say Cloak. Though it was obvious, guess not. In world of warcraft, vanish has a huge cooldown. Back in the days it was 2minutes, then they reduced it to 1minute 30seconds, dunno what it is now but you could definitely not spam it like it is happening now. lmfao. this is the most OP skill ever.

This thread is about issues occurring with Ctrl Sneaking specifically.

If Cloak is giving you problems in PvP, use a Detection potion -- they work great, and can have almost 100% uptime simply by leveling up the Medicinal Use passive in Alchemy.

Sorry, a potion should not be the ONLY counter to a nightblade spamming an ability. Every ability should have an ability to counter it.

the only NBs that can spam cloak are magickca build NBs. stamina build NBs can only cast it a few times

and the only NBs that can spam dodge roll are stamina based NBs, magicka based NBs can only do it a few times.

both have plenty of counters as it is in my opinion.

but cloak is not the topic of this thread, the topic is this broken stealth system.

@Cody roll a Magicka Nightblade, use Dark Cloak all the time. Problem solved.

I have yet to have an issue with Dark Cloak not working or getting pulled out, it works all the time, I use it and I run through people, the only thing that pulls me out of it is my own DoTs or a Stealth Detection Potion.

Regular sneak, is broken. Completely and utterly broken. But I've had no such issues with the Nightblade Cloak ability, works fine for me, or at least so far it has.

frozywozy wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ok for everyone who didn't get it yet, when I'm reffering to stealth, I mean to say Cloak. Though it was obvious, guess not. In world of warcraft, vanish has a huge cooldown. Back in the days it was 2minutes, then they reduced it to 1minute 30seconds, dunno what it is now but you could definitely not spam it like it is happening now. lmfao. this is the most OP skill ever.

This thread is about issues occurring with Ctrl Sneaking specifically.

If Cloak is giving you problems in PvP, use a Detection potion -- they work great, and can have almost 100% uptime simply by leveling up the Medicinal Use passive in Alchemy.

Sorry, a potion should not be the ONLY counter to a nightblade spamming an ability. Every ability should have an ability to counter it.

WHERE TO START...
1. AOE
2. GAP CLOSERS ATTACKS
3. RANGE LIGHT AND HEAVY ATTACKS
4. POTIONS
5. WB
6. RANGE ABILITES IN GENERAL
7. MARK TARGET
8. RAZOR CALTROPS
9. ANY DOT (UNLESS YOU HAVE THE DOT REMOVAL CLOAK)
10. THE NEW ALLIANCE SKILL REVEAL

Your right, it shouldn't have just one counter... maybe be if there was others?

Like I said, if the nightblade dodge roll + cloak fast enough, he gets back in stealth mode every one second or so and he is impossible to hit by anything as long as he has ressources to dodge and cast cloak. Invincible mode. This is the reason why Revealing Flare should put a debuff which prevent him from using Cloak, totally gray out the skill from his bar.

And for the people saying that a nightblade cannot both spam cloak and dodge roll forever, this is true but let's be honest here, all it takes is 3-4 combination of dodge roll + stealth to really fool an enemy. I won't even start talking about gear that boost speed movement, etc. It is really easy to get away.

No matter how many revealing spare I'll spam, that guy will dodge roll + cloak long enough to get out of my range. And in the end, I'm the one who will get out of stamina trying to chase him, even if I'm hybrid with 18k stamina, and he will kill me because I won't be able to cc break.

Doesn't matter if dodge roll break stealth, during the dodge roll, you cannot target him and by the time he finishes dodge rolling, if the guy is good enough and cast cloak in time, there is no possibility to cast anything on him, not even a shield charge or a critical rush like you can do on a sorc trying to bolt away.

This is where it comes to the detect pot being the only way to counter dodge roll + cloak spam which should not be the case.

What you said is not true about stealth and invis.

Invis does not work like stealth, they are 2 separate mechanics. Cloak does not put you back in stealth, what you are probably referring to, is the NB who casts cloak repeatedly in order to hide from u. The revealing flare does put a debuff on you, it isn't bugged and I can't reenter stealth (only happened once for me so maybe it is bugging out sometimes)

Granted a NB can reenter stealth and not be stuck in combat (sometimes), if he can put enough distance between the enemies and exit LOS (most also use speed + medium armor passives to enhance this ability). If a NB disappears and reenters stealth; u too can go into reenter stealth (if wearing medium armor and your stealth detection range is equal to the NB), since he broke the LOS either through distance or terrain (i'm not sure what the distance is (Medium armor reduces this quite a bit). If you are still revealed, there is a solid chance so is he, just hidden by LOS. Other NBs are very good at this, but people who have not played a NB fail to understand this mechanic.

What is the hard counter to a shield? I can damage it. You can do the same against a cloaked NB... see above list. Or use the ingame counters that are supposed to work, a potion (which needs to go away IMO), magelight, AOE, caltrops, revealing flare, DOTs. That seems like enough counters to me...

All of the stuff I mentioned above breaks cloak, so it is really a mute point as far as I'm concerned, just spam shield charge or whatever... I have yet to see a death recap without 3 of the hits being things that shouldn't be on there.

frozywozy wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ok for everyone who didn't get it yet, when I'm reffering to stealth, I mean to say Cloak. Though it was obvious, guess not. In world of warcraft, vanish has a huge cooldown. Back in the days it was 2minutes, then they reduced it to 1minute 30seconds, dunno what it is now but you could definitely not spam it like it is happening now. lmfao. this is the most OP skill ever.

This thread is about issues occurring with Ctrl Sneaking specifically.

If Cloak is giving you problems in PvP, use a Detection potion -- they work great, and can have almost 100% uptime simply by leveling up the Medicinal Use passive in Alchemy.

Sorry, a potion should not be the ONLY counter to a nightblade spamming an ability. Every ability should have an ability to counter it.

WHERE TO START...
1. AOE
2. GAP CLOSERS ATTACKS
3. RANGE LIGHT AND HEAVY ATTACKS
4. POTIONS
5. WB
6. RANGE ABILITES IN GENERAL
7. MARK TARGET
8. RAZOR CALTROPS
9. ANY DOT (UNLESS YOU HAVE THE DOT REMOVAL CLOAK)
10. THE NEW ALLIANCE SKILL REVEAL

Your right, it shouldn't have just one counter... maybe be if there was others?

Like I said, if the nightblade dodge roll + cloak fast enough, he gets back in stealth mode every one second or so and he is impossible to hit by anything as long as he has ressources to dodge and cast cloak. Invincible mode. This is the reason why Revealing Flare should put a debuff which prevent him from using Cloak, totally gray out the skill from his bar.

AltusVenifus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

AltusVenifus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ok for everyone who didn't get it yet, when I'm reffering to stealth, I mean to say Cloak. Though it was obvious, guess not. In world of warcraft, vanish has a huge cooldown. Back in the days it was 2minutes, then they reduced it to 1minute 30seconds, dunno what it is now but you could definitely not spam it like it is happening now. lmfao. this is the most OP skill ever.

This thread is about issues occurring with Ctrl Sneaking specifically.

If Cloak is giving you problems in PvP, use a Detection potion -- they work great, and can have almost 100% uptime simply by leveling up the Medicinal Use passive in Alchemy.

Sorry, a potion should not be the ONLY counter to a nightblade spamming an ability. Every ability should have an ability to counter it.

WHERE TO START...
1. AOE
2. GAP CLOSERS ATTACKS
3. RANGE LIGHT AND HEAVY ATTACKS
4. POTIONS
5. WB
6. RANGE ABILITES IN GENERAL
7. MARK TARGET
8. RAZOR CALTROPS
9. ANY DOT (UNLESS YOU HAVE THE DOT REMOVAL CLOAK)
10. THE NEW ALLIANCE SKILL REVEAL

Your right, it shouldn't have just one counter... maybe be if there was others?

Like I said, if the nightblade dodge roll + cloak fast enough, he gets back in stealth mode every one second or so and he is impossible to hit by anything as long as he has ressources to dodge and cast cloak. Invincible mode. This is the reason why Revealing Flare should put a debuff which prevent him from using Cloak, totally gray out the skill from his bar.

And for the people saying that a nightblade cannot both spam cloak and dodge roll forever, this is true but let's be honest here, all it takes is 3-4 combination of dodge roll + stealth to really fool an enemy. I won't even start talking about gear that boost speed movement, etc. It is really easy to get away.

No matter how many revealing spare I'll spam, that guy will dodge roll + cloak long enough to get out of my range. And in the end, I'm the one who will get out of stamina trying to chase him, even if I'm hybrid with 18k stamina, and he will kill me because I won't be able to cc break.

Doesn't matter if dodge roll break stealth, during the dodge roll, you cannot target him and by the time he finishes dodge rolling, if the guy is good enough and cast cloak in time, there is no possibility to cast anything on him, not even a shield charge or a critical rush like you can do on a sorc trying to bolt away.

This is where it comes to the detect pot being the only way to counter dodge roll + cloak spam which should not be the case.

What you said is not true about stealth and invis.

Invis does not work like stealth, they are 2 separate mechanics. Cloak does not put you back in stealth, what you are probably referring to, is the NB who casts cloak repeatedly in order to hide from u. The revealing flare does put a debuff on you, it isn't bugged and I can't reenter stealth (only happened once for me so maybe it is bugging out sometimes)

Granted a NB can reenter stealth and not be stuck in combat (sometimes), if he can put enough distance between the enemies and exit LOS (most also use speed + medium armor passives to enhance this ability). If a NB disappears and reenters stealth; u too can go into reenter stealth (if wearing medium armor and your stealth detection range is equal to the NB), since he broke the LOS either through distance or terrain (i'm not sure what the distance is (Medium armor reduces this quite a bit). If you are still revealed, there is a solid chance so is he, just hidden by LOS. Other NBs are very good at this, but people who have not played a NB fail to understand this mechanic.

What is the hard counter to a shield? I can damage it. You can do the same against a cloaked NB... see above list. Or use the ingame counters that are supposed to work, a potion (which needs to go away IMO), magelight, AOE, caltrops, revealing flare, DOTs. That seems like enough counters to me...

All of the stuff I mentioned above breaks cloak, so it is really a mute point as far as I'm concerned, just spam shield charge or whatever... I have yet to see a death recap without 3 of the hits being things that shouldn't be on there.

I don't know what else to say. You repeated stuff that you conclude it is possible to do when I stated in my post that it is not possible to do. For example, shield charging which is not possible against a good player who know how to time dodge rolling and cloaking correctly. At this point, once again, it requires videos to go further so I'm gonna drop it until I get some recordings to support my points.

Plus, you mention that Invisibility and Stealth are two different things. I don't play a nightblade but I watched Sypher's videos on his nightblade, and when he uses Dark Cloak, he stays in stealth even after the 2.5 seconds of the ability no matter if he is in combat or not. This is exactly what is happening in most of the situations when I chase a nightblade spamming dodge roll and dark cloak. In the end he always gets in stealth because I could not touch him at all. Or he gets out of range because spamming dodge roll + cloak is faster than running.

funny, cause last time i was playing, i was getting shield charged while cloaked constantly.