Issues with stealth in PvP

Cody

So I was playing in Azuras star not 10 minutes ago. I got a few kills and died a lot. so nothing unusual there:D

I am making this thread because I have been having some serious issues with stealth, both in Azuras star and my most recent visit to the lag infested monstrosity known as thornblade. I am getting pulled out of stealth randomly, for no reason that I can see, whenever enemies are near. By "near" I mean on the screen, but quite some distance away.

I tried narrowing down an answer before coming to the forums about it, but i cannot decide on a reason.

It cannot be magelight, because this happens when I am a big distance away from the enemy(ies)

It cannot be flare, because in every single situation, no flare was cast.

therefore, I can only assume that its either:

detect pots have an absurd amount of range.

its some kind of bug that I have not seen or heard about.

This has gotten me killed many times and is starting to get on my nerves. This never happens in blackwater blade, which is why I am suspicious.

Is it just that detection potions have a gigantic radius? or is it a bug? I need confirmation!:/

derpsticks

I've had the same issue, where the eye opens randomly and will immediately close soon after. No one in sight. Guards way too far away. Very random.

Cody

and another reason why i am suspicious is because I NEVER had this happen to me pre 1.6. even detect pots did not get me unstealthed that far away. Only with 1.6 is the game doing this to me.

If it keeps up this way I will be forced to completely switch play styles. It happens enough to the point it turns into a huge frustration. I have literally been pulled from stealth directly in front of a huge group, nowhere near detect pot or magelight range. It is getting me killed. Its hard enough playing my squishy build; I do not need to start getting killed because the game is getting me killed:/

Aminals

I don't rely on stealth though there have been numerous occasions over the last few days I've seen random enemy players crouched in corners nearby checking their map or afk or just generally oblivious as if they think they're invisible. It's quite funny.

Cody

Aminals wrote: »

I don't rely on stealth though there have been numerous occasions over the last few days I've seen random enemy players crouched in corners nearby checking their map or afk or just generally oblivious as if they think they're invisible. It's quite funny.

were you right next to them? or a distance away? did any recent combat happen?

Cody

So I am just finding out that detect pots have a radius of 20 meters and last 31 seconds:(

well I guess that answers my question.

I guess its time to hang up my stealth build. Time to make a sorcerer I guess.

Teargrants

Welcome to the world of detect pots. Where have you been for the last 12 months?

Samadhi

Cody wrote: »

So I am just finding out that detect pots have a radius of 20 meters and last 31 seconds:(
...

40 seconds with 45 second cooldown with max Alchemy passive.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

I use the semi loss of stealth to my advantage because it tells me a hidden enemy is near and it is time to pop one of your detection potions.

Cody

Teargrants wrote: »

Welcome to the world of detect pots. Where have you been for the last 12 months?

it was never to such an extreme... I never had this much of a problem with them until now.

and for the last 12 months I have been in hopesfire, wabbajack, haderus, the PvE zones, and a few other places:D

Samadhi

Cody wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Welcome to the world of detect pots. Where have you been for the last 12 months?

it was never to such an extreme... I never had this much of a problem with them until now.

and for the last 12 months I have been in hopesfire, wabbajack, haderus, the PvE zones, and a few other places:D

Detection potions actually used to have longer range for my Nightblade, back when we still had a potion effectiveness passive.

Keron

Does the eye open if you're seen with a detect pot? I have had it happen three times today that I was suddenly attacked while the eye was fully closed and "hidden" status was active.

Samadhi

Keron wrote: »

Does the eye open if you're seen with a detect pot? I have had it happen three times today that I was suddenly attacked while the eye was fully closed and "hidden" status was active.

Presuming yes.

Will frequently shadow sneaking people for prolonged periods before attacking them by using Detection potions to track them, and many of their first reactions are to block which indicates to me that there is a signifier on their end alerting them to my presence in the area.

Keron

Samadhi wrote: »

Keron wrote: »

Does the eye open if you're seen with a detect pot? I have had it happen three times today that I was suddenly attacked while the eye was fully closed and "hidden" status was active.

Presuming yes.

Will frequently shadow sneaking people for prolonged periods before attacking them by using Detection potions to track them, and many of their first reactions are to block which indicates to me that there is a signifier on their end alerting them to my presence in the area.

Thanks for the input. That was my conviction also. Presumably some weird bug going on there.

DDuke

I've had this happen also.

Also, using your own potions breaks stealth as well, which is extremely annoying (making it pretty much impossible to drink weapon power potion for instance before engaging).

Any word on whether these are intended features or bugs, and if you are working on a fix @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno ?

Whatever they are, they are making the life of a stealth focused character extremely annoying.

Samadhi

DDuke wrote: »

I've had this happen also.

Also, using your own potions breaks stealth as well, which is extremely annoying (making it pretty much impossible to drink weapon power potion for instance before engaging).

Any word on whether these are intended features or bugs, and if you are working on a fix @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno ?

Whatever they are, they are making the life of a stealth focused character extremely annoying.

The second issue was supposed to have been fixed in 1.6.5

Potions now behave more consistently regarding stealth; no potion will reveal you from stealth unless it hurts or stuns you.

Know that Weapon Crit potions used to break stealth but no longer do for me; have not tested Weapon Power though.

kevlarto_ESO

I have been wondering, I can be sneaking along eye closed says hidden under it, then all of the sudden from a pretty good distance away, I see someone charge me, but my eye is still closed and still says hidden, never says detected or opens at all, is this a detect pot ? I am not marked either, is this server lag ? or something else. It seems like a lot of times no matter what I do, use invis pot, cloak, I can not shake the person on me. Just wondering.

Cody

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

I have been wondering, I can be sneaking along eye closed says hidden under it, then all of the sudden from a pretty good distance away, I see someone charge me, but my eye is still closed and still says hidden, never says detected or opens at all, is this a detect pot ? I am not marked either, is this server lag ? or something else. It seems like a lot of times no matter what I do, use invis pot, cloak, I can not shake the person on me. Just wondering.

well my issue is the eye being forced open and be being forced from stealth for no apparent reason at completely random chance.

who knows what the problem could be. The stealth system has honestly been having issues for months. I wish ZOS would fix it already.

oh, and yes duke, drinking potions takes one out of stealth. As does eating foods and, I assume, drinking drinks.

DDuke

Samadhi wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I've had this happen also.

Also, using your own potions breaks stealth as well, which is extremely annoying (making it pretty much impossible to drink weapon power potion for instance before engaging).

Any word on whether these are intended features or bugs, and if you are working on a fix @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno ?

Whatever they are, they are making the life of a stealth focused character extremely annoying.

The second issue was supposed to have been fixed in 1.6.5

Potions now behave more consistently regarding stealth; no potion will reveal you from stealth unless it hurts or stuns you.

Know that Weapon Crit potions used to break stealth but no longer do for me; have not tested Weapon Power though.

Weapon Power+Crit potions certainly still take you out of stealth.

Just used them today to witness it multiple times. Incredibly annoying when you have to hit cloak after using potion & hope the enemy didn't see you during the 1,3 second GCD triggered by the potion (another bug, or intended feature?)

Samadhi

DDuke wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I've had this happen also.

Also, using your own potions breaks stealth as well, which is extremely annoying (making it pretty much impossible to drink weapon power potion for instance before engaging).

Any word on whether these are intended features or bugs, and if you are working on a fix @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno ?

Whatever they are, they are making the life of a stealth focused character extremely annoying.

The second issue was supposed to have been fixed in 1.6.5

Potions now behave more consistently regarding stealth; no potion will reveal you from stealth unless it hurts or stuns you.

Know that Weapon Crit potions used to break stealth but no longer do for me; have not tested Weapon Power though.

Weapon Power+Crit potions certainly still take you out of stealth.

Just used them today to witness it multiple times. Incredibly annoying when you have to hit cloak after using potion & hope the enemy didn't see you during the 1,3 second GCD triggered by the potion (another bug, or intended feature?)

Personally use Weapon Crit + Detection and have no issues.

Went to Cyrodiil and crafted Weapon Power + Stamina Regen, it pulled me out of Stealth.
Weapon Power + Weapon Crit + Stamina Regen did as well.

Weapon Power + Speed + Stamina Regen did not, which is exceedingly unusual as the first two tests lead me to figure that Weapon Power alone was the culprit.

Both the Weapon Power + Stamina Regen and the Weapon Power + Weapon Crit + Stamina Regen potions are named Panacea of Weapon Power -- the Weapon Power + Speed + Stamina Regen is named Panacea of Speed.

Perhaps the issue is specifically occurring due to the named item Panacea of Weapon Power.

Definitely a bug though; would advise putting in a /bug and a report on the CS forum.

TheBucket

If you heal or dama

Cody wrote: »

So I was playing in Azuras star not 10 minutes ago. I got a few kills and died a lot. so nothing unusual there:D

I am making this thread because I have been having some serious issues with stealth, both in Azuras star and my most recent visit to the lag infested monstrosity known as thornblade. I am getting pulled out of stealth randomly, for no reason that I can see, whenever enemies are near. By "near" I mean on the screen, but quite some distance away.

I tried narrowing down an answer before coming to the forums about it, but i cannot decide on a reason.

It cannot be magelight, because this happens when I am a big distance away from the enemy(ies)

It cannot be flare, because in every single situation, no flare was cast.

therefore, I can only assume that its either:

detect pots have an absurd amount of range.

its some kind of bug that I have not seen or heard about.

This has gotten me killed many times and is starting to get on my nerves. This never happens in blackwater blade, which is why I am suspicious.

Is it just that detection potions have a gigantic radius? or is it a bug? I need confirmation!:/

Yes. Detect pits have 20m range. Which needs to be addressed and knocked down by half imo

kimboh

Cody wrote: »

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

I have been wondering, I can be sneaking along eye closed says hidden under it, then all of the sudden from a pretty good distance away, I see someone charge me, but my eye is still closed and still says hidden, never says detected or opens at all, is this a detect pot ? I am not marked either, is this server lag ? or something else. It seems like a lot of times no matter what I do, use invis pot, cloak, I can not shake the person on me. Just wondering.

well my issue is the eye being forced open and be being forced from stealth for no apparent reason at completely random chance.

who knows what the problem could be. The stealth system has honestly been having issues for months. I wish ZOS would fix it already.

oh, and yes duke, drinking potions takes one out of stealth. As does eating foods and, I assume, drinking drinks.

Yes, I've been experiencing this over the past few weeks.
The eye keeps opening and closing, bringing me in and out of stealth for no apparent reason. No enemies nearby (can happen at an owned resorce), no battles nearby, just random in/out of stealth.

MiyaTheUnbroken

I've noticed this as well. As mentioned, it can happen with no enemies nearby. Yesterday I was in a keep that we'd owned for hours, and my eye popped open. I was at the front gate in the courtyard, so if any enemy had been hiding in the keep for hours and managed to get within 20 meters of me, the guards would have noticed.

And stealth has always been broken in one way or another. It has never been anything but broken.

Armitas

If an enemy player goes in stealth at point X it creates a circle of detection with a certain radius. If the player leaves that spot the circle of detection remains so that if you enter that circle it will appear as if you are approaching a player even though that player is long gone.

frozywozy

I understand that the skill isn't working as intented but man.... Stealth is the most OP and absurd skill in the game that should not even exist without a huge cooldown. Actually stealth should be an ultime that cost at least 50ultimates. If you die because stealth is not working like it is supposed to, maybe you should stop walking solo against too many players and be more careful, to start with. You know like all the other classes in the game? Or maybe just dodge roll 25times until you get behind a rock so you can wait 10seconds and re-roll another 25times away until stealth finally work "as intented" ?

Samadhi

frozywozy wrote: »

I understand that the skill isn't working as intented but man.... Stealth is the most OP and absurd skill in the game that should not even exist without a huge cooldown. Actually stealth should be an ultime that cost at least 50ultimates. If you die because stealth is not working like it is supposed to, maybe you should stop walking solo against too many players and be more careful, to start with. You know like all the other classes in the game? Or maybe just dodge roll 25times until you get behind a rock so you can wait 10seconds and re-roll another 25times away until stealth finally work "as intented" ?

Change Ctrl crouching to an Ultimate that costs 50 points.
Make it available through the Legerdemain skill line.

Sounds good.

Xeniph

I have noticed the old bug...

"Dead target finally rezes, and your eye opens" is back.

After a lot of testing that seems to explain the random eye opening, atleast for me.

Then there is the "Lag Eye" I call it.

often when someone see you stealth, the spot you vanished on their screen with show them a partal eye opening when the get to the spot. It happens to both players and make it a PITA to actually track down that stealther.

And yes, detect pots rock when you use them, and suck when they are used on you.
I go through a stack a day, roughly.

Cody

frozywozy wrote: »

I understand that the skill isn't working as intented but man.... Stealth is the most OP and absurd skill in the game that should not even exist without a huge cooldown. Actually stealth should be an ultime that cost at least 50ultimates. If you die because stealth is not working like it is supposed to, maybe you should stop walking solo against too many players and be more careful, to start with. You know like all the other classes in the game? Or maybe just dodge roll 25times until you get behind a rock so you can wait 10seconds and re-roll another 25times away until stealth finally work "as intented" ?

every single one of the other 3 classes is fully capable of sneaking just as well as a NB. the only advantage the NB has is a halfway broken cloak. A medium armor sorc in nights silence can sneak just as well as a NB in medium armor nights silence. A cloak that only lasts 2.5 seconds, only works half the time, and that is breakable by a 20-30 meter radius detection potion, is NOT that big of an advantage; trust me. Heck you can make an invisibility potion and pretty much copy the ability yourself with another class if you so desired. NBs get class based stealth openers, not actual sneaking advantages.
now on to the actual topic of this thread.

I am a SCOUT. I am SUPPOSED to be able to sneak around and spy on the enemy. I am built around stealth, and I rely on it. In exchange my in- combat effectiveness is very low. Stealth is in no way OP. anyone that is built around it often cannot fight anywhere near as well as someone built for fighting.

and 25 roll dodges? you must be exaggerating, as the most I can roll is 10:/ and that's from 100% stamina, without having used any stamina abilities or have sprinted.

stealth should cost ultimate... i can't believe you just typed that:/ so to sneak I should have to forfeit ultimates that benefit me in battle; while people that do not rely on stealth will have far superior ultimates? How is that fair when my combat ability is already lower than someone who does not rely on stealth to begin with? even if it was as low as 50 ultimate it would still be outrageous.


I think you just get mad when you get ganked and want it stopped by the devs instead of stopping it yourself:/

I will not tell you to L2P, as that won't solve anything; just be aware of what the consequences will be for what you are asking for.

frozywozy

Ok for everyone who didn't get it yet, when I'm reffering to stealth, I mean to say Cloak. Though it was obvious, guess not. In world of warcraft, vanish has a huge cooldown. Back in the days it was 2minutes, I dunno about now but I can't believe we can actually spam that thing without any cooldown atm. haha

EDIT: Plus, Revealing Flare is not even working like it's supposed to. It's supposed to prevent the revealed player from stealthing for 8seconds...... BUT THEY CAN STILL USE CLOAK! hahahaha

Samadhi

frozywozy wrote: »

Ok for everyone who didn't get it yet, when I'm reffering to stealth, I mean to say Cloak. Though it was obvious, guess not. In world of warcraft, vanish has a huge cooldown. Back in the days it was 2minutes, then they reduced it to 1minute 30seconds, dunno what it is now but you could definitely not spam it like it is happening now. lmfao. this is the most OP skill ever.

This thread is about issues occurring with Ctrl Sneaking specifically.

If Cloak is giving you problems in PvP, use a Detection potion -- they work great, and can have almost 100% uptime simply by leveling up the Medicinal Use passive in Alchemy.

frozywozy

Samadhi wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ok for everyone who didn't get it yet, when I'm reffering to stealth, I mean to say Cloak. Though it was obvious, guess not. In world of warcraft, vanish has a huge cooldown. Back in the days it was 2minutes, then they reduced it to 1minute 30seconds, dunno what it is now but you could definitely not spam it like it is happening now. lmfao. this is the most OP skill ever.

This thread is about issues occurring with Ctrl Sneaking specifically.

If Cloak is giving you problems in PvP, use a Detection potion -- they work great, and can have almost 100% uptime simply by leveling up the Medicinal Use passive in Alchemy.

Sorry, a potion should not be the ONLY counter to a nightblade spamming an ability. Every ability should have an ability to counter it.