Why Zerging will Reign Supreme in 1.6

newtinmpls · February 2015

What does Zerg mean anyway?

ToRelax · February 2015

woodsro wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Siege vs Player is no fun either. Siege weapons are more than fine in their current state

Making Siege a bit better(actually a threat to kill you) is not going to make the game siege vs player.

...

[bit to long to quote imo, but better to have th link to the post open, you commented after that one already]

I agree, some siege should do more damage (#Scattershot) and all siege effects should be unpurgeble.

Last time I died was a few weeks ago against oil as a vamp I think. Before I got vamp i can't remember, must be some months.

k2blader · February 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

What does Zerg mean anyway?

Good Q. I mean, I think we all have an idea of what it means, but with different biases.

I think zerg generally means a large group (20+ ?) that is "running over" smaller groups. From an AD perspective I think zergs can be a mix of pugs and guilds and randoms; though typically the largest portion is pugs, with the other two categories feeding off their momentum.

What's been strange to me is how many people post as if they are never part of a zerg (when I think they are at least some of the time, unless all they do is gank or duel.)

newtinmpls · February 2015

K2blader, NOW you've done it. You have actually answered a question civilly. Who knows where this could lead?

But now in your moment of weakness, I must ask you:

What are pugs and randoms, and what is a gank - and how are you using duel here (seems not to mean the traditional thing).

And thanks, 'cause I had no idea what a zerg was.

Xsorus · February 2015

Zerg balls won't exist in 1.6, you will get bombed to death by multiple meteors and flawless dawn breaker.

Turelus · February 2015

Huntler wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

You're a sorc aren't you?

If you think negate is useless after 1.6..... you haven't been paying attention.

Other pro tips, siege is ridiculously powerful.... you're using it wrong. Second, don't use real world examples on how things worked to balance a video game because well... yeah. Other pro tip, they did increase siege damage, maybe play the PTS and test before complaining on the forms.... makes you look silly.

Umm I played the pts a lot. I have a templar and dk too, my main is a sorc.

Negate sucks now in comparison. Absorption Field on live:

Stuns

Dispells any effects and heals me

Anyone who casts a spell targeted inside my negate heals me, ground based aoe casted outside my negate that come inside my negate heal me.

The negate in 1.6 sucks in comparison.

Furthermore, I know siege ignores armor now, but it doesn't do enough base damage to players. 50% more damage on a crap base damage is not going to make much of a difference.

Yes, by comparison it is extremely weaker. Which says a lot about how freaking fantastic that ultimate was before because as an ultimate in 1.6.... it is still unbelievably strong. It counters the other most powerful ultimates in the game..... are you serious?

And btw, they also increased based siege damage by 10%, siege on live is already ridiculously strong when used correctly. L2siege

@huntler for the benefit of those of us who have not learnt to siege correctly would you mind explaining what correct sieging is and how it can indeed be employed as the power house you're claiming.

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2015

Example, few minutes ago, fired fire ballista right into a group dead center multiple times..400 damage...useless...whats the damn point most skills do more damage then that.

Meteor is easily countered with scales, defensive posture, hope folks like a reflected meteor...oh and immovable is quite common so no stun or knockback.

They really need to address siege, that's just sad for damage and its not much better on pts either

Xsorus · February 2015

woodsro wrote: »

Example, few minutes ago, fired fire ballista right into a group dead center multiple times..400 damage...useless...whats the damn point most skills do more damage then that.

Meteor is easily countered with scales, defensive posture, hope folks like a reflected meteor...oh and immovable is quite common so no stun or knockback.

They really need to address siege, that's just sad for damage and its not much better on pts either

You are no going to counter meteor with any of those things while stacked. Don't believe me? Log your ass on pts and run as a stacked group and see how well ya do.

Kas · February 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

Or maybe instead of wasting an ultimate for one banner, just move out of it?

Moving out is not always applicable, especially when zergs are involved. Just say your faction's randoms will suicide into said banner. Combat fenzy and battle roar will just make you want to prevent that, even if you don't care about randoms dying. Then there are fights at flags, chokes, etc.

Anyway, this argument completely misses the point: if you can just move out of a banner / nova, that does not make the nerfed negate any more useless than those ults in the first place. What i was gonna say is that 1.62 negate is not bad - or at least definitly not worse than other ultimates. Simply because you can use it to counter them, get a singificant number of buffs, invest less ult, and only take minimal damage in turns. If you see a nova fly, can you negate it before the syngery is shown to allies as well.

RoamingRiverElk · February 2015

When people talk about siege in zerg context, all I can think of is that meatbag and fire ballista aimed by the zerg at the flag where you are trying to defend outnumbered.

Purge should only affect up to four people near you (and remove four effects instead of two) - it should not cleanse 24 people around you.

olemanwinter · February 2015

woodsro wrote: »

20 players who are good should be more then capable of fending of 80-100 attackers,

Forget a group with siege fending off a larger number of attackers.

Right now, a group of 20 with siege will get FACE ROLLED by a group of 15 or less.

Wanna die? Put up some siege anywhere away from a keep.

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

woodsro wrote: »

20 players who are good should be more then capable of fending of 80-100 attackers,

Forget a group with siege fending off a larger number of attackers.

Right now, a group of 20 with siege will get FACE ROLLED by a group of 15 or less.

Wanna die? Put up some siege anywhere away from a keep.

With the way things are now, i can't disagree with that statement one bit, it pretty much hits the nail right on the head with the the state of the game right now and in 1.6 moving forward.

Sharkan · February 2015

I don't know about 1.6 (didn't install PTS) but Zergs come from a few points

The game rules make it the best tactic. I mean...what's the best way to take a keep ? Don't touch the resources, destroy walls as fast as possible, take flag 1 then 2. Now where do you need to spread up for that ???
Easy to set up : stand on crown + spam whatever your AOE heal / shield / dmg.
Super efficient : kills people fast + hard to bring down thanks to concentrated heals. It even works better with lag as you don't need to target anyone. Just spam your AOE and the game server will compute de dmg :-/
AOE abilities in this game are cheap and you can pretty much spam them endlessly while running around. So why bother ?

To fix zerg they should first make all AOE spells more expensive, or give them some casting time so you can't run full speed ahead and spam it. (easier to target for the other team...less lag dependant)

But they should also fix the general capture rules so it's better to move as small groups rather than large zergs.

Each captured resource = Weaker NPC keep defenders, so it makes sense to do it BEFORE attacking. Of course we'd need much stronger NPC when all 3 resources are under control of the defenders.
Attackers controlling all 3 resources = no respawn in the keep. Controlling 1 or 2 could also add a respawn delay so it's always to your advantage to control the maximum number of resources.
Instead of 2 big flags next to each other, make it 5 flags at various location (inner courtyard, 2nd floor, etc) >> you need to capture and hold them to win the keep. 1 big zerg would constantly be running around while defenders would retake the left over flags with just a few people.

But I've given up on this being fixed (like the stupid number of CC in PvP or the fact that DK are freaking OP)

Until there's a better MMO out there, I might stick around, but I'm disappointed by the lack of balancing and adjustments they've done so far.

Kode · February 2015

I agree on the idea that siege is generally too weak. Its not like you dont have a big long warning before it hits you.
I see both sides of the argument. Siege on live can help turn a battle, specifically meat bags because they debuff healing... but honestly, it is the only reason.
Oil pots have been particularly effective in the past, but people are getting very good at defeating them. I would love to see oil pots with a huge snare on them that cant be negated, possibly even a knock down. Give the oil some time to do its damage and make the healers have to plan the rush a little better to cover those going through.
I would like to see all siege damage buffed, impact siege should have a knockback and stun, followed by a strong secondary effect like many already have.
I dont want noobs one shotting me either, but I shouldnt be getting one shotted unless I am not paying attention. If I see my area under seige, I should feel like I need to move, not take the hit. Siege should be able to scatter zergs, and stop keep rushes. This would encourage counter siege and discourage zerging.

But that is just my opinion...

Gooey · February 2015

Lets keep siege damage the same and just put oils back on the ground eh eh eh.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · February 2015

I dont know where you have been but the zergs have figured out how good negate is. it is absolutely not a zergbuster, they have 5 ready to double negate everything everytime lately. I would argue that it is making the well organized zergs stronger not weaker.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · February 2015

Goldie wrote: »

A lot of good points in this thread, but as far as that goes, only about 10% of you have thoroughly tested on PTS, so lets all give the new changes a chance to be tested on the live servers before we jump to conclusions or speculate on what is broken or not. For all we know the new changes will annihilate zergs and cause PvP warfare to become more like actual medieval warfare!

agree, and people are not stating(in this thread) if they were testing with op 3600 cp or with reasonable 1-200. your like an emp with full cp obv you can shrug off/heal through a single seige.

themdogesbite · February 2015

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

Goldie wrote: »

A lot of good points in this thread, but as far as that goes, only about 10% of you have thoroughly tested on PTS, so lets all give the new changes a chance to be tested on the live servers before we jump to conclusions or speculate on what is broken or not. For all we know the new changes will annihilate zergs and cause PvP warfare to become more like actual medieval warfare!

agree, and people are not stating(in this thread) if they were testing with op 3600 cp or with reasonable 1-200. your like an emp with full cp obv you can shrug off/heal through a single seige.

You could easily do the same with 70..

cozmon3c_ESO · February 2015

I would say yes to the but as it is its hard to hit seine on the wall as attackers in general, maybe make it so you can aim trees and catapults higher then wall towers I would be all for increasing the damage. Then both defenders and attackers will be at even odds.

snipeopsub17_ESO · February 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

What does Zerg mean anyway?

As I recall it comes from Starcraft. The Zergling races strategy relied on mass amounts of cheap troops to win (quantity over quality).

stumpy999 · February 2015

have they fixed purge and elemental blockade in 1.6?

almost never purge atm as it's too easy to wipe out your entire raid.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · February 2015

Zerging reigns supreme now, no news here.

technohic · February 2015

Not sure how you think you can get rid of the zerg. Anything you can do, the zerg can do and in greater numbers.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · February 2015

technohic wrote: »

Not sure how you think you can get rid of the zerg. Anything you can do, the zerg can do and in greater numbers.

^ this.

I do agree that siege are way to weak still on the PTS.

AhPook_Is_Here · February 2015

What I always love about these threads are straight up facts and no hyperbole.