Sorc observations on changes between Live and PTS (updated for 1.61)

Sanct16 · February 2015

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

So, impossible to go OOM as sorc on PTS, Deadric mines are a joke aswell. Overall burst damage with most builds is silly. It feels like im playing the Call of duty of MMOS.

Hmmm... well, whatever.

DK OP - PLS NERF!

Sanct16 · February 2015

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Imation(sp) (some 2 star icon) had an amazing Desto/pet damage build. He got me after awhile when I screwed up and let my shields drop but his build was doing excellent damage even through I had BoL as I couldn't keep BoL up 100% of the time with a template char.

Sabre Ali was testing out some 2 hander sorc builds and despite being a hybrid was doing very well due to his superior skill. Out of all the fights going on in the duels I enjoyed watching his fights the most for their display of skill.

Most of the other fights were pretty boring to watch, my own included.

After playing around I came to the conclusion that Streak is not worth it at all imo. Its 1.5" stun is too short to offer any real advantage now that it grants 6" of CC immunity. Nobody bothers breaking it, because by the time you've streaked through and turned around half the duration has passed and you can only get 1 attack off before it ends. If the target has a shield up that one attack won't even hit his HP. So by streaking someone you basically offer them a free 6" CC immunity. Not cool.

On the other hand using BoL in duels (which is what PTS is domminated by right now) is incredibly boring and only offer dull fights, it also put people of from fighting you.

But only because 99% of people still don´t know that they can heavy attack through bol with staves......

Never had any problems with my resto staff ( =

Well that hits like a wet noodle on pts. Fire heavy for 7k+ is something entirely different

What am I missing there? Has something changed in my 3 month absence or is it something new with 1.6?

I think people are confusing the fact that a flame staff fully charged heavy attack does 3 types of dmg and a resto staff only does 2. So they see a dos difference and forget how much magicka is returned through the resto channel.

When did we start speaking about Magicka return? Since you have infinite Magicka anyway it doesn't matter.

Not sure what you mean with "types of damage". Fire heavy staff is 1 hit. Resto heavy attack is 3 ticks. Lightning staff heavy is 4 ticks.

What Derra wanted to say is, that heavy attacks ignore BoL.

Ezareth · February 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Imation(sp) (some 2 star icon) had an amazing Desto/pet damage build. He got me after awhile when I screwed up and let my shields drop but his build was doing excellent damage even through I had BoL as I couldn't keep BoL up 100% of the time with a template char.

Sabre Ali was testing out some 2 hander sorc builds and despite being a hybrid was doing very well due to his superior skill. Out of all the fights going on in the duels I enjoyed watching his fights the most for their display of skill.

Most of the other fights were pretty boring to watch, my own included.

After playing around I came to the conclusion that Streak is not worth it at all imo. Its 1.5" stun is too short to offer any real advantage now that it grants 6" of CC immunity. Nobody bothers breaking it, because by the time you've streaked through and turned around half the duration has passed and you can only get 1 attack off before it ends. If the target has a shield up that one attack won't even hit his HP. So by streaking someone you basically offer them a free 6" CC immunity. Not cool.

On the other hand using BoL in duels (which is what PTS is domminated by right now) is incredibly boring and only offer dull fights, it also put people of from fighting you.

But only because 99% of people still don´t know that they can heavy attack through bol with staves......

Never had any problems with my resto staff ( =

Well that hits like a wet noodle on pts. Fire heavy for 7k+ is something entirely different

What am I missing there? Has something changed in my 3 month absence or is it something new with 1.6?

I think people are confusing the fact that a flame staff fully charged heavy attack does 3 types of dmg and a resto staff only does 2. So they see a dos difference and forget how much magicka is returned through the resto channel.

When did we start speaking about Magicka return? Since you have infinite Magicka anyway it doesn't matter.

Not sure what you mean with "types of damage". Fire heavy staff is 1 hit. Resto heavy attack is 3 ticks. Lightning staff heavy is 4 ticks.

What Derra wanted to say is, that heavy attacks ignore BoL.

So do restore staff heavy attacks from what I recall.

cozmon3c_ESO · February 2015

Yeah heavy attacks avoid Bol but leaves you wide open. So your argument is kinda moot, it neo an effect way to do damage. The real issue with Ball of light is that the balls last to long, no one ability should cut out an entire type of style of play without some window to do some damage. No one wants to fight a Bol sorc cause it's going to be a long drawn out fight of boring with the Bol sorc.

Ps how to get around Bol
-if there are two or more balls up, stand directly in between two balls and your magicka projectiles will bypass the balls.
-if there is one ball up stand directly on it and you projectiles will work as if the ball is not there.

Hope that helps people when fighting this OP skill that last for 5 SECONDS.

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Yeah heavy attacks avoid Bol but leaves you wide open. So your argument is kinda moot, it neo an effect way to do damage. The real issue with Ball of light is that the balls last to long, no one ability should cut out an entire type of style of play without some window to do some damage. No one wants to fight a Bol sorc cause it's going to be a long drawn out fight of boring with the Bol sorc.

Ps how to get around Bol
-if there are two or more balls up, stand directly in between two balls and your magicka projectiles will bypass the balls.
-if there is one ball up stand directly on it and you projectiles will work as if the ball is not there.

Hope that helps people when fighting this OP skill that last for 5 SECONDS.

How is BOL OP it doesn't even do any damage. Furthermore, it bugs and doesn't even absorb anything half the time.

If anything the skill needs fixed so it actually works as stated more then half the time.

Vis · February 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Yeah heavy attacks avoid Bol but leaves you wide open. So your argument is kinda moot, it neo an effect way to do damage. The real issue with Ball of light is that the balls last to long, no one ability should cut out an entire type of style of play without some window to do some damage. No one wants to fight a Bol sorc cause it's going to be a long drawn out fight of boring with the Bol sorc.

Ps how to get around Bol
-if there are two or more balls up, stand directly in between two balls and your magicka projectiles will bypass the balls.
-if there is one ball up stand directly on it and you projectiles will work as if the ball is not there.

Hope that helps people when fighting this OP skill that last for 5 SECONDS.

I would agree it was op if the three other classes didn't have ways to more effectively shut down sorc dps (scales, eclipse, stealth spam). The fact it only absorbs some projectiles, requires you to stay in place, and is non spammable leads me to believe it is fairly in balance. Nerf bol and I would expect nerfs to some of the spammable sorc counters.

Juraigr · February 2015

Looooooooool I remember when this was scales people complained about it

Sanct16 · February 2015

All skills should be removed. SKILLS OP.

Erondil · February 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

All skills should be removed. SKILLS OP.

Even agony?

Sanct16 · February 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

All skills should be removed. SKILLS OP.

Even agony?

Especially Agony!!!

Soulac · February 2015

Blood Altar too?

Mojomonkeyman · February 2015

Well, there is a reason BoL wasn`t used by duelers for the first months of the game. Not because its not good, but it just is too good for a duel setting vs some setups.

That was always the case, why do we start complaining about it now, when it it didnt really change - brutally strong in duel setting, needed for some setups in open world setting (ever tried playing a stamina melee sorc without BoL)?

Sanct16 · February 2015

well, people used to complain about reflect being to OP. Now that reflect got destroyed they need a new skill to complain about. Once BoL is nerfed they will complain about some other skill.

Derra · February 2015

Reflect still op in duels. Just the rest of the magica dk got wrecked

Ezareth · February 2015

I'd be thrilled to see BoL "Nerfed" to match reflective scales 4 reflect limitation as long as they actually fixed it like reflective scales to work 100% of the time.

Even so, unlike reflect absorbing projectiles is much different than reflecting them and the base cost of BoL is increased by 50% if recast within 4 seconds.

Sypher · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Imation(sp) (some 2 star icon) had an amazing Desto/pet damage build. He got me after awhile when I screwed up and let my shields drop but his build was doing excellent damage even through I had BoL as I couldn't keep BoL up 100% of the time with a template char.

Sabre Ali was testing out some 2 hander sorc builds and despite being a hybrid was doing very well due to his superior skill. Out of all the fights going on in the duels I enjoyed watching his fights the most for their display of skill.

Most of the other fights were pretty boring to watch, my own included.

After playing around I came to the conclusion that Streak is not worth it at all imo. Its 1.5" stun is too short to offer any real advantage now that it grants 6" of CC immunity. Nobody bothers breaking it, because by the time you've streaked through and turned around half the duration has passed and you can only get 1 attack off before it ends. If the target has a shield up that one attack won't even hit his HP. So by streaking someone you basically offer them a free 6" CC immunity. Not cool.

On the other hand using BoL in duels (which is what PTS is domminated by right now) is incredibly boring and only offer dull fights, it also put people of from fighting you.

But only because 99% of people still don´t know that they can heavy attack through bol with staves......

Never had any problems with my resto staff ( =

Well that hits like a wet noodle on pts. Fire heavy for 7k+ is something entirely different

What am I missing there? Has something changed in my 3 month absence or is it something new with 1.6?

Heavy attacks with all staffs bypass BoL. Including the Fire/frost projectile heavy attacks,

Valnas · February 2015

aye aye. heavy resto streak heavy resto streak streak streak frag ftw!

Maulkin · February 2015

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

So, impossible to go OOM as sorc on PTS, Deadric mines are a joke aswell. Overall burst damage with most builds is silly. It feels like im playing the Call of duty of MMOS.

First off, how is magicka sustain a sorc relevant thing? Every magicka build can sustain better than before due to champion system passives. Sorcs don't get much of a bonus on this. Also when we dueled yesterday you admitted you had to chug 20 potions (I had to do the same) despite me feeding your Harness Magicka all the time, so how exactly is that not going out of OOM. Unless you intend to chug potions on cooldown in open PvP as well.

But yeah, overall damage with min/maxed builds is very very high. One mistake and you're dead. It's what happens when soft caps are removed willy nilly.

Ezareth · February 2015

Sypher wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Imation(sp) (some 2 star icon) had an amazing Desto/pet damage build. He got me after awhile when I screwed up and let my shields drop but his build was doing excellent damage even through I had BoL as I couldn't keep BoL up 100% of the time with a template char.

Sabre Ali was testing out some 2 hander sorc builds and despite being a hybrid was doing very well due to his superior skill. Out of all the fights going on in the duels I enjoyed watching his fights the most for their display of skill.

Most of the other fights were pretty boring to watch, my own included.

After playing around I came to the conclusion that Streak is not worth it at all imo. Its 1.5" stun is too short to offer any real advantage now that it grants 6" of CC immunity. Nobody bothers breaking it, because by the time you've streaked through and turned around half the duration has passed and you can only get 1 attack off before it ends. If the target has a shield up that one attack won't even hit his HP. So by streaking someone you basically offer them a free 6" CC immunity. Not cool.

On the other hand using BoL in duels (which is what PTS is domminated by right now) is incredibly boring and only offer dull fights, it also put people of from fighting you.

But only because 99% of people still don´t know that they can heavy attack through bol with staves......

Never had any problems with my resto staff ( =

Well that hits like a wet noodle on pts. Fire heavy for 7k+ is something entirely different

What am I missing there? Has something changed in my 3 month absence or is it something new with 1.6?

Heavy attacks with all staffs bypass BoL. Including the Fire/frost projectile heavy attacks,

Ahh yeah I forgot that heavy fire attacks used to hit my BoL. Still, I had never considered this a big deal overall. I've really got to find a way to fit a desto staff into my lineup but the abilities are just so boring to me.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

So, impossible to go OOM as sorc on PTS, Deadric mines are a joke aswell. Overall burst damage with most builds is silly. It feels like im playing the Call of duty of MMOS.

First off, how is magicka sustain a sorc relevant thing? Every magicka build can sustain better than before due to champion system passives. Sorcs don't get much of a bonus on this. Also when we dueled yesterday you admitted you had to chug 20 potions (I had to do the same) despite me feeding your Harness Magicka all the time, so how exactly is that not going out of OOM. Unless you intend to chug potions on cooldown in open PvP as well.

But yeah, overall damage with min/maxed builds is very very high. One mistake and you're dead. It's what happens when soft caps are removed willy nilly.

Yeah my template sorc with no Seducer spell cost reduction bonuses runs OOM all the time in PTS even with chugging pots.

People should not be balancing the game around the assumption that they have potions on cooldown 100% of the time as that will only be the case with a very small % of the population and assuming otherwise makes farming potions a *requirement* for PvP. I and others can handle that, but the majority of players cannot.

Maulkin · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

People should not be balancing the game around the assumption that they have potions on cooldown 100% of the time as that will only be the case with a very small % of the population and assuming otherwise makes farming potions a *requirement* for PvP. I and others can handle that, but the majority of players cannot.

Precisely.

To expand on this. People are currently not stacking cost reduction, because they are dueling and they have free stacks of potions by the templates. But that is not based on a realistic consumption of magicka and pots as it will happen in open PvP.

For example, in duels I only Bolt Escape once every 4"-5" to renew the BoL. In open PvP though, when my butt is in deep deep trouble, I might BE 5-6 times (as much my magicka pool and potions can carry me) to get to a safe distance or behind the nearest obstacle. Without an ArchMage/Seducer/Warlock set, I will probably die a lot more and as a result the "stack max Magicka and spell damage" approach of PTS will not carry well to open PvP.

Sanct16 · February 2015

pots are for the weak.

Maulkin · February 2015

Sanct16 wrote: »

pots are for the weak.

Duel me without pots and see how long you last :P

Edit: Provided I'll still be using pots, weakling that I am

themdogesbite · February 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

So, impossible to go OOM as sorc on PTS, Deadric mines are a joke aswell. Overall burst damage with most builds is silly. It feels like im playing the Call of duty of MMOS.

First off, how is magicka sustain a sorc relevant thing? Every magicka build can sustain better than before due to champion system passives. Sorcs don't get much of a bonus on this. Also when we dueled yesterday you admitted you had to chug 20 potions (I had to do the same) despite me feeding your Harness Magicka all the time, so how exactly is that not going out of OOM. Unless you intend to chug potions on cooldown in open PvP as well.

But yeah, overall damage with min/maxed builds is very very high. One mistake and you're dead. It's what happens when soft caps are removed willy nilly.

I get what you say, but ive been chuggin potions of cooldown for months, granted on PTS i chugg lots of them when it isnt even needed, since i have an infinite ammount avaible to me. And to be fair, before i even knew trhat the templates had acces too tri stat pots (a tad weaker then crafted potions) i still had no issues with magica. I always used them for stamina anyways on PTS.

Imo, softcaps needs to come back, but less restricted. But as of now a balanced build is useless. It seems to me that if you want any build to kinda work you need to *atleast* push over the 30k mark no matter the attribute.

(this is simply from the dueling that have been done, since we EU peeps are behaving too nice for any chaotic open world pvp to kick of)

Ezareth · February 2015

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

So, impossible to go OOM as sorc on PTS, Deadric mines are a joke aswell. Overall burst damage with most builds is silly. It feels like im playing the Call of duty of MMOS.

First off, how is magicka sustain a sorc relevant thing? Every magicka build can sustain better than before due to champion system passives. Sorcs don't get much of a bonus on this. Also when we dueled yesterday you admitted you had to chug 20 potions (I had to do the same) despite me feeding your Harness Magicka all the time, so how exactly is that not going out of OOM. Unless you intend to chug potions on cooldown in open PvP as well.

But yeah, overall damage with min/maxed builds is very very high. One mistake and you're dead. It's what happens when soft caps are removed willy nilly.

I get what you say, but ive been chuggin potions of cooldown for months, granted on PTS i chugg lots of them when it isnt even needed, since i have an infinite ammount avaible to me. And to be fair, before i even knew trhat the templates had acces too tri stat pots (a tad weaker then crafted potions) i still had no issues with magica. I always used them for stamina anyways on PTS.

Imo, softcaps needs to come back, but less restricted. But as of now a balanced build is useless. It seems to me that if you want any build to kinda work you need to *atleast* push over the 30k mark no matter the attribute.

(this is simply from the dueling that have been done, since we EU peeps are behaving too nice for any chaotic open world pvp to kick of)

Re instituting softcaps in any way would be a huge mistake.

Others have said it and I'll repeat it, the game shouldn't be balanced around 1 v 1s. A Hybrid build brings far more *utility* than a Min/max pure build by virtue of being a "hybrid".

That said, I don't think they should nerf pure builds as much as offer abilities and passives that reward players somewhat with more mixed allocations. Something along the lines of the undaunted passive that rewards mixing armor types.

Oughash · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

That said, I don't think they should nerf pure builds as much as offer abilities and passives that reward players somewhat with more mixed allocations. Something along the lines of the undaunted passive that rewards mixing armor types.

Except put the passives in the Alliance War tree, and double their effectiveness.

Maulkin · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

So, impossible to go OOM as sorc on PTS, Deadric mines are a joke aswell. Overall burst damage with most builds is silly. It feels like im playing the Call of duty of MMOS.

First off, how is magicka sustain a sorc relevant thing? Every magicka build can sustain better than before due to champion system passives. Sorcs don't get much of a bonus on this. Also when we dueled yesterday you admitted you had to chug 20 potions (I had to do the same) despite me feeding your Harness Magicka all the time, so how exactly is that not going out of OOM. Unless you intend to chug potions on cooldown in open PvP as well.

But yeah, overall damage with min/maxed builds is very very high. One mistake and you're dead. It's what happens when soft caps are removed willy nilly.

I get what you say, but ive been chuggin potions of cooldown for months, granted on PTS i chugg lots of them when it isnt even needed, since i have an infinite ammount avaible to me. And to be fair, before i even knew trhat the templates had acces too tri stat pots (a tad weaker then crafted potions) i still had no issues with magica. I always used them for stamina anyways on PTS.

Imo, softcaps needs to come back, but less restricted. But as of now a balanced build is useless. It seems to me that if you want any build to kinda work you need to *atleast* push over the 30k mark no matter the attribute.

(this is simply from the dueling that have been done, since we EU peeps are behaving too nice for any chaotic open world pvp to kick of)

Re instituting softcaps in any way would be a huge mistake.

Others have said it and I'll repeat it, the game shouldn't be balanced around 1 v 1s. A Hybrid build brings far more *utility* than a Min/max pure build by virtue of being a "hybrid".

That said, I don't think they should nerf pure builds as much as offer abilities and passives that reward players somewhat with more mixed allocations. Something along the lines of the undaunted passive that rewards mixing armor types.

Usually, rewarding mixed allocations means nerfing some stuff that scale off the common allocation (Magicka in this case) like shields and making them scale off something else (like Health). The Undaunted passives were the only exception I can think of on this trend. So I'd be a bit wary if they said they were doing that.

Erondil · February 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

So, impossible to go OOM as sorc on PTS, Deadric mines are a joke aswell. Overall burst damage with most builds is silly. It feels like im playing the Call of duty of MMOS.

First off, how is magicka sustain a sorc relevant thing? Every magicka build can sustain better than before due to champion system passives. Sorcs don't get much of a bonus on this. Also when we dueled yesterday you admitted you had to chug 20 potions (I had to do the same) despite me feeding your Harness Magicka all the time, so how exactly is that not going out of OOM. Unless you intend to chug potions on cooldown in open PvP as well.

But yeah, overall damage with min/maxed builds is very very high. One mistake and you're dead. It's what happens when soft caps are removed willy nilly.

I guess you never tested NB magicka melee on PTS. I have less sustain then on1.5, even with champion passives

Maulkin · February 2015

Erondil wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

So, impossible to go OOM as sorc on PTS, Deadric mines are a joke aswell. Overall burst damage with most builds is silly. It feels like im playing the Call of duty of MMOS.

First off, how is magicka sustain a sorc relevant thing? Every magicka build can sustain better than before due to champion system passives. Sorcs don't get much of a bonus on this. Also when we dueled yesterday you admitted you had to chug 20 potions (I had to do the same) despite me feeding your Harness Magicka all the time, so how exactly is that not going out of OOM. Unless you intend to chug potions on cooldown in open PvP as well.

But yeah, overall damage with min/maxed builds is very very high. One mistake and you're dead. It's what happens when soft caps are removed willy nilly.

I guess you never tested NB magicka melee on PTS. I have less sustain then on1.5, even with champion passives

I have tested NB stamina, not Magicka, to be honest. I had some problems with my V14 Magicka NB char copied from live on the first day EU had their chars copied and he had to be deleted unfortunately.

But when you say melee magicka you mean what? Lotus Fan and Concealed Weapon? Most of the Magicka NBs I've fought were using Crippling Grasp and Funnel Health, occasionally (depending what char I'm playing) charging in by using a morph of Teleport Strike followed by Fear or Incapacitating Strike. They seemed to be coping fine several minutes into the duel.

Erondil · February 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

So, impossible to go OOM as sorc on PTS, Deadric mines are a joke aswell. Overall burst damage with most builds is silly. It feels like im playing the Call of duty of MMOS.

First off, how is magicka sustain a sorc relevant thing? Every magicka build can sustain better than before due to champion system passives. Sorcs don't get much of a bonus on this. Also when we dueled yesterday you admitted you had to chug 20 potions (I had to do the same) despite me feeding your Harness Magicka all the time, so how exactly is that not going out of OOM. Unless you intend to chug potions on cooldown in open PvP as well.

But yeah, overall damage with min/maxed builds is very very high. One mistake and you're dead. It's what happens when soft caps are removed willy nilly.

I guess you never tested NB magicka melee on PTS. I have less sustain then on1.5, even with champion passives

I have tested NB stamina, not Magicka, to be honest. I had some problems with my V14 Magicka NB char copied from live on the first day EU had their chars copied and he had to be deleted unfortunately.

But when you say melee magicka you mean what? Lotus Fan and Concealed Weapon? Most of the Magicka NBs I've fought were using Crippling Grasp and Funnel Health, occasionally (depending what char I'm playing) charging in by using a morph of Teleport Strike followed by Fear or Incapacitating Strike. They seemed to be coping fine several minutes into the duel.

yes, lotus fan and concelead weapon. I would try to change lotus fan for blur, morphed to get speed buff, but this one is sadly bugged. I tried some syphon builds (cripple funnel resto), I did better with, but I prefer melee magicka style by far, so I'm still searching ways