Sorc observations on changes between Live and PTS (updated for 1.61)

RinaldoGandolphi

Im still not sold on Entropy yet. Velicious Curse is just too good to give up, and i can always toggle Radiant Magelight until i get MOG proc before Fragments.

Don't get me wrong, I like what they have done with Entropy, its definitely a better skill now then it is on live, but they have really buffed Velicious Curse too, and Velicious Curse is very good to weave into combos that do a ton of burst all at once by stacking it together with Mage's Wrath procs and such.

im actually leaning towards Power Surge now, gives the same buff, lasts longer, and has a chance to heal now on Crits, and increases the effectiveness of Resto Staff, Destro Staff, and Class abilities for 40 secs.

Its going to be a tough choice between Power Surge and Entropy for a spot on my bar, but im leaning towards Power Surge for its duration, and the fact i can toggle RML to get the MOG passive.

Tankqull

have they reinstalled the GCD to power overload again or is it just the crappy connection to the PTS located in the US for me?

Maulkin

woodsro wrote: »

Im still not sold on Entropy yet. Velicious Curse is just too good to give up, and i can always toggle Radiant Magelight until i get MOG proc before Fragments.

Don't get me wrong, I like what they have done with Entropy, its definitely a better skill now then it is on live, but they have really buffed Velicious Curse too, and Velicious Curse is very good to weave into combos that do a ton of burst all at once by stacking it together with Mage's Wrath procs and such.

Why give up Velocious Curse, are you nuts? XD

It's a must for taking down DKs. Entropy is not competing for a spot on my bar with Velocious Curse, no way. Power Surge is the direct rival. In fact I like how now you have a choice to make, it's not automatic as before.

This is early impressions, but the reason why I'm leaning towards Structured Entropy over Power Surge is:
1) Cheaper
2) Shorter duration, means can make more frequent use of potions if you have to
3) Synergises well with Crushy Shock for heals
4) Damage buff from MoG creates pockets of burst damage

What I don't like about Power Surge, is that you have to have Inner Light as well to increase your chance to get the heals. So really you are sacrificing 3 slots not 1.

The disclaimer here is that it's early impressions. I might have a different opinion in 2 weeks time

Ezareth

Sabre Ali and I were getting absolutely wrecked by this insane Templar build used by this player "Pact Mender" last night. The guy could rip through our shields and practically instagib us by spamming biting jabs. He was also using defensive posture.

After dying like 5 or 6 times to him (Sabre died 10+ times trying everything from Bow to 2 Hander to tronachs) trying everything I could I finally ended up getting my power overload bar set up and finally smoked him with a double overload as he was mid charge on me.

The new power overload is just sick. I only had 1300 spell power and 30K magicka on the template char compared to 1800 spellpower and 32K magicka on my live sorc. I hope of all the changes they keep that one.

Then some Sorcerer with 40K hitpoints was running around wrecking people and was just totally un-killable. I fought him for ages with multiple other people jumping in and dying all the time until I was sure there had to be some new exploit or something he was using for stats...then someone pointed out that he was emperor. derp.

Man Emperor in 1.6 is like the Emperors of yore.......hide yo kids if I ever get that again.

One last thing, I noticed while I was fighting someone that my ultimate generation was not moving for like a full minute despite using both light and heavy attacks. I don't know if you actually have to hit their health with an attack to begin the generation or not but if so that is pretty lame as this person (and soon to be a ton of people) was a shield stacker which if true makes shields that much more powerful than traditional armor.

cozmon3c_ESO

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sabre Ali and I were getting absolutely wrecked by this insane Templar build used by this player "Pact Mender" last night. The guy could rip through our shields and practically instagib us by spamming biting jabs. He was also using defensive posture.

After dying like 5 or 6 times to him (Sabre died 10+ times trying everything from Bow to 2 Hander to tronachs) trying everything I could I finally ended up getting my power overload bar set up and finally smoked him with a double overload as he was mid charge on me.

The new power overload is just sick. I only had 1300 spell power and 30K magicka on the template char compared to 1800 spellpower and 32K magicka on my live sorc. I hope of all the changes they keep that one.

Then some Sorcerer with 40K hitpoints was running around wrecking people and was just totally un-killable. I fought him for ages with multiple other people jumping in and dying all the time until I was sure there had to be some new exploit or something he was using for stats...then someone pointed out that he was emperor. derp.

Man Emperor in 1.6 is like the Emperors of yore.......hide yo kids if I ever get that again.

One last thing, I noticed while I was fighting someone that my ultimate generation was not moving for like a full minute despite using both light and heavy attacks. I don't know if you actually have to hit their health with an attack to begin the generation or not but if so that is pretty lame as this person (and soon to be a ton of people) was a shield stacker which if true makes shields that much more powerful than traditional armor.

i talked with dev eric wrobel last night and he said the next build of pts will fix the issue of light and heavy attacks not triggering ult through shields.

Oughash

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sabre Ali and I were getting absolutely wrecked by this insane Templar build used by this player "Pact Mender" last night. The guy could rip through our shields and practically instagib us by spamming biting jabs. He was also using defensive posture.

After dying like 5 or 6 times to him (Sabre died 10+ times trying everything from Bow to 2 Hander to tronachs) trying everything I could I finally ended up getting my power overload bar set up and finally smoked him with a double overload as he was mid charge on me.

I fought that guy. His build is ridiculous.
Also, I ran into Legendary Mage -- the Sorc crushing shock build with unblockable streak is also ridiculous.

Maulkin

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sabre Ali and I were getting absolutely wrecked by this insane Templar build used by this player "Pact Mender" last night. The guy could rip through our shields and practically instagib us by spamming biting jabs. He was also using defensive posture.

After dying like 5 or 6 times to him (Sabre died 10+ times trying everything from Bow to 2 Hander to tronachs) trying everything I could I finally ended up getting my power overload bar set up and finally smoked him with a double overload as he was mid charge on me.

The new power overload is just sick. I only had 1300 spell power and 30K magicka on the template char compared to 1800 spellpower and 32K magicka on my live sorc. I hope of all the changes they keep that one.

Then some Sorcerer with 40K hitpoints was running around wrecking people and was just totally un-killable. I fought him for ages with multiple other people jumping in and dying all the time until I was sure there had to be some new exploit or something he was using for stats...then someone pointed out that he was emperor. derp.

Man Emperor in 1.6 is like the Emperors of yore.......hide yo kids if I ever get that again.

One last thing, I noticed while I was fighting someone that my ultimate generation was not moving for like a full minute despite using both light and heavy attacks. I don't know if you actually have to hit their health with an attack to begin the generation or not but if so that is pretty lame as this person (and soon to be a ton of people) was a shield stacker which if true makes shields that much more powerful than traditional armor.

I talked with dev eric wrobel last night and he said the next build of pts will fix the issue of light and heavy attacks not triggering ult through shields.

Oh noes, there goes my "I'm not gonna let you build ult" trick! Jokes aside that would be a good change.

Did he say why they picked light/heavy attacks for charging ultie? I never understood the rational of this. What's wrong with resetting the timer every time you deal or take damage regardless of the form of attack? Which could btw, also be the new in/out of combat logic.

Huntler

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sabre Ali and I were getting absolutely wrecked by this insane Templar build used by this player "Pact Mender" last night. The guy could rip through our shields and practically instagib us by spamming biting jabs. He was also using defensive posture.

After dying like 5 or 6 times to him (Sabre died 10+ times trying everything from Bow to 2 Hander to tronachs) trying everything I could I finally ended up getting my power overload bar set up and finally smoked him with a double overload as he was mid charge on me.

The new power overload is just sick. I only had 1300 spell power and 30K magicka on the template char compared to 1800 spellpower and 32K magicka on my live sorc. I hope of all the changes they keep that one.

Then some Sorcerer with 40K hitpoints was running around wrecking people and was just totally un-killable. I fought him for ages with multiple other people jumping in and dying all the time until I was sure there had to be some new exploit or something he was using for stats...then someone pointed out that he was emperor. derp.

Man Emperor in 1.6 is like the Emperors of yore.......hide yo kids if I ever get that again.

One last thing, I noticed while I was fighting someone that my ultimate generation was not moving for like a full minute despite using both light and heavy attacks. I don't know if you actually have to hit their health with an attack to begin the generation or not but if so that is pretty lame as this person (and soon to be a ton of people) was a shield stacker which if true makes shields that much more powerful than traditional armor.

I talked with dev eric wrobel last night and he said the next build of pts will fix the issue of light and heavy attacks not triggering ult through shields.

Oh noes, there goes my "I'm not gonna let you build ult" trick! Jokes aside that would be a good change.

Did he say why they picked light/heavy attacks for charging ultie? I never understood the rational of this. What's wrong with resetting the timer every time you deal or take damage regardless of the form of attack? Which could btw, also be the new in/out of combat logic.

It was to help provide incentive in not block casting. Sure you can still block cast, but you HAVE to drop your shield and light attack every now and then.

Ezareth

Spell Cost Reduction Formulas (lots of maths) - Figuring out how additional cost reduction will affect you is no longer easy or clear. I've been able to create a formula that fits the model within a couple of spell points but it isn't exact like my understanding of this on live. From my testing I've determined that each spell now has a base cost that can't be reduced. This base cost is anywhere between 11-14% of the actual cost of the spell. To figure out what a spell will cost you'll need to figure this base number out. For Bolt Escape for example the base number is 411. So if you take the base cost of the spell (3351) and subtract 411 from it you get the reducible portion of the spell (2940). Multiply this by 1 - .x where X is your total spell cost reduction percentage (excluding the champion reduction which I'll get to). As a sorc wearing full light armor you'll automatically get 36% reduction to your lightning spells so 2940 * .64 = 1881.6. You then add your unreducible cost to this total (411) to get 2293. Many of these numbers I are fractions so the actual cost is 2294. Now if you have 5% reduction from champion points you'd subtract this percentage from this cost so you'd be at 2179. Champion point reduction is calculated after the base cost reduction calculations are done so it is point per point less powerful than those things. Jewelry enchant reductions are another matter altogether. I think I have to modeled out but it is so complicated I'm assuming that the true calculation is much more simple and need to test more. On live I have 3 pieces of jewelry with spell cost reduction. 2 pieces are pre-1.5 patch before VR14 enchants existed which bumped the *tooltip* from 20 to 21 spell cost reduction yet this isn't reflected in the actual reduction of spells. When these items transferred over to PTS the -20 reduction converted to -188 reduction and the -21 converted to -200 reduction yet they ALL provided -211-212 cost reduction per enchant. Basically you can't trust tool tips with any reliability any more (if you ever could). I'm starting to suspect that instead of truly converting every item to a true 1.6 item they just ran some conversion scripts with health/magicka/stat multipliers against every stat and item in the database which turned whole integers into a lot of fractional numbers. This will ensure that an already inefficient code base will run even slower as floating point calculations are expensive. Just my theory from what I've seen of the changes so far.

Ezareth

Huntler wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sabre Ali and I were getting absolutely wrecked by this insane Templar build used by this player "Pact Mender" last night. The guy could rip through our shields and practically instagib us by spamming biting jabs. He was also using defensive posture.

After dying like 5 or 6 times to him (Sabre died 10+ times trying everything from Bow to 2 Hander to tronachs) trying everything I could I finally ended up getting my power overload bar set up and finally smoked him with a double overload as he was mid charge on me.

The new power overload is just sick. I only had 1300 spell power and 30K magicka on the template char compared to 1800 spellpower and 32K magicka on my live sorc. I hope of all the changes they keep that one.

Then some Sorcerer with 40K hitpoints was running around wrecking people and was just totally un-killable. I fought him for ages with multiple other people jumping in and dying all the time until I was sure there had to be some new exploit or something he was using for stats...then someone pointed out that he was emperor. derp.

Man Emperor in 1.6 is like the Emperors of yore.......hide yo kids if I ever get that again.

One last thing, I noticed while I was fighting someone that my ultimate generation was not moving for like a full minute despite using both light and heavy attacks. I don't know if you actually have to hit their health with an attack to begin the generation or not but if so that is pretty lame as this person (and soon to be a ton of people) was a shield stacker which if true makes shields that much more powerful than traditional armor.

I talked with dev eric wrobel last night and he said the next build of pts will fix the issue of light and heavy attacks not triggering ult through shields.

Oh noes, there goes my "I'm not gonna let you build ult" trick! Jokes aside that would be a good change.

Did he say why they picked light/heavy attacks for charging ultie? I never understood the rational of this. What's wrong with resetting the timer every time you deal or take damage regardless of the form of attack? Which could btw, also be the new in/out of combat logic.

It was to help provide incentive in not block casting. Sure you can still block cast, but you HAVE to drop your shield and light attack every now and then.

I rarely block-casted myself as holding block too much as a sorc was a sure way to run out of stamina.

Oddly on PTS I'm finding Combat to be intrinsically more boring compared to live. I'm having more fun since everything is new, but on the surface the skill level of play is reduced. Dodge rolling is no longer affordable, and blocking is no longer worth it where I used to selectively block and dodge roll. Adding in the necessity of light/heavy attacking every 8 seconds doesn't make combat more enjoyable, it makes it more monotonous. The cost to make dodge/roll block more affordable again isn't worth the tradeoff so my only option is to go with a more boring and skillless build that involves just maxing my shields and letting them absorb every attack thrown at me.

I hope they don't solve this issue by nerfing shields to force us to focus more on blocking and dodge rolling as light armor as I pointed out is just absolutely garbage.

Minor beach (why even bother with 75% chance to apply?) is just so much trash. The primary reason to keep light armor is the spell cost reduction.

Maulkin

How did you calculate the unreducable portion of a spell's cost? O.o

Did you hit 100% spell cost reduction somehow and determine the leftover to be that?

cozmon3c_ESO

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sabre Ali and I were getting absolutely wrecked by this insane Templar build used by this player "Pact Mender" last night. The guy could rip through our shields and practically instagib us by spamming biting jabs. He was also using defensive posture.

After dying like 5 or 6 times to him (Sabre died 10+ times trying everything from Bow to 2 Hander to tronachs) trying everything I could I finally ended up getting my power overload bar set up and finally smoked him with a double overload as he was mid charge on me.

The new power overload is just sick. I only had 1300 spell power and 30K magicka on the template char compared to 1800 spellpower and 32K magicka on my live sorc. I hope of all the changes they keep that one.

Then some Sorcerer with 40K hitpoints was running around wrecking people and was just totally un-killable. I fought him for ages with multiple other people jumping in and dying all the time until I was sure there had to be some new exploit or something he was using for stats...then someone pointed out that he was emperor. derp.

Man Emperor in 1.6 is like the Emperors of yore.......hide yo kids if I ever get that again.

One last thing, I noticed while I was fighting someone that my ultimate generation was not moving for like a full minute despite using both light and heavy attacks. I don't know if you actually have to hit their health with an attack to begin the generation or not but if so that is pretty lame as this person (and soon to be a ton of people) was a shield stacker which if true makes shields that much more powerful than traditional armor.

I talked with dev eric wrobel last night and he said the next build of pts will fix the issue of light and heavy attacks not triggering ult through shields.

Oh noes, there goes my "I'm not gonna let you build ult" trick! Jokes aside that would be a good change.

Did he say why they picked light/heavy attacks for charging ultie? I never understood the rational of this. What's wrong with resetting the timer every time you deal or take damage regardless of the form of attack? Which could btw, also be the new in/out of combat logic.

He said hes looking into blocking and dodge rolling starting the ult counter as well. this should help with tanks and rewards those who can avoid damage. if we see this in 1.6 is unknown.

Ezareth

You calculate it by knowing the unmodified actual base cost of a spell (Easy to determine by creating a fresh template character) and then picking a known percentage of spell cost reduction multipliers, dividing that by it's percentage and multiplying it by 100. Now since there is a lot of rounding involved the number you get (since it is reported as a whole number) will never be exact. The best you can do is get as close to 50% reduction as possible and use that number to determine it.

Let's take ball lightning for example. 3351 is the base cost( It could actually be 3350.50 or 3351.49 we don't know).

With just the sorc passives and light armor you should get - 36% to cost(2145) but it changes to 2294. Subtract 2294 from 3351 to get 1057. Divide that by 36 and multiply it by 100 to get your reducible base (2936.11~). The difference between THIS and your true base is the unmitigateable portion of the spell (in this case 415 but using 52% reduction worked out to 412.54 which is all within rounding error).

I've plotted this formula with 3,5,10,15,18,36,44,52% spell reduction and number that is reduced by each percentage is definitely linear and follows the reduction (within rounding) exactly.

I was able to get to 92% spell reduction on crystal fragments (with the proc -50% reduction which is additive at least on live) and my spell cost was 693 instead of something closer to 100. This is how I was able to determine that there is a portion of each spell that simply cannot be reduced by spell cost reduction percentages.

All in all this is very stupid and quite confusing for someone who picks a passive that they think is providing them -5% cost reduction to their spells when in reality it is -4.6% or something.

Ezareth

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sabre Ali and I were getting absolutely wrecked by this insane Templar build used by this player "Pact Mender" last night. The guy could rip through our shields and practically instagib us by spamming biting jabs. He was also using defensive posture.

After dying like 5 or 6 times to him (Sabre died 10+ times trying everything from Bow to 2 Hander to tronachs) trying everything I could I finally ended up getting my power overload bar set up and finally smoked him with a double overload as he was mid charge on me.

The new power overload is just sick. I only had 1300 spell power and 30K magicka on the template char compared to 1800 spellpower and 32K magicka on my live sorc. I hope of all the changes they keep that one.

Then some Sorcerer with 40K hitpoints was running around wrecking people and was just totally un-killable. I fought him for ages with multiple other people jumping in and dying all the time until I was sure there had to be some new exploit or something he was using for stats...then someone pointed out that he was emperor. derp.

Man Emperor in 1.6 is like the Emperors of yore.......hide yo kids if I ever get that again.

One last thing, I noticed while I was fighting someone that my ultimate generation was not moving for like a full minute despite using both light and heavy attacks. I don't know if you actually have to hit their health with an attack to begin the generation or not but if so that is pretty lame as this person (and soon to be a ton of people) was a shield stacker which if true makes shields that much more powerful than traditional armor.

I talked with dev eric wrobel last night and he said the next build of pts will fix the issue of light and heavy attacks not triggering ult through shields.

Oh noes, there goes my "I'm not gonna let you build ult" trick! Jokes aside that would be a good change.

Did he say why they picked light/heavy attacks for charging ultie? I never understood the rational of this. What's wrong with resetting the timer every time you deal or take damage regardless of the form of attack? Which could btw, also be the new in/out of combat logic.

He said hes looking into blocking and dodge rolling starting the ult counter as well. this should help with tanks and rewards those who can avoid damage. if we see this in 1.6 is unknown.

If pretty much everything we do starts the ult generation counter then what is the point? Why not just give us "Ultimate regen" that starts once you're in combat if the goal was the normalize ultimate generation between all players.

I for one thing the ultimate changes just make no sense. Why not continue tweaking the existing system instead of creating and entirely new (and untested) system?

Huntler

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sabre Ali and I were getting absolutely wrecked by this insane Templar build used by this player "Pact Mender" last night. The guy could rip through our shields and practically instagib us by spamming biting jabs. He was also using defensive posture.

After dying like 5 or 6 times to him (Sabre died 10+ times trying everything from Bow to 2 Hander to tronachs) trying everything I could I finally ended up getting my power overload bar set up and finally smoked him with a double overload as he was mid charge on me.

The new power overload is just sick. I only had 1300 spell power and 30K magicka on the template char compared to 1800 spellpower and 32K magicka on my live sorc. I hope of all the changes they keep that one.

Then some Sorcerer with 40K hitpoints was running around wrecking people and was just totally un-killable. I fought him for ages with multiple other people jumping in and dying all the time until I was sure there had to be some new exploit or something he was using for stats...then someone pointed out that he was emperor. derp.

Man Emperor in 1.6 is like the Emperors of yore.......hide yo kids if I ever get that again.

One last thing, I noticed while I was fighting someone that my ultimate generation was not moving for like a full minute despite using both light and heavy attacks. I don't know if you actually have to hit their health with an attack to begin the generation or not but if so that is pretty lame as this person (and soon to be a ton of people) was a shield stacker which if true makes shields that much more powerful than traditional armor.

I talked with dev eric wrobel last night and he said the next build of pts will fix the issue of light and heavy attacks not triggering ult through shields.

Oh noes, there goes my "I'm not gonna let you build ult" trick! Jokes aside that would be a good change.

Did he say why they picked light/heavy attacks for charging ultie? I never understood the rational of this. What's wrong with resetting the timer every time you deal or take damage regardless of the form of attack? Which could btw, also be the new in/out of combat logic.

He said hes looking into blocking and dodge rolling starting the ult counter as well. this should help with tanks and rewards those who can avoid damage. if we see this in 1.6 is unknown.

If pretty much everything we do starts the ult generation counter then what is the point? Why not just give us "Ultimate regen" that starts once you're in combat if the goal was the normalize ultimate generation between all players.

I for one thing the ultimate changes just make no sense. Why not continue tweaking the existing system instead of creating and entirely new (and untested) system?

^^^ go the warhammer online route imo. In combat you generate ultimate (morale), out of combat for too long it slowly decays. This whole light attack thing just begs for people to run around light attacking wolves and garbage to have ultis to drop immediately in the fight.

s.golzarib16_ESO

Thanks for sharing your findings. I found it useful and interesting.

Ezareth

Huntler wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sabre Ali and I were getting absolutely wrecked by this insane Templar build used by this player "Pact Mender" last night. The guy could rip through our shields and practically instagib us by spamming biting jabs. He was also using defensive posture.

After dying like 5 or 6 times to him (Sabre died 10+ times trying everything from Bow to 2 Hander to tronachs) trying everything I could I finally ended up getting my power overload bar set up and finally smoked him with a double overload as he was mid charge on me.

The new power overload is just sick. I only had 1300 spell power and 30K magicka on the template char compared to 1800 spellpower and 32K magicka on my live sorc. I hope of all the changes they keep that one.

Then some Sorcerer with 40K hitpoints was running around wrecking people and was just totally un-killable. I fought him for ages with multiple other people jumping in and dying all the time until I was sure there had to be some new exploit or something he was using for stats...then someone pointed out that he was emperor. derp.

Man Emperor in 1.6 is like the Emperors of yore.......hide yo kids if I ever get that again.

One last thing, I noticed while I was fighting someone that my ultimate generation was not moving for like a full minute despite using both light and heavy attacks. I don't know if you actually have to hit their health with an attack to begin the generation or not but if so that is pretty lame as this person (and soon to be a ton of people) was a shield stacker which if true makes shields that much more powerful than traditional armor.

I talked with dev eric wrobel last night and he said the next build of pts will fix the issue of light and heavy attacks not triggering ult through shields.

Oh noes, there goes my "I'm not gonna let you build ult" trick! Jokes aside that would be a good change.

Did he say why they picked light/heavy attacks for charging ultie? I never understood the rational of this. What's wrong with resetting the timer every time you deal or take damage regardless of the form of attack? Which could btw, also be the new in/out of combat logic.

He said hes looking into blocking and dodge rolling starting the ult counter as well. this should help with tanks and rewards those who can avoid damage. if we see this in 1.6 is unknown.

If pretty much everything we do starts the ult generation counter then what is the point? Why not just give us "Ultimate regen" that starts once you're in combat if the goal was the normalize ultimate generation between all players.

I for one thing the ultimate changes just make no sense. Why not continue tweaking the existing system instead of creating and entirely new (and untested) system?

^^^ go the warhammer online route imo. In combat you generate ultimate (morale), out of combat for too long it slowly decays. This whole light attack thing just begs for people to run around light attacking wolves and garbage to have ultis to drop immediately in the fight.

Actually Murder Thumbs and I used to do just that back when ultimate used to fully decay every 5 minutes or so. That was annoying as hell as we were always fighting to get to the wolves first for the ult.

I like combat complexity not normalization. If I store up 1000 ultimate in combat I should be able to use that. I just think they need to make ultimate generation something interesting. It *is* interesting on live but they need to tweak the numbers a bit and fix some of the issues around it like spamming heals on full health people to build ult and the fact you can't build ult through shields.

Fruitdog

Those stupid zombies between Sej and BRK just became way more important. Also, groups will now race to take resources. I can see large raids taking resources with just light attacks in order to make the ult gen last as long as possible.

Juraigr

Totally agree on the ulti changes they in reality make no sense, an 8 month old game has basically been re-released due to the b2p influx.

Imo zos has completely disregarded those who have sat through all the bs 'while paying mind you' and just decided to listen to the majority of window washing mouth breathers completely broken a decent game, now everyone will play the same archtype builds, just look at pts every sorc is more or less playing the same.

Also the new animations are clunky and complete fucki*g shi*t imo

cozmon3c_ESO

Huntler wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sabre Ali and I were getting absolutely wrecked by this insane Templar build used by this player "Pact Mender" last night. The guy could rip through our shields and practically instagib us by spamming biting jabs. He was also using defensive posture.

After dying like 5 or 6 times to him (Sabre died 10+ times trying everything from Bow to 2 Hander to tronachs) trying everything I could I finally ended up getting my power overload bar set up and finally smoked him with a double overload as he was mid charge on me.

The new power overload is just sick. I only had 1300 spell power and 30K magicka on the template char compared to 1800 spellpower and 32K magicka on my live sorc. I hope of all the changes they keep that one.

Then some Sorcerer with 40K hitpoints was running around wrecking people and was just totally un-killable. I fought him for ages with multiple other people jumping in and dying all the time until I was sure there had to be some new exploit or something he was using for stats...then someone pointed out that he was emperor. derp.

Man Emperor in 1.6 is like the Emperors of yore.......hide yo kids if I ever get that again.

One last thing, I noticed while I was fighting someone that my ultimate generation was not moving for like a full minute despite using both light and heavy attacks. I don't know if you actually have to hit their health with an attack to begin the generation or not but if so that is pretty lame as this person (and soon to be a ton of people) was a shield stacker which if true makes shields that much more powerful than traditional armor.

I talked with dev eric wrobel last night and he said the next build of pts will fix the issue of light and heavy attacks not triggering ult through shields.

Oh noes, there goes my "I'm not gonna let you build ult" trick! Jokes aside that would be a good change.

Did he say why they picked light/heavy attacks for charging ultie? I never understood the rational of this. What's wrong with resetting the timer every time you deal or take damage regardless of the form of attack? Which could btw, also be the new in/out of combat logic.

He said hes looking into blocking and dodge rolling starting the ult counter as well. this should help with tanks and rewards those who can avoid damage. if we see this in 1.6 is unknown.

If pretty much everything we do starts the ult generation counter then what is the point? Why not just give us "Ultimate regen" that starts once you're in combat if the goal was the normalize ultimate generation between all players.

I for one thing the ultimate changes just make no sense. Why not continue tweaking the existing system instead of creating and entirely new (and untested) system?

^^^ go the warhammer online route imo. In combat you generate ultimate (morale), out of combat for too long it slowly decays. This whole light attack thing just begs for people to run around light attacking wolves and garbage to have ultis to drop immediately in the fight.

We went over the in combat for ultimate gen with Eric worbel as well. Eric basically said they cannot do that because you could be in a group in Cyrodiil and one of your group members is halfway accross the map in combat with someone, which in turn puts you in combat even though you are no where near a fight. they first need to fix the in combat and out of combat issues, hell I get put in combat when I'm not even near a fight and I'm not even in a group, this happens randomly all the time. I wasn't really asking for this ultimate change either but it really does make the ult gains between classes way more even then it was, which I see as an upside to this new system.

Edit phone doing stupid spelling

Erondil

Honnestly, sorcs are too OP with 1.6.1 I dueled the all day with my NB and my sorc, tried differents build, and I won more duels with my vr6 alt sorc than with my vr14 NB. Just stack off max magicka, damages are insane, CF for 14k, overload 10K on TT... Its like deathstroke, but Death stroke cost 50ult (overload around 10) and is a melee ult. Destro sorcs got the best ult generation on PTS since they can light attack everytime (not my melee NB). The shield stack+ BoL absorbing all spelldamages (even concelead weapon and impale) make the sorc almost imba, with the best damages.
On the other hand, my poor NB melee hit for 5K concelead weapon max if I stack up Entropy, Might of the Guild and Grim focus, as many magicka as I can. No class shield, no damages... You don't gain ult and grim focus doesnt proc when you hit a shield too, so you never get ult agaisnt sorcs.
Every kind of magicka builds I tried out on my NB, I never won agaisnt some good sorcs, while on live its 50/50.

Ezareth

Erondil wrote: »

Honnestly, sorcs are too OP with 1.6.1 I dueled the all day with my NB and my sorc, tried differents build, and I won more duels with my vr6 alt sorc than with my vr14 NB. Just stack off max magicka, damages are insane, CF for 14k, overload 10K on TT... Its like deathstroke, but Death stroke cost 50ult (overload around 10) and is a melee ult. Destro sorcs got the best ult generation on PTS since they can light attack everytime (not my melee NB). The shield stack+ BoL absorbing all spelldamages (even concelead weapon and impale) make the sorc almost imba, with the best damages.
On the other hand, my poor NB melee hit for 5K concelead weapon max if I stack up Entropy, Might of the Guild and Grim focus, as many magicka as I can. No class shield, no damages... You don't gain ult and grim focus doesnt proc when you hit a shield too, so you never get ult agaisnt sorcs.
Every kind of magicka builds I tried out on my NB, I never won agaisnt some good sorcs, while on live its 50/50.

Not trying to be disrespectful here but your scenarios are just not believable. 14K CF just isn't possible on a VR6 Sorc... I was only able to hit 14K CF crits on my sorc by stacking CF Proc, Empower, Major Prophecy, and 45 champion points into magick damage with the Shadow Mundus stone. This was with full penetration against a naked character with no crit reduction while I was in a high spell power legendary set with 32K Magicka. I was able to get 10K Power overload attacks but those were crits and overload is easily countered.

Ball of Lightning doesn't absorb concealed weapon or Impale either. The issue about generating ult through shields is being addressed as mentioned earlier.

One thing I found on PTS is the skill level overall of the players is far greater than what you find in live. Hell half of the people I've seen on live I know as they are all good players and I don't really know anyone.

Lava_Croft

Currently on PTS, you can barely get through a Sorcerer's shields while they are more than able to burst you down with some very impressive damage. You gain no Ultimate and Grim Focus never procs on them either, but this should be solved soon.

I have yet to find any Light Armor Nightblade setup that can even remotely deal with this. You need the Health because you have no good shields but you also need the Magicka to do damage and have any kind of meaningful sustain. Most of the time all you do as a Magicka NB is cast Harness Magicka, cast Healing Ward, cast Harness Magicka, Cast Healing Ward and so on.

Either I've yet to find something useful, I simply suck or something is not entirely right on the game's end.

Disclaimer: Obviously I suck, so I beat you to it.

Ezareth

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Currently on PTS, you can barely get through a Sorcerer's shields while they are more than able to burst you down with some very impressive damage. You gain no Ultimate and Grim Focus never procs on them either, but this should be solved soon.

I have yet to find any Light Armor Nightblade setup that can even remotely deal with this. You need the Health because you have no good shields but you also need the Magicka to do damage and have any kind of meaningful sustain. Most of the time all you do as a Magicka NB is cast Harness Magicka, cast Healing Ward, cast Harness Magicka, Cast Healing Ward and so on.

Either I've yet to find something useful, I simply suck or something is not entirely right on the game's end.

Disclaimer: Obviously I suck, so I beat you to it.

I have a feeling this is going to be one of those situations where many people are going to have to change their playstyle. The old metas are changing. LA Night Blades are probably going to go the way of Sorc-tank.

I know next to nothing about NBs other than how to kill them, perhaps @araxleon or @brizz can give advice on what your other options are.

Erondil

I think NB magicka melee need a small buff on damages, at least get as many damages as on live (On live, surprise attack TT 520, same gear on PTS 3600. Magicka maxed on PTS 4300). Caster syphon suck too because no class shield, like Kris said. If we want burst, stamina seems to be the only viable way. And I personally dont like stamina. Btw its not the good thread to talk about that.

Erondil

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Honnestly, sorcs are too OP with 1.6.1 I dueled the all day with my NB and my sorc, tried differents build, and I won more duels with my vr6 alt sorc than with my vr14 NB. Just stack off max magicka, damages are insane, CF for 14k, overload 10K on TT... Its like deathstroke, but Death stroke cost 50ult (overload around 10) and is a melee ult. Destro sorcs got the best ult generation on PTS since they can light attack everytime (not my melee NB). The shield stack+ BoL absorbing all spelldamages (even concelead weapon and impale) make the sorc almost imba, with the best damages.
On the other hand, my poor NB melee hit for 5K concelead weapon max if I stack up Entropy, Might of the Guild and Grim focus, as many magicka as I can. No class shield, no damages... You don't gain ult and grim focus doesnt proc when you hit a shield too, so you never get ult agaisnt sorcs.
Every kind of magicka builds I tried out on my NB, I never won agaisnt some good sorcs, while on live its 50/50.

Not trying to be disrespectful here but your scenarios are just not believable. 14K CF just isn't possible on a VR6 Sorc... I was only able to hit 14K CF crits on my sorc by stacking CF Proc, Empower, Major Prophecy, and 45 champion points into magick damage with the Shadow Mundus stone. This was with full penetration against a naked character with no crit reduction while I was in a high spell power legendary set with 32K Magicka. I was able to get 10K Power overload attacks but those were crits and overload is easily countered.

Ball of Lightning doesn't absorb concealed weapon or Impale either. The issue about generating ult through shields is being addressed as mentioned earlier.

One thing I found on PTS is the skill level overall of the players is far greater than what you find in live. Hell half of the people I've seen on live I know as they are all good players and I don't really know anyone.

I dont get 14kCF with my vr6 ofc (10k max or smth) but that is something I often took. Same for overload (mine 8kTT). Im 100% sure BoL absorbs impale, I got a sorc stunned at 11% hp once, BoL absorbed 3 impales, he broke cc, shield stack and full hp again . Im not sure for concelead weapon, because I didnt test my self, but some ppl on Arena guild chat told me BoL absorbs all spell attack (concelead wep is one on1.6), exactly like harness magicka does.

Players going on PTS are mostly good player theorycrafting for their new builds, and rarely casuals. I had this feeling to

Teargrants

@Satiar too, pro Nub Blade.

Satiar

The bat signal should not be used flippantly, Commissioner Teargrants.

Teargrants

@Satiar I'll use it as flippantly as I please, I'm a sorc you can't make me conform to your stale non bolt escape ways.

Satiar

Stupid phone