tinythinker wrote: »I've included a good bit of info, some may be of interest, some may not, so please skip to whatever you find useful.
Qualifiers:
- I have two VR characters that use all weapons, and one is at 50 with all but a couple (which are high 40s), but I wanted to try out a class I've only recently started leveling, a Nightblade, to see what might work at higher levels.
- I also want to be able to provide leveling feedback if needed, so I used the VR12 template and the medium armor gear that came with it (the entire Orphidian Set). I didn't use jewelry for this brief initial test, nor potions, to get a better sense of things since I was decked out in all legendary gear. Weapon was Greatsword of Advancing Yokuda (base damage 164).
- Race set to Argonian, while attributes set to 30 magicka, 20 health, 10 stamina.
- All passives for relevant skill lines were taken, and the game starts you at max rank for all active abilties.
- My opponents were generic overland Craglorn mobs, like dunerippers, giant scorpions and wasps, etc
- I also decided to use a few abilities or morphs I've never tried or just never use; hence, I had no practice using them (together). The results are from someone who just threw a bar together and ran off to see how it worked.
Skill Bar
One bar was Two Handed, the other Bow, and since this is a Two Hander thread I will comment only on the former (though I was pleasantly surprised by the latter).
1- Shadowy Disguise (have used a good bit leveling lowbie NB)
Nightblade ability from Shadow skill line, morph of Shadowcloak. It grants invisibility for 2.9 seconds and grants 100% spell & weapon critical chance.
2- Wrecking Blow (rarely used on VR14 DK and VR12 Templar)
Two Handed ability, morph of Uppercut. It deals 566 damage, stuns target for 3.5 seconds, and knocks back target 4 meters. Next attack (other than Wrecking Blow) gains 50 weapon power. Both morphs were given reduced cast time and increased damage for Update 1.5.
3-Focused Attacks (never used before)
Nightblade ability from Assassination skill line, morph of Haste. It increases the speed of light and heavy attacks by 30% and increases stamina recovery while in combat by 40%.
4-Leeching Strikes (never used before)
Nightblade ability from Siphoning skill line, morph of Siphoning Strikes. It toggles (at no magicka cost) to return 3% magicka/stamina and 2% health per light/heavy attack, with a 10% chance each blow to restore 15% stamina/magicka. In exchange, the player's weapon/spell damage is decreased by 22%.
5-Rally (never used before)
Two Handed ability, morph of Momentum. Significantly altered in Update 1.5, it increases Two Handed weapon damage by a flat 20% for 33 seconds and heals the caster every two seconds and increases value over time. Can be activated again for instant heal.
Results & Discussion
The idea was to try out an average, rather than a min-maxed, build as well as to try out new abilities and combinations that revolve around the changes to the Two Handed skill line.
I really enjoyed it, but there are some wrinkles to be ironed out (or at least rotations to be refined and practiced). The bar above is mean to focus on single-target damage, and it does that very well. It also focuses on basic weapon attacks.
It's also a simple to use bar. Slot 4 is simply left toggled on and 3 and 5 are periodically refreshed. Slots 1 and 2 are used as needed. For example, stealth and approach the target, activate Shadowy Disguise for critical hit, then start the Wrecking Blow. The target is now knocked back and stunned and you are primed for an extra 50 weapon power on your next swing - a heavy attack. That attack will be rapid, as will the next, which will benefit from a 10% increase in damage thanks to the new Follow Up passive. (That passive as well as the buff from Rally negate the debuff from Leeching Strikes.)
At that point, you can just repeat the above scenario. I chose instead to follow with another Wrecking Blow and some rapid heavy attacks before using Shadowy Disguise again, given that my character is benefiting from doing so in gains to attack speed, damage, and resource return. The specifics of the fight will determine if a change is needed from blow to blow.
I also tried swapping in Reverse Slice, which in this update has an increased area of effect and can hit more targets, for Wrecking Blow, to see how it handled the duneripper adds. My assessment was that it was less than impressive in that regard, so I simply swapped over to Bow and used the new snare added to Bombard and the increased damage per tick/longer effect of Volley to weaken them before swapping back to try Reverse Slice again. Goodbye adds.
After all, Reverse Slash and its morphs are meant to be finishers for low health targets. Perhaps Cleave instead of Shadowy Disguise and Reverse Slice instead of Wrecking Blow would fit better for multiple mob battles if you didn't want to swap to a different bar for AoE, especially now that Cleave hits for more damage and can hit for critical damage on top of that. Or, just go both bars for Two Handed and get the best of both setups if you don't mind losing a ranged option.
The changes from 1.5 really make the idea of a (Nightblade) build centered on regular Two Handed weapon attacks much more appealing as you can keep going and going like the Energizer Bunny while piling on the damage.
Concerns
In one-on-one fights the bar worked really, really well and I was never worried about resource management unless my opponent summoned adds. However, at times Wrecking Blow didn't want to activate. On one occasion I was using Shadowy Disguise and on another I was not. It just didn't want to activate. And there was no cool-down as I could go right from one Wrecking Blow into another (and sacrifice the weapon power bonus, not recommended).
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »One of the reasons a lot of stamina builds fail is they try to hard to be hybrid. The sad truth is you are either a stamina build or a magic a build.
Effective Magicka builds can use stamina skills for utility.
Effective Stamina builds can use magicka skills for utility.
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »One of the reasons a lot of stamina builds fail is they try to hard to be hybrid. The sad truth is you are either a stamina build or a magic a build.
Effective Magicka builds can use stamina skills for utility.
Effective Stamina builds can use magicka skills for utility.
But isn't that the problem? Total magic build don't need stamina at all. You have no choice to use them both with stamina builds. A total stamina build is unplayable.
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »One of the reasons a lot of stamina builds fail is they try to hard to be hybrid. The sad truth is you are either a stamina build or a magic a build.
Effective Magicka builds can use stamina skills for utility.
Effective Stamina builds can use magicka skills for utility.
But isn't that the problem? Total magic build don't need stamina at all. You have no choice to use them both with stamina builds. A total stamina build is unplayable.
100% incorrect.
1.4k sustained single target DPS. On PTS I do even more. I use magicka only as utility.
However, just because it can be done doesn't mean there aren't issues. There are a select group of skills each class MAINLY uses. The rest are fodder. IMO the long awaited buffs to the not very used class skills needs to have happened yesterday.
guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »One of the reasons a lot of stamina builds fail is they try to hard to be hybrid. The sad truth is you are either a stamina build or a magic a build.
Effective Magicka builds can use stamina skills for utility.
Effective Stamina builds can use magicka skills for utility.
But isn't that the problem? Total magic build don't need stamina at all. You have no choice to use them both with stamina builds. A total stamina build is unplayable.
100% incorrect.
1.4k sustained single target DPS. On PTS I do even more. I use magicka only as utility.
However, just because it can be done doesn't mean there aren't issues. There are a select group of skills each class MAINLY uses. The rest are fodder. IMO the long awaited buffs to the not very used class skills needs to have happened yesterday.
Seeing that you seem to have some experience with the melee sorc builds, how are they holding up resource-wise in prolonged sustained dps scenarios?
I'm contemplating rolling one and am torn between imp and redguard; the resource generation of redguard seems to be really strong on paper, but I don't know if I'd get much out of it if the rotation is already sustainable from just potions and heavy attacks.
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »One of the reasons a lot of stamina builds fail is they try to hard to be hybrid. The sad truth is you are either a stamina build or a magic a build.
Effective Magicka builds can use stamina skills for utility.
Effective Stamina builds can use magicka skills for utility.
But isn't that the problem? Total magic build don't need stamina at all. You have no choice to use them both with stamina builds. A total stamina build is unplayable.
100% incorrect.
1.4k sustained single target DPS. On PTS I do even more. I use magicka only as utility.
However, just because it can be done doesn't mean there aren't issues. There are a select group of skills each class MAINLY uses. The rest are fodder. IMO the long awaited buffs to the not very used class skills needs to have happened yesterday.
tinythinker wrote: »The idea was to try out an average, rather than a min-maxed, build as well as to try out new abilities and combinations that revolve around the changes to the Two Handed skill line.
As I originally wrote, my goal wasn't to do a min-max test, it was to try to see how the abilities functioned for an average, run of the mill build. The kind many players have. If I had wanted to min-max, I would have gone the standard route and chosen Redguard or Imperial or the like for more stamina bonuses, putting more attribute points into stamina, and so on.ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Your base stamina is to low to make good use of stamina abilities.
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »IMO wrecking blow is not a viable skill to have on your bar. Takes to long to use.
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »IMO wrecking blow is not a viable skill to have on your bar. Takes to long to use.
LOL, welcome to the party pal.... Not sure if I will be able to sustain stamina...ExiledKhallisi wrote: »IMO wrecking blow is not a viable skill to have on your bar. Takes to long to use.
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »IMO wrecking blow is not a viable skill to have on your bar. Takes to long to use.
You do 1400 sustained DPS in PVE as a 2h user and you don't use wrecking blow?
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »IMO wrecking blow is not a viable skill to have on your bar. Takes to long to use.
It's great for single target damage...if there is only a single target agro'd on you. The hardest problem I have with 2H is more than 3 mobs. Not really sure how to handle that many more with just weapon skills. But I guess that's what my sorc skills are for. Use magic for stuns or damage mitigation.
This is why I'm a little uncertain about the Rally morph. It uses stamina, right? I have been using crit surge for my heals since my crit chance is pretty high and crit rush is guaranteed heal. I like that cause I don't use my magic pool for anything else (except constant Bound Armaments). Now I have Rally (a better utility for me) pulling from stamina. Not sure if I will be able to sustain stamina...
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »IMO wrecking blow is not a viable skill to have on your bar. Takes to long to use.
You do 1400 sustained DPS in PVE as a 2h user and you don't use wrecking blow?
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »IMO wrecking blow is not a viable skill to have on your bar. Takes to long to use.
You do 1400 sustained DPS in PVE as a 2h user and you don't use wrecking blow?
Not 1.4k but on just a non boss mob its hard to get to that point as damage goes up with momentum (this all changes with 1.5 with the flat 20%) Still a vr5 Giant from Cyrodil north of bleakers.
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »IMO wrecking blow is not a viable skill to have on your bar. Takes to long to use.
It's great for single target damage...if there is only a single target agro'd on you. The hardest problem I have with 2H is more than 3 mobs. Not really sure how to handle that many more with just weapon skills. But I guess that's what my sorc skills are for. Use magic for stuns or damage mitigation.
This is why I'm a little uncertain about the Rally morph. It uses stamina, right? I have been using crit surge for my heals since my crit chance is pretty high and crit rush is guaranteed heal. I like that cause I don't use my magic pool for anything else (except constant Bound Armaments). Now I have Rally (a better utility for me) pulling from stamina. Not sure if I will be able to sustain stamina...