Official Discussion Thread for "The Road Ahead - August 20"

ularis · August 2014

Agan no PVP content , no smaller scale pvp nothing good bye eso .

DyingBreed · August 2014

Auricle wrote: »

DyingBreed wrote: »

Just keep the blinders on because you are paying for a beta game along with the other 3 that agreed.

So let's say a new restaurant opened in your area, and you went to try it out. Do you feel as if you should not pay for the meal because the establishment is new and untested, despite the hard work that went into opening it?

Or, maybe, a new magazine comes out, in a subject area you find interesting. Should it be free because you found a typo on page three and an article you disagreed with on page twelve?

My point here is simply that ESO is a complex creation that many, many people have poured their blood, sweat and tears into. No, it is not perfect. Perfection is an unobtainable goal. What you're paying for is the experience of Tamriel, and for the chance to be a part of the game's evolution. MMOs are never released as 'finished products'. They are not static. That is why so many people devote so much time to them, because you never know what's just around the corner.

You claim we're paying for a beta game. So what? I may not be perfectly happy with every single element of ESO, but I am more than willing to pay people to continue developing it. If every person stopped contributing towards anything they were not one hundred percent satisfied with, there would be no roads, no hospitals, no society.

Be open to the world and the world shall open up to you. In MMOs and IRL.

The thing is most establishments would Have the simple stuff that has been going on for more the a decade fixed before the doors opened.Just like you said with the restaurant yes I think I should have to pay but not if they say sorry we did not know we needed tables for people to sit at to eat.That is like the guild bank that holds all your stuff it is STILL BROKE months later.how lond do you think that restaurant would be open if they still did not have tables?And you said never know what is around the corner i don't care what is around the corner if you cant get to the corner to start with. AKA crashes and errors.like the BIG UPDATE 3 lol added dyes and changed pvp and fixed some quest bugs,But Still did not fix the things people use or would use everyday if it worked right (guild bank and group finder)but we have pretty colors that they wasted their time on not saying it was not good but why paint a broken wall?

Selique · August 2014

Any word for Chat Bubbles yet? /hopeful.

Vrienda · August 2014

I wanna know more about Wrothgar! When can we expect to see it? What minimum level do we have to be?

Also, with the apparent changes to gear coming, will the VR rank requirements on gear go away? So i don't have to be...say VR12 to do trials? Will my power be the same at VR1 as at VR12?

Acemcfly101 · August 2014

Ah.. What to say about the Champion System...

I understand the concept here, and I think that in some ways it could be a positive thing, but I get the overwhelming impression that this whole idea feels like playing with fire. I think there are so many variables involved with satisfying players and maintaning a challenge and so many changes invovled that... and I don't want to make it sound like I have no faith in Zenimax to implement it properly but... I have a really bad feeling about this.

First and foremost, I want to stress my strong opposition to the concept of removing Veteran points and making VR experience based like 1-50. Zeni has been talking about this for a while (the main concept being Vet content not feeling like you are "forced" to group) but honestly, I think you are making a bad move by taking some people's difficulty complaints and making the game easier because of it. Granted, I have not done extensive resaerch into this, but from what I've seen, it seems like "phase one" of the VR nerf did not really go over too well. I don't see many people saying they love VR content more now. I see a lot of people instead saying that it feels just like 1-50 difficulty and "i'm running through enemies" and "you no longer need food buffs" ect.

In my opinion, 1-50 was very easy and the overwhelming aggrivating factor throughout was that you could not do every quest and maintain a challenge. You leveled way too fast for the content, which led to feeling underchallenged, not recieveing loot from mobs and worst of all, the feeling of rushing through every zone and skipping content as you race against your Exp. meter. I think it would be A LOT wiser to fix those problems about 1-50 instead of doing the opposite and making VR content like them. For me, my only salvation in this game was hitting vet. In DC, I skipped half of Stros Mkai, never went to Betnik, skipped a ton of sidequests, almost every delve and public dungeon, all group dungeons from other alliance zones, half of Alik'r, some of Bangkorai, and I STILL could never shake the race against the experience feeling. I was always underchallenged and I HATE skipping content. It also doesn't help that that the quest markers often remove all realism and immersion by pointing out clues and things you're supposed to find, ect. There's an overwhelming feeling in those instances that the game is intended for toddlers... but that is neither here nor there. Bottom line: There is way too much content in 1-50 for how fast the meter levels. Please do not carry this problem over into Vet now.

Everything else brought up describing the balancing needs of the Champion System (classes, potions, soft caps, player difficulty, changing numbers, ect.) are all problems that are still being addressed and 'fixed' today without the system. I can't help feeling like it is extremely dangerous to implement new questionable variables and throw them into the mix and hope for the best. It also seems like a poor use of time when those things should be tweaked and corrected beforehand. It's like building a house on top or a warped foundation. Please don't get me wrong; There are some things about this Champion System that will most likely be positive and I'm sure a lot of effort is being put into doing it right. All I'm saying, is consider this opinion as I know I speak for many Veteran players when I say, There will always be some players who find situations difficult, but Veteran rank is supposed to be just what it sounds like: for "Veterans." Please do not ruin the best part of this game by making it even REMOTELY seem like levels 51-64. I hope others will say this and you guys reconsider removing Vet points - and if you have to remove them, do it in a different way than it sounds like you have planned. VR has been nerfed enough. Do not make it any easier and do not make it any more like 1-50.

^^All that said, I could totally get behind more ways to level and grow and a new set of points and challenges to add more depth to character growth. Plus I love the look of the constellation board like Skyrim had, but I would throw all that away in an instant if it jeopordizes the difficulty of one more piece of this game!

(Sorry for the long rant everyone.)

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO · August 2014

@acemcfly101 Great post. A bit long but well worded feedback.

I hope I wasn't the only one to read it.

Acemcfly101 · August 2014

@frosth.darkomenb16_ESO‌ Thanks. Lol I hope you wern't either; I was worried about the length. I can only hope that it makes it to the appropriate pairs of eyes in Zenimax and that other players like you back it up like that. Thanks for the comment.

So far, I havn't heard one positive comment in-game on "phase one" of the VR nerf but have heard several negatives. Yet it appears "phase two" is on it's way still with the same outline. Hopefully more people speak up.

Acemcfly101 · August 2014

PS - Zenimax, I know from the PTS that you are implementing some of the most difficult trials and new challenges into the game, however I only see tougher group challenges while you nerf VR solo content. I do appreciate harder trials - I think it's awesome, but I want challenging solo content!

I know you guys put a lot of time and effort into making over 15 pve zones (not counting small island zones) jam-packed with dialogue, quests and achievements. Don't waste it.

zazamalek · August 2014

@Cogo awesome post. I agree with much of your sentiments.

A good example of people not knowing what they are talking about. Up until recently the EU servers were actually located in NA. ZOS's reasoning for this was that if the servers were physically close to them, they would easily be able to diagnose issues on those servers and we'd quickly see those issues resolved. I was (and still am) in full agreement about that strategy. Moving EU to EU could have been pushed out further.

Players moaned about EU lag. Being a player who lives with lag in MMOs (I ping ~200 to EU, ~400 to NA) I'm pretty familiar with the different forms of lag. I calmly explained that moving EU to EU wouldn't resolve the lag we were experience because it was occurring on the server. My arguments were swiftly refuted on the basis of me not knowing what I was talking about. Moving along, ZOS succumbed to the pressure and made the move.

We are still experiencing lag on EU, if not much more. Turns out the lag was server-side and moving the servers to EU made a negligible difference. Turns out all the bandwaggoners were wrong. Turns out that, now, resolving the lag is going to be more difficult because the ZOS devs are half the way across the world.

Players now indicate that the lag is ZOS's fault.

Players love complaining about stuff, making demands, without realising what those demands actually entail. Be careful what you demand because you might actually get it, and what has now been shown to be very true is:

ZOS knows what they are doing, players know LITERALLY nothing.

I'm going to trust ZOS's better judgement from now on. I'll provide honest-to-god feedback (and yes, get very verbal about their mess ups). As for making demands, that will be what destroys this game and I'm going to avoid it completely.

That being said, I think a major stability patch (at the expense of slipping feature patches by one release) would go a long way to allay the complaints of players - I would even appreciate it. I work in the software industry and I've come to learn that stability is sometimes a very major feature, and far more valuable than other features you might have planned.

Cogo · August 2014

@zazamalek

Anyone who reads through my way to long and big posts are either nuts and earn my respect for reading all and understanding what I say. I do tend to .....use 500 words when 50 would do.

I made several larges posts in this tread, hehe. I hope you did not suffer from reading through them all!

I have to give it back to you, very nice post about ESO and the players on these forums. If only people know more, then it would be less negative feelings all around.

I also think, we as players, needs to use some sort of polite feedback, even if its very negative.

As for lag. I played a lot the past few days, very little if any lag. And that goes both for PvE and Cyrodiil.

Had a crash. One in like 3 days. Happens!

Server lag will happen and easy for Zenimax to fix with more "datacenter" (to not be to technical).

There also is the network reason. Can you any of several points. Zenimax data center, their provider. The Euro main internet "trunks" as the switches are called. As well as the users ISP, and the users own PC/network.

Hard to tell what, but the longer a problem persists, the better you can identify the problem for lag.

One thing that seams to help every single person I've suggested it to, and I got the suggestion from someone else.

It does not matter what computer you have. This have nothing to do with this.

The graphic settings in game, called "shadows". Put that to medium or low if its on higher, and check your performance. Every one so far, who done it, got better performance and no real difference in the beautiful graphics!

Very nice to read your post. That another person understood that the EU server "lag" problem was not cause it was in US. It makes a bit difference, yes! But it was only good that they had it just like you say.

Kos · August 2014

The best incentive for people to go on PTS is to send them new SSD hard drives.

Imp666 · September 2014

The facts are plain and simple, and whether you write 10 or 10000 words, they will remain the same.

The current state of the game is pretty much open beta (or would have been if the game was released a decade ago) and what ZoS is asking of us is, to keep paying subscriptions for a couple of years with promises of how the game will turn out, with a loyalty program as the carrot. The rate at which these changes are happening is terribly slow. After 4 full months of the game being live, alot of key issues are still floating around:

PvE wise, there is nothing to do after you hit VR12 and gear up. Trials are a long way from being considered a valid endgame. The main PvE endgame activity right now is achievement grinding, and it has been like that for over two months now.
PvP wise, it is broken in so many ways. It is all about dumb zergs, farming with oil pots, and emperor swarms. And all that assuming you have a proper build for it, aka Staff & Skirt.
Skill balance wise, terrible again. Lots of worthless or mediocre skills to fill a 5 slot bar. The whole design of it, is flawed, no wonder there are so many balance issues. Light armour, staff are king. Add Immovable for pvp and you know where the money is at. Your options are to a) play what you want at a serious disadvantage to everything else, b) wear you skirt, grab your staff and get in line. Here you can also mention vampires,werewolves, broken (from launch) NB skills, pitiful tanking and skill lines for it and the list goes on and on...
Fun factor. It starts at 110%, stunningly beautiful game, excellent quest design, lore, backround, stories, voiceovers....Until you final campaign fight which is the climax of the game. From there on its downhill, going for Cadwell Silver and Gold. The old veteran difficulty was an enjoyable part for me. The only enjoyable part as you are forced through campaigns without any reason at all. The world is already saved, you are just grinding quests/xp from that point on.
Game support/design. This has been without a doubt the weakest part of ESO. Patches and updates that break more than they fix, making us spend the next entire month getting fixes and hotfixes, of which some work and some do not. Issues that keep getting dropped to the bottom of the todo list, fixes that people have been waiting for months without any response.

To make things short, it is a very beautiful but half finished game. The Elder Scrolls part of the game is excellent, the MMO part of the game is mediocre at best. It might be the best game ever in a year or two, but right it is a LONG way from that and from the game that was advertised.

Anastasia · September 2014

Aeula wrote: »

I wanna know more about Wrothgar! When can we expect to see it? What minimum level do we have to be?

Also, with the apparent changes to gear coming, will the VR rank requirements on gear go away? So i don't have to be...say VR12 to do trials? Will my power be the same at VR1 as at VR12?

Hmm... there will be no published minimum level to 'do trials'. But there will OF COURSE be minimum skills needed to perform for competitive groups. Unless of course ZOS goes in and adjusts the dps bar needed to beat the bosses to proceed inside of the triaIs. In addition...as the Champion point 'perks' get finalized and in game, theres that delicious "Season Gear" for everyone to set goals to get

.

The Champion System is going to provide for a way for players to have access to deepening their characters and thats awesome! However, the improvement by gains related to inputting points received by the Champion system will not negate ongoing leveling; it is not going to somehow magically create a total horizontal/sandbox environs. It is reframing/renaming the Vet points experience gained and providing additional impetus/slight rewards for gaining said points, but progression will still very much be in place going forward.

Can't wait for additional details from ZOS on it!

Wyattearp89 · September 2014

Looking forward to the new Facial Animations & Combat Systems.

Update 4 looks good, can't wait to see what Update 5 will have.

Thank you for the Look Ahead.

Edit: I was under the impression that the PTR was for those who had high level characters on the Live servers. I did not know that there are Templates to make Max Level characters, my mistake. I will download the PTR as soon as I can.

rrb167b14_ESO · September 2014

90% od Zeni Dev Teams working on CONTENT is a huge blunder.

Dev Teams should AT LEAST have 50% of them working BROKEN crap -- some of which has been BROKEN since Pre-Release.

I am sick and tired of having a CSR say "Known issue" I.E., the damned NPC bank in Minstral -- there are TONS of others I could list here.

OK, it may not be Veteran content -- but Zenimax should understand that their player base -- not to mention new players -- expect ESO to WORK,without the many unresolved issues.

Get with the reakin' program, Zenimax.

chrisw_63_ESO · September 2014

PTS - yeah, I'd like to do some of that, but let me clue you in to a little problem there. ITS HUGE!!!

I know. You didn't need me to tell you that. But maybe you haven't thought of the fact that I'm a gamer. I have Games on my computer. Lots of them. The last two releases of Elder Scrolls, ESO, a couple versions of Far Cry, EverQuest2 (plus IT'S test and beta), at least one other Beta... My drives are getting crowded! I'm sure I can't be the only one.

Having to install another FULL game directory for testing is just wasteful. How hard could it be to have a separate ESOTest client that loaded files from an ESOTestOverride folder first, then grabbed the common elements from the current game files? Most testing is Added content, which means 90% of the rest of the game is common to both. In the event of major changes, the override directory would get large, but most of the time it would be a fraction of the size of the game.

Develop this override system, sell it to other gaming companies to reimburse the costs, and implement it in ESO. Until then, someone send me a couple more Terabytes.

Garwulf · September 2014

With all the changes coming, champion system etc etra I can see no obvious reason for the Classes in the Game. The one thing that was really special about the Elder Scrolls game was no classes. You Rolled your own to suit your style.

Zormac · September 2014

Loyalty Program is potentially the first step towards a "pay to win" experience within a pay to play game. Veteran players get "items they'll really love" - the longer you've paid for the game, the better your reward. I hope it doesn't ever mean powerful items, only vanity ones.