NB: Mark Target is it useful?

CapuchinSeven · August 2014

TheBucket wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

forthewinn2 wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Lol.im not going to explain to you the effectiveness of it since you have your mind made up. My Rendering Slashes hits for 200 a weapon at 2300 stamina not including the light attack and the bleed, which is stacked with the axes.

If you wish to test the build or me for that matter please feel free. I'm confident...

I believe the topic was about pvp as well. In which i will use Whirlind on 100% targets to stay getting the stamina then to 160 faster

My apologies if I came off sounding rude.

I'm merely unsure why you would animation cancel blood craze or rending slashes in your case, instead of using blood craze once and animation weaving flying blade or perhaps veiled strike with light attacks.

Also could you possibly explain what you meant by 50% more damage?
Wouldn't you have to be facing a heavy armor tank to get a damage increase anywhere near that?

Yeah sorry this guy is right, there are better ways to get damage from duel wield animation cancelling than with Blood Craze. A single Blood Craze/Rending Slashes then animation cancelling (I hate that we have to do it) something like Flying Blade or even Flurry which has been shown to work very well with animation cancelling would deal far more damage.

Each to their own though.

((Although I think when he talks about extra damage he's talking about the Haste morph to allow for bigger heavy attacks which he's using animation cancelling with))

I use flying blade as well...

For the resource management, a light attack canceled with RS is beautiful. So many people ask me how I'm able to sustain such DPS with survivability. When you try to explain it they shrug you off. /shrug.

Each to their own of course and well done you for building decent DPS, although I'm not really sure what you'd be done that would boost your damage that much. A Flurry build can manage a constant 800DPS and that has the Craze DOT running on it already, not sure what would change about your build that would make it do more damage.

Resource management is a fair point though, it uses next to no stamina.

Darkonflare15 · August 2014

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

forthewinn2 wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Lol.im not going to explain to you the effectiveness of it since you have your mind made up. My Rendering Slashes hits for 200 a weapon at 2300 stamina not including the light attack and the bleed, which is stacked with the axes.

If you wish to test the build or me for that matter please feel free. I'm confident...

I believe the topic was about pvp as well. In which i will use Whirlind on 100% targets to stay getting the stamina then to 160 faster

My apologies if I came off sounding rude.

I'm merely unsure why you would animation cancel blood craze or rending slashes in your case, instead of using blood craze once and animation weaving flying blade or perhaps veiled strike with light attacks.

Also could you possibly explain what you meant by 50% more damage?
Wouldn't you have to be facing a heavy armor tank to get a damage increase anywhere near that?

Yeah sorry this guy is right, there are better ways to get damage from duel wield animation cancelling than with Blood Craze. A single Blood Craze/Rending Slashes then animation cancelling (I hate that we have to do it) something like Flying Blade or even Flurry which has been shown to work very well with animation cancelling would deal far more damage.

Each to their own though.

((Although I think when he talks about extra damage he's talking about the Haste morph to allow for bigger heavy attacks which he's using animation cancelling with))

I use flying blade as well...

For the resource management, a light attack canceled with RS is beautiful. So many people ask me how I'm able to sustain such DPS with survivability. When you try to explain it they shrug you off. /shrug.

Each to their own of course and well done you for building decent DPS, although I'm not really sure what you'd be done that would boost your damage that much. A Flurry build can manage a constant 800DPS and that has the Craze DOT running on it already, not sure what would change about your build that would make it do more damage.

Resource management is a fair point though, it uses next to no stamina.

Mark target by itself is not that useful but its morph Reaper's mark is one of the best skills in the game. If your are using a high weapon damage build Aoe build it is awesome for pve. I use with my two- handed character because without a restoration staff you have to rely on potions to heal you in battle. I use reapers's mark as a way to take on a lot of enemies at once. You use this skill on weak enemy then you kill it, in return you get back 60% of your current max health back just like that. It can keep alive longer to take out everything that is in your way plus you get a damage boost of 16 spell power and 16 weapon power for 30 secs after killing a enemy. It just a great way to gain attack boosts while mowing enemies down. The drawback is this skill is not that useful in pvp or boss battles that do not have adds because the move would just make the boss hit you with more damage but if the boss has adds then this could be a easier way to gain health back quickly.

Jaxom · August 2014

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

forthewinn2 wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Lol.im not going to explain to you the effectiveness of it since you have your mind made up. My Rendering Slashes hits for 200 a weapon at 2300 stamina not including the light attack and the bleed, which is stacked with the axes.

If you wish to test the build or me for that matter please feel free. I'm confident...

I believe the topic was about pvp as well. In which i will use Whirlind on 100% targets to stay getting the stamina then to 160 faster

My apologies if I came off sounding rude.

I'm merely unsure why you would animation cancel blood craze or rending slashes in your case, instead of using blood craze once and animation weaving flying blade or perhaps veiled strike with light attacks.

Also could you possibly explain what you meant by 50% more damage?
Wouldn't you have to be facing a heavy armor tank to get a damage increase anywhere near that?

Yeah sorry this guy is right, there are better ways to get damage from duel wield animation cancelling than with Blood Craze. A single Blood Craze/Rending Slashes then animation cancelling (I hate that we have to do it) something like Flying Blade or even Flurry which has been shown to work very well with animation cancelling would deal far more damage.

Each to their own though.

((Although I think when he talks about extra damage he's talking about the Haste morph to allow for bigger heavy attacks which he's using animation cancelling with))

I use flying blade as well...

For the resource management, a light attack canceled with RS is beautiful. So many people ask me how I'm able to sustain such DPS with survivability. When you try to explain it they shrug you off. /shrug.

Each to their own of course and well done you for building decent DPS, although I'm not really sure what you'd be done that would boost your damage that much. A Flurry build can manage a constant 800DPS and that has the Craze DOT running on it already, not sure what would change about your build that would make it do more damage.

Resource management is a fair point though, it uses next to no stamina.

Mark target by itself is not that useful but its morph Reaper's mark is one of the best skills in the game. If your are using a high weapon damage build Aoe build it is awesome for pve. I use with my two- handed character because without a restoration staff you have to rely on potions to heal you in battle. I use reapers's mark as a way to take on a lot of enemies at once. You use this skill on weak enemy then you kill it, in return you get back 60% of your current max health back just like that. It can keep alive longer to take out everything that is in your way plus you get a damage boost of 16 spell power and 16 weapon power for 30 secs after killing a enemy. It just a great way to gain attack boosts while mowing enemies down. The drawback is this skill is not that useful in pvp or boss battles that do not have adds because the move would just make the boss hit you with more damage but if the boss has adds then this could be a easier way to gain health back quickly.

I think reapers mark was better before the nerfed it. You used to be able to stack the attack boosts. But you are correct, for PvP, Piercing Mark is a NB's best friend.

Helwyr · August 2014

Very useful in VR PvE for a solo NB because of the heal.

Would be a lot more useful in PvP if it didn't let the target know they've been marked. (which IMO is the way it should work)

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · August 2014

I don't like Mark Target and it's morph's for two reasons,

1. In PvE the target that is "Marked" has no awareness of it (regardless if I am in stealth or not), and in PvP the Player targeted does get the awareness even if I cast it from stealth.

It should be that if I am in stealth and cast it on the other enemy player, that they have no awareness of it, once stealth breaks then they should become aware of it.

2. "target's attacks ignore 75% of player's Armor and Spell Resistance." My power should be greater than theirs since I am using the spell on them, so the weakness should be less, so I think it should be "target's attacks ignore 50% of player's Armor and Spell Resistance."

If both of these buffs was implemented then Mark Target (and it's morph's) would have a place on one of my bars.

Darkonflare15 · September 2014

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

I don't like Mark Target and it's morph's for two reasons,

1. In PvE the target that is "Marked" has no awareness of it (regardless if I am in stealth or not), and in PvP the Player targeted does get the awareness even if I cast it from stealth.

It should be that if I am in stealth and cast it on the other enemy player, that they have no awareness of it, once stealth breaks then they should become aware of it.

2. "target's attacks ignore 75% of player's Armor and Spell Resistance." My power should be greater than theirs since I am using the spell on them, so the weakness should be less, so I think it should be "target's attacks ignore 50% of player's Armor and Spell Resistance."

If both of these buffs was implemented then Mark Target (and it's morph's) would have a place on one of my bars.

Yeah, that does suck but the 75% of player armor and spell resistance is not that bad compare to benefits of Reaper's mark one of the morphs of mark target. You get 60% of max health back to character once you killed somebody with mark on them. Plus you get buff of Weapon damage and spell power by of 16. You get two benefits and that are way better than disadvantage. Helps me stay battle much longer than any other nb skill other than veil of blades. Plus disadvantage is only bad if you let the target hit with a lot damaging attack. If you focus just on that enemy you will kill them so fast before even can take an advantage over you. The disadvantage is not that bad.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · September 2014

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Yeah, that does suck but the 75% of player armor and spell resistance is not that bad compare to benefits of Reaper's mark one of the morphs of mark target. You get 60% of max health back to character once you killed somebody with mark on them. Plus you get buff of Weapon damage and spell power by of 16. You get two benefits and that are way better than disadvantage. Helps me stay battle much longer than any other nb skill other than veil of blades. Plus disadvantage is only bad if you let the target hit with a lot damaging attack. If you focus just on that enemy you will kill them so fast before even can take an advantage over you. The disadvantage is not that bad.

I hear you but you are spending a skill point for these abilities (and a Morph skill point, so that is two points) and getting the weapon/spell power buff is only after you kill the target, it should be while you have the enemy Targeted, not after. Plus the enemy in PvP should not know they are targeted if you cast Mark Target from stealth, it defeats the purpose of using it, it should not be a level playing field that they can bypass your armor / spell resist as much as you can to them, I am the one casting the spell, I should have the advantage, and for this reason alone I do not use it if at all, the Damage/Risk is too great.

The Vampires Kiss Crafted set (5 pc) is much better, every time you kill someone you get a heal.. with no cooldown and no damage disadvantage whatsoever.

That is how Mark Target should be and it should not alert the Target if you are in stealth and they cannot see you when you cast it on them.

forthewinn2 · September 2014

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

getting the weapon/spell power buff is only after you kill the target, it should be while you have the enemy Targeted, not after.

This is why Reaper's mark sounds way better than it actually is, people read 'increase weapon and spell damage by 15 for 30 seconds' and automatically think it's good.
When in reality most of the time when you are using mark target against trash mobs you are using aoe, hence by the time that your marked target is dead most of the other mobs are already 90% dead (The skill would honestly be better if it increased your weapon and spell damage by 5 for the duration of the mark).
This combined with the 560 magicka cost of Reaper's mark makes the skill feel clunky and inefficient to use.

As for piercing Mark, the cost is more realistic and yes it will let you see your target should they try to get away in pvp, but yet again it feels like the pros and the cons of the skill are about equal, making it difficult to justify giving the skill a spot on your skill bar.

Mark target may not be a completely bad skill, it just happens to miss the great potential it had to be a good skill.

Darkonflare15 · September 2014

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Yeah, that does suck but the 75% of player armor and spell resistance is not that bad compare to benefits of Reaper's mark one of the morphs of mark target. You get 60% of max health back to character once you killed somebody with mark on them. Plus you get buff of Weapon damage and spell power by of 16. You get two benefits and that are way better than disadvantage. Helps me stay battle much longer than any other nb skill other than veil of blades. Plus disadvantage is only bad if you let the target hit with a lot damaging attack. If you focus just on that enemy you will kill them so fast before even can take an advantage over you. The disadvantage is not that bad.

I hear you but you are spending a skill point for these abilities (and a Morph skill point, so that is two points) and getting the weapon/spell power buff is only after you kill the target, it should be while you have the enemy Targeted, not after. Plus the enemy in PvP should not know they are targeted if you cast Mark Target from stealth, it defeats the purpose of using it, it should not be a level playing field that they can bypass your armor / spell resist as much as you can to them, I am the one casting the spell, I should have the advantage, and for this reason alone I do not use it if at all, the Damage/Risk is too great.

The Vampires Kiss Crafted set (5 pc) is much better, every time you kill someone you get a heal.. with no cool down and no damage disadvantage whatsoever.

That is how Mark Target should be and it should not alert the Target if you are in stealth and they cannot see you when you cast it on them.

Yeah makes since but I never use two different weapons so I have plenty points to spend. Plus the skill gives you the heal right than in there much faster than the Vampires kiss Crafted set (5pc) which increases your healing regen which I could be dead before I get the full regen to heal in time while I can get 1500 health instantly saving me from dieing. Mark target is part of the assassin skill which why you have to kill an opponent in order to get the buff which makes since. Also I do not like the buffs from Vampires kiss crafted set. They are not suited to my character to kill my enemies fast which is the point of build. Hey I never play pvp anyway and if I did I would never use this skill in pvp but in pve it is an awesome skill. The buff can last 30 secs after you kill you first enemy. So this plus power drain is a beast when going against a lot of enemies. Plus it looks cooler.75% damage debuff sounds bad but it is not. You never use this skill against a boss who can kill you faster. You use this against adds or normal mobs that you can kill fast. The risk is nothing if you know how to use the skill.

Darkonflare15 · September 2014

forthewinn2 wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

getting the weapon/spell power buff is only after you kill the target, it should be while you have the enemy Targeted, not after.

This is why Reaper's mark sounds way better than it actually is, people read 'increase weapon and spell damage by 15 for 30 seconds' and automatically think it's good.
When in reality most of the time when you are using mark target against trash mobs you are using aoe, hence by the time that your marked target is dead most of the other mobs are already 90% dead (The skill would honestly be better if it increased your weapon and spell damage by 5 for the duration of the mark).
This combined with the 560 magicka cost of Reaper's mark makes the skill feel clunky and inefficient to use.

As for piercing Mark, the cost is more realistic and yes it will let you see your target should they try to get away in pvp, but yet again it feels like the pros and the cons of the skill are about equal, making it difficult to justify giving the skill a spot on your skill bar.

Mark target may not be a completely bad skill, it just happens to miss the great potential it had to be a good skill.

Well it depends on you build. I have a two handed stamina build. I do not have any attacks that use magicka only buffs. The only three magicka skills I use is Reaper's Mark, Focused strikes and Power drain. So my magicka regens pretty fast before I need it again. The buff last 30 secs which is pretty long for most skills. Plus yes I use this against multiple mobs but I fight multiple mobs in succession so the skill is still effective. Having the skill increased your weapon and spell damage by 5 for the duration of the mark will make the skill not that useful because you will only have that weapon increase during the mark which you are going to kill the target fast anyway, While you now have a buff that last 30 sec. In my game since I use the skill the buff is 16 spell power and weapon damage. Just because the skill is not useful to you does not mean skill not useful for someone else. The skill is useful for someone who relies on weapon damage and only use magic for buffs to their physical skills.

forthewinn2 · September 2014

@Darkonflare15 does your build focus on single target abilities or aoe?
It seems like the current +15 spell and weapon damage after killing marked target would mainly benefit a single target build, while +5 weapon and spell damage for the duration of the mark would be better for aoe builds.

Darkonflare15 · September 2014

@forthewinn2 Well my build focus on both and the + 16 spell and weapon damage helps in both situation.

Honfold · September 2014

I do not use it. When the target realizes they have been marked they usually throw up blow and now block more damage than if you would have not used mark.

The only use for piercing mark is to target fleeing enemies.

Jaxom · September 2014

Honfold wrote: »

I do not use it. When the target realizes they have been marked they usually throw up blow and now block more damage than if you would have not used mark.

The only use for piercing mark is to target fleeing enemies.

You can cast Snipe and in the time it takes for the arrow to hit your target, you can mark them just before it hits. This gives you both the element of surprise while giving you the benefit of Mark Target. This is from a PvP perspective of course. In PvE, it doesn't matter

Lethal Arrow-> Piercing Mark -> Venom Arrow -> Light Attack -> Impale.

Not counting the 2s cast time of Lethal Arrow, you can burst someone down before they are out of stun if specced for it.

CapuchinSeven · September 2014

Jaxom wrote: »

Honfold wrote: »

I do not use it. When the target realizes they have been marked they usually throw up blow and now block more damage than if you would have not used mark.

The only use for piercing mark is to target fleeing enemies.

You can cast Snipe and in the time it takes for the arrow to hit your target, you can mark them just before it hits.

I've done this before and wondered the same thing, I was never totally sure it was working. All in all though, outside of marking a stealthed target I've never really bothered with it much.

The heal is useful in big battles though and I'd argue it's pretty much the main way a Nightblade can kill 2 players 1v2.

Jaxom · September 2014

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

Honfold wrote: »

I do not use it. When the target realizes they have been marked they usually throw up blow and now block more damage than if you would have not used mark.

The only use for piercing mark is to target fleeing enemies.

You can cast Snipe and in the time it takes for the arrow to hit your target, you can mark them just before it hits.

I've done this before and wondered the same thing, I was never totally sure it was working. All in all though, outside of marking a stealthed target I've never really bothered with it much.

The heal is useful in big battles though and I'd argue it's pretty much the main way a Nightblade can kill 2 players 1v2.

Yeah, it definitely works and I find better success using that technique than to get a Snipe and Venom Arrow out of stealth. There is a noticeable difference in damage in my Lethal arrow. When I pull this combo off and the person I'm attacking isn't blocking, it will hit for 1600-2200.

I also started playing around with Critical Charge and Executioner in conjunction to this combo. Snipe, Mark, (weapon swap) Charge, Executioner if I'm in a bigger battle. And yes 100% on the heal. It's really the only burst heal we get. In larger skirmishes, I'll look for a target low on health and just mark them as I attack a different player. Once that player dies, I'll get the nice heal out of it.

CapuchinSeven · September 2014

Yeah the, mark the lowbie fighting those VR12s while I go deal with this VR12 over here, tactic is pretty useful.

I don't think MT is useless as some claim, I just always feel like it's just not good enough to knock something else off my bar.

I just think, like a lot of our abilities, they just come up short of being awesome.

Jaxom · September 2014

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I just think, like a lot of our abilities, they just come up short of being awesome.

This is the M.O. of weapon based attacks currently and a large number of NB skills.

Honfold · September 2014

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Jaxom wrote: »

Honfold wrote: »

I do not use it. When the target realizes they have been marked they usually throw up blow and now block more damage than if you would have not used mark.

The only use for piercing mark is to target fleeing enemies.

You can cast Snipe and in the time it takes for the arrow to hit your target, you can mark them just before it hits.

I've done this before and wondered the same thing, I was never totally sure it was working. All in all though, outside of marking a stealthed target I've never really bothered with it much.

The heal is useful in big battles though and I'd argue it's pretty much the main way a Nightblade can kill 2 players 1v2.

I have tried that as well. I still find getting the second attack in more useful. If the heavy attack crits then I am almost sure to win that fight. There were also times I had tried to use mark after lethal arrow and the targets still had time to block lethal arrow.

R0M2K · September 2014

Useles skill, its like:

"Hello theres a NB targeting you, pls purge or hold block cos maybe hes brave enough and engages you soon".

And for PvE cant be noticed..