NB: Mark Target is it useful?

GreyRanger

I have been leveling a nightblade and having fun (Lvl 36). I took mark target and use it from time to time, mostly now on boss fights, but I really can't tell that much difference. I haven't done serious testing.

Is mitigation in ESO modest enough that mark target is not worth having in your build?

Thanks for the help and advice.

forthewinn2

Mark target is situational at best, but generally speaking it isn't worth having on your bar.
Sure you if you use it for a boss fight you will deal roughly 10% more damage to the boss, but most likely the boss is going to be doing 20% more damage to you(this varies depending on your armor rating).

The only real place for mark target is in packs of 3 mobs, where you mark mob 2, stealth kill mob 1, kill mob 2(get healed from mark) then kill mob 3.

don't even bother trying it in pvp.......

GreyRanger

Thanks for the input, going to repec today and I think I will drop it. Too bad it seemed like a key/central power for the assassin line, it just doesn't seem to do much.

Is the haste power at the end of that line valuable?

TheBull

It's nearly indispensable in Cyrodiil.

CapuchinSeven

TheBull wrote: »

It's nearly indispensable in Cyrodiil.

I'd agree that it's useful for spotting hidden targets that try to get away, but in no way would I have it in every build I have. It's not indispensable at all in PVP, it's useful.

forthewinn2

GreyRanger wrote: »

Is the haste power at the end of that line valuable?

nope .
(leeching strikes has an internal cooldown).

Skafsgaard

I find it useful only for marking targets trying to sneak away (used it as self heal while levelling)

joshisanonymous

It can make a big difference when fighting enemies with very high armor, but makes pretty much no difference against those with low armor. Also keep in mind that, if you're working with a group, you're increasing everyone's damage on that target, not just your own.

I've used it quite a bit myself, and find it more than just "situational at best," but it's also not so over the top that it's required in every build.

elwhy

Maybe I need to reevaluate my use of it, but I always use it with my bow. It's saved me more times than I can count in pve, and a few times but not as often in pvp. Even in big boss fights that summon adds, like bone lord for example, you mark one of the little skeletons and when you kill it you're back at 100% health and have a solid damage bonus for 20 or however many seconds.

I've always thought it was a great ranged, kiting ability...but you guys are making me doubt it now, haha.

CapuchinSeven

eliasadriancombsub17_ESO wrote: »

you mark one of the little skeletons and when you kill it you're back at 100% health.

This. Other than that though, not sure it's really worth it. In PVP the armour reduction seems mostly not worth it as well.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Well, in theory, it's best use would be if you could hit a target with extremely high armor, while you yourself have low armor, so you get the most out of the trade.

Problem is, no player worth their salt runs any noticeable armor whatsoever anyway, so it's usually not worth that much. Also, there is an opportunity cost to it that few people seem to consider when talking about it; you are not casting something actually damaging while you use mark target. The heal on it, while big, is hard to time effectively and completely useless when you'd need it the most, which is when a strong enemy is beating on you.

All in all, no, I wouldn't consider running it anywhere really, the damage boost is not worth it and the heal is so highly situational that I'd rather just swap to my resto staff and cast a real heal.

KleanZlate

You can sometime use it as a distraction in PvP. Just today I arrived at Nikel when a group of enemies were repairing a wall after a siege. I marked one of them and the whole group rushed out to find me. I was alone and slipped away but had there been a friendly group on the way it would have been a nice tactic to draw them out.

elwhy

I agree, the timing is tricky, but for me using a bow and 1hand or dw (playing how I want and not necessarily how I should to be a "top player" - ie resto/destro) I've used it enough and learned how to time it so it's become an invaluable ability for me.

But after this discussion I'm seriously evaluating switching it out, dunno if I will though

Teloran

Mark target is kind of useless in PvE but the heal and power increase from reapers mark is quite nice when you have an easy kill.

Dekkameron

If used in cyrodil, it mainly just causes the recipient to either hold down block or they run away. If you want to ambush someone its the worst thing you can use.

forthewinn2

joshisanonymous wrote: »

Also keep in mind that, if you're working with a group, you're increasing everyone's damage on that target, not just your own.

This is incorrect.
Mark Target tooltip says "players attacks ignore 75% of targets armor and spell resistance", it is not "reduce targets armor and spell resistance by 75%".
Meaning only your attacks will deal more damage.

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Problem is, no player worth their salt runs any noticeable armor whatsoever anyway, so it's usually not worth that much

This is one of the main reason I don't think mark target is useful in Pvp, upon entering cyrodil you have 400 armor penetration, meaning that the first 400 armor of any player offers absolutely no mitigation.If people were running around in hardcapped armor Mark target would be quite useful, but in the age of light armor and staffs not so much.

Dekkameron wrote: »

If used in cyrodil, it mainly just causes the recipient to either hold down block or they run away. If you want to ambush someone its the worst thing you can use.

This is the other main reason mark target isn't that useful in pvp.
The moment you use it on someone they instantly go 'Turtle Mode' where they hold block constantly and prepare to spam their self heals. You may as well be sending them a message saying "Prepare yourself and start holding block, I'm about to try and burst you".

"Turtle Mode Activate!"

Luvsfuzzybunnies

joshisanonymous wrote: »

It can make a big difference when fighting enemies with very high armor, but makes pretty much no difference against those with low armor. Also keep in mind that, if you're working with a group, you're increasing everyone's damage on that target, not just your own.

I've used it quite a bit myself, and find it more than just "situational at best," but it's also not so over the top that it's required in every build.

I am of the impression that the armor and Spell resistance values are only aplied to.the mark and the marker.

Teargrants

Mark target annoys me for about 2 sec, then I purge it.

I guess my point is purge is awesome.

Duukar

Mark Target is great in pvp. The only use tho is to counter enemy NBs so they cant vanish out of combat when you try to kill them. I don't notice any damage increase.

reften

I use it when traveling on foot..and for ganking. If you're quick enough, you can mark someone on a horse, load up a heavy shot, fire, and spam poison arrow...then ambush and veiled strike.

redeby

I love it in PvP (Piercing Mark morph) and, as others, use it to prevent enemy to get away by stealthing/vanish. I also use it to quickly tag someone when I know someone is hiding nearby and they pop out for a second when I get close.
I sometime use it, as above, to either try to get someone to run away/fall back (works quite often) or to get them to stay searching for me if I feel this is beneficial in the current situation. Just throwing it on someone you are not attacking could be useful as well resulting in that person to turtle up and not being as forward aggresive giving the person he/she was attacking some slack.

In PvE I often use it on the healer (it won't agro) and then open up bursting the healer to make sure he don't gets healing going. Sometimes I use it on one mob, snipe him so he gets low health, dps the others and quickly do "killing shot" on the marked one when I need a heal. I avoid it on bosses unless they can be cc:ed.

I think it adds to the fun but with only five abilties (10 if you use bows for both bars like me) it's all a matter of preference.
You could also use an addon that allows you to switch between different bar sets (works out of combat) and then switch to this in situations you think you might need it.

TheBucket

GreyRanger wrote: »

Thanks for the input, going to repec today and I think I will drop it. Too bad it seemed like a key/central power for the assassin line, it just doesn't seem to do much.

Is the haste power at the end of that line valuable?

Yes it doesn't have to be with leeching strikes which most people thought to use it for. Mixed with Blood Craze and animation canceling it can increase dmg 50%

IKilled007

I use piercing mark with my bow bar. I shoot a lethal arrow and immediately mark the target after it releases. Then he's done.

forthewinn2

TheBucket wrote: »

Yes it doesn't have to be with leeching strikes which most people thought to use it for. Mixed with Blood Craze and animation canceling it can increase dmg 50%

Animation cancelling blood craze is one of the greatest dual wielding sins imaginable(it's up there with using steel tornado on a mob with 100% health) why?
87% of the damage done by blood craze comes from a nine second bleed, the initial impact damage from blood craze is less than that of a light attack.
Blood craze should not be used on a mob more than once every nine seconds.

Also in what world does increasing light attack speed by 30% boost your dps from animation cancelling by 50%?

eliisra

It is in PvP because 99% of the population in Cyrodiil aren't using purge, instead they expect someone else to magically remove all their debuffs. They rather slot that extra dps skills that makes no difference what so ever.

Just dont open with Mark Target from sneak like so many bad mofo NB's do. Might as well send your enemy a whispers: Going to attack you in 1-3 sec, so don't put up Immovable, HoT's and a damage absorbing shield, if you please?

TheBucket

forthewinn2 wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Yes it doesn't have to be with leeching strikes which most people thought to use it for. Mixed with Blood Craze and animation canceling it can increase dmg 50%

Animation cancelling blood craze is one of the greatest dual wielding sins imaginable(it's up there with using steel tornado on a mob with 100% health) why?
87% of the damage done by blood craze comes from a nine second bleed, the initial impact damage from blood craze is less than that of a light attack.
Blood craze should not be used on a mob more than once every nine seconds.

Also in what world does increasing light attack speed by 30% boost your dps from animation cancelling by 50%?

Lol.im not going to explain to you the effectiveness of it since you have your mind made up. My Rendering Slashes hits for 200 a weapon at 2300 stamina not including the light attack and the bleed, which is stacked with the axes.

If you wish to test the build or me for that matter please feel free. I'm confident...

I believe the topic was about pvp as well. In which i will use Whirlind on 100% targets to stay getting the stamina then to 160 faster

forthewinn2

TheBucket wrote: »

Lol.im not going to explain to you the effectiveness of it since you have your mind made up. My Rendering Slashes hits for 200 a weapon at 2300 stamina not including the light attack and the bleed, which is stacked with the axes.

If you wish to test the build or me for that matter please feel free. I'm confident...

I believe the topic was about pvp as well. In which i will use Whirlind on 100% targets to stay getting the stamina then to 160 faster

My apologies if I came off sounding rude.

I'm merely unsure why you would animation cancel blood craze or rending slashes in your case, instead of using blood craze once and animation weaving flying blade or perhaps veiled strike with light attacks.

Also could you possibly explain what you meant by 50% more damage?
Wouldn't you have to be facing a heavy armor tank to get a damage increase anywhere near that?

CapuchinSeven

forthewinn2 wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Lol.im not going to explain to you the effectiveness of it since you have your mind made up. My Rendering Slashes hits for 200 a weapon at 2300 stamina not including the light attack and the bleed, which is stacked with the axes.

If you wish to test the build or me for that matter please feel free. I'm confident...

I believe the topic was about pvp as well. In which i will use Whirlind on 100% targets to stay getting the stamina then to 160 faster

My apologies if I came off sounding rude.

I'm merely unsure why you would animation cancel blood craze or rending slashes in your case, instead of using blood craze once and animation weaving flying blade or perhaps veiled strike with light attacks.

Also could you possibly explain what you meant by 50% more damage?
Wouldn't you have to be facing a heavy armor tank to get a damage increase anywhere near that?

Yeah sorry this guy is right, there are better ways to get damage from duel wield animation cancelling than with Blood Craze. A single Blood Craze/Rending Slashes then animation cancelling (I hate that we have to do it) something like Flying Blade or even Flurry which has been shown to work very well with animation cancelling would deal far more damage.

Each to their own though.

((Although I think when he talks about extra damage he's talking about the Haste morph to allow for bigger heavy attacks which he's using animation cancelling with))

TheBucket

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

forthewinn2 wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Lol.im not going to explain to you the effectiveness of it since you have your mind made up. My Rendering Slashes hits for 200 a weapon at 2300 stamina not including the light attack and the bleed, which is stacked with the axes.

If you wish to test the build or me for that matter please feel free. I'm confident...

I believe the topic was about pvp as well. In which i will use Whirlind on 100% targets to stay getting the stamina then to 160 faster

My apologies if I came off sounding rude.

I'm merely unsure why you would animation cancel blood craze or rending slashes in your case, instead of using blood craze once and animation weaving flying blade or perhaps veiled strike with light attacks.

Also could you possibly explain what you meant by 50% more damage?
Wouldn't you have to be facing a heavy armor tank to get a damage increase anywhere near that?

Yeah sorry this guy is right, there are better ways to get damage from duel wield animation cancelling than with Blood Craze. A single Blood Craze/Rending Slashes then animation cancelling (I hate that we have to do it) something like Flying Blade or even Flurry which has been shown to work very well with animation cancelling would deal far more damage.

Each to their own though.

((Although I think when he talks about extra damage he's talking about the Haste morph to allow for bigger heavy attacks which he's using animation cancelling with))

I use flying blade as well...

For the resource management, a light attack canceled with RS is beautiful. So many people ask me how I'm able to sustain such DPS with survivability. When you try to explain it they shrug you off. /shrug.

Saet

Like some others have posted I use it to harass enemies. Especially DK's. I usually mark any random DK I see while I running to my destination and keep on my way. He stands around blocking nothing at all while I'm over the next hill chuckling to myself. Yes I do this because I suck against DK's. Although I'm learning that if you do mark someone and they go turtle mode cast Summon Shade and they will waste their stamina blocking against those seriously light hits and then be an easy kill.

Cody

I don't use it in PvE. as PvE has no real situation its needed in, save MAYBE for boss fights. MAYBE. its more usefull in PvP, if you actually manage to hit someone with it from stealth, WITHOUT them blocking, you will do MASSIVE damage. but most of the time they will see the pillar(I think its stupid they can see it) and just hold down block. someone posted above you can use summon shades to force them to waste stamina to take down their block. That could work, but that would be the only use for the ability if it does(besides for harassing players.)

to put it in other words; its really situational. if you manage to actually hit someone from stealth with it, and they DONT block it, nine times out of ten you will kill them, but if they do block it(and most of the time they will(or should, they can see the pillar above them)) you will likely die, as the huge debuff(iv heard rumors that it does not actually debuff players the full 75%, but actually more along the lines of 10%, but I don't know if this is true or not) applies to you as well.

I myself don't use it. yes the damage you can do with it is nice, but I don't think the risk is worth the reward. try it for yourself, you might like it, or you might not.