Nerf Reflective Scale

orxan.qayibovb16_ESO · July 2014

After test whith
DK
set Resilient Yokeda + Whitestrakes
Reflective Scale + vamp ult + same save skill
\
I can say with absolute certainty We have GOD MODE, I can not even imagine who cope with imperor DK maybe 20 or more ppl can do, but without imperor 5 ppl easy in pvp. Sadly I did not have time to make the test in pve, if there are willing to, we can arrange a test for pvp and make video

Gaëloup · July 2014

I hope this topic is going to be read by devs, really !!!

Devolus · July 2014

What do you mean by "same save skill" ?

makkon · July 2014

Devolus wrote: »

What do you mean by "same save skill" ?

probably green dragon blood

forthewinn2 · July 2014

/TGM

starlizard70ub17_ESO · July 2014

No we do not need to nerf reflective scales because ... I can't understand the OP's rant? well enough to figure out why he wants it nerfed. It gets tiring for those of us who mainly play PvE getting screwed by a nerf because a PvPer got beaten in a fight with that ability, and then crys for it to be nerfed instead of learning how to defend against it. <(run-on sentence, I know) . Somehow, in this case, I think the OP is claiming they feel too powerful when using those abilities. OK, so don't use that combo if one thinks it's too easy. Odds are, it's not a single ability that needs to be nerfed, but rather the dynamic of how those abilities work togather needs to be changed.

User · July 2014

forthewinn2 wrote: »

/TGM

Toggle God mode. It's both big and red. Activate!

Draxys · July 2014

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

No we do not need to nerf reflective scales because ... I can't understand the OP's rant? well enough to figure out why he wants it nerfed. It gets tiring for those of us who mainly play PvE getting screwed by a nerf because a PvPer got beaten in a fight with that ability, and then crys for it to be nerfed instead of learning how to defend against it. <(run-on sentence, I know) . Somehow, in this case, I think the OP is claiming they feel too powerful when using those abilities. OK, so don't use that combo if one thinks it's too easy. Odds are, it's not a single ability that needs to be nerfed, but rather the dynamic of how those abilities work togather needs to be changed.

I can somewhat understand people crying for the nerf, but really it has more to do with people not being able to use restraint against a Scale DK. I am a DK and was in a pretty intense duel with a Sorc recently. Once he saw the wings, he stopped using projectiles and started using Streak offensively to stun me and used Curse or whatever it is. I ended up winning with ~5% health, but he was one of the few players I've ever come in contact with that actually knew what he was doing. Scales is easy to see, and restraint + keeping composure + knowing your tools will allow you to counter it.

Draxys · July 2014

Also, I'm not sure what the spell resist sets have to do with Reflective Scale. Reflect and Resist are two different mechanics.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · July 2014

Draxys wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

No we do not need to nerf reflective scales because ... I can't understand the OP's rant? well enough to figure out why he wants it nerfed. It gets tiring for those of us who mainly play PvE getting screwed by a nerf because a PvPer got beaten in a fight with that ability, and then crys for it to be nerfed instead of learning how to defend against it. <(run-on sentence, I know) . Somehow, in this case, I think the OP is claiming they feel too powerful when using those abilities. OK, so don't use that combo if one thinks it's too easy. Odds are, it's not a single ability that needs to be nerfed, but rather the dynamic of how those abilities work togather needs to be changed.

I can somewhat understand people crying for the nerf, but really it has more to do with people not being able to use restraint against a Scale DK. I am a DK and was in a pretty intense duel with a Sorc recently. Once he saw the wings, he stopped using projectiles and started using Streak offensively to stun me and used Curse or whatever it is. I ended up winning with ~5% health, but he was one of the few players I've ever come in contact with that actually knew what he was doing. Scales is easy to see, and restraint + keeping composure + knowing your tools will allow you to counter it.

But the rest of the players just want to keep spamming the few skills that scales can actually reflect then come cry when they die from it....

Brasseurfb16_ESO · July 2014

User wrote: »

forthewinn2 wrote: »

/TGM

It's both big and red. Activate!

What happens if I press thi... Gaargh! God, the excruciating pain! *faint*

david.haypreub18_ESO · July 2014

Draxys wrote: »

I can somewhat understand people crying for the nerf, but really it has more to do with people not being able to use restraint against a Scale DK. I am a DK and was in a pretty intense duel with a Sorc recently. Once he saw the wings, he stopped using projectiles and started using Streak offensively to stun me and used Curse or whatever it is. I ended up winning with ~5% health, but he was one of the few players I've ever come in contact with that actually knew what he was doing. Scales is easy to see, and restraint + keeping composure + knowing your tools will allow you to counter it.

In a duel, sure. It is easy to see, though if you don't slot a counter to it, you are in trouble. But where it really becomes a problem is in big battles. Which DK was it that popped his scales? Hard to see when there are so many of them, and you are trying to dodge Talon and Invasion spam. I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, just saying that in the chaos of battle, an ability that requires other players to identify you, track you and have the counter to you on their bar is really quite powerful. Combine that with an AoE CC and a bugged stunlock with Talons/Invasion, and you are requiring someone to constantly play defense and exercise restraint in a way that few other classes can match. It definitely does seem like the DK still has the advantage.

Muletide · July 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

But the rest of the players just want to keep spamming the few skills that scales can actually reflect then come cry when they die from it....

Exactly what I gathered. "Their spamming is effecting my spamming, make them stop!"

Domander · July 2014

Draxys wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

No we do not need to nerf reflective scales because ... I can't understand the OP's rant? well enough to figure out why he wants it nerfed. It gets tiring for those of us who mainly play PvE getting screwed by a nerf because a PvPer got beaten in a fight with that ability, and then crys for it to be nerfed instead of learning how to defend against it. <(run-on sentence, I know) . Somehow, in this case, I think the OP is claiming they feel too powerful when using those abilities. OK, so don't use that combo if one thinks it's too easy. Odds are, it's not a single ability that needs to be nerfed, but rather the dynamic of how those abilities work togather needs to be changed.

I can somewhat understand people crying for the nerf, but really it has more to do with people not being able to use restraint against a Scale DK. I am a DK and was in a pretty intense duel with a Sorc recently. Once he saw the wings, he stopped using projectiles and started using Streak offensively to stun me and used Curse or whatever it is. I ended up winning with ~5% health, but he was one of the few players I've ever come in contact with that actually knew what he was doing. Scales is easy to see, and restraint + keeping composure + knowing your tools will allow you to counter it.

I agree, and what people don't seem to grasp is that DKs do not have any class ranged attacks. (ranged meaning 28m)

I think the ability is perfectly fine, especially at only 4 seconds. It's a really good ability, and can be powerful against anyone mindlessly spamming everything from range.

also

The OP is gibberish.

Draxys · July 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

I can somewhat understand people crying for the nerf, but really it has more to do with people not being able to use restraint against a Scale DK. I am a DK and was in a pretty intense duel with a Sorc recently. Once he saw the wings, he stopped using projectiles and started using Streak offensively to stun me and used Curse or whatever it is. I ended up winning with ~5% health, but he was one of the few players I've ever come in contact with that actually knew what he was doing. Scales is easy to see, and restraint + keeping composure + knowing your tools will allow you to counter it.

In a duel, sure. It is easy to see, though if you don't slot a counter to it, you are in trouble. But where it really becomes a problem is in big battles. Which DK was it that popped his scales? Hard to see when there are so many of them, and you are trying to dodge Talon and Invasion spam. I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, just saying that in the chaos of battle, an ability that requires other players to identify you, track you and have the counter to you on their bar is really quite powerful. Combine that with an AoE CC and a bugged stunlock with Talons/Invasion, and you are requiring someone to constantly play defense and exercise restraint in a way that few other classes can match. It definitely does seem like the DK still has the advantage.

Well like someone else mentioned, DKs have very few ranged abilities. I think there is just one in the class trees, and it's not very good. Reflective Scale is my ranged ability. To go along with your discussion of something that I have to track and have a counter for, I would say the same thing about Sorcs- if I see a Shards-proccing Sorc, my best bet for survival is to keep track of that person and use Scales when I see it being cast or coming my way from instant proc. If not, the insta cast with a crit build will shave my health off real fast.

I could also say something about Temps who spam Biting Jabs and literally stun lock me for 8 seconds straight so that I can't do anything but stand and die... I've found myself in that situation a number of times lately and it's very frustrating when you simply don't have a chance of surviving. A stun cooldown would be nice. But I'll stop the rant there.

I don't know, it seems like the balance is stuck between a rock and hard place. Yes, DKs seem a little too strong in some situations, but we also don't have certain tools that other classes do. I wish balance could always be a simple issue but it unfortunately is not.

orxan.qayibovb16_ESO · July 2014

yes my english is bad because I am Russian. I speak 5 languages and 1 bad english, I wrote the post because that no one before me did not do it İ play for DK and do not understand why DKs so strongly protect imbalance/ anyway I try make Video at night when I capture the castle solo. if sameone want help me plz pm or make video yourself it is not difficult zos give us all sets and max lvl in PTS for make the game enjoyable for all now before patch

thk all and sry for my bad english

Mud_Puppy · July 2014

This is why I like having target buff-debuff indicators.

kkravaritieb17_ESO · July 2014

Well if you cant use your brain when you see a dk casting his fluffy wings well dont blame the dk.

DeLindsay · July 2014

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

It gets tiring for those of us who mainly play PvE getting screwed by a nerf because a PvPer got beaten in a fight with that ability, and then crys for it to be nerfed instead of learning how to defend against it. <(run-on sentence, I know)

Welcome to every single MMO where there is PvP. It is very unfortunate that in most cases crying bads win over the devs to get things nerfed that negatively effect PvE also. I'm not saying the OP is one of them, but we all know it happens with regularity. People these days just want to face roll everything they see and when they can't they cry for NERFS. Now, everyone will admit at times certain abilities are found to be ridiculously OP and in need of a balance pass but this is much less often the case.

I'd wager that a good 70%+ of the time it's nothing more than the above mentioned players that cry louder than the good players so the devs nerf things maybe in a last ditch attempt to shut them up. I also don't see this trend stopping any time soon. Bads pay a monthly sub too and quite frankly there's a ton of them in every MMO, and they love to cry about it online. Poor public opinion (no matter how wrong it is) makes even the hardiest devs change their plans more often then not. In the end ZoS has to pay bills too.

Origin · July 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

No we do not need to nerf reflective scales because ... I can't understand the OP's rant? well enough to figure out why he wants it nerfed. It gets tiring for those of us who mainly play PvE getting screwed by a nerf because a PvPer got beaten in a fight with that ability, and then crys for it to be nerfed instead of learning how to defend against it. <(run-on sentence, I know) . Somehow, in this case, I think the OP is claiming they feel too powerful when using those abilities. OK, so don't use that combo if one thinks it's too easy. Odds are, it's not a single ability that needs to be nerfed, but rather the dynamic of how those abilities work togather needs to be changed.

I can somewhat understand people crying for the nerf, but really it has more to do with people not being able to use restraint against a Scale DK. I am a DK and was in a pretty intense duel with a Sorc recently. Once he saw the wings, he stopped using projectiles and started using Streak offensively to stun me and used Curse or whatever it is. I ended up winning with ~5% health, but he was one of the few players I've ever come in contact with that actually knew what he was doing. Scales is easy to see, and restraint + keeping composure + knowing your tools will allow you to counter it.

But the rest of the players just want to keep spamming the few skills that scales can actually reflect then come cry when they die from it....

Ha, ha. Indeed, all these nerf this, nerf that crying is getting really annoying.

Draxys · July 2014

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Well if you cant use your brain when you see a dk casting his fluffy wings well dont blame the dk.

best summation

heyguyslol · July 2014

orxan.qayibovb16_ESO wrote: »

After test whith
DK
set Resilient Yokeda + Whitestrakes
Reflective Scale + vamp ult + same save skill
\
I can say with absolute certainty We have GOD MODE, I can not even imagine who cope with imperor DK maybe 20 or more ppl can do, but without imperor 5 ppl easy in pvp. Sadly I did not have time to make the test in pve, if there are willing to, we can arrange a test for pvp and make video

Everyone alrdy knows DKs are OP but Zos is apparently taking their time with the nerfs. Hopefully with the class balance patch will bring DKs down to everyone elses lvl.

Baphomet · July 2014

Only overpowered thing I saw mentioned in the OP was bat swarm.

themizario · July 2014

Muletide wrote: »

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

But the rest of the players just want to keep spamming the few skills that scales can actually reflect then come cry when they die from it....

Exactly what I gathered. "Their spamming is effecting my spamming, make them stop!"

Glad to see you two in here!

Adrastes · July 2014

could pvp players just stop crying allready? always same in every game.

Reco · July 2014

Draxys wrote: »

I could also say something about Temps who spam Biting Jabs and literally stun lock me for 8 seconds straight so that I can't do anything but stand and die... I've found myself in that situation a number of times lately and it's very frustrating when you simply don't have a chance of surviving. A stun cooldown would be nice. But I'll stop the rant there.

As a VR1 templar, I find it quite amusing that a DK (the most OP class) asks for a Templar (the weakest class) skill to be nerfed. This is just hilarious. Dude, templar is the weakest class in the game, and it even has its own dev thread where they are posting about their efforts to fix the class. As it is now, Templar appears to be designed to be an ok healer (see magicka problems) and subpar dps/tank. I'm sorry to say this, but you seem to suffer from a l2p issue. Really. (A sarcastic hint: use your god mode?)

Iam_Epiphany · July 2014

My primary concern with Reflective Scale is when it's combined with Ash Cloud.

That way you can't fight them in melee range efficiently and if you move away all they have to do is stand in it and wear you down with long ranged attacks. You can't interrupt a restostaff heavy attack with Force Shock or Venom Arrow either as both are reflected back at you...as well as your autoattacks with these weapons...Allowing them to restore magicka safely.

Move into melee range? enjoy damage, miss chance, being snared in range of Engulfing Flames and no doubt the impending DK standard.

EDIT: The most avid defender of DK Scales I've seen is the Twitch streamer and Youtube video maker SypherPK, a DK himself. When I asked him how he'd deal with this strategy he complained it was cheap and he'd never play that way.
Some people do.

Sharee · July 2014

Personally i'd like to know why an ability that is supposed to reflect spell projectiles also reflects the likes of Flying Blade.

It is a dualwield weapon ability that does physical damage, consumes stamina, uses weapon power for it's damage and weapon crit for it's crit chance. There isn't a iota of magic involved. Yet...

I think ZOS needs to take a look at the number of abilities reflective scale is effective against.

Armann · July 2014

At the very least remove their ability to reflect ranged weapon attacks like bow and DW flying blade. At some point when spellcrafting has settled in the live game this ability needs a review, the argument that DK's lack ranged spells will be moot when they have the ability to create any type of ranged nuke they want.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · July 2014

Sharee wrote: »

I think ZOS needs to take a look at the number of abilities reflective scale is effective against.

They should split reflective scales into 2 skills. One that reflects magic spells, the other that reflects arrows, daggers, etc. So you would have to choose what ranged attack you want to defend against. Less spamming, more thinking involved.