Cyrodiil Tactics in Celarus - PVP exploits\un-intended functions

Dleatherus · June 2014

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I think there should be a leaderboard added for how quickly you can trade out an emp.... time trialed like the AA.

43 minutes is the shortest one I've personally seen - sure there are ones even faster than that

one of the emp farmers was boasting to me that if it wasn't for our '*&$%ing interference' they could flip the map in approx 30 minutes or so since they had agreed with EP to not repair any walls and that we should join them instead of being *&%$heads

D.

Citidel · June 2014

43 minutes... That's a touch too quick. But as you said walls are already down and they can just walk in.

I've been part of some sieges that last for longer then that on Wabba, which is depressing. I ask that anyone reading this that wishes to come to Celarus and help combat the issues in their home... though last night it was really quite oddly quiet.

But that's also because all the main Campaigns end in 2 days? I think Emperor should be disabled across the board till @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ and the rest of the PVP staff have time to re-balance it and get it to a point where its not a farm fest, or so common you are fighting whole zergs of Former Emperors\Empresses.

The Offical "we see this as an issue" does speak mountains though.

quakedawg_ESO · June 2014

Amen! Disable the ability to become Emperor until the issue is addressed. Emperor should be something people look up to (and rare) not laugh at like it is currently. The system needs to be revisited.

Gloran · June 2014

You can't prevent metagaming from happening, it will always take place as long as players can interact which each other individually and independent from the game.

Citidel · June 2014

Cant argue with that, no one says they cant talk to people outside the game via, phone, VOIP, Text or Private Message. Collusion will happen and there is not much to stop it.

Only one Character per Campaign? buy a 2nd account, Travel to Player, you name it. That's not what we are asking for, we are requesting on bended knee that we all get a fair shot at PVP and not having to get harassed every time we want to PVP in a PVP area because we dont want to flip the inner keeps.

And sure as others from your guild have said @Gloran‌ "just go back to Wabba" which is fine and dandy for a large guild and people that enjoy large scale turned up to 11 PVP, I like the smaller action that Celarus provides... why am I relegated to Wabba?

We have buff campaigns, held by your faction that you have emp on that never changes... then you have Wabbajack where everyone goes to PVP in large scale... finally you have Celarus which is the shortest campaign and is controlled by a few jerks with large groups of friends and anyone doing otherwise is SOL as far as assistance.

And I'll admit, I'm Homed in SkullCrusher, I'm 23rd overall, 19th for AD; Why haven't I left? I want to see what end of campaign rewards are and see if it was worth the 2 months spent crashing away at the zone. I had no aspirations of getting Emperor, or getting into the top 10, I'm amazed I broke top 100 tbh.

FENGRUSH · June 2014

Citidel wrote: »

I want to see what end of campaign rewards are and see if it was worth the 2 months spent crashing away at the zone. I had no aspirations of getting Emperor, or getting into the top 10, I'm amazed I broke top 100 tbh.

Id be amazed if theres actually 100 people homed on Skullcrusher.

Citidel · June 2014

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Citidel wrote: »

I want to see what end of campaign rewards are and see if it was worth the 2 months spent crashing away at the zone. I had no aspirations of getting Emperor, or getting into the top 10, I'm amazed I broke top 100 tbh.

Id be amazed if theres actually 100 people homed on Skullcrusher.

There are a few, not sure on numbers but I have friends in the sub 300's though inactives and whatnot still homed there.

Agrippa_Invisus · June 2014

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Citidel wrote: »

I want to see what end of campaign rewards are and see if it was worth the 2 months spent crashing away at the zone. I had no aspirations of getting Emperor, or getting into the top 10, I'm amazed I broke top 100 tbh.

Id be amazed if theres actually 100 people homed on Skullcrusher.

Are you counting actives or inactives?

Dleatherus · June 2014

Gloran wrote: »

You can't prevent metagaming from happening, it will always take place as long as players can interact which each other individually and independent from the game.

metagaming, colluding with another faction in AvAvA to take down the other faction always has, and always will be a part of an AvAvA game - and should be - it prevents one alliance reigning supreme over another for lengthy periods of time

we all know that what is happening here (and that includes active participation of some members of your guild as well) goes far beyond that, and is well outside the 'spirit of the game'

so much so that Brian Wheeler made a rare comment in a public thread (this one) addressing it

- am fine to leave it at that

D.

p.s. more than happy to chat with you about it in /msg or voice comms - forums have a way of sometimes spiraling things downward and out of control

Gloran · June 2014

Edit: nvm, on second thought i'd rather not get involved in this discussion.

Ifthir_ESO · June 2014

Dleatherus wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I think there should be a leaderboard added for how quickly you can trade out an emp.... time trialed like the AA.

43 minutes is the shortest one I've personally seen - sure there are ones even faster than that

one of the emp farmers was boasting to me that if it wasn't for our '*&$%ing interference' they could flip the map in approx 30 minutes or so since they had agreed with EP to not repair any walls and that we should join them instead of being *&%$heads

D.

@Dleatherus‌ please be sure to report those players. I dont know if the staff finds that behavior unacceptable, but there is only one way to find out.

Citidel · June 2014

Gloran wrote: »

Edit: nvm, on second thought i'd rather not get involved in this discussion.

You are more then welcome to pm me. I have no ill will toward your guild or you in particular. I can only relate what I have seen and been told here and in game.

Ifthir_ESO · June 2014

Gloran wrote: »

You can't prevent metagaming from happening, it will always take place as long as players can interact which each other individually and independent from the game.

True, but its like saying you can't prevent theft from happening. Sure you can't 100% prevent it, but you want to do everything in your power to make it is difficult as possible, and at the same time insure that those who do do it, are caught and punished appropriately.

We can't ask any MMO to be 100% insulated from shady gaming. All we can do as a community is point to those people and say that what they are doing isn't what "the community" accepts as legit. Obviously opinions differ.

Some of the examples imho of "shady gaming".

Oh you exploited the 50k boss vet xp to get to v12 while everyone else was just breaking into vet ranks? Not legit.
Oh you duped every item in your guild bank and now your whole guild is in yellows? Not legit.
Oh you farmed Kardala for items/xp when she was exploitable? Not legit.
Oh you farmed AP with your v12's while everyone else was v1-v2? Not legit.
Oh you farmed AP by taking the scroll and going into an-unsiegable house? Not legit.
Oh you farmed AP while caltrops was exploitable? Not legit.

Etc. etc. Of course the argument can be made you were using the system as it allowed you to, but that is just self-gratifying justification.

Hopefully a well-known guild member like yourself urges their guild to be more focused on fair play rather than winning at all costs.

Its unfortunate that in today's gamer's minds, in most cases the ends justify the means. Frags don't smell and all that

Imperator_Clydus · June 2014

Manoekin wrote: »

Only way to do this is to remove the diminishing returns/shared AP by every person in the area. The reason why groups do scroll plays and take bleakers or resources is because it's far better AP gain with just your small group than if you had to share that AP with 100 other people. They can't make objectives the main source of AP because then you'd have guilds just exchanging keeps back and forth or finding low pop campaigns to take a lot of keeps. Again, the only way is to give people a reason to play with the group. A possibility here is to reduce the amount of AP gained across the board because otherwise the AP gain would be enormous.

Emperor... is a bit tricky. Everyone is really upset about it and I get that. I don't think banning people is the right way to do it. I think a good fix for the future which should be doable almost immediately in a small patch is make it so once all 6 keeps are captured by a given faction the top player of that faction becomes Emperor-in-waiting. Require then that faction to hold those 6 keeps for 1-3 hours in order to gain Emperor. Upon taking all 6 keeps, a global message could even be sent out to every player notifying them of the time limit to emperor. This would encourage players to go defend/attack in that campaign. I know people don't like guesting really, but with the stricter rules coming you could even open that campaign for temporary guesting by everyone to draw more players in. This would make the achievement mean a whole lot more, and the experience way more epic.

I also like the idea of an AOE buff of 30-40 meters radiating from a current Emperor/Emperor-in-waiting.

Which is why there would be incentive to actually defend and not keep swap. As far as low population campaigns, they shouldn't even exist if ZOS was moderating AvA properly. A lot of these potential issues can be resolved by ZOS and lead to a much more objective-oriented experience, as it should be.

ZOS isn't going to ban anyone. This is a business. Unless they bought credits or were clearly using cheats or scripting, no one will get banned. That being said, ZOS should discourage further abuses of the system. 90% of the emperors in ESO likely aren't legitimate. You could remove the skill lines away from those in Celarus, but ZOS should have known that campaign was going to be a emperor farm fest to start.

I don't know about an emperor-in-waiting. If Cyrodiil was working as intended, to claim all six keeps is an achievement in itself. Require an additional hour or so to cement an emperor and likely there would never be an emperor. Guesting should die altogether. For one, campaigns can only hold so many before the experience becomes unplayable, as shown by Wabbajack. ZOS should encourage quality AvA on multiple campaigns instead of just one. They only kill their game faster.

An AOE buff from an emperor if you are in a certain proximity of an objective (keep/resource/outpost) they are at would be ideal. I wouldn't say just a certain distance from them anywhere as that would encourage zerg trains and poor tactics in Cyrodiil.

Imperator_Clydus · June 2014

eliisra wrote: »

Imperator_Clydus wrote: »

Well yes, you can technically use a siege shield, for example, outside of Cyrodiil. It's absolutely worthless, however. The Alliance War skill lines are meant for AvA and nothing else. The Emperor skill line is included under that same umbrella.

The Alliance skill line is excellent in PvE. Some of the best PvE skills comes from grinding Cyrodiil. Barrier, Razor Caltroops and Raid Manoeuvre for example. I always have them slotted in PvE and especially in trials.

Not that it's really related to the discussion tho. I mean you get those already at support/assault level 6. Couple of weeks of casual PvP'ing and you get the best defensive group ultimate in the game. What to do after that? Grind emperor or go to Celarus and try to stop your own faction from crowning emperors lol. Fun fun.

This emperor stuff creates to much greed, backstabbing, *** crossfaction politics and drama anyway. It really needs to go.

If anything they should redo the entire PvP progression system. I'm all for removing former buffs and making emperor a faction buff only. Should be replaced with a new progression/reward system based on your own scores and achievements in PvP. The current skill line ain't enough. We need more incentives for blowing up keeps really.

Well really the ultimate prize is supposed to be the Imperial City. For whatever reason, ZOS refuses to make any comments about its current progress and when it will be implemented.

The emperorship and AP gains both need to be scrapped and revamped. The only thing the current AvA system is doing is encouraging players to abuse and ignore it.

Gloran · June 2014

If there has been any violation of code of conduct from any of our players file a report, let me know, i will address the issue personally, we have a zero tolerance policy regarding such matters.

As far as everything else goes, I'll leave the decisions to the Devs.
The initial post had a lot of good points, the discussion however has turned into a witchhunt.

Citidel · June 2014

Gloran wrote: »

If there has been any violation of code of conduct from any of our players file a report, let me know, i will address the issue personally, we have a zero tolerance policy regarding such matters.

As far as everything else goes, I'll leave the decisions to the Devs.
The initial post had a lot of good points, the discussion however has turned into a witchhunt.

The witch-hunt i'll squarely take blame for, as I did a terrible job of staying on topic and steering it back in the original direction. Excuses of passion and wanting the game to get better and all that are not sufficient but maybe next time I'll be more diligent towards my thread and not let it get so far out of hand.

Now, lets all go to Cyrodiil and have some fun murdering each other? no keep flipping, siege capping or anything of the sort, just good old strategy, time and effort. Crown us an Emperor and paint the map Red, Blue or Gold.

yodased · June 2014

lol @ "they are DDOSing my PvP keep" seriously laughing out loud.