How to counter DK Claw (Talons) Spam?

Tintinabula · June 2014

Don't be silly. Talons root me and do damage to me like everyone else. It happens from time to time but its certainly not a game breaking skill.

Halrloprillalar · June 2014

Tintinabula wrote: »

Don't be silly. Talons root me and do damage to me like everyone else. It happens from time to time but its certainly not a game breaking skill.

Not by itself, like I've said before. It's also not the damage of it that is the issue either (at least the solo part... the synergy is a little silly imo).

If they fix the breakout problem and the block/instant spam problem then I won't have any issue with talons. It just happens to be a DK ability, but non DKs can achieve this too, only less easily.

Morticielle · June 2014

If CCs would do no additional damage players would use them more strategic, not just spam them mindlessly. This would solve some problems with the PvP in TESO and the consequences would be the same for ALL classes. Nobody could crowdcontrol another player to death anymore.

Vis wrote: »

Keep range on all DKs.

Should be easy because no DK ever uses his chains or charges at you or attacks you from stealth ...

Edit: Corrected bad grammar.

thelg · June 2014

Use blazing shield its an I WIN button vs melee. Yes its that simple

Halrloprillalar · June 2014

thelg wrote: »

Use blazing shield its an I WIN button vs melee. Yes its that simple

I'll trade you it for lol escape.

Xsorus · June 2014

Know whats more annoying then being Rooted over and over?

Being Feared over and over.

$Infraction$ · June 2014

Armitas wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

I don't ever use immovable since it only helps me. I use maneuvers because it hits the people around me, same with purge.

Again though if you are randomly swinging away though instead of trying to reposition then ya you are playing right into a talon spamming DK. The sword and boards biggest strength is being in their face. You do not have to run that far to know that once you are out of their circle of the standard they will charge you which you block until they do and keep on moving.

If there was a 100 percent chance in pvp this would work without fail don't you think it would never be used? Sometimes I get caught out of position and it's my fault not the DK. Learn the strengths of what they are using and if it's something you run I to a lot build your bar around it.

I get knocked down and rooted all the time by DK's. I've learned the pattern from most of them though and try to avoid playing into their hands.

I understand your point if playing a healing role with immovable and attackers to help you but how are you able to do this without immovable?

The reason I ask is that you cannot cannot also reposition while blocking due to its slow movement speed and the moment you give the DK the distance to Invade he will do so. Even if you block the knockdown you cannot reposition yourself because invade is a 22 meter gap closer. Even if he is not root spamming you he is hitting you from behind at range after the successive invades (typically lava whip 8 meter range)

*It costs over 800 stamina
*If you sprint with it that costs more stamina
*You can't attack
*You can't block while fleeing due to slow movement speed while blocking.
If you flee without blocking or immovable (which costs over 400stam) you will be knocked down.
*Even if you flee to your 'reposition' destination it will immediately be overcome by a 22 meter gap closer that only costs a 1/3 of your reposition cost, does damage, can/will knock you down.

RM does have it's place in a group setting, or in your case for healing when you have immovable and/or attackers that can root the DK from invading while you get out, but as just a general or personal counter I can't see where it wouldn't be a waste. As a 1v1 it would seem to be a fatal mistake. RM seems to be more of a specific answer to a specific situation rather than a general response to talon spam.

They don't always attack you when you reposition. Especially if its multiple people. If he attacks me I keep myself heal with a few support thrown at me. If he attacks my group mate I reposition and heal my group mate. My stamina regen is high enough that even with using RM I have enough to cc break within a couple of seconds. I also carry plenty of pots to make sure I have the resources to continue pumping out heals.

Again im not talking about 1v1 though since the game doesn't revolve around that.

AZRainman · June 2014

Zenimax can look at kill logs and see which races are lacking and work at balancing them better, so no single class is overly dominate. Still waiting...

Derpsicles · June 2014

Armitas wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

I get knocked down and rooted all the time by DK's. I've learned the pattern from most of them though and try to avoid playing into their hands.

I understand your point if playing a healing role with immovable and attackers to help you but how are you able to do this without immovable?

The reason I ask is that you cannot cannot also reposition while blocking due to its slow movement speed and the moment you give the DK the distance to Invade he will do so. Even if you block the knockdown you cannot reposition yourself because invade is a 22 meter gap closer. Even if he is not root spamming you he is hitting you from behind at range after the successive invades (typically lava whip 8 meter range)

*It costs over 800 stamina
*If you sprint with it that costs more stamina
*You can't attack
*You can't block while fleeing due to slow movement speed while blocking.
If you flee without blocking or immovable (which costs over 400stam) you will be knocked down.
*Even if you flee to your 'reposition' destination it will immediately be overcome by a 22 meter gap closer that only costs a 1/3 of your reposition cost, does damage, can/will knock you down.

RM does have it's place in a group setting, or in your case for healing when you have immovable and/or attackers that can root the DK from invading while you get out, but as just a general or personal counter I can't see where it wouldn't be a waste. As a 1v1 it would seem to be a fatal mistake. RM seems to be more of a specific answer to a specific situation rather than a general response to talon spam.

I run RM on my healing bar, and Immovable on my melee/tank bar. If I get rooted AND bannered I will pop RM for the get away for myself and team mates, and then pop immovable to ensure I get away safely.

Now i understand that is a whopping 1200 staming (A full pool for caster types) but unless you are in a 1v1 this is PLENTY of time to get distance WITHOUT having to sprint and get knocked down).

If after the 8+ seconds of immovable and 30% speed and you are still toe-to-toe with him... guess what? You have enabled your team to get away so he wastes his ult and aoe spam on JUST you ( a small victory in itself).
Just survive while the rest of the crowd he just (unsuccessfully) rooted repositions and nukes his ass down.

Halrloprillalar · June 2014

Derpsicles wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

I get knocked down and rooted all the time by DK's. I've learned the pattern from most of them though and try to avoid playing into their hands.

I understand your point if playing a healing role with immovable and attackers to help you but how are you able to do this without immovable?

The reason I ask is that you cannot cannot also reposition while blocking due to its slow movement speed and the moment you give the DK the distance to Invade he will do so. Even if you block the knockdown you cannot reposition yourself because invade is a 22 meter gap closer. Even if he is not root spamming you he is hitting you from behind at range after the successive invades (typically lava whip 8 meter range)

*It costs over 800 stamina
*If you sprint with it that costs more stamina
*You can't attack
*You can't block while fleeing due to slow movement speed while blocking.
If you flee without blocking or immovable (which costs over 400stam) you will be knocked down.
*Even if you flee to your 'reposition' destination it will immediately be overcome by a 22 meter gap closer that only costs a 1/3 of your reposition cost, does damage, can/will knock you down.

RM does have it's place in a group setting, or in your case for healing when you have immovable and/or attackers that can root the DK from invading while you get out, but as just a general or personal counter I can't see where it wouldn't be a waste. As a 1v1 it would seem to be a fatal mistake. RM seems to be more of a specific answer to a specific situation rather than a general response to talon spam.

I run RM on my healing bar, and Immovable on my melee/tank bar. If I get rooted AND bannered I will pop RM for the get away for myself and team mates, and then pop immovable to ensure I get away safely.

Now i understand that is a whopping 1200 staming (A full pool for caster types) but unless you are in a 1v1 this is PLENTY of time to get distance WITHOUT having to sprint and get knocked down).

If after the 8+ seconds of immovable and 30% speed and you are still toe-to-toe with him... guess what? You have enabled your team to get away so he wastes his ult and aoe spam on JUST you ( a small victory in itself).
Just survive while the rest of the crowd he just (unsuccessfully) rooted repositions and nukes his ass down.

So a team vs DK scenario, got it.

rwood0604_ESO · June 2014

lol I just think it's funny how DK's want to defend themselves by providing "counters" to talons being used on you, but while they may be right to a point(say talons being used once and then countering) but for a talon spamming they would fail horridly. Yes please use half your stam or more to get out of one talon just to be knockeddown and take more damage cause you think it was safe to escape when you made it even worse. this game is fun but it seem more like it was just a single player game that was put online so you could play your single player mode with others, a few typical dungeons thrown in and it's an MMO, but the part they messed up on the most was making the massive PVP cause the game is horribly unbalanced and nothing can be done to fix the PVP side of the game without destroying the PVE side which most people rush through anyways because most people that play MMO's are use to endgame rushing cause it is normally where all the fun is but sadly like I started off with this is built like a single player game with the addon of MMO so the endgame really isn't there, and was a supporter for this game from the start so I am really hoping this turn around but as of now I am just bored

$Infraction$ · June 2014

rwood0604_ESO wrote: »

lol I just think it's funny how DK's want to defend themselves by providing "counters" to talons being used on you, but while they may be right to a point(say talons being used once and then countering) but for a talon spamming they would fail horridly. Yes please use half your stam or more to get out of one talon just to be knockeddown and take more damage cause you think it was safe to escape when you made it even worse. this game is fun but it seem more like it was just a single player game that was put online so you could play your single player mode with others, a few typical dungeons thrown in and it's an MMO, but the part they messed up on the most was making the massive PVP cause the game is horribly unbalanced and nothing can be done to fix the PVP side of the game without destroying the PVE side which most people rush through anyways because most people that play MMO's are use to endgame rushing cause it is normally where all the fun is but sadly like I started off with this is built like a single player game with the addon of MMO so the endgame really isn't there, and was a supporter for this game from the start so I am really hoping this turn around but as of now I am just bored

For the record I'm a nightblade healer and find myself able to survive more than not. If you expect someone to give you a 100% miracle counter that worked every time talons would disappear over night as it's usefulness is gone completely.

No one pvp situation is like another.

SteveRuimy · June 2014

Dodge roll - Immovable and also if you're a sorc "streak" is the best way to get out of this situation

Halrloprillalar · June 2014

SteveRuimy wrote: »

Dodge roll - Immovable and also if you're a sorc "streak" is the best way to get out of this situation

that counters only one talons (the roll). Then what? Immovable doesn't stop roots.
And all your stam is gone now.

Streak puts you in a perfect spot for another invasion (but still lesser of 2 evils between that or banner).

SteveRuimy · June 2014

Oh I'm not saying it's the perfect solution, most of my deaths are from talons spam.. I use a tri pot in this situation and try to get out of here as fast as possible but if the DK uses Sword & Board and charge me + talons again yeah you're pretty much dead.

Cody · June 2014

I just try to roll if possible, but im also a NB, and I almost always get a sneak jump on them, and flee if they don't die the first 5 seconds:/ I myself rarly give them a chance to do it, but the 2 best ways: roll, and purge. in fact, purge would solve a lot of problems ppl face in PVP. particularly oil

yodased · June 2014

Devs fixed that for you. You are immune to the same CC after you have been CC by that CC, So this is moot

/thread.

Halrloprillalar · June 2014

NookyZooky wrote: »

I just try to roll if possible, but im also a NB, and I almost always get a sneak jump on them, and flee if they don't die the first 5 seconds:/ I myself rarly give them a chance to do it, but the 2 best ways: roll, and purge. in fact, purge would solve a lot of problems ppl face in PVP. particularly oil

Except purge is expensive (unmorphed, yes qq).

I try to avoid fighting DKs 1v1 unless they are already on my face. Sometimes I live.

Bramir · June 2014

I found myself rolling all over the place yesterday...it shouldn't cost but a fraction of the stamina required to do that...only reason I can roll that much is I don't use stamina for much else.