How to counter DK Claw (Talons) Spam?

monden1980b16_ESO

I keep getting killed by DKs in PVP, they seem to just keep spamming talons on me and keep me locked up (the more skilled ones dance around me so I don't even have a chance to target them).
Of course I try to block (sword+shield), heal (templar instant heal) and CC break (right+left mouse button)... but it seems CC break does not work or at least I just get CC'd right after again, I just burn my stamina... plus their heal and DPS seem to be by far superior to me (I know, nothing new, I'm a vet12 templar, medium armor, stamina based build... maybe I shouldn't expect anything else?).

So my question: What to do against claw spamming DKs?

Sharee

CC break does not work against roots. You need to roll to break out of them.

Nijjion

What Sharee said you need to roll out of them.

To roll you need to double tap a direction... or better yet go into your controls and set a button for it. Setting a button for roll is 10x better as it means you can be more reactive to an event which you need to roll dodge out of.

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO

Welcome to pvp the land of DK talon spam and bolting sorcs.

Yep rolling counters talons but until they put it on a timed cast time u can't counter them from spamming them. IMO talons should be on a 1.5 sec cast time so it can be interrupted.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

I keep getting killed by DKs in PVP, they seem to just keep spamming talons on me and keep me locked up (the more skilled ones dance around me so I don't even have a chance to target them).
Of course I try to block (sword+shield), heal (templar instant heal) and CC break (right+left mouse button)... but it seems CC break does not work or at least I just get CC'd right after again, I just burn my stamina... plus their heal and DPS seem to be by far superior to me (I know, nothing new, I'm a vet12 templar, medium armor, stamina based build... maybe I shouldn't expect anything else?).

So my question: What to do against claw spamming DKs?

Don't worry, is very easy to kill a DK if you play as Templar. You only have to keep "Blazing Shield" up all the time.

ThyIronFist

Double roll.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

I am having issue with this also. I know I can roll out, but what usualy happens is that he root me again. It deals insane ammount of dmg with no effort. Especialy when he drops also banner or what it is. Talons are dealing 300 hp dmg to me as per death report.

I guess the lag when many ppl gather around is the biggest problem though.

Because what usualy happens to me is this:

I start the attack (from stealth) or I jump at him with ambush skill. He stands up, cast talons, standard and I die like in an instant or after one roll. Then I see in death recap talons like 3 times and standard + heavy attack or something like that.

Yet based on that death recap I am more and more convinced it is the lag that keeps killing me. He had to sped more than 2 seconds to kill me.

Yet I have 12Mbit connection which workd perfectly with any other game. I don't experience much of a problem in PvE or PvP (if I pick single player and ther are no others around.)

But when I come across huge army it lags like hell. Still DKs are mine main killers.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Guys, seriously.... Blazing shield consume less magicka than Talons. If you use it, is simply impossible that a Melee DK can kill you.

Glantris

you can break out of talons with a purify if you can't roll for whatever reason. rapid maneuvers and purge will break your friends out as well, and retreating maneuvers will break you out and also make you immune until you attack again, which is useful for healers who don't attack and need to kite around.

Glantris

also, if you're stamina based as a templar... i can see why you'd be having issues

Gilvoth

dragonights and sorcerers are over powered in elderscrolls online.
templars and nightblades deal alot less damage and cannot survive as long as dragonights and sorcerers.
it's a fact, and threads like this one are more proof.
@ZOS_GinaBruno please witness this thread and please tell the developers to increase the nightblade and templar damage output and survivability. we simply cannot compete equally and fairly with dragonights and sorcerers as nightblades and templars.

Ifthir_ESO

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Welcome to pvp the land of DK talon spam and bolting sorcs.

Yep rolling counters talons but until they put it on a timed cast time u can't counter them from spamming them. IMO talons should be on a 1.5 sec cast time so it can be interrupted.

Could be wrong but Talons costs nothing if it doesn't hit.

Also, the second you roll dodge out of talons, expect a vamp DK to drain you.

Ifthir_ESO

The sad truth is DK is the most OP PvP class by a country mile, and has been since day 1 of the PTS.

Apparently the developers are ok with this.

Talon spam, talon spam, talon spam, standard is pretty brutal. Its even worse if you are a vamp.

DK is retardedly OP in comparison to the other classes, from a PvP sense.

Halrloprillalar

Eclipse, biting jabs, hold block.

Roll out of bannertalons ASAP.

kirnmalidus

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Welcome to pvp the land of DK talon spam and impulsing sorcs.

Yep rolling counters talons but until they put it on a timed cast time u can't counter them from spamming them. IMO talons should be on a 1.5 sec cast time so it can be interrupted.

Fixed that for you to reflect recent patches.

Armitas

A typical DK root spammer will have a shield on. If you roll out of talons you will give him the room for an invasion knock down followed by another root. Unless you are in a stamina build if you roll out to many times you will not have the stamina to block when you need to. If you can't block you will get knocked down and rooted for an extended duration (bug) and it will kill you.

I would have a build on your second bar for a face to face fight with a resto staff. Use the resto staff to keep yourself up (Illustrious healing/rapid regeneration). Block cast with your class skills when you can and only roll out if the banner goes down. When you block spells with a resto staff you restore your magicka for more healing. Because the DK will be split between magic and stamina use (invasion/talons etc) he will run out of one of them quicker. If he runs out of stamina he can't block and you can knock him down. If he runs out of magic he can't root you so kite him.

If you are in a stamina build out last his talon resource with rolls followed by a block to the ensuing invasion. If you are in a magicka build out last his stamina and magic with self healing and block casting.

monden1980b16_ESO

Thanks for all the replies... guess I mixed CC break and roll dodge up a bit (concerning root)^^ But first tests showed, that it doesnt benefit that much either if talons gets spammed...

Will try sun shield / blazing shield... afaik eclipse does only work for single target spells? So it will probably be useless against talons...

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Could be wrong but Talons costs nothing if it doesn't hit.

And yes, talons doesnt use magika, if no enemy is hit.

Infraction

Retreating maneuvers is my best friend. You learn after a while pretty much how and when a DK is going to react. The spammers are the easy ones because they are just like a npc mob where they only have a set rotation and if it fails they don't know what else to do. That is about 90% of the DK's I encounter.

Malmai

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

The sad truth is DK is the most OP PvP class by a country mile, and has been since day 1 of the PTS.

Apparently the developers are ok with this.

Talon spam, talon spam, talon spam, standard is pretty brutal. Its even worse if you are a vamp.

DK is retardedly OP in comparison to the other classes, from a PvP sense.

You can get easily out of that esp. banner ofc in zergs you cant be hero and survive like a superman, embrace that you lost. Also DK's are not fault if you are Vampire...

Eivar

Malmai wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

The sad truth is DK is the most OP PvP class by a country mile, and has been since day 1 of the PTS.

Apparently the developers are ok with this.

Talon spam, talon spam, talon spam, standard is pretty brutal. Its even worse if you are a vamp.

DK is retardedly OP in comparison to the other classes, from a PvP sense.

You can get easily out of that esp. banner ofc in zergs you cant be hero and survive like a superman, embrace that you lost. Also DK's are not fault if you are Vampire...

someone missed the point completely lol.

Ifthir_ESO

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

And yes, talons doesnt use magika, if no enemy is hit.

I wish I had a single ability that acted like this. Every skill my class has burns the mana regardless. Wonder why ZoS made talons not do this.

Ifthir_ESO

Malmai wrote: »

You can get easily out of that esp. banner ofc in zergs you cant be hero and survive like a superman, embrace that you lost. Also DK's are not fault if you are Vampire...

As @Eivar said above, you clearly missed the point.

Agrippa_Invisus

Efficient purge is the most powerful spell/morph in the game at the moment, IMO. More people need to run it and more people need to group with those that do.

It is the answer to Talons (I'm a DK and run it on one bar -- I don't roll out of Talons, I purge out), it is part of the solution to oil farms and defenses, and handles any other number of debilitating issues.

If a DK dives into the middle of my team to Talons spam+root, usually two purges quickly cast is enough to keep my team free and safe. That leaves the DK sitting in his banner circle, no targets near him, wondering what the hell just happened. If he Invasions out to knock someone down, they have full stamina still to break the KD/Stun and he's out of his circle of 20% less damage taken and gets vaporized.

Whether I'm set up for Shield/Resto Staff or Destro/Resto Staves, I always have Purge on my bar.

And I'm a DK.

Bashev

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

And yes, talons doesnt use magika, if no enemy is hit.

I wish I had a single ability that acted like this. Every skill my class has burns the mana regardless. Wonder why ZoS made talons not do this.

I guess this is a bug. It appeared 1-2 weeks ago if I remember correctly and it was not mentioned in any of the patch notes.

Kypho

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Efficient purge is the most powerful spell/morph in the game at the moment, IMO. More people need to run it and more people need to group with those that do.

It is the answer to Talons (I'm a DK and run it on one bar -- I don't roll out of Talons, I purge out), it is part of the solution to oil farms and defenses, and handles any other number of debilitating issues.

If a DK dives into the middle of my team to Talons spam+root, usually two purges quickly cast is enough to keep my team free and safe. That leaves the DK sitting in his banner circle, no targets near him, wondering what the hell just happened. If he Invasions out to knock someone down, they have full stamina still to break the KD/Stun and he's out of his circle of 20% less damage taken and gets vaporized.

Whether I'm set up for Shield/Resto Staff or Destro/Resto Staves, I always have Purge on my bar.

And I'm a DK.

And dont forget, Purge is removing 2 negative effect. Like mark target from NB, You can remove CC from an ally, you can remove siege dots, you remove oil dots, any any dots, anything even snares and roots. Sadly you need to cast it instantly if dots are reaplied. Good thing, less ppl die from oilpots, or talonspam if some dudes would use it. Ive seen my faction had 30+ ppl and only me and an other guy used purge, and i cant understand why. You help your allies and yourself with it. Cost too much magicka? Morph it to the less costing version. Wont help you if you come here and cry how OP are oilpots, talons, standard if you refuse to use the most powerful ability to remove negative effects, because you play a brainless DPS or TANK only who just zerging with others spamming aoe or single attack, melee a DK who deployed talon and standard. Would not be much better if you see your allies stuck in standard+talon, and you pop a purge and see how your friends NOT losing more health and pwning the DK? Or when your allies burning from oil, you pop purge, and watching that they dont die anymore? It using one slot i know, it cost magicka, but its powerful if you want to help yourself and your allies. Thats IMO.

Mykah

This is why Talons should be blockable.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Given the amount of DKs in Cyrodiil, the amount of Talons spammed is so high, that even if I break 3 of them in row at the same spot, I still get caught by the 4th. (by rolling).

The sad thing is that, you cannot resist then, nor block and they are insta cast.

As Templar, trying to break them for the group around me, leaves me with almost no mana to heal or to remove other CC.

Also they are bugged as hell. You can be on top of the tower, spam them and grab the guys on the floor below.

Also Eclipse and morphs cannot stop them. Nor ANY of the attacks the DK has. Because the majority are AoE attacks.

Only direct damage abilities are blocked by Eclipse.

Talons + Standard when drop together = certain death. Cannot be blocked, cannot be avoided and cannot be resisted.

Anyone who might say "L2P" yeah. Need to roll a DK and spam them first.

Vis

Keep range on all DKs.

The vast majority will spam shield charge. Roll into them before they reach you. The better DKs have talons qued as they charge. The combined effect of this counter causes them to lose both stamina and magicka with no cc or damage done to you while putting yourself behind them and primed for another attack.

Countering before they arrive disorients and frustrates DKs as they waste resources.

Sorcs can interchange this with bolt as they try to save on stamina.

Vis

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

rich_nicholsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Welcome to pvp the land of DK talon spam and bolting sorcs.

Yep rolling counters talons but until they put it on a timed cast time u can't counter them from spamming them. IMO talons should be on a 1.5 sec cast time so it can be interrupted.

Could be wrong but Talons costs nothing if it doesn't hit.

Also, the second you roll dodge out of talons, expect a vamp DK to drain you.

I did not know it costed nothing on no hits. If that is true it is broken and the devs need to fix it ASAP. That is definitely an op bug.

Vis

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

And yes, talons doesnt use magika, if no enemy is hit.

I wish I had a single ability that acted like this. Every skill my class has burns the mana regardless. Wonder why ZoS made talons not do this.

My bolt even burns magicka when it fails to go off (and that is with the regeneration nerf and cost increase).

With a bug like that, how could anyone put DKs and sorcs in the same boat.

ThyIronFist

Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »

dragonights and sorcerers are over powered in elderscrolls online.
templars and nightblades deal alot less damage and cannot survive as long as dragonights and sorcerers.
it's a fact, and threads like this one are more proof.
@ZOS_GinaBruno please witness this thread and please tell the developers to increase the nightblade and templar damage output and survivability. we simply cannot compete equally and fairly with dragonights and sorcerers as nightblades and templars.

This comment gave me cancer.

Nightblades deal not enough damage... lmao.

L2P issues. I've seen Templars outheal DKs by a massive difference. Nightblades can vanish, even in combat, so don't give me this crap that they dont have enough survivability.