ESO vs other MMORPG

theyancey

If this had been a forced group game many of us would not have bought it. I like the informal grouping that ESO has. No waiting for this person's bio break, that one's agro from mother/wife, etc. I like having that freedom!

Yasha

Audigy wrote: »

Must be your computer because my experience is the same as the other poster, only very minor issues then nothing. Everything was fine, no clipping, lag, boss or world boss or dungeon issues at all.

Its not really about my PC, no matter if WS or ESO I don't experience any lag´s, crashes or other issue´s on the highest settings, but that doesn't mean that both games cant be optimized better. Both forums are full of people who complain and this is my point. You cant say "its not there", just because you didn't experience it yourself. This by the way is something that ESO haters love to say to us if we run ESO smooth

There was nearly no lag in WS beta, if you moved out of a mob's aoe you did not get hit, all abilities/actions triggered totally smoothly.

That is in direct contrast to ESO, where I get hit even when standing far out of mob aoe/range and skills often do not activate as intended- something which has been pointed out even by big ESO fans like Force.

What's more, the forums over there were not full of people complaining, the scale and number of issues it faces is nothing like ESO.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

The only real problem I see is that it has become quite hard to find common mats as the bots are farming them so hard.

A real problem that the bot swarm has created. They really don't impact me much otherwise.

Bromburak

Apricot wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

Wildstar combat is very action oriented, perhaps even more so than ESO. Certainly the combat in that game is nothing like WoW.

And you really must like Mickey Mouse style ...

I only can speak for my self but those comic like games are terrible. Worst visual style ever. Even blizzard is trying to patch kid and asian styles. I hate this kind of development in games.

No one cares if you hate the graphics. The graphics are a matter of preference but the game play totally blows ESO out of the water.

No one cares if you don't like the game play in TESO! Its a matter of preference!
Good bye!

zaria

Well my problem is that I have chat from two guilds who overlaps.
Why can I not just click on guild name in chat and writhe in that channel?
Is it an mod who let me have multiple windows? Guild1, guild2 and general? I tried two but they only gave errors.

In short its sometimes to much activity however I want it
Being in a friendly guilds decide if you will subscribe in the game for long or not.

Start dropping some of the inactive guilds and join some better, one benefit in ESO is that you can be member of multiple guilds for multiple reasons, one small RP guild, one large PvP guild and so on. you can also try out other guilds without dropping the one you are in.

kalilkareem

What will determine ESO's fate now is if they can show a solid end game or not. If the end game is there it is likely that enough people will stay to play if, if not; well, its over.

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO

Well dude seeing how Angry joe bashed this game utherly can you in all honesty even say he wasnt right? That guy is a real commentator there and yet he hated on most of the things in this game save ironicaly for the fighting system itself. Gota love to see the cashman joke about how we get utherly scammed everyday yet dont care but again i do have the money to get myself scammed since i wasted 200$ every 4 month on GW2 cash shop and perfect world. God knows we got to much money dont we?

LordNoah1234

Say what you want but this game RULES!!! (*)

Evergnar

I like the game but it should have been more group oriented. There never should have been so many solo quests. That's what other ES games are for. I really hope Zos takes a serious look at it grouping and realizes how important it is for this game.

Hiddenbunny

lets not lump being social and want to do group contents together. All you guys mentioning about guilds are true regardless whatever game this is. The fact is that the group content/tools for ESO is just lacking.

You might want to play solo questing, and I would argue the implementation of questing is a lot better and engaging in eso compare to wow. But as soon as you want to do something with friends, or strangers, the lack of utility such as a real functioning LFR tool smack you right on the mouth. It takes wow years to refine its LFR system, and despite there are people who still hate it, I'd argue that's one of the saving grace for wow. When you take away hassle and give people more time on the "fun" part, its generally a good thing. Some of you might disagree, but yelling in zone chat for 30 to get a group is not fun, sitting in LFR tool for an hour, even while doing your quests, its not that great either.

This is said again and again on other threads. ESO isn't a mmo, its designed as a single player game you happen to see a lot of people running around, and you are paying a monthly subscription for. There is really nothing in the game that encourages grouped PVE play, everything involving more than just you is either time consuming, giving you no xp, or very little rewards. Unless ZOS actually comes out and say "we want you guys to group more, and here are the incentives to do so and here are the tools to do so", this is still a solo game.

ErykGrimm

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

Well dude seeing how Angry joe bashed this game utherly can you in all honesty even say he wasnt right? That guy is a real commentator there and yet he hated on most of the things in this game save ironicaly for the fighting system itself. Gota love to see the cashman joke about how we get utherly scammed everyday yet dont care but again i do have the money to get myself scammed since i wasted 200$ every 4 month on GW2 cash shop and perfect world. God knows we got to much money dont we?

Angry joe...really? It is one thing to be entertained by someone with an IQ of 80, it is another thing entirely to give him any credit as a reliable source of review. But you kinda prove the intelligence point by spending that much on GW2. A part of me hopes this post is satirical in nature.

damonpeltob14_ESO

ErykGrimm wrote: »

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

Well dude seeing how Angry joe bashed this game utherly can you in all honesty even say he wasnt right? That guy is a real commentator there and yet he hated on most of the things in this game save ironicaly for the fighting system itself. Gota love to see the cashman joke about how we get utherly scammed everyday yet dont care but again i do have the money to get myself scammed since i wasted 200$ every 4 month on GW2 cash shop and perfect world. God knows we got to much money dont we?

Angry joe...really? It is one thing to be entertained by someone with an IQ of 80, it is another thing entirely to give him any credit as a reliable source of review. But you kinda prove the intelligence point by spending that much on GW2. A part of me hopes this post is satirical in nature.

i spent more than 15$ a month on guildwars 2 aswell easy to do what can i say i like shiny stuff but in the end of my time with it i spent most of my time opening dyes lol no way in heck id play wildstar after that its the same thing with a sub and will probably have a cash shop too. i played in the beta last weekend to check it out wasnt impressed that said have fun with it if it scratches that itch ima ride this eso wave and see if it can give me a love of final fantasy 11 proportions yall have fun what ever yer doing

takes me forever to type spare me the punctuation *** act englich is my third language after drunken nord and catnip hazed khajit

Westcoast14_ESO

gonzoliving wrote: »

I only mention this as I used to play Guild Wars which was known for encouraging working in teams and groups to complete quests and the like. People used to try talk people into joining their guilds and would help their guild members and yet I have not received a single guild invite. Is this normal?
...

My last guild quit GW2 because there was essentially no need for guilds (their name for it became Guildless Wars). The games highly open cooperation framework and combined with low requirements for highly coordinate cooperation made it essentially impossible to maintain guild coherence in game. Stated differently, if anyone can just run around in a largely disorganized pack an feel effective in PvP and PvE, that kind of kills the reason for most guilds to exist (e.g. completing content or creating content that requires substantial coordination over a substantial period of time).

So even though the guild members initially gave the game very high reviews (most of them curiously calling it the best MMO they had ever played, before the social costs of its game play became evident), it eventually became effectively a solo experience for everyone. No persistent social bonds were required. As a result, the guild members left the game. If you want guilds (persistent meaningful social hubs) you don't want to create a situation where for the vase majority of the content, the other players might as well be "helper" npcs.

The above is also the reason they have held off from joining in on ESO (necessitating my finding a new guild). They saw a lot of the same potential for guildlessness in ESO. After having played through the content up through VR3, I would have to say that for the most part they were correct in their assessment for the game as it stands currently. The only thing holding guilds together for now is large scale pvp (which is in decline except for a small number of campaigns) and the absence of an auction house.

What is missing on the PvE side for them is group PvE content that requires substantial learned skills (as opposed to twitch skills). This means encounter mechanics that take a while to learn and master; put differently it requires encounters that demand the kinds of skills where invested time in coordinated effort makes a big difference. That's the kind of in game challenge that requires long term social hubs (e.g. guilds). Something that can be learned and beaten an afternoon wont suffice. At the other end, putting in extreme requirements for things like reaction speed will quickly make it apparent that only a minority can effectively participate.

This is the kind of encounter design that the developers for FFXIV, WoW and Wildstar seem to understand. These games have the kinds of encounters that necessitate you actually communicating with your party members before, during, and after attempts. ESO's framework is capable of supporting encounters with the same essential characteristics, and I think Craiglorn is a step in the right direction. It would be nice if there was some genuinely guild friendly group PvE content before VR 10 though.

On the PvP side, there are a small number (a substantial minority) of active and excellent campaigns where PvP action is readily accessible. Something needs to be done to the inactive campaigns to refocus the action. Consolidating campaigns would be a good idea. And if you want to have 24/7 objective base PvP, you probably need to allow guild alliances to hold keeps. Guilds tend to be substantially active during a relatively small portion of the day for a number of reasons. If you allowed guild alliances to take keeps, a group of guilds whose activity spanned the entire day could present the kind of holding force needed to make taking a keep meaningful.

You can have a lot of solo content, and you can have a lot of content that has low requirements for persistent coordinated action. There just has to be sufficient guild friendly content in the game (and appropriate rewards/incentives for completing that content) for guilds to thrive.

Bromburak

The AOE triggers with buffs in GW 2 had some potential but 90% in WvW is about Zerg and in this case you will always benefit of the triggers so it requires no skill at all.

As long you have spies all over the map and a commander with people that listen to the leader you roll over everything!

This kind of passive game play is very boring in pvp environments.

Srugzal

IronMaiden_burnout wrote: »

This is old news! its a mega crap shoot server with nothing but bots all over so don't waist your time!
Guilds are a joke, people join 5 guilds to simply benefit themselves and nothing else.
Tons of players are buying gold online from these bots so economy is down the shitter.

This game is nothing but a hack-able mess. It needs to be shut down and fixed.

Sorry if I come by as blunt but I say it like it is!

Nope. I guess we're playing different games. I'm in a single guild that sponsors a variety of group activities, has a well organized bank, and offers quite a bit of social interaction. I've never bought any gold, and don't know anyone who has, and I can't see what "economy" you're talking about. Granted I don't buy or sell other than to/from merchants, but neither do I need to. I get requests to join in groups several times a day, and many times informal groups of people cooperate to take out world bosses, dolmens, rifts, dungeon bosses, run public dungeons, etc. There's a ton out there. Cooperation happens, but it may not be sticking to the formalized "grouping" tools provided by the game designers.

Bots are a problem with every MMO, and ZOS is hard at work. The game isn't a mess. It has issues, as every complex computer system has. But I just don't think your blanket condemnation of the game is accurate.

Blunt is fine. Accurate is even better.

Shiroro

Unfortunately I'm in the third main zone of the 1st VR faction and there are less than 20 people in the entire zone at any given time. The social aspect of the game is functionally broken from the ground up and Zenimax needs to ignore all endgame content until they address that.

This patch also happened to clunkify most of the popular class skills, making the combat system now worse than any mainstream MMO released in the past 5 years. That includes vanilla FFXIV.

Demonruler

I Propably have to agree to this OP complains
I play most of the time alone now almost all my friends left the game.

And ESO just does not support grouping in a positive way!
It's a hassle and i rather feel like playing this game alone.

So i guess i will be waiting for some updates and fall back to GW2 for now

Khandi

Demonruler wrote: »

I Propably have to agree to this OP complains
I play most of the time alone now almost all my friends left the game.

And ESO just does not support grouping in a positive way!
It's a hassle and i rather feel like playing this game alone.

So i guess i will be waiting for some updates and fall back to GW2 for now

All of my friends have left as well. We had 17 people that came over to ESO, some, like myself, are just playing out to the end of their subs, but every single one has canceled the subs. *Every* *Single* *One*

yelloweyedemon

Demonruler wrote: »

So i guess i will be waiting for some updates and fall back to GW2 for now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYbetvkPA6I

madfeldoreb17_ESO

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

Well dude seeing how Angry joe bashed this game utherly can you in all honesty even say he wasnt right? That guy is a real commentator there and yet he hated on most of the things in this game save ironicaly for the fighting system itself. Gota love to see the cashman joke about how we get utherly scammed everyday yet dont care but again i do have the money to get myself scammed since i wasted 200$ every 4 month on GW2 cash shop and perfect world. God knows we got to much money dont we?

This wasn't to me but I'm picking your reply to someone because:
I bashed Angry Joe's "review" of ESO on some youtube channel, got some not nice comments on my channel afterwards - well actually only from one person (haven't checked the youtube channel itself lol) but I think it included the most used swear words in english language and some other things also:) It was an interesting reaction, when I disagreed with a negative review.
One man can have many followers, doesn't mean he is right or wrong though imo, just... opinion. Everybody can say nowadays that have played this and that many games / MMOs and knows stuff because of that, shrug. Best to judge always yourself (talking in general, not about you Kyubi).

Cheers...

yelloweyedemon

madfeldoreb17_ESO wrote: »

Kyubi_3002b16_ESO wrote: »

Well dude seeing how Angry joe bashed this game utherly can you in all honesty even say he wasnt right? That guy is a real commentator there and yet he hated on most of the things in this game save ironicaly for the fighting system itself. Gota love to see the cashman joke about how we get utherly scammed everyday yet dont care but again i do have the money to get myself scammed since i wasted 200$ every 4 month on GW2 cash shop and perfect world. God knows we got to much money dont we?

This wasn't to me but I'm picking your reply to someone because:
I bashed Angry Joe's "review" of ESO on some youtube channel, got some not nice comments on my channel afterwards - well actually only from one person (haven't checked the youtube channel itself lol) but I think it included the most used swear words in english language and some other things also:) It was an interesting reaction, when I disagreed with a negative review.
One man can have many followers, doesn't mean he is right or wrong though imo, just... opinion. Everybody can say nowadays that have played this and that many games / MMOs and knows stuff because of that, shrug. Best to judge always yourself (talking in general, not about you Kyubi).

Cheers...

People actually look up all those "reviews" of the million whiny gamers with a youtube channel? ...

madfeldoreb17_ESO

Khandi wrote: »

Demonruler wrote: »

I Propably have to agree to this OP complains
I play most of the time alone now almost all my friends left the game.

And ESO just does not support grouping in a positive way!
It's a hassle and i rather feel like playing this game alone.

So i guess i will be waiting for some updates and fall back to GW2 for now

All of my friends have left as well. We had 17 people that came over to ESO, some, like myself, are just playing out to the end of their subs, but every single one has canceled the subs. *Every* *Single* *One*

At times I think some people have big need to say how they have unsubbed or cancelled their subs or their friends have. Why for example you felt the need to publish that? At least the one you quoted said he will fall back to GW2 so in ESO vs other MMORPG battle there was a clear winner for him - at least at this time.
But I don't really see that as being very insightful to mention just that "I have cancelled and all my friends".
Have to say then I guess, none of my friends have cancelled or unsub, though all my friends in ESO are coming from net games and/or especially from ESO. So I do not have "so called" real life friends playing this game, as none of them play these kind of games online anyway.
What you make out of that? I guess me and my net friends and Guild friends still like the game and look for the future in no need to cancel or unsub. There's something for everyone though, other games if not this one.

PS. I still don't quite understand how people are having hard time grouping. Okay the grouping "tool" might be pretty bad, but I have had no trouble finding people to group and Guilds to join and enjoy. Actually, I have never used the grouping tool (it should be better true).

Cheers...

Bromburak

Angry Joe is a bad comedian, nothing else.

Khandi

madfeldoreb17_ESO wrote: »

Khandi wrote: »

Demonruler wrote: »

I Propably have to agree to this OP complains
I play most of the time alone now almost all my friends left the game.

And ESO just does not support grouping in a positive way!
It's a hassle and i rather feel like playing this game alone.

So i guess i will be waiting for some updates and fall back to GW2 for now

All of my friends have left as well. We had 17 people that came over to ESO, some, like myself, are just playing out to the end of their subs, but every single one has canceled the subs. *Every* *Single* *One*

At times I think some people have big need to say how they have unsubbed or cancelled their subs or their friends have. Why for example you felt the need to publish that? At least the one you quoted said he will fall back to GW2 so in ESO vs other MMORPG battle there was a clear winner for him - at least at this time.
But I don't really see that as being very insightful to mention just that "I have cancelled and all my friends".
Have to say then I guess, none of my friends have cancelled or unsub, though all my friends in ESO are coming from net games and/or especially from ESO. So I do not have "so called" real life friends playing this game, as none of them play these kind of games online anyway.
What you make out of that? I guess me and my net friends and Guild friends still like the game and look for the future in no need to cancel or unsub. There's something for everyone though, other games if not this one.

PS. I still don't quite understand how people are having hard time grouping. Okay the grouping "tool" might be pretty bad, but I have had no trouble finding people to group and Guilds to join and enjoy. Actually, I have never used the grouping tool (it should be better true).

Cheers...

Because a lot of them went to Wildstar and I didn't think *that* was worth saying.

AgriyaTheGrey

Grouping, not grouping ...all I want to say is that within the past 12 hours I got the group challenge ach for Obsidian Scar in Rivenspire pretty much by accident. Found it while wandering and went straight in without looking at the map, so didn't see the group dungeon icon: consequently I went in solo, thinking it was just another public dungeon. Quickly ended up in a group after informally helping out another soloist and we were then joined by a 3rd and a 4th, then when we'd done the Orc quest and killed Zilbash I somehow ended up in a second group while making my way out and ended up going round again assisting the new bunch.

Had I known it was an official 'group dungeon', I'd have been inhibited about going in solo, but this just illustrates how easy grouping is in ESO. Never been so easy to group in an MMO in my experience.

Shaun98ca2

Grouping in this game is more "organic". Players near me can easily assist me as I can easily assist them without the need to click "invite". Most MMOs DO NOT make grouping this easily (except GW2).

There is PLENTY of group content in this game. I also like that I can run group dungeons multiple times to get loot without really having to worry about out leveling the solo content I want to complete as close to proper level as possible.

Xanxarib16_ESO

well i for one hope Zenimax get there act together over the next few month, we all know why we dont like this game, or why we love this game.

i for one loved and the leveling up to 50, the lore and questing was perfect, and i had just as much from 1 to 50 as i had in Swtor when i leveld up my character.

but like Swtor, they had no endgame at all, and this is what killed me in the end like swtor ESO failed to finish the game. i still cross fingers that there endgame content will get better then Craglorn (yes much much harder then it is now)

im a Hardcore raider, and a Hardcore PvPer, and thats a bad thing for i am a minority in the MMO, like 5% or something of the population.

Hardcore PvP'er means i need to play a mmo that have a full Sandbox player controlled game, with the no pain no game Philosophy in there, also why i play D3 and PoE Hardcore.

for PvE i need hardcore raids to keep me in the game, and im sorry but a 12 man raid is just not hardcore for me, yes they can be hard to complete, but a 20 or even 40 can offer so much more, and many more boss mechanic then a mere 12 man raid can.

Craglorn is way to easy, we saw that on live stream, and after iv been in them they are just to easy, yea they have a top 100 ladder and that is nice, but thats not why i raid.

and to the Angry joe remarks, everyone know who he is, or more of us know him, and he are most of the time spot on, when its single player game.
When it comes to he's review of ESO he did't get past lvl 20, that a joke, he did't play PvP more then a few hours and that again is a joke, in fact he only took a sample of the game and judge the whole game on that, that is in no way a valid review!


anyway im off to Wildstar for they have what i need (20 and 40 man raids) better combat system , but crappy cartoon ish looks


i might come back in a few month time if Zenimax wakes up!

PS, i spend 80$ on this and i dont feel its a waste! same goes for Swtor, i did't feel i wasted my money on any of the two games, but please learn from this, we need solid PvP and/or PvE endgame! if you want us to play your game after we hit max level!

yelloweyedemon

Xanxarib16_ESO wrote: »

for PvE i need hardcore raids to keep me in the game, and im sorry but a 12 man raid is just not hardcore for me, yes they can be hard to complete, but a 20 or even 40 can offer so much more, and many more boss mechanic then a mere 12 man raid can.

Oh you're soooo wrong...

I havn't seen a 40 man raid that was not a zerg fest. In a hard 12 man raid, one tiny mistake from ANYONE, even the lowest dps, and the whole raid was gone.

I remember raiding in WoW and Rift, (i think 40 ish or something like that), and the whole mechanics were just to avoid the pudles on the ground. Rest was tank n' spank.

Nothing beats the early Lotro days (SoA and MoM)

drogon1

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Grouping in this game is more "organic". Players near me can easily assist me as I can easily assist them without the need to click "invite". Most MMOs DO NOT make grouping this easily (except GW2).

There is PLENTY of group content in this game. I also like that I can run group dungeons multiple times to get loot without really having to worry about out leveling the solo content I want to complete as close to proper level as possible.

Holy bejeebus. I take it you don't roll many alts.

Many people love to play alts. Without an option to level their alts in dungeons, for example, they are forced to plod through the same single player content - quests! - again and again and again ad nauseam.

Quests and dungeons should give comparable gosh darn xp. So that all playstyles can be accommodated, not just some. If you don't want to outlevel your quests, then don't run dungeons. If you don't want to quest anymore, go level in a dungeon. At the moment, there is one playstyle being permitted in this game if you hope to advance your character before Christmas: questing single player content.

At VR levels it supposedly changes, but it's just plain bad MMO design which will lose them subs for no reason other than stupidity.

Xanxarib16_ESO

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

Xanxarib16_ESO wrote: »

for PvE i need hardcore raids to keep me in the game, and im sorry but a 12 man raid is just not hardcore for me, yes they can be hard to complete, but a 20 or even 40 can offer so much more, and many more boss mechanic then a mere 12 man raid can.

Oh you're soooo wrong...

I havn't seen a 40 man raid that was not a zerg fest. In a hard 12 man raid, one tiny mistake from ANYONE, even the lowest dps, and the whole raid was gone.

I remember raiding in WoW and Rift, (i think 40 ish or something like that), and the whole mechanics were just to avoid the pudles on the ground. Rest was tank n' spank.

Nothing beats the early Lotro days (SoA and MoM)

that funny for Rift 20 man had the world hardest boss in Hammerknell!
And i find it even more funny that you think a 40 have to be more forgiving then a 12 man raid - with that logic 4 man groups should be harder then 12 man raids and solo content should bring the hardest content in the game.


i think we are done here!