ESO PvP. Zergy, Boring, and Pointless

Lowbei

im sorry that no good guilds will group you so you have to solo or zerg.

less butthurt tho if you dont mind

Grimnix173

NordJitsu wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

I think you're exaggerating how "zergy" the PvP is. I'll admit, if you aren't with an organized group with a TeamSpeak server, you're pretty much just zerging or solo ganking. But if you do get with a good group, things become a lot more fun.

My group ranges any where from 6-24 people with an average of probably 12-15. Sometimes we go participate in the largest fights on the map, but usually just to fulfill our 20 player kill quota for the day. The rest of our PvP is spent on better things.

For example: The other day EP was getting pushed back hard in a two front war. They were struggling to keep Arrius Keep, where one of our scrolls was held. Initially, my group joined up with the zerg fight. But I quickly decided we could be more helpful elsewhere. So we left and rode all the way down into enemy territory. Our goal was castle Faergyl. For those who don't know, the 3rd keep away from the enemies home gates is the linchpin to their entire transit system. My group captured all 3 resources at Faergyl and then started attacking the keep. This had two effects. First, it prevented anyone from using the Transitus links to go reinforce the fight at Arrius. Second, it drew attention to us. A large group of AD came to defend Faergyl and my group was ultimately unsuccessful in taking the keep. However, in the mean time, the pressure was off our EP zerg at Arrius. They ended up winning that fight and going on the offensive for the first time in HOURS.

Most of them probably didn't even know the impact we'd made on their far away fight. But that's the kind of thing that ESO's PvP allows for. Grand strategic thinking, not just mindless zerging, affects the out come of battles. I could give dozens more examples.

Additionally, I think you need to pick a better campaign. On Wabbajack, I find small scale fights all the time. One of my favorite things to do in ESO is the Cyrodil dailies (yes they already have dailies you silly goose.) Run from town to town doing the quests, which reward you gold and XP (useful even at VR10 to level up new skills), and just look for players. You'll find all kinds of fun fights in the dungeons and towns.

The other day, I had an AMAZING fight with a VR10 Sorc. He'd fight for a bit, then Bolt away when his health got low. Since I wasn't in a group situation, I decided I wanted to chase him.

We ended up having a nearly 15 minute fight that took us half way across Cyrodiil. It was an epic war of pitched battles, tense chases, more pitched battles, and finally an epic conclusion (I won.) My only regret was that the "no emotes in combat" system prevented me from /honor 'ing him.

Now, all that said, I do think there's room for improvement.

This game could greatly benefit from more small scale PvP. I think a dueling system is an absolutely necessity. An Arena system would also be fun, but I don't think its quite the must have feature of dueling (though I want both.)

So I guess my final point is: Don't give up. Give ESO PvP a try for a bit longer. Get with an organized group and see how much more fun the big battles are. Do some small group roaming in the quest zones and dungeons. That kind of thing.

WTB OP response.

That first scenario you talk about is really what Cyrodiil is all about I'd say thats working as intended. Sounds fun.

But a lot of people don't see the crux of the OP. That is simply the lack of options.

your encounter with that other sorc sounds fun too, I've had plenty of awesome 1v1's, they are just too few and far between. I can't run around a zone for 15 minutes looking for one dude to kill. Thats not my idea of intense pvp.

It goes like this:
hunt a player takes like 8 minutes to find a solo dude.
kill said player
rejoice?

then back to hunting...There is just no point. I never get the feeling of a win or lose and thats the problem I have right now with pvp. The 3 month timer on campaigns is just nutty.

The fact that this is a split issue will really dictate where this game goes. But I don't care what anyone says....RvR will forever and always be a casual format to pvp in. I don't find casual pvp fun, because it is pointless and brings along with it an apathy when concerning winning or loosing.

Napkins

Lowbei wrote: »

haha if you werent a zerger, then you wouldnt have got all butthurt over me telling them not to zerg. and you obviously dont have a group to run with or you would have wanted to 6v6 or something.

less butthurt please scrub lol

also your statement of "i tell can you're a stupid person." is absolutely adorable haha

Only 6v6 cause everything else doesn't matter to this one! The fact you turned down his 1v1, tells everything about ur skill.

Lowbei

lol maybe if you were any good, a pro group would pick you up and you wouldnt have to solo, and thus might have more fun.

no offense, just trying to help, i dont need any more tears from you

Grimnix173

Lowbei wrote: »

lol maybe if you were any good, a pro group would pick you up and you wouldnt have to solo, and thus might have more fun.

no offense, just trying to help, i dont need any more tears from you

Read the above post man. You're coming off like an A$$ hat.

reagen_lionel

Grimnix173 wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

I think you're exaggerating how "zergy" the PvP is. I'll admit, if you aren't with an organized group with a TeamSpeak server, you're pretty much just zerging or solo ganking. But if you do get with a good group, things become a lot more fun.

My group ranges any where from 6-24 people with an average of probably 12-15. Sometimes we go participate in the largest fights on the map, but usually just to fulfill our 20 player kill quota for the day. The rest of our PvP is spent on better things.

For example: The other day EP was getting pushed back hard in a two front war. They were struggling to keep Arrius Keep, where one of our scrolls was held. Initially, my group joined up with the zerg fight. But I quickly decided we could be more helpful elsewhere. So we left and rode all the way down into enemy territory. Our goal was castle Faergyl. For those who don't know, the 3rd keep away from the enemies home gates is the linchpin to their entire transit system. My group captured all 3 resources at Faergyl and then started attacking the keep. This had two effects. First, it prevented anyone from using the Transitus links to go reinforce the fight at Arrius. Second, it drew attention to us. A large group of AD came to defend Faergyl and my group was ultimately unsuccessful in taking the keep. However, in the mean time, the pressure was off our EP zerg at Arrius. They ended up winning that fight and going on the offensive for the first time in HOURS.

Most of them probably didn't even know the impact we'd made on their far away fight. But that's the kind of thing that ESO's PvP allows for. Grand strategic thinking, not just mindless zerging, affects the out come of battles. I could give dozens more examples.

Additionally, I think you need to pick a better campaign. On Wabbajack, I find small scale fights all the time. One of my favorite things to do in ESO is the Cyrodil dailies (yes they already have dailies you silly goose.) Run from town to town doing the quests, which reward you gold and XP (useful even at VR10 to level up new skills), and just look for players. You'll find all kinds of fun fights in the dungeons and towns.

The other day, I had an AMAZING fight with a VR10 Sorc. He'd fight for a bit, then Bolt away when his health got low. Since I wasn't in a group situation, I decided I wanted to chase him.

We ended up having a nearly 15 minute fight that took us half way across Cyrodiil. It was an epic war of pitched battles, tense chases, more pitched battles, and finally an epic conclusion (I won.) My only regret was that the "no emotes in combat" system prevented me from /honor 'ing him.

Now, all that said, I do think there's room for improvement.

This game could greatly benefit from more small scale PvP. I think a dueling system is an absolutely necessity. An Arena system would also be fun, but I don't think its quite the must have feature of dueling (though I want both.)

So I guess my final point is: Don't give up. Give ESO PvP a try for a bit longer. Get with an organized group and see how much more fun the big battles are. Do some small group roaming in the quest zones and dungeons. That kind of thing.

WTB OP response.

That first scenario you talk about is really what Cyrodiil is all about I'd say thats working as intended. Sounds fun.

But a lot of people don't see the crux of the OP. That is simply the lack of options.

your encounter with that other sorc sounds fun too, I've had plenty of awesome 1v1's, they are just too few and far between. I can't run around a zone for 15 minutes looking for one dude to kill. Thats not my idea of intense pvp.

It goes like this:
hunt a player takes like 8 minutes to find a solo dude.
kill said player
rejoice?

then back to hunting...There is just no point. I never get the feeling of a win or lose and thats the problem I have right now with pvp. The 3 month timer on campaigns is just nutty.

The fact that this is a split issue will really dictate where this game goes. But I don't care what anyone says....RvR will forever and always be a casual format to pvp in. I don't find casual pvp fun, because it is pointless and brings along with it an apathy when concerning winning or loosing.

That pretty much echos what I said about pvp here as well.

NordJitsu

Lets just stop fighting and start talking about the topic. Leave the personal insults aside maybe.

I do definitely agree that the game would benefit from an Arena and a Dueling System. Honestly, I figured out so much about this game from dueling on the PTS. We were able to get people from other factions to meet up with us and engage in 1v1 fights where individual skill was all that mattered.

I feel like Live players are at a huge disadvantage without that experience, because its much harder to test builds in a large scale PvP setting.

I don't know that I'd agree that RvR is "casual" (tell that to the Emperor's who play for 80hrs a week to earn their title) but it certainly is a different type of PvP.

Myself, I enjoy both.

But I don't see why options hurt anyone.

Not everyone enjoys small scale PvP where skill matters. Some of these players are casuals who'd rather be in a group because they aren't as effective on their own. Others are hardcore players who relish the grand strategy aspect.

But equally, some people just want to cut the BS and get to the combat. The part of PvP they enjoy is pitting skill against skill in otherwise balanced battles.

I think there's plenty of room for both personally and I think we can get ZOS to agree if we lobby hard enough.

Lowbei

so, 4v4 or gvg arenas on daily timers to keep them from being farmed, thus distracting from cyrodiil?

frwinters_ESO

Go find your own content. Me and my guild go out to do quests or dungeons when we want a breakl and we get our small scale PvP.

Last night headed over to Bruma and low and behold small group of DC scattered in the town. Running in and out of the houses, dodging Daedra NPC's to get at eachother. It was fun. I died!

joshisanonymous

@Grimnix173 It sounds like you're more of an MMA/boxing kind of guy than a hunting kind of guy. To me, the hunt is half the fun. That's what Cyrodiil is for soloers, essentially a giant human hunting game. I find that thrilling and think it's just as competitive as an arena, just in a different way.

As far as getting the feeling of winning that some people are saying is missing: I don't understand. Every battle won feels like a win to me. Successfully screwing the war plan of the other alliances, as in NordJitsu's example, feels like a win. Finishing off a difficult solo fight feels like a win. Finding a difficult solo fight, whether I lose or not, even feels like a win. Taking on larger numbers feels like a win. Stopping enemies from reaching skyshards feels like a win. As long as encounters have that feeling of unpredictability that makes them exciting, I feel like I'm winning, because it's fun. These are personal wins, sure, and I think that just harkens back to my point: some are MMA/boxing types, not the hunting types. I feel like AvA just wasn't made for these players, unfortunately. Your suggestions, Grimnix173, are nice, but they're all implemented already, and wouldn't change the fact that you don't get tossed instantly into perfectly matched fights with little effort.

There are objective wins available, too, of course. Emperorship, scrolls, bonuses from holding keeps, etc. The Imperial City will also add another big objective win as well if it's setup like Darkness Falls from DAoC.

Maybe the problem is that a lot of people don't feel like they're winning unless the game explicitly gives them a pop-up that says: "You win!" I mean, you literally get points even, which rank you among everyone else. It's hard to see what more could be done to address this apparent issue.

NordJitsu

Lowbei wrote: »

so, 4v4 or gvg arenas on daily timers to keep them from being farmed, thus distracting from cyrodiil?

When ever someone says that new PvP options would "detract from Cyrodiil" my thought is, "who the hell cares?"

If people would rather be doing small scale PvP instead of Cyrodil, they should be able to. This game is "play how you want to play" not "play my way because if I allow you to play your way less people will be playing my way."

Lowbei

well true... but the primary concern of zos is that it would detract from cyrodiil, so i wanted to cover that before someone said it.

Draconiuos

I think ZOS missed a big chance to do something great with Cyrodil with the Fighter's guild Bounty Quests. I think they should have done something more like CoV had when it launched, in one of their pvp zones tied with CoH. You would get a bounty target and a quest marker that would update every few minutes roughly showing the area said target was. This could have worked out very well for Cyrodil and adding small scale pvp.

reagen_lionel

Draconiuos wrote: »

I think ZOS missed a big chance to do something great with Cyrodil with the Fighter's guild Bounty Quests. I think they should have done something more like CoV had when it launched, in one of their pvp zones tied with CoH. You would get a bounty target and a quest marker that would update every few minutes roughly showing the area said target was. This could have worked out very well for Cyrodil and adding small scale pvp.

That would be a good idea, but not for cyrodil in its current state. As it is now, cyrodil almost exclusively promotes zerg battles. the chances that your target will be either in a large zerg or in one of thier home keeps is very high. And that will make this feature very under utilized, cause you have literally no chance of getting to your target admist a zerg (unless you are a vampire with the "tactic" ).

Draconiuos

reagen_lionel wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

I think ZOS missed a big chance to do something great with Cyrodil with the Fighter's guild Bounty Quests. I think they should have done something more like CoV had when it launched, in one of their pvp zones tied with CoH. You would get a bounty target and a quest marker that would update every few minutes roughly showing the area said target was. This could have worked out very well for Cyrodil and adding small scale pvp.

That would be a good idea, but not for cyrodil in its current state. As it is now, cyrodil almost exclusively promotes zerg battles. the chances that your target will be either in a large zerg or in one of thier home keeps is very high. And that will make this feature very under utilized, cause you have literally no chance of getting to your target admist a zerg (unless you are a vampire with the "tactic" ).

That happened sometimes even in CoV, but that is part of the fun sometimes. Also, the quest should be a repeatable, kind of like the kill 20 players one was. This will give people incentive to leave zerg to go after a target, because you have to remember that when you have a target you are also a target. So, it will promote a hunt and be hunted kind of environment. And even if you target is in a zerg that is part of hunting them down.

Oblongship

Grimnix173 wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

i run with 6 usually and wipe zergs. if you arent having fun in pvp, then you failed, not the game.

Really your group of 6 takes out 20-60 people? Man scrub bashing sounds fun.

My v10 DK would roll you...I know because I haven't ran into a 1v1 that I've lost. So I doubt I'd loose in a 61v6.

I can tell you're a scrub though by your name and your post.

Only person who sounds like a scrub right now is you...

beravinprb19_ESO

To be honest, I'm spending less time in Cyrodiil simply because I do not enjoy that style of PvP. I had more than enough of WvW / RvR in GW2 already, so I'm already rather bored. If we have alternative forms of PvP, then that gives people like me something to do. If people leave Cyrodiil for the other form of PvP, then that just means they enjoy it more.

Mendoze

Have you tried less populated campaigns. Set your home campaign in to some of those, and I'm sure you find much more small scale PVP

Zubba

I agreee with OP here. I suggest alot more activities in cyrodiil spread out all over the map. Things we need to do to support our Alliance. Small tasks. Things the other Alliances can interupt. This would make for a much more interesting open World PvP enviroment.

reagen_lionel

Zubba wrote: »

I agreee with OP here. I suggest alot more activities in cyrodiil spread out all over the map. Things we need to do to support our Alliance. Small tasks. Things the other Alliances can interupt. This would make for a much more interesting open World PvP enviroment.

yes pretty much this in a nutshell is what I've been echoing since beta.

beravinprb19_ESO

Mendoze wrote: »

Have you tried less populated campaigns. Set your home campaign in to some of those, and I'm sure you find much more small scale PVP

I have indeed. However, that comes with plenty of its own problems. The less population the campaign has, the more time you will spending running around, doing nothing, trying to find a fight. On low population campaigns, I can go for 30 minutes without a fight.

Oblongship

Honestly...the pvp just sucks in this game for the most part...

I am going to be that frank about it...

It is unbalanced, repetitive (not in a fun way), low time to kill, high return to action and buggy...

The worst part of it all...ZOS drags its feet on implementing fixes for things openly driving users away. No I am not talking about "fixing" things talked about in nerf threads...

I mean bugs...infinite loading screens, abilities not going off, passives not working etc...

They can't even adhere to their own statements. They stated the patch would be on the PTS no more than 10 days....we are now 6 days short of a month since that post, they also tweet out ITS COMING TOMORROW! then take it back an hour later...

ZoS needs to look internal before it is to late because their lack of communication isn't just to its customers...it seems they have major internal issues to.

ZoS' lack of action is killing their own game.

Froobert

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

Grimnix173 wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

i run with 6 usually and wipe zergs. if you arent having fun in pvp, then you failed, not the game.

Really your group of 6 takes out 20-60 people? Man scrub bashing sounds fun.

My v10 DK would roll you...I know because I haven't ran into a 1v1 that I've lost. So I doubt I'd loose in a 61v6.

I can tell you're a scrub though by your name and your post.

haha looks like i hurt this bads feelings. thats adorable. sounds like your zerg has been rolled by my 6man already by how mad you are.

stop zerging and ill stop farming you

Nah , never been in a zerg that lost to 6 people , so i will keep zerging.

Still , those 6 should have the good sense to run away.

DUHFAQ IS ZERGING Iunno qq

Froobert

Oh, and the best way to win in PvP is: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/97643/sheilds-shield-bashing-for-dummies-how-to-bash#latest

Shield Bash ;D

Kewljag_66_ESO

I enjoy teh PVP very much, it has everything and depending on what i want to do i can easlily do it, weather is zerg play with keep seiges and defense or if its waitinng between points where i ambush and play in the small competative skirmishes. If i feel like PVP and PVE mixed i will go to the enemy towns and do the quests as i run into enemy players to fight. The game just doesnt hold your hand and set up a fight for you, you have to go find it, which is actually pretty easy when you figure out the system

Lowbei

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/98001/6man-zerg-farming?new=1

stop zerging

Thechemicals

Where else will i get my kills without the zerg attacking me.
http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/2/Open/EU VOD Releases/Arn Tempelriddaren/_derived_jpg_q90_600x800_m0/Arn4.jpg?partner=allmovie_soap

Lowbei

bomb zergs = profit

my guild only runs a couple hours each weekend night, yet we are all in the top 100.

why? because we dont zerg

heres some videos. now stop zerging plz, thanks.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/98001/6man-zerg-farming?new=1

Thechemicals

Thanks bro, we get it. Your awesome.

Lowbei

*you're