ESO PvP. Zergy, Boring, and Pointless

Grimnix173

This a response to the posters who keep saying you need to go out and create the pvp you want to create.

Wow, great thought guys, reads like something from the side of the box. Too bad it isn't even an option. In cyrodiil you have a few choices when you join in, those are:

Look for a keep under attack, Attack / Defend there.
Gank reinforcements coming from the closest enemy keep.
Also there are the quest and skyshards you can also camp / get.

There are variations on these 3 features that you can partake in but pretty much you can summarize them as above.

So I'm a player who goes into Cyrodiil to look for small scale encounters. It seems this is what most players that are serious about pvp are wanting to do. I have two options:

Go sit and camp reinforcement lines
or
go hunt world objectives (quest, dungeons, and Skyshards)
or
Stalk around a keep that is under attack and wait for randoms to get to far from the zerg.

Camping reinforcement lines gets extremely boring and eventually results in you getting swarmed by 4-8 players. You just randomly kill people that don't have a clue they are about to get attacked. Its fun smashing through people and getting some 3v1's. But this gets boring...reminds me of WoW World pvp where it was about grieffing and not about pvp. And grieffing through pvp doesn't give any player satisfaction unless you're halting what that player was trying to do, like a quest or something of that natural. This feeling can't be achieved in this game sense there is no world pvp.

Then I think why an I even out here ganking these guys...I'm not progressing my character at all as AP is so worthless ( I could talk about this for a whole thread) and I'm not even really testing my builds or combos, since its pretty easy to win as a v10 when you get the jump on someone unless they bolt away. So really I'm just ganking to see how long it takes for a zerg to build up and kill me...Fun...I eventually hit a wall and just log off. *** get boring...Because I FEEL LIKE I'M FORCING THE non-Zerg v Zerg PVP I WANT.

The problem I have with hunting or creating that pvp you want in the Cyrodiil...is that to pvp I don't want to run around an empty zone for 30-40 minutes just to smash two lvl20's getting skyshards....Or smashing a v10 that was looking at his skills as he was doing the 8 minutes ride back to the battle...

I think its extremely obvious that the Tribe has spoken.

Cryodiil needs design enhancements to provoke and create small scale battles. Until then I think the pvp is honestly....as casual as you can get. There is nothing serious about taking keeps in a zerg of 150 where if you logged out no would notice your absents. I'm not going to log in for pvp run to the battle for 6-10 minutes. Get there, sit outside a keep for another 15, then move in stand there for 15 minutes then move onto the next keep? WHERE IS THE PVP!!! This keep warfare is Siege N Wall V. Player.

Also who gives a flying F Bomb if a keep is taken or defended....IT Means Nothing!

Every hour you spend in Cyrodiil is an hour of progression on your character lost.

So, you're in there to test you character out and see where your build falls. Good luck doing that. Instead you'll spend around 30% of your time starring at a wall. Then getting zerged down half way through a 1v1 or 2v1. Then spend 20% of your total time in there running back to the fight. Depends on how aggressive you are.


My suggestions:

Give me daily quest that force me to explore Cyrodiil. I can find small scale pvp here.

Create more things around the map to encourage people to branch off the roads.
Off the top of my own damn head.

Siege workshops: these would be scattered around cyrodiil the more workshops your alliance controls that more dmg their siege weapons do.

Raiding outpost: these would be scattered around the zone your alliance can capture them to increase your alliance stats when around an enemy keep under attack.

Armories / stone masons: Capture these points to increase your alliances NPC's stats and Keep wall health.

These types of features would fill in some of the gaps that Cyrodiil is missing.

PS: Capturing scrolls is pretty much a running simulator and I dont wanna run for 1.5 hours to get my 1k ap for the quest turn in...

I'm not saying I've hit the nail on the head..I just know I'm not having fun in cyrodiil and its not because balance issues, its not because combat, its because I'm forced into experience that I don't find enjoyable and there are literally no options to get my pvp fix currently. In the meantime I'll level an alt since the PvE is the only thing special about this game.


The pvp system flat out sucks. Everything about is pointless and non-rewarding. I'd farm AP the zerg v zerg way if there was actually things I wanted to buy with ap....But there is only a neck and ring. Good thing I havent spent the 650k on those casue they will be worthless when craglorn comes out. This is coming from a 24 year old RPG gamer who loves pvp. I'm pretty sure I'm hitting the target demographic pretty hard...Yes, I know I'm the DaoC old timer..But if your going to replicate a games systems from 10+ years ago...Where is the progression, where is the innovation and most importantly where is the incentive to not just go play that other game.

Mendoze

I think your biggest problem is that you are VR10. Most players are still way below your level, and maybe that's why other solo players avoid you. They might be sneaking 20 meters from you, but because they have very little or no chance to win, they just move on. You probably have to wait that others can reach level cap too, and then I'm sure you can find lot more solo players to have fun fights against. At least when I'm running around, I see lot's of solo players/ small groups hiding around.

Tadhg_Longhouse

I am not quite sure how what you are suggesting will help your boredom. There are already scout quests that 'force' you to explore, and there is plenty of daily PvE quests if you want to progress your character in a small scale PvP environment. Instead of ganking around quests, just quest and leave yourself open to ambushes and random encounters. You don't have to attack every player you see. I often leave other alliances alone if they are obviously afk.

I feel like many players who dislike aspects of this game are expecting it to be something it isn't. If people play it like it's a free roaming exploration and adventure MMO rather than a grind to top level and wait for endgame to be fun, they might enjoy it more. There is more to this game for me than character progress. But maybe that isn't the kind of game people want to play. I don't know. All I know is that I enjoy the game and I'm not interested in getting to VR10, Craglorn or anything else in a hurry.

Godless_Heathen

People have gotten used to pvp in small confined battleground/arena like environments that allow them to control every variable. Back in the day, mostly due to technological limitations, 5 x 5 (and higher) pvp was the way to go. Thankfully, we no longer have those limitations.

ESO offers a different pvp experience, a large playfield that attempts to duplicate war,vs a 5 minute mini game. I knew this going in, this style of pvp is simply not for everyone; its really that simple.

Morticielle

Godless_Heathen wrote: »

People have gotten used to pvp in small confined battleground/arena like environments that allow them to control every variable. Back in the day, mostly due to technological limitations, 5 x 5 (and higher) pvp was the way to go. Thankfully, we no longer have those limitations.

ESO offers a different pvp experience, a large playfield that attempts to duplicate war,vs a 5 minute mini game. I knew this going in, this style of pvp is simply not for everyone; its really that simple.

You do know that Dark Age of Camelot had a huge Area for RvR (Realm vs. Realm) fights, from which TESO has copied? And you do also know, that this was 12 years back in early 2002? No, you don't seem to know that, because you talk about 'techinical limitation' back in the day. DaoC had great battles with 300 to 500 players.

Kililin

DAOC great, big battles with mucho lag.
But no AoE Cap and with AE CC so it was better.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

Cyrodill is just AvA(RvR) we have been getting over the last decade. It's fun for a bit but then you understand why the majority of MMO don't add it into their games. Players want to fight other players quick and not invest hours just for a few minutes of until enjoyable combat since ganking is not competitive PvP

Also the fact that you can't win or lose in Cyrodill is pretty meh

Lowbei

i run with 6 usually and wipe zergs. if you arent having fun in pvp, then you failed, not the game.

Grimnix173

Lowbei wrote: »

i run with 6 usually and wipe zergs. if you arent having fun in pvp, then you failed, not the game.

Really your group of 6 takes out 20-60 people? Man scrub bashing sounds fun.

My v10 DK would roll you...I know because I haven't ran into a 1v1 that I've lost. So I doubt I'd loose in a 61v6.

I can tell you're a scrub though by your name and your post.

Nox_Aeterna

I really like the big battles that happens sometimes in zergy PvP , so im fine.

I also manged to get all the skyshards in PvP , was a bit annoying.

reagen_lionel

I agree with this post. There isnt much incentive for small scaled engagements outside of the zergs. Theres alot of open areas and some quest hubs and public dungeons here and there.

But those are just too few. There needs to be things between those as well. And in addition, with all the campaigns, alot of these areas are empty because alot fo the people who want to do things outside of zergs are spread out over so many campaigns.

When I go into cyrodil. I do not want to be with a big zerg. It just feels tedious and repetitive to me after a while.

I dont mind ganking but only when its kind of a natural incentive. Right now ganking is predetermined instead of unpredictable. When you go to a quest hub or around a public dungeon or skyshard, if the population is medium to high, you can expect to be ganked. Out in the vast open spaces, its much less likely you will get ganked, cause theres no reason for anyone to be there other than to just be crossing. Theres little monsters, not all that many resources either so that doesnt slow people as they are crossing by.

I'm with the OP in full regard.

AlMcFly

Um, isn’t all PvP pointless? It’s not like it has any lasting changes on the game world at large. So WHAT if you took “Bumf*ck Keep” in the lands of “FlippityFlop”. It’ll have to be retaken again, and again, and again, and again.

PvP is for wasting time and having fun. If it’s not your cup of tea, then leave lol. I’m not really sure what you were expecting? WoW PvP was boring and has no impact on anything. RTS games like League of Legends are even more boring as sh*t. In my eyes, you just do the same thing on the same maps over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. The only purpose PvP serves is to sharpen useless skills that will be obsolete by the time you move on to a new game. It’s also an epeen circle-jerk for players to compare their “abilities” with strangers who they’ll never meet or interact with in real-life.

Lowbei

Grimnix173 wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

i run with 6 usually and wipe zergs. if you arent having fun in pvp, then you failed, not the game.

Really your group of 6 takes out 20-60 people? Man scrub bashing sounds fun.

My v10 DK would roll you...I know because I haven't ran into a 1v1 that I've lost. So I doubt I'd loose in a 61v6.

I can tell you're a scrub though by your name and your post.

haha looks like i hurt this bads feelings. thats adorable. sounds like your zerg has been rolled by my 6man already by how mad you are.

stop zerging and ill stop farming you

NordJitsu

I think you're exaggerating how "zergy" the PvP is. I'll admit, if you aren't with an organized group with a TeamSpeak server, you're pretty much just zerging or solo ganking. But if you do get with a good group, things become a lot more fun.

My group ranges any where from 6-24 people with an average of probably 12-15. Sometimes we go participate in the largest fights on the map, but usually just to fulfill our 20 player kill quota for the day. The rest of our PvP is spent on better things.

For example: The other day EP was getting pushed back hard in a two front war. They were struggling to keep Arrius Keep, where one of our scrolls was held. Initially, my group joined up with the zerg fight. But I quickly decided we could be more helpful elsewhere. So we left and rode all the way down into enemy territory. Our goal was castle Faergyl. For those who don't know, the 3rd keep away from the enemies home gates is the linchpin to their entire transit system. My group captured all 3 resources at Faergyl and then started attacking the keep. This had two effects. First, it prevented anyone from using the Transitus links to go reinforce the fight at Arrius. Second, it drew attention to us. A large group of AD came to defend Faergyl and my group was ultimately unsuccessful in taking the keep. However, in the mean time, the pressure was off our EP zerg at Arrius. They ended up winning that fight and going on the offensive for the first time in HOURS.

Most of them probably didn't even know the impact we'd made on their far away fight. But that's the kind of thing that ESO's PvP allows for. Grand strategic thinking, not just mindless zerging, affects the out come of battles. I could give dozens more examples.

Additionally, I think you need to pick a better campaign. On Wabbajack, I find small scale fights all the time. One of my favorite things to do in ESO is the Cyrodil dailies (yes they already have dailies you silly goose.) Run from town to town doing the quests, which reward you gold and XP (useful even at VR10 to level up new skills), and just look for players. You'll find all kinds of fun fights in the dungeons and towns.

The other day, I had an AMAZING fight with a VR10 Sorc. He'd fight for a bit, then Bolt away when his health got low. Since I wasn't in a group situation, I decided I wanted to chase him.

We ended up having a nearly 15 minute fight that took us half way across Cyrodiil. It was an epic war of pitched battles, tense chases, more pitched battles, and finally an epic conclusion (I won.) My only regret was that the "no emotes in combat" system prevented me from /honor 'ing him.

Now, all that said, I do think there's room for improvement.

This game could greatly benefit from more small scale PvP. I think a dueling system is an absolutely necessity. An Arena system would also be fun, but I don't think its quite the must have feature of dueling (though I want both.)

So I guess my final point is: Don't give up. Give ESO PvP a try for a bit longer. Get with an organized group and see how much more fun the big battles are. Do some small group roaming in the quest zones and dungeons. That kind of thing.

Nox_Aeterna

Lowbei wrote: »

Grimnix173 wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

i run with 6 usually and wipe zergs. if you arent having fun in pvp, then you failed, not the game.

Really your group of 6 takes out 20-60 people? Man scrub bashing sounds fun.

My v10 DK would roll you...I know because I haven't ran into a 1v1 that I've lost. So I doubt I'd loose in a 61v6.

I can tell you're a scrub though by your name and your post.

haha looks like i hurt this bads feelings. thats adorable. sounds like your zerg has been rolled by my 6man already by how mad you are.

stop zerging and ill stop farming you

Nah , never been in a zerg that lost to 6 people , so i will keep zerging.

Still , those 6 should have the good sense to run away.

Lowbei

lol

by all means, continue zerging, as you obviously cannot win with 6

no offense, no butthurt please, just calling it like i see it

Grimnix173

Lowbei wrote: »

lol

by all means, continue zerging, as you obviously cannot win with 6

no offense, no butthurt please, just calling it like i see it

Lowbei wrote: »

Grimnix173 wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

i run with 6 usually and wipe zergs. if you arent having fun in pvp, then you failed, not the game.

Really your group of 6 takes out 20-60 people? Man scrub bashing sounds fun.

My v10 DK would roll you...I know because I haven't ran into a 1v1 that I've lost. So I doubt I'd loose in a 61v6.

I can tell you're a scrub though by your name and your post.

haha looks like i hurt this bads feelings. thats adorable. sounds like your zerg has been rolled by my 6man already by how mad you are.

stop zerging and ill stop farming you

Nope never been Aoe'd down.

Lets go man. I'm on AB or Wabba

Arreyanne

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

**SNIP***

Also the fact that you can't win or lose in Cyrodill is pretty meh

I think this is the biggest problem with why people get bored with it.

Warhammer Online, ya craptastic engine, but there was a goal, a light at the end of the rainbow. True you didn't always get to attack the opposing factions city today.

RvR without something to win is just as you said kind of meh after awhile. And I think GW2 has this same problem with WvW.

I liked the Warhammer consequences if you lost your capitol and had to rebuild it through game play to get access to the T4 dungeons again

Lowbei

Grimnix173 wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

lol

by all means, continue zerging, as you obviously cannot win with 6

no offense, no butthurt please, just calling it like i see it

Lowbei wrote: »

Grimnix173 wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

i run with 6 usually and wipe zergs. if you arent having fun in pvp, then you failed, not the game.

Really your group of 6 takes out 20-60 people? Man scrub bashing sounds fun.

My v10 DK would roll you...I know because I haven't ran into a 1v1 that I've lost. So I doubt I'd loose in a 61v6.

I can tell you're a scrub though by your name and your post.

haha looks like i hurt this bads feelings. thats adorable. sounds like your zerg has been rolled by my 6man already by how mad you are.

stop zerging and ill stop farming you

Nope never been Aoe'd down.

Lets go man. I'm on AB or Wabba

we play on both ab and wabba, dc, and have bombed zergs on both, likely your free rp zerg depending the time.

Grimnix173

So...No 1v1?


Lawls.....

Casual....scrub

Lowbei

sorry, when i pvp i 6man and bomb zergs or fight other smallmans, which is what we were discussing. its ok if you got butthurt because you dont have a group that could compete.

thanks for the free rps, please dont cry lol

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

the only "win" is to just get the extra rewards at the end of the 90 days.

Arreyanne wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

**SNIP***

Also the fact that you can't win or lose in Cyrodill is pretty meh

I think this is the biggest problem with why people get bored with it.

Warhammer Online, ya craptastic engine, but there was a goal, a light at the end of the rainbow. True you didn't always get to attack the opposing factions city today.

RvR without something to win is just as you said kind of meh after awhile. And I think GW2 has this same problem with WvW.

I liked the Warhammer consequences if you lost your capitol and had to rebuild it through game play to get access to the T4 dungeons again

Lowbei

if you say so. everyone gets those rewards tho since tier3 is the highest reward tier and that takes like 2 hours to get.

Grimnix173

Lowbei wrote: »

sorry, when i pvp i 6man and bomb zergs or fight other smallmans, which is what we were discussing. its ok if you got butthurt because you dont have a group that could compete.

thanks for the free rps, please dont cry lol

Why do you keep say free rps? You've never killed me...

And you wont fight my v10 Dk 1v1...So I think Im done responding to you.

Lowbei

haha i said i would bomb your scrub free rp zerg, and you got scared and dont wanna fight us, so you wanna 1v1 rofl

its a group game, sorry you got all butthurt over it. thanks for the rps. keep zerging lol

Grimnix173

Why would I be zerging around when I wrote a thread about how zerging sucks. I tell can you're a stupid person.

Lowbei

haha if you werent a zerger, then you wouldnt have got all butthurt over me telling them not to zerg. and you obviously dont have a group to run with or you would have wanted to 6v6 or something.

less butthurt please scrub lol

also your statement of "i tell can you're a stupid person." is absolutely adorable haha

Lowbei

but hey, if the balls ever drop and you find a guild group willing to group you, if then you want to gvg sometime, im sure it can be arranged.

till then, thanks for the rps bro

NordJitsu

NordJitsu wrote: »

I think you're exaggerating how "zergy" the PvP is. I'll admit, if you aren't with an organized group with a TeamSpeak server, you're pretty much just zerging or solo ganking. But if you do get with a good group, things become a lot more fun.

My group ranges any where from 6-24 people with an average of probably 12-15. Sometimes we go participate in the largest fights on the map, but usually just to fulfill our 20 player kill quota for the day. The rest of our PvP is spent on better things.

For example: The other day EP was getting pushed back hard in a two front war. They were struggling to keep Arrius Keep, where one of our scrolls was held. Initially, my group joined up with the zerg fight. But I quickly decided we could be more helpful elsewhere. So we left and rode all the way down into enemy territory. Our goal was castle Faergyl. For those who don't know, the 3rd keep away from the enemies home gates is the linchpin to their entire transit system. My group captured all 3 resources at Faergyl and then started attacking the keep. This had two effects. First, it prevented anyone from using the Transitus links to go reinforce the fight at Arrius. Second, it drew attention to us. A large group of AD came to defend Faergyl and my group was ultimately unsuccessful in taking the keep. However, in the mean time, the pressure was off our EP zerg at Arrius. They ended up winning that fight and going on the offensive for the first time in HOURS.

Most of them probably didn't even know the impact we'd made on their far away fight. But that's the kind of thing that ESO's PvP allows for. Grand strategic thinking, not just mindless zerging, affects the out come of battles. I could give dozens more examples.

Additionally, I think you need to pick a better campaign. On Wabbajack, I find small scale fights all the time. One of my favorite things to do in ESO is the Cyrodil dailies (yes they already have dailies you silly goose.) Run from town to town doing the quests, which reward you gold and XP (useful even at VR10 to level up new skills), and just look for players. You'll find all kinds of fun fights in the dungeons and towns.

The other day, I had an AMAZING fight with a VR10 Sorc. He'd fight for a bit, then Bolt away when his health got low. Since I wasn't in a group situation, I decided I wanted to chase him.

We ended up having a nearly 15 minute fight that took us half way across Cyrodiil. It was an epic war of pitched battles, tense chases, more pitched battles, and finally an epic conclusion (I won.) My only regret was that the "no emotes in combat" system prevented me from /honor 'ing him.

Now, all that said, I do think there's room for improvement.

This game could greatly benefit from more small scale PvP. I think a dueling system is an absolutely necessity. An Arena system would also be fun, but I don't think its quite the must have feature of dueling (though I want both.)

So I guess my final point is: Don't give up. Give ESO PvP a try for a bit longer. Get with an organized group and see how much more fun the big battles are. Do some small group roaming in the quest zones and dungeons. That kind of thing.

WTB OP response.

Lowbei

yeah, a 24 hour lockout, no reward, 4v4 arena for competitive groups, wouldnt distract from cyrodiil at all, and would provide a place for groups to make competition, something that eso lacks.

Grimnix173

Lowbei wrote: »

but hey, if the balls ever drop and you find a guild group willing to group you, if then you want to gvg sometime, im sure it can be arranged.

till then, thanks for the rps bro

My balls have been "dropped" for longer than you've been alive.