Make Bolt Escape cost 20% of the magicka pool.

Niffo

Asava wrote: »

The only skill a light sorc has in melee range is Die. That would have to be addressed. Either they double the DPS of sorcs or double their armor in light armor if you want them to stay in a melee fight. Casted skills would also have to be made instant instead of casted because it's too easy to interrupt a 1.4 second casted spell in melee range. There has to be a trade off on what you want. It also has to be equitable as well. A sorc in melee range should not be instant fodder.

Lightning Form, Bound armour poof! I just turned your light armoured Sorcerer into a heavy armoured Sorcerer. Can you link the skills that give other classes the ability to move instantly avoiding having to traverse the terrain? Sorcerers can't even make up a good defense to their overpowered ability, getting interrupted while casting? Use Immovable, problem solved. Also casting anything with a magicka cost can proc Crystal Fragments which makes that high damage nuke instant cast with half the cost.

Adernath

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

Lightning Form, Bound armour poof! I just turned your light armoured Sorcerer into a heavy armoured Sorcerer. Can you link the skills that give other classes the ability to move instantly avoiding having to traverse the terrain? Sorcerers can't even make up a good defense to their overpowered ability, getting interrupted while casting? Use Immovable, problem solved. Also casting anything with a magicka cost can proc Crystal Fragments which makes that high damage nuke instant cast with half the cost.

I really cant read this QQing anymore...

NordJitsu

https://imgur.com/RHkTuZq

ErilAq

@ jobo: I just showed abilities that each class has that can counter a bolt escape. Dk's also have dragon leap. also, let's look at what you are proposing. so we have a sorc that has slotted bolt escape, immovable, lightning form, and bound armor. that's 4 slots of 10 taken. now assuming the sorc isn't running a morph of magelight (one or the other is kinda a must) he has 6 slots open, but only one on his main weapon ability bar.
Ergo, he has one damaging ability without switching to his secondary, which takes time. time to stun him, root him, beat on him, etc. those seconds are a big deal in pvp. So the sorc you described is built entirely around running away (not op, since he can't feasibly hurt you).Or, you have a sorc built around damage, which can't be the defensive powerhouse you make him out to be. (switching weapons nullifies your buffs unless they are on both bars)

Please, explain how that is in any way overpowered.

Glurin

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

Asava wrote: »

The only skill a light sorc has in melee range is Die. That would have to be addressed. Either they double the DPS of sorcs or double their armor in light armor if you want them to stay in a melee fight. Casted skills would also have to be made instant instead of casted because it's too easy to interrupt a 1.4 second casted spell in melee range. There has to be a trade off on what you want. It also has to be equitable as well. A sorc in melee range should not be instant fodder.

Lightning Form, Bound armour poof! I just turned your light armoured Sorcerer into a heavy armoured Sorcerer. Can you link the skills that give other classes the ability to move instantly avoiding having to traverse the terrain? Sorcerers can't even make up a good defense to their overpowered ability, getting interrupted while casting? Use Immovable, problem solved. Also casting anything with a magicka cost can proc Crystal Fragments which makes that high damage nuke instant cast with half the cost.

Right so, Lightning Form, Bound Armor, Immovable, Bolt Escape.

So they have room for one offensive skill, which if it's the nuke has a long cast time. Unless of course it's the Crystal Fragments morph, in which case it has a 35% chance of becoming instant cast when using an ability that uses magicka. Oh, and their ultimate of course, which must be charged up before it can be used.

So you've just created a sorcerer that can run away really, really good, but hits like a wet noodle. Congratulations.

Niffo

Adernath wrote: »

I really cant read this QQing anymore...

You don't have to, whether you read it or not won't change Bolt Escape getting nerfed.

jeradlub17_ESO

Mykah wrote: »

For the other three classes I think there is a good balance between stamina and mana. The problem with bolt escape is that a sorc has a full stamina bar for breaking cc and dodging, and an entire mana bar for bolt escape which is its own kind of avoidance against melee attacks its first cast, a full avoidance from range attacks on its third cast.

Also note, a NB Templar or DK can dodge roll three times to avoid damage and their done, where as a sorc can dodge roll three times AND bolt escape upwards of ten times on the high end characters. The amount of damage avoidance provided by this is just uncomparible to other classes.

The best solution to this imbalance is to make bolt escape cost a flat 20% of mana to cast, bringing its damage avoidance to resource pool effectiveness in line with the other three classes.

Even with this nerf a sorc could bolt five times, eight times using set bonuses and a single mana pot while still having 50% stamina left after breaking a CC.

This change would also mean a tanky sorc using heavy armor would have the same escape utility as a full mana sorc, the irony being currently a mana canon sorc as more survivability than a tank sorc simply due to bolt escape spam.

Horrible idea. All mad cause it is working as intended. I tell you what they can do your change when they also make shield blocking that dks walk around with constantly held up to avoid all damage also cost 20% a tick and also make all the NB insta vanishing in the middle of fights cost 20% and all the full bar self heals people pop cost 20%. I see other players spamming all their avoids like nuts but you say nothing about evening those out. You guys cry about someone getting away and ignore all the op abilities everyone else has that is the reason they are doing it.

dahl.lucas_ESO

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

I really cant read this QQing anymore...

You don't have to, whether you read it or not won't change Bolt Escape getting nerfed.

If your so sure about it then why are you still crying over it?

ErilAq

there's nothing on the patch notes about bolt escape getting nerfed. I have a feeling the developers know that most people crying for a nerf are like chicken little crying the sky is falling. They cause a big scene, some panic, and then everyone realizes it's an acorn and go about their merry way.

Niffo

ErilAq wrote: »

@ jobo: I just showed abilities that each class has that can counter a bolt escape. Dk's also have dragon leap. also, let's look at what you are proposing. so we have a sorc that has slotted bolt escape, immovable, lightning form, and bound armor. that's 4 slots of 10 taken. now assuming the sorc isn't running a morph of magelight (one or the other is kinda a must) he has 6 slots open, but only one on his main weapon ability bar.
Ergo, he has one damaging ability without switching to his secondary, which takes time. time to stun him, root him, beat on him, etc. those seconds are a big deal in pvp. So the sorc you described is built entirely around running away (not op, since he can't feasibly hurt you).Or, you have a sorc built around damage, which can't be the defensive powerhouse you make him out to be. (switching weapons nullifies your buffs unless they are on both bars)

Please, explain how that is in any way overpowered.

You make it seem like the Sorcerer running away will never return to the fight. They can easily heal up and come in at a better opportunity. This is the equivalent to other games where one class had stealth and could just reset fight to try again as often as they wanted.

Everything that is listed to counter Bolt Escape can either be countered by the basic defense abilities all classes get or just by Bolt Escaping again.

You don't even need to take all of those abilities, Bound Aegis on its own doubles your armour rating in light, you could take Immovable only and still have plenty of space while increasing your survivability. Sorcerers don't need 10 active abilities and 2 ultimates to be offensive power houses.

jeradlub17_ESO

ErilAq wrote: »

there's nothing on the patch notes about bolt escape getting nerfed. I have a feeling the developers know that most people crying for a nerf are like chicken little crying the sky is falling. They cause a big scene, some panic, and then everyone realizes it's an acorn and go about their merry way.

It's just kids crying cause they didn't get to kill someone. And they also fail to realize if anyone happens to catch the sorc at the other end of his escape he is mana depleted and dead to whoever jumps him. It takes everything to really get out of getting caught range so there is no increasing the cost.

The ONLY thing they need to address is the hackers that are cheating escaping forever. I've been in fights with other sorc's where we both cast the same number of offensive spells and I dropped a potion chasing them and they teleport away 15 times, literally, out of sight. If I can't do that dropping a pot I know they hacked and I've reported the websites I found searching that are providing these hacks to them in hopes ESO can stop them.

Niffo

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

It's just kids crying cause they didn't get to kill someone. And they also fail to realize if anyone happens to catch the sorc at the other end of his escape he is mana depleted and dead to whoever jumps him. It takes everything to really get out of getting caught range so there is no increasing the cost.

The ONLY thing they need to address is the hackers that are cheating escaping forever. I've been in fights with other sorc's where we both cast the same number of offensive spells and I dropped a potion chasing them and they teleport away 15 times, literally, out of sight. If I can't do that dropping a pot I know they hacked and I've reported the websites I found searching that are providing these hacks to them in hopes ESO can stop them.

This isn't about not getting the kill, you guys can think that if you want. Its about one class being able to escape while the others have to die, Sorcerers can disengage and then re-engage no one can do that no matter what they put on their bar. And you've even seen people Bolt Escaping away and instead chose to write it off as cheating.

Nooblet

The only non-finisher a light armor sorc has that is worth a damn in pvp is crystal fragments. And you can block or roll dodge out of the way.. Why are you dying to sorcs?

BrassRazoo

Harakh wrote: »

So why do you need Bolt Escape Spam in PvE?

And why are you read the PvP Forum if you never want to go in PvP?

@‌ Topic

Way to hard nerf i say, they only need to fix that bolt escape breaking root, teleport strike from the NB is not able to teleport in root so should bolt escape be. Easy fix in my book.

If I want to use my skill to Escape a Mob in a Public Dungeon or elsewhere yes.

I read the PvP forum because you are suggesting changes to my main character, Sorcerer.

Honestly PvP players really need to pull their heads in with all this nerf that and OP this.

You do know that more people probably play PvE than PvP in this game don't you, as is generally the case in a lot of MMOs.

jeradlub17_ESO

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

This isn't about not getting the kill, you guys can think that if you want. Its about one class being able to escape while the others have to die, Sorcerers can disengage and then re-engage no one can do that no matter what they put on their bar. And you've even seen people Bolt Escaping away and instead chose to write it off as cheating.

It 100% is about not getting the kill. You say nothing about why they are escaping to begin with. You think maybe it might be because other classes have some op abilities like being able to heal themselves nearly infinitely? Or can perm stun kill with bash and rush? Claw spam? Banner spam? Think maybe those might need to be fixed or are you putting the blinders on for those? Do you not comprehend that BE is designed to get out of a losing situation to survive?

The one and only BE that needs fixed is the hack and it is cheating. It is not the normal BE. I'm a sorc and can do everything they can do dropping potions at the same time as well. Under normal conditions there is no way they can outrun me. Because you are uneducated about it does not invalidate my statement.

Niffo

Nooblet wrote: »

The only non-finisher a light armor sorc has that is worth a damn in pvp is crystal fragments. And you can block or roll dodge out of the way.. Why are you dying to sorcs?

What else do they need? Crystal Fragments isn't some trash skill, its the best ranged DD out of all the classes.

ErilAq

what people don't realize is that...... you can let the running sorc go. Let's say the sorc runs away. He can come back!!!! you say. you can go the opposite direction. he'll never catch you. He'll bolt to me!!! you say. He'll have low magicka and no regen. If the sorc runs, he has to work double time to catch up to you (if you play smart) and yes, crystal frags are nice, but they can be blocked, and it uses quite a bit of mana. (the insta cast can prock from bolt escape, but if the sorc is using it in excess like you say, he'll only have enough mana for 1 crystal frag proc)

Everything people complain about Bolt escape is a l2p issue. every class has a counter for it. every class can walk away and the sorc will NOT be able to catch up without severely gimping himself. I have yet to hear a legitimate issue with bolt escape.

Niffo

ErilAq wrote: »

what people don't realize is that...... you can let the running sorc go. Let's say the sorc runs away. He can come back!!!! you say. you can go the opposite direction. he'll never catch you. He'll bolt to me!!! you say. He'll have low magicka and no regen. If the sorc runs, he has to work double time to catch up to you (if you play smart) and yes, crystal frags are nice, but they can be blocked, and it uses quite a bit of mana. (the insta cast can prock from bolt escape, but if the sorc is using it in excess like you say, he'll only have enough mana for 1 crystal frag proc)

Everything people complain about Bolt escape is a l2p issue. every class has a counter for it. every class can walk away and the sorc will NOT be able to catch up without severely gimping himself. I have yet to hear a legitimate issue with bolt escape.

If you have yet to hear a legitimate complaints its probably because you're a Sorcerer and you're ignoring them. Bolt Escape is faster than running, they can and will catch up to you before they're out of magicka, and if they see you turning whats to stop them from going after you right then? That isn't a counter to anything, because those options are also available to the Sorcerer so you're not doing anything they can't.

ErilAq

Let me be clear on this: casting bolt escape reduces magicka regen, and costs around 20% of the sorcerers magicka. Ergo, if he casts 4 times to get away from you, he wasted 80% of his magicka, and has 0 magicka regen. tell me, how will he catch up to you? and since bolt escape is only in the direction you're facing, how will he "see" you running away from him if he's running from you? Also, there are these things called horses. they tend to move you quickly. I'm not saying bolt escape is not an annoyance, but it's hardly OP. While we're at the topic, every class has an offensive gap closer that has longer range than a sorcs bolt escape, does waaay more damage, and more than likely stuns or knocks down the sorc. annoyance =!= op.

Niffo

ErilAq wrote: »

Let me be clear on this: casting bolt escape reduces magicka regen, and costs around 20% of the sorcerers magicka. Ergo, if he casts 4 times to get away from you, he wasted 80% of his magicka, and has 0 magicka regen. tell me, how will he catch up to you? and since bolt escape is only in the direction you're facing, how will he "see" you running away from him if he's running from you? Also, there are these things called horses. they tend to move you quickly. I'm not saying bolt escape is not an annoyance, but it's hardly OP. While we're at the topic, every class has an offensive gap closer that has longer range than a sorcs bolt escape, does waaay more damage, and more than likely stuns or knocks down the sorc. annoyance =!= op.

If Bolt Escape is reducing magicka recovery it isn't doing a very good job of it since casts of it does not hinder a Sorcerer in anyway. Sorcerers can use horses too. You can rotate the camera around by holding middle mouse button down.

Glurin

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

jeradlub17_ESO wrote: »

It's just kids crying cause they didn't get to kill someone. And they also fail to realize if anyone happens to catch the sorc at the other end of his escape he is mana depleted and dead to whoever jumps him. It takes everything to really get out of getting caught range so there is no increasing the cost.

The ONLY thing they need to address is the hackers that are cheating escaping forever. I've been in fights with other sorc's where we both cast the same number of offensive spells and I dropped a potion chasing them and they teleport away 15 times, literally, out of sight. If I can't do that dropping a pot I know they hacked and I've reported the websites I found searching that are providing these hacks to them in hopes ESO can stop them.

This isn't about not getting the kill, you guys can think that if you want. Its about one class being able to escape while the others have to die, Sorcerers can disengage and then re-engage no one can do that no matter what they put on their bar. And you've even seen people Bolt Escaping away and instead chose to write it off as cheating.

Right. Not like a Nightblade can turn invisible and/or run 50% faster or anyone with a bow could run faster or a Dragon Knight root/stun you and take off or a Templar could do the same or knock you back or...

Hey, wait a minute here. Yes they can all do that. Wow! What an amazing revelation! Sorcerers aren't the only ones who can run away!

Although, they are the only ones who do it with flashy special effects. Is that what your problem is? You're jealous that they can run away in style?

Asava

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

Nooblet wrote: »

The only non-finisher a light armor sorc has that is worth a damn in pvp is crystal fragments. And you can block or roll dodge out of the way.. Why are you dying to sorcs?

What else do they need? Crystal Fragments isn't some trash skill, its the best ranged DD out of all the classes.

Ya, it's great that it's casting notifies anyone paying attention to block or interrupt the sorc casting it, or they can wait until it's cast then roll out of it. Any intelligent person that sees a sorc casting it will interrupt them. They only have 1.3 or so seconds to hit an insta. It hits hard if someone's not paying attention. It's no wonder that you think it's such a great skill. We've all suffered thru your ranting in multiple anti-sorcerer posts.

Kingslayer

The scoreboards say it all to, Its not dominated by sorcs thats for sure.

Niffo

Glurin wrote: »

Right. Not like a Nightblade can turn invisible and/or run 50% faster or anyone with a bow could run faster or a Dragon Knight root/stun you and take off or a Templar could do the same or knock you back or...

Hey, wait a minute here. Yes they can all do that. Wow! What an amazing revelation! Sorcerers aren't the only ones who can run away!

Although, they are the only ones who do it with flashy special effects. Is that what your problem is? You're jealous that they can run away in style?

Damage brings you out of stealth, Path of Darkness is countered by snaring the Nightblade. Root lasts 4 seconds, and Dragonkights don't need to run from anything. Templars can stun you once every 7 seconds. So should there be a 7 debuff on Bolt Escape that keeps you from using it? or maybe being snared reducing the range you port? Or how about taking damage prevents you from casting Bolt Escape?

ErilAq

right, but if a sorc uses a horse 45m away from you, the probability is he's going to stay 45m away from you (given the horses are the same speed) and the reduction does a very good job. if they pop dark exchange then they can get health magicka back, but that's a channeled cast that can be easily interrupted and or gives you plenty of time to regain your health/stam/magicka, or.... just go in another direction. I'm sorry, but I don't see Bolt escape as OP, since all classes have a gap closer with better range, or you can simply let the little bugger go. It's all about the kills to the nerfers. if the sorc runs, you win you don't need a shiny badge every time

Niffo

Asava wrote: »

Ya, it's great that it's casting notifies anyone paying attention to block or interrupt the sorc casting it, or they can wait until it's cast then roll out of it. Any intelligent person that sees a sorc casting it will interrupt them. They only have 1.3 or so seconds to hit an insta. It hits hard if someone's not paying attention. It's no wonder that you think it's such a great skill. We've all suffered thru your ranting in multiple any-sorcerer posts.

If you're suffereing why do you keep coming back? Is someone forcing you to read the posts?

Glurin

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Right. Not like a Nightblade can turn invisible and/or run 50% faster or anyone with a bow could run faster or a Dragon Knight root/stun you and take off or a Templar could do the same or knock you back or...

Hey, wait a minute here. Yes they can all do that. Wow! What an amazing revelation! Sorcerers aren't the only ones who can run away!

Although, they are the only ones who do it with flashy special effects. Is that what your problem is? You're jealous that they can run away in style?

Damage brings you out of stealth, Path of Darkness is countered by snaring the Nightblade. Root lasts 4 seconds, and Dragonkights don't need to run from anything. Templars can stun you once every 7 seconds. So should there be a 7 debuff on Bolt Escape that keeps you from using it? or maybe being snared reducing the range you port? Or how about taking damage prevents you from casting Bolt Escape?

Bolt Escape can't be cast while stunned or rooted and does not make you immune to crowd control, although it DOES make THEM immune to it's stun for a time if you hit them with it and the stun can in fact be blocked.

You can stop pretending BE is some kind of godlike "I win" button ability any time now. You're quite clearly wrong and suffering from a l2p issue at this point.

Mykah

ErilAq wrote: »

Let me be clear on this: casting bolt escape reduces magicka regen, and costs around 20% of the sorcerers magicka. Ergo, if he casts 4 times to get away from you, he wasted 80% of his magicka, and has 0 magicka regen. tell me, how will he catch up to you? and since bolt escape is only in the direction you're facing, how will he "see" you running away from him if he's running from you?.

I agree with this point entirely with the exception of a geared vr10 sorc.

Most low and mid power sorcs spend 20% of their mana for bolt escape, in this case BE is not overpowered but is working as intended. It only becomes overpowered when a sorc is vr10 geared and cast BE over 10 times before even being low on mana. This allows them to use BE not only as an escape tool, but as an escape re-engage kite and CC tool that can be spammed.

Changing BE to a 20% mana cost would put vr10 sorcs in line while still maintaining its effectivness for non max level sorcs who are already spending around 20% mana to cast it.

Again I'd like to emphasis, I have no issue with a sorc using BE to escape being killed. The issue is with vr10 sorcs being able to re-engage and chase using BE with very little mana cost. A 20% mana cost would negate this for high end sorcs while still being excellent utility for all level of sorcs to escape a death.

Niffo

Glurin wrote: »

Bolt Escape can't be cast while stunned or rooted and does not make you immune to crowd control, although it DOES make THEM immune to it's stun for a time if you hit them with it and the stun can in fact be blocked.

You can stop pretending BE is some kind of godlike "I win" button ability any time now. You're quite clearly wrong and suffering from a l2p issue at this point.

Bolt Escape can be cast while immobilized, have you actually used it while rooted? I've seen Sorcerers Bolt Escaping with talons around their legs. You don't even know how your own class abilities work. Also I never said anything being able to use Bolt Escape while stunned or that it gave immunity to CC.

ErilAq

see, the only issue I have, is when a sorc is v10 and uses bolt escape more than 5 times, he's geared for bolt escape and has severely gimped his dps in exchange. You want to stack crit, and crit damage done so your critical charge can proc, but you can't if you're slotting magicka regen and magicka base. You basically get to choose between defensive sorc, or offensive sorc. (this is not including the sorcs that abuse BE with the bugs or exploits.)