Turtle Wars begins, Dawnbreaker EU

Taonnor · May 2014

Red starts today with 30-40 peoples, running as large turtle with emperor inside. They raided hole map red. The turtle ported between keeps and stand against 2 other alliances at same time.

They used massive broken skills (negation, stacking barrier, DK, etc.). They run into 4 oils and killed all peoples in ~1-2s. They loosed no hp, because stacked barrier (alliance skill ~1200 dmg shield on group, can multiple stack).

Im so tired against these 1 button zerging...

PLS stop that turtling Zenimax!!

I dont want GW 2.5

RaZaddha · May 2014

Wow, can you please record it? I want a reason to point and laugh at a stupid RvR system, plus some people still believe AoE caps won't start turtle wars.

Niffo · May 2014

Taonnor wrote: »

Red starts today with 30-40 peoples, running as large turtle with emperor inside. They raided hole map red. The turtle ported between keeps and stand against 2 other alliances at same time.

They used massive broken skills (negation, stacking barrier, DK, etc.). They run into 4 oils and killed all peoples in ~1-2s. They loosed no hp, because stacked barrier (alliance skill ~1200 dmg shield on group, can multiple stack).

Im so tired against these 1 button zerging...

PLS stop that turtling Zenimax!!

I dont want GW 2.5

Didn't take long after people found out AoE had caps. Good thing Zenimax made a subscription based Guild Wars 2, should work out really well.

Dudis · May 2014

Saw an AD zerg-ball on Auriels Bow today.

We did alright vs them tbh, trying to split them up with roots and Volcanic Runes. We eventually lost since well, we weren't very organized and they were (sort of).

God I'm glad I'm not the kind of person who enjoys sieges.

NekOnOkO · May 2014

4 oils can't kill an organized raid even without barrier stacking. Just FYI.

Tanabe · May 2014

this is why aoe caps are so bad

Pycckuu · May 2014

Dudis wrote: »

We eventually lost since well, we weren't very organized and they were.

T H I S ! ! ! ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RinstraD · May 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSjxiu4UpMc

Taonnor · May 2014

NekOnOkO wrote: »

4 oils can't kill an organized raid even without barrier stacking. Just FYI.

Our plan was to fight them bottom on flag, while oils on them. We had 4 oils on door and multiple oils on other places. The problem was we had no realy cc to counter their turtle and stuck them in oils. The turtle runs inside us and we as instant dead. CC's not hit. Dmg of 4 oils did nothing to them too. We killed no one of them and we was around 30 deffers against that turtle.

In my eyes the stacked barrier was the problem. They run into us with multiple stacked 1200 dmg shields, so that they have more than 10k hp.

We had 3-4 additional fights on field against them with ~50 peoples. We tried different tactics, but nothing helped. The turtle was unbeatable. All what they did was destro staff bomb, DK ulti + negation field and all of us was in 1-2s dead. Give us one good aoe CC with no cap like mezz in DAoC and we had a little chance to kill them.

This evening was the first time where i frustrated logged out because of PvP. I got no problem with loosing against better groups, but this... No words...

I saw me! Thx to see your vision of this day. The story i telled of keep def was not in this vid.

RinstraD wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSjxiu4UpMc

RaZaddha · May 2014

RinstraD wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSjxiu4UpMc

/point
/laugh
"Spiritual successor" of DAoC my ass...

Taonnor · May 2014

One question to this video. We all was in sneak in some situations. WHY the hell they see us ALL on max range!? Cheat?!

Dudis · May 2014

Taonnor wrote: »

One question to this video. We all was in sneak in some situations. WHY the hell they see us ALL on max range!? Cheat?!

Wild guess... Detection Pots?

sosci0707eb17_ESO · May 2014

Taonnor wrote: »

One question to this video. We all was in sneak in some situations. WHY the hell they see us ALL on max range!? Cheat?!

Its are PUGs Detected!

Harakh · May 2014

Tripple the cost of AOEs and the fights will be fine

nolleo · May 2014

Taonnor wrote: »

One question to this video. We all was in sneak in some situations. WHY the hell they see us ALL on max range!? Cheat?!

we don`t use cheats. ever. and we also avoid exploits of any kind if they are proven to be so.

ElSlayer · May 2014

Harakh wrote: »

Tripple the cost of AOEs and the fights will be fine

PvE'ers will drown you in their tears.

Kililin · May 2014

lol@aoe Caps

The only thing diverting from zerg tactics is MASS CC and AoE without caps.

isengrimb16_ESO · May 2014

So where's the Turtle Destruction Wave when you need it?

Kame-hame-BLEAH!

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO · May 2014

This change is good

the RvR population dropped quite noticeably and soon there wont be enough people for the aoe caps to count.

RvR is ruined, thankfully there's plenty of poorly designed pve content and soooo soooooo sooooooo many endgame alternatives..not...gg ZoS

ElSlayer · May 2014

Kililin wrote: »

lol@aoe Caps

The only thing diverting from zerg tactics is MASS CC and AoE without caps.

Zerg pays more subscription fee than so called "small organized groups".
Fat chance.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO · May 2014

ElSlayer wrote: »

Kililin wrote: »

lol@aoe Caps

The only thing diverting from zerg tactics is MASS CC and AoE without caps.

Zerg pays more subscription fee than so called "small organized groups".
Fat chance.

And an zerg who has noone to fight against but the empty keeps will be a happy zerg right?

ElSlayer · May 2014

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

And an zerg who has noone to fight against but the empty keeps will be a happy zerg right?

I don't see how you could make such conclusion from my statement.

In your statement you suggest that one alliance have only zerg and other alliance have only "small organized groups". From my gaming experience I assume that you are wrong, good sir.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO · May 2014

ElSlayer wrote: »

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO wrote: »

And an zerg who has noone to fight against but the empty keeps will be a happy zerg right?

I don't see how you could make such conclusion from my statement.

In your statement you suggest that one alliance have only zerg and other alliance have only "small organized groups". From my gaming experience I assume that you are wrong, good sir.

Indeed i am if you look at it this way. What i am trying to point out is that as the game ages, people will adapt and learn to not stray from the zerg, this will lower the number of kills for the small teams and viceversa, get less kills for the big groups since small teams will avoid them at all costs and capture resources or whatever they can do. Turtling up is such a basic tactic that even pugs will manage to pull it off given enough time to learn.

Now you will ocasionaly get a big zerg vs a big zerg lagfest fight where you have no idea if your skills are hitting and you facesmash your keyboard in hopes of victory and ofc, there will always be few soloers and smallscale groups if you're persistent enough but those are not affected by the aoe cap.

Ignoring the huge lag and server limitations, lets assume it would go smoothly. From your gaming experience do you reckon any zergfest being considered as "fun"?

Edit: Also would have rather have sicronized multiple fighting fronts going back and forth or a huge zerg ball on both sides laying whaste to everything in their path?

Kililin · May 2014

ElSlayer wrote: »

Kililin wrote: »

lol@aoe Caps

The only thing diverting from zerg tactics is MASS CC and AoE without caps.

Zerg pays more subscription fee than so called "small organized groups".
Fat chance.

You are right, but imo it is short sighted.
Off 2 zergs, with this setup (stack&spam) there will alway be 1 winner, the bigger zerg.
The smaller one will quit or change campaign.

The gameplay for either a member of the bigger or the smaller zerg is less thrilling than watching paint dry, so the whole AvA game will not bring in much in terms of sub fees.

Taonnor · May 2014

nolleo wrote: »

Taonnor wrote: »

One question to this video. We all was in sneak in some situations. WHY the hell they see us ALL on max range!? Cheat?!

we don`t use cheats. ever. and we also avoid exploits of any kind if they are proven to be so.

So explain me. How can it be that you see our complete raid groups on clipping range. The raid was completly in sneak. How can it be?

For example on 1:53 on your video you see us on large range. All of us was in sneak. How can it be? Detection potions? On this range?!

Next. You said you avoid exploits. The NB in this video got 2930 HP. In most fights i see the little orange bar on hp bar. The orange bar was all fights near the full HP bar. So he got 2-3k dmg shield!

You stacked barrier...
You used DK ultis or negation field...
Many of you was before latest Patch a Vamp with AOE bats...

For me is consciously using of broken skills, exploiting. Please explain! We use this skills too, but please do not say you avoid exploits!

In my opinion is this video and thread a result of Zenimax AOE cap politics. We will in future see more and more turtles. Turtling is no fun for me and some other players.

I hope realy Zenimax will do some balancing issues to break Turtles on field and keep, because i love this game and their small scaling PvP.

Fanfaron · May 2014

Hello.
Read this http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/90296/vampire-abuse-zadrots-zds-guild-statement?new=1 please, before claim on us about vamps.
As one of my guild member said, we never use cheat/exploit and you can see no one dk's standart on this video (we try to play with out it this evening).
As for other ulties, you can also use it and we die sometimes to wellplaced negate as all did, it's fair i think. And before this evening, we never use multiple bariers, coz our dk was with standarts. we have 1 horn man + 1 barrier man.

As for detection, seems, that repeteance bugged and shows green rays on live ppl, if their corpces was used by our templars. I really dunno, why it's happen.

As for "testudo", we play like it at gw2, and same tactic works here.
We always run 16-30(mostly 22-24) ppl, we never interested to stack whole our map in one place and we love to fights against whole enemy map (if we can use skill due to no lag, ofc).

Sorry for bad english.

Taonnor · May 2014

Fanfaron wrote: »

Hello.
Read this ...

This discussion is a never ending story. I think we should stop this on this point.

Other question. What should Zenimax in your eyes do, that a smaller amount of players can stop you as turtle?

Fanfaron · May 2014

Dunno, if they change something in current game mechanic, we will adapt.
Smaller group can stop us now, if they will strike 1st with their ulties up, from back/flank, or when we busy on siege.
Equal group can beat us head-to-head, due to better gear/skill timing, ult management.

chrisub17_ESO104 · May 2014

Good to see guilds not stuck in the FOTM talons/standard strat for everything. Looking forward to seeing more.

In regards to the OP and turtling in general. Aoe mechanics in this game are very different from GW2. Outside of some specific things like barrier stacking, which I think will get fixed, there are more negatives to stacking then benefits.

As to the strat being used in this video, hard to say off the top of my head what would work best. Immovable is really expensive, I would probably use movement to force them to run out of stamina then range them with tons of volcanic runes/caltrops and ranged knockback/dps. Immovable cannot be kept up indefinitely.

The core to most counters will always be understanding what your opponent is doing,and then using movement and timing to catch them while they are weak, and conserving your resources so you can overwhelm them at that point.

Ser Lobo · May 2014

Screw AOE caps. I want to see player hitbox collision detection.

Both will lag the servers. One will allow ten guys with shields to block a doorway, the other will allow players to use more AOE. I like the 10 guys with shields options.

TheGrandAlliance · May 2014

RaZaddha wrote: »

Wow, can you please record it? I want a reason to point and laugh at a stupid RvR system, plus some people still believe AoE caps won't start turtle wars.

This is my PvP server... and Me is one that you speak.

THE OIL EFFECTS HAVE NO EFFECT VRS VETS! THIS HAS BEEN IN THE GAME FROM THE BEGINNING! In fact without AoE cap limits to be in place healing would be even more OP. Blue used to do this on this server as well: Stack up and charge right in past oils.

This has nothing to do with turtling. My faction has "figured out" that using destro/restro staff and DK/templars can steamroll everything. It has nothing to do with turtling. They could do it with less players in theory but EP is always high in pop. What you are seeing is simply "an exploit of game mechanics"... nothing to do with AoE cap limits.