The bash nerf, unintended consequences

Xnemesis

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Ok seems they are still experimenting and trying to figure out things. Not the first time I've seen somewhere that when something is nerfed it's done the worst possible way basically destroying the class as whole.

Well it is in PTS now so hopefully they listen to some feedback and change it before it gets to the rest of us. I'm fine with damage reductions or cost up. Cooldown is just plain stupid.

lol

there is a 3000+ person poll asking for AoE caps not to be put in..

At this point if you think they're going to listen to the players you've got far to much faith in them.

AoE caps have always been in game bud. Some abilities just weren't following the rules so now its fixed. Also bash would be fine with a 1 sec CD and a damage reduction as well as make it cost as much as much stam as a roll does

Xnemesis

brandondickenson_ESO wrote: »

I'm a bash spamming DK... and I think it's an ok start. I leveled the whole way out dpsing everyone spamming bash... so it's not just a pvp fix. In PvP I honestly do dominate with bash.

The truth is, right now the best thing to do is to just spam it... it's so efficient. With the 3 sec CD it makes it *attack, ability, bash, attack, ability, bash*... That works imo.

You and every other DK do the standard then Bash dance lol

awkwarrd

Draconiuos wrote: »

Please show me where they said there would never be AOE caps, since they have been in the game since day 1.

Haha really?

A game becoming notorious for it's lack of information and communication, and you want details?
You won't ever get them, your post is a trick/rhetorical.

For evidence of this you can just go and look at the patch notes.
Where instead of actual details and values of anything and everything they tweak, they will use vague words like "significant" instead.

Teevesnacks

Just nerf the damage, bash is meant to be an interrupt, this will hurt VR content when engaging groups of 3 mobs where there are more than 1 caster, I basically chain bashes to stop these guys from stomping me as a melee

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

OMG stop to cry and read this post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

seriously.... are you blind guys or WTF is happening with you?

driosketch wrote: »

Just got back from testing it on the PTS. The premise of this thread is wrong. There is NO cool down to the right click left click bash/interrupt. There is also no cool down for the 1h+sh skill either if anyone is wondering. I can still spam both on enemies without delay.

OP, who exactly did you hear this rumor from?

Sorry to tag the entire thread, I like to squash these before they get out of hand.
@thelg @jobo11b16_ESO @Hodorius @liquid_wolf @xsorusb14_ESO @Kypho @Najarati @Kewljag_66_ESO @7788b14_ESO @cubansyrusb16_ESO @KoooZ @grabbintrionb14_ESO @cubansyrusb16_ESO @kirnmalidus @ChairGraveyard @Syntse @Sempars @Aedh @moXrox @Drachenfier @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO @Loxy37 @Drachenfier @Maverick827 @Draconiuos @beravinprb19_ESO @awkwarrd @NombreDeLaBeast @Kililin @jparrillab16_ESO @brandondickenson_ESO @e.gamemarkb14_ESO @lao

And yes, the best solution to balance shield bash is reduce the output damage to half.

Ghenra

I can't believe how there're lamer defenders of bash. Maybe the best solution is reduce its damage a 50-60% but implementing a cd of 3s is not bad at all, this makes the game more skilled because then, people only will use bash for interrupt casters not for farm all Tamriel without sense.

PD: there're players who reached emperor rank bashing all the face of players on Cirodiil, nice skilled game guys!! Pathetic...

kirnmalidus

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

I can't believe how there're lamer defenders of bash. Maybe the best solution is reduce its damage a 50-60% but implementing a cd of 3s is not bad at all, this makes the game more skilled because then, people only will use bash for interrupt casters not for farm all Tamriel without sense.

Right? How is a 3s "cooldown" or animation timer any different than me firing my bow or swinging a blade having a slight delay based on the animation? Treat bash like any other weapon attack.

Kaskako

Fix it so it doesn't break animations and reduce it's damage, perhaps make it have an increased cost with consecutive uses, but a cooldown? Thats just a really bad change.

Malmai

Remove stamina than if you nerfed block there is no point than.

limeli8

Bash needs a cooldown but not 3 sec 1-2 sec would be fine. Reason for this is that in mass pvp when you have like 2-3+ bashers on you you can't cast anything not even insta cast spells or even use ultimate lol or drink a dam potion (yeah even drinking a pot gets interrupted)

Gaudrath

driosketch wrote: »

Just got back from testing it on the PTS. The premise of this thread is wrong. There is NO cool down to the right click left click bash/interrupt. There is also no cool down for the 1h+sh skill either if anyone is wondering. I can still spam both on enemies without delay.

OP, who exactly did you hear this rumor from?

Sorry to tag the entire thread, I like to squash these before they get out of hand.
@thelg @jobo11b16_ESO @Hodorius @liquid_wolf @xsorusb14_ESO @Kypho @Najarati @Kewljag_66_ESO @7788b14_ESO @cubansyrusb16_ESO @KoooZ @grabbintrionb14_ESO @cubansyrusb16_ESO @kirnmalidus @ChairGraveyard @Syntse @Sempars @Aedh @moXrox @Drachenfier @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO @Loxy37 @Drachenfier @Maverick827 @Draconiuos @beravinprb19_ESO @awkwarrd @NombreDeLaBeast @Kililin @jparrillab16_ESO @brandondickenson_ESO @e.gamemarkb14_ESO @lao

Quoting this because apparently some people are still arguing about cooldowns.

KoooZ

kirnmalidus wrote: »

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

I can't believe how there're lamer defenders of bash. Maybe the best solution is reduce its damage a 50-60% but implementing a cd of 3s is not bad at all, this makes the game more skilled because then, people only will use bash for interrupt casters not for farm all Tamriel without sense.

Right? How is a 3s "cooldown" or animation timer any different than me firing my bow or swinging a blade having a slight delay based on the animation? Treat bash like any other weapon attack.

A cool down means for bash and only bash, not a longer animation but time when you can do other things but not bash. No cooldowns exist in this game, its a fundamental of the way everything works. Bash needs fixing but a cool down would make no sense.

Its a moot point though, this turned out to be false.

monkeymystic

3 sec cd on bash is one of the most idiotic changes zenimax has done so far... dont know how much longer this game is worth paying for with OP skills like escape bolt being around, while they destroy combat mechanics and give delay on everything.

ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE JUST CHANGED NAME INTO: ELDER SORCERORS ONLINE yaaaaay. not.

driosketch

monkeymystic wrote: »

.

Face palm...

@monkeymystic I hope this post was ironic. In case it's not, I'm not even going to quote the text so you can freely edit if you chose to read the rest of the thread.

Sadae

I use a 1H & Shield, and would okay with this if not for one thing. People are forgetting the initial purpose of bash: to interrupt spells. So here's my problem. I find I always need to bash TWICE in order to actually interrupt a spell caster. And with a 3 second delay that's going to make bash's primary purpose broken unless they fix it so that ONE bash actually does an interrupt.

Mykah

There is no cooldown on bash being added.
They fixed the mechanics so you cant override bash animation immedietly with another bash, meaning you can't spam bash every .5 seconds with animation canceling, you can spam it every second with the full animation playing, the same way light attacks work currently. The amount of time it takes to bash and then light attack will be the same amount of time it takes to bash twice.
You can still ability weave and cancel into bash. You can still interrupt everyone one of your targets cast bars as there are no casts in game with less than a 1 second cast time.
Its actually a pretty intelligent fix to the shield spam issue, so props to ZoS.
/thread

JosephChip

I heard op is talking ***.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

Mykah wrote: »

There is no cooldown on bash being added.
They fixed the mechanics so you cant override bash animation immedietly with another bash, meaning you can't spam bash every .5 seconds with animation canceling, you can spam it every second with the full animation playing, the same way light attacks work currently. The amount of time it takes to bash and then light attack will be the same amount of time it takes to bash twice.
You can still ability weave and cancel into bash. You can still interrupt everyone one of your targets cast bars as there are no casts in game with less than a 1 second cast time.
Its actually a pretty intelligent fix to the shield spam issue, so props to ZoS.
/thread

Do you tested it in PTS?

woodlandwoodsb14_ESO

If 1-Handed/Shield Bash gets a 3 second cooldown, then the Bow ability Venom Arrow should get one as well.

Actually, better make it 4 or 5 seconds. Venom Arrow doesn't require the player to get within melee range to interrupt spells.

/sarcasm off

CapuchinSeven

Loxy37 wrote: »

PvP crowd again? Tut!

Drachenfier wrote: »

I like pvp, but it gets tiresome seeing pve constantly nerfed because of pvp whines.

The idea that this isn't broken in PVE as much as PVP is comical and makes the two of you look like utter planks.

It's broken. It needs a fix. I dropped DW, picked up a shield and did more damage spamming a single ability in PVE.

Drachenfier

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Loxy37 wrote: »

PvP crowd again? Tut!

Drachenfier wrote: »

I like pvp, but it gets tiresome seeing pve constantly nerfed because of pvp whines.

The idea that this isn't broken in PVE as much as PVP is comical and makes the two of you look like utter planks.

It's broken. It needs a fix. I dropped DW, picked up a shield and did more damage spamming a single ability in PVE.

Don't be an idiot. Mobs in pve tend to have much higher HP and defenses than players in pvp. An ability that get its damage nerfed because of pvp can have huge implications in pve, which is why Everquest 2, a ten year old game, had separate values for every single skill when it came to pve and pvp.

Rickter

My guildie is in the PTS *RIGHT NOW* and he is able to repeatedly bash targets @195dmg per bash with no Cool Down whatsoever. He says he is on build 1.1.1

are any of you complainers actually in the PTS? because im calling BS right now also.

Nivzruo_ESO

Not saying I agree or disagree with the nerf, BUT every other MMO has a CD on their interrupts usually a lot longer then 3 secs, try 8 or 10 seconds. Other games also have a LOT more cast abilities here you only got a handful to really worry about. On top of everything else I said, there are a decent number of other ways to interrupt besides Right+ Left click.

Varicite

Drachenfier wrote: »

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Easy&Functional solution for Bash: reduce the damage to less than half.

Hell no, unless you plan on giving the 1h/s line a damage ability.

Man, if only there were 4 other weapons all focused on doing damage and a way for every single character in the game to carry multiple weapons that could be swapped at the push of a button.

It would be pretty fine if that were the case, imo. If only that existed somewhere...

Kililin

lol wtf i dont know what to say.

ITT people repeating that there is no cooldown on PTS, still new posts mentioning and even agreeing with it (the NONEXISTING cooldown)

Drachenfier

Varicite wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Easy&Functional solution for Bash: reduce the damage to less than half.

Hell no, unless you plan on giving the 1h/s line a damage ability.

Man, if only there were 4 other weapons all focused on doing damage and a way for every single character in the game to carry multiple weapons that could be swapped at the push of a button.

It would be pretty fine if that were the case, imo. If only that existed somewhere...

Man, if only the attack and blocking animations on all those other weapons weren't godawful. It would pretty neat if that were the case, imo, if only they were more appealing.

Thechemicals

I do love to shield bash players to death, but a nerf wont change anything. If they nerf shield bash, I have about 3 other ways to do it with powerbash. Even if they decide to nerf powerbash as well, i can ransack clip with a bash. Have you ever seen a player clip light attacks+ransack+bash? Youre not going to like that either.

The changes will not help you survive physical damage by players who excell at maximizing damage per second. While you might think these players are exploiters and have no skill, they are actually playing the game within its parameters and no matter how many times you change or make a nerf, they are still going to find newer ways to kill you.

What you can do is tap into some of those defensive skill lines that everyone has access to, and learn the mechanics of active fighting. You also need to dig deep inside yourself and ask yourself how many situations where you have been shield smashed were you also suffering from 40% armor/spell debuffs and other penalizing debuffs, or if you were standing on that area effect ultimate a little too long and the bash was just the finisher.

Froobert

Not to worry! This nerf will do nothing against your skills if you learn how to harness them!

Shield Bashing for Dummies!

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/97643/sheilds-shield-bashing-for-dummies-how-to-bash#latest

For the Shield!

Talcyndl

Nvm...good to hear there is no 3 second cooldown on the PTS.

driosketch

dbetterton_ESO wrote: »

Nvm...good to hear there is no 3 second cooldown on the PTS.

Thank you for the fast edit. I was about to cry...