The bash nerf, unintended consequences

Xsorus

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

thelg wrote: »

Yes bash spam is dumb and yes it should be fixed. This is probably the worst way to do it.

@Kewljag_66_ESO no thats bash, so no you can't

And no it does not stun

it stuns the target if you interrupt their casting spell. Like when sorc cast bolt. 1.3 sec cast time. It causes a 4 second stun where you can also heavy attack and the knock the target down. and I am talking about the leftclick +right click ability

if you're talking about Interrupt, and they put a 3 second cooldown on it, Then you really can't use it whenever you need now can you?

You only need to use it once to interrupt and then it also stuns for 4 seconds. So you will rarely be waiting on that 3 second timer.

Now if you combine that with the Shield bash ability (even if its put on a 3secnd timer) you will pretty much always have 1 available

Unless you're fighting more then 1 enemy

and no about the shield bash ability

i told you yesterday this has nothing to do with Power Bash.. why you can't understand that i don't know.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

I agree just reduce the damage if thats a problem.

Loxy37

PvP crowd again? Tut!

Drachenfier

I like pvp, but it gets tiresome seeing pve constantly nerfed because of pvp whines.

Maverick827

Drachenfier wrote: »

I like pvp, but it gets tiresome seeing pve constantly nerfed because of pvp whines.

It's like they haven't looked at every failed MMO in the last decade.

Draconiuos

Maverick827 wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I like pvp, but it gets tiresome seeing pve constantly nerfed because of pvp whines.

It's like they haven't looked at every failed MMO in the last decade.

You mean like World of Warcraft which has changed more abilities and talents to balance them for pvp than any other MMO ever.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Draconiuos wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I like pvp, but it gets tiresome seeing pve constantly nerfed because of pvp whines.

It's like they haven't looked at every failed MMO in the last decade.

You mean like World of Warcraft which has changed more abilities and talents to balance them for pvp than any other MMO ever.

You mean the same game that has lost almost half its userbase in the last 3 years?

beravinprb19_ESO

I have always said it needed a nerf. However, I never thought a cooldown was the nerf it needed. Its dumb that you can interrupt power attacks in PvP with it, but it still needs to be available all the time in PvE. They are going about this nerf in the wrong way...

Xsorus

Lower damage would of been more preferred over a cooldown.

ZoS is going to have to rebalance some of the Stamina lines though, as really only 1 handed/shield was decent for PvP

awkwarrd

MOAR TIMERS!!

Because you know it worked on the boss farming bots.. they're all gone now..
NOT!

Nothing of what we say in here means anything to ZOS.
You have to have hundreds of people making hundreds of threads that overflow the forum before they even take notice.

Niffo

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Lower damage would of been more preferred over a cooldown.

ZoS is going to have to rebalance some of the Stamina lines though, as really only 1 handed/shield was decent for PvP

1hand/shield was decent because of bash, all of the stamina based weapon lines really need a boost.

driosketch

Is there someone actually from the PTS in this thread who knows what they are talking about, or is this more panic due hearsay?
Also, are you talking about the 1h+sh weapon skill, or the right,left click interrupt?

I ask, because if the answer to the first question is no, I can test it for you all in a couple hours when I get home. But I need to know what you want looked at.

Draconiuos

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I like pvp, but it gets tiresome seeing pve constantly nerfed because of pvp whines.

It's like they haven't looked at every failed MMO in the last decade.

You mean like World of Warcraft which has changed more abilities and talents to balance them for pvp than any other MMO ever.

You mean the same game that has lost almost half its userbase in the last 3 years?

Last 3 years, yet the game is almost a decade old. Don't get me wrong I don't care for the game anymore, but it was the most successful MMO to date. To say every MMO that has changed things because of pvp failed is just out right wrong. If you are saying they should look to other MMOs, then why would they not look to the most successful MMO?

Xsorus

driosketch wrote: »

Is there someone actually from the PTS in this thread who knows what they are talking about, or is this more panic due hearsay?
Also, are you talking about the 1h+sh weapon skill, or the right,left click interrupt?

I ask, because if the answer to the first question is no, I can test it for you all in a couple hours when I get home. But I need to know what you want looked at.

He's talking about the interrupt, there is only one guy who thinks its Powerbash, and he's an idiot.

NombreDeLaBeast

would have been better (maybe) if they lowered the damage and increased threat. I know people have been saying lower the damage, but it still needs to have some purpose, and with the proposed threat boost it would be more than just a over glorified spell interrupt.

Kililin

lol, looks like they neither know what they do nor what they say.
no cooldowns my ass
just lol, so many bad fixes
and i dont disagree that some things need fixing

Ghenra

Easy&Functional solution for Bash: reduce the damage to less than half.

The_Drexill

I'm a bash spamming DK... and I think it's an ok start. I leveled the whole way out dpsing everyone spamming bash... so it's not just a pvp fix. In PvP I honestly do dominate with bash.

The truth is, right now the best thing to do is to just spam it... it's so efficient. With the 3 sec CD it makes it *attack, ability, bash, attack, ability, bash*... That works imo.

Drachenfier

jparrillab16_ESO wrote: »

Easy&Functional solution for Bash: reduce the damage to less than half.

Hell no, unless you plan on giving the 1h/s line a damage ability.

e.gamemarkb14_ESO

thelg wrote: »

For those that do not know. Bash now has 3 sec cool down on PTS. Great right..

Wait, I thought bashing someone with a shield and using the right + left mouse button to interrupt someone were different things, am I wrong on this thinking?

Since when did ZOS implement cool downs? My understanding was that they would never implement cool downs because we have to use up our resources to use the abilities over and over, no?

Why would all the other skill lines, especially Vampires bat swarm, not also be given a global cool down when the patch notes clearly state they can spam cast it to refresh the time on bat swarm (Which I think is totally ridiculous!)

If I need to interrupt multiple targets in PvE as a tank, how will this effect my ability to do that? Why am I being restricted to bashing multiple opponents in PvP? None of this makes any sense, if this in fact is what they intend to roll out on live.

Honestly, it really feels like their development team is having trouble coming up with any viable solutions and instead may be adding in cool downs which goes completely against what they stated months ago on not having them in the game.

Will see how this turns out, but if they start down this path, how will they ever balance anything out? The community has a ton of bright people who understand game mechanics perhaps even better then the devs, and I have seen tons of viable solutions to just about every issue addressed by these community members.

lao

thelg wrote: »

For those that do not know. Bash now has 3 sec cool down on PTS. Great right..

Not so much. Sorcerer can now stand in melee and cast shards in your face(one fake cast then 2-3 shards that you can not interrupt). In pve there are many bosses/mobs that chain cast guess what you can not interrupt them anymore. Big trash caster pull? Can't interrupt the healers either.

Nerf the damage on bash FFS. Make it do 1 dmg if you want. Do not put timer on it. Best solution just remove Deadly bash passive. Boom problem solved.

Best part it is a huge nerf to Dual wield and 2h users, because they do not have Absorb Magica. Which results in them chain eating shards without ability to do anything about it. Their block obviously sucks so ya instead of nerfing what they wanted they nerfed already gimped melee range spec.

If you are DK use reflective scale you will still be fine, other classes? not so much

if thats true its the most awful fix ive ever seen. they dont even understand the mechanics they ivnented O_o

Xsorus

heh

They went from No AoE Caps and no Cooldowns on abilities to AoE caps and Cooldowns on abilities in a single month of live

Pretty funny stuff

driosketch

Just got back from testing it on the PTS. The premise of this thread is wrong. There is NO cool down to the right click left click bash/interrupt. There is also no cool down for the 1h+sh skill either if anyone is wondering. I can still spam both on enemies without delay.

OP, who exactly did you hear this rumor from?

Sorry to tag the entire thread, I like to squash these before they get out of hand.
@thelg @jobo11b16_ESO @Hodorius @liquid_wolf @xsorusb14_ESO @Kypho @Najarati @Kewljag_66_ESO @7788b14_ESO @cubansyrusb16_ESO @KoooZ @grabbintrionb14_ESO @cubansyrusb16_ESO @kirnmalidus @ChairGraveyard @Syntse @Sempars @Aedh @moXrox @Drachenfier @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO @Loxy37 @Drachenfier @Maverick827 @Draconiuos @beravinprb19_ESO @awkwarrd @NombreDeLaBeast @Kililin @jparrillab16_ESO @brandondickenson_ESO @e.gamemarkb14_ESO @lao

Niffo

driosketch wrote: »

Just got back from testing it on the PTS. The premise of this thread is wrong. There is NO cool down to the right click left click bash/interrupt. There is also no cool down for the 1h+sh skill either if anyone is wondering. I can still spam both on enemies without delay.

OP, who exactly did you hear this rumor?

Well then, OP just riled people up over nothing.

Draconiuos

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

heh

They went from No AoE Caps and no Cooldowns on abilities to AoE caps and Cooldowns on abilities in a single month of live

Pretty funny stuff

Please show me where they said there would never be AOE caps, since they have been in the game since day 1.

Niffo

Draconiuos wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

heh

They went from No AoE Caps and no Cooldowns on abilities to AoE caps and Cooldowns on abilities in a single month of live

Pretty funny stuff

Please show me where they said there would never be AOE caps, since they have been in the game since day 1.

If you look at the ingame tooltips only a handful of skills mention a target cap, every other skill says all or nearby or something along those lines. The fact that they have been in the game since day 1 and no one noticed just shows that the feedback players get from the interface is absolute trash. Whether they said no caps or didn't doesn't matter, and I'm positive people asked during an interview and the question was brushed off.

Draconiuos

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

Draconiuos wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

heh

They went from No AoE Caps and no Cooldowns on abilities to AoE caps and Cooldowns on abilities in a single month of live

Pretty funny stuff

Please show me where they said there would never be AOE caps, since they have been in the game since day 1.

If you look at the ingame tooltips only a handful of skills mention a target cap, every other skill says all or nearby or something along those lines. The fact that they have been in the game since day 1 and no one noticed just shows that the feedback players get from the interface is absolute trash. Whether they said no caps or didn't doesn't matter, and I'm positive people asked during an interview and the question was brushed off.

Poor tool tip descriptions and avoiding the question is not the same as saying something than changing your mind later. In essence the tool tips are right when they say all nearby enemies, because even with the AOE cap the skills go after the closest people first. Therefore they are hitting all nearby enemies within the target cap. You can argue the technicality of the tool tips for ever though. You are right they should have been more clear, but that doesn't mean they changed something if they had it in there from day one and everyone missed it.

Kypho

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

Obviously they hate everyone except Sorcerers. Never had so much fun playing one then in this game.

i hope you are one of the bashomatic guys who know only the bashbashbashbash in fights.

Kypho

I love when exploiters getting their crap fixed, and they attack another class. All who said L2P now QQ. Cant wait to see Sorcs will say L2P to the exbashspammers.

e.gamemarkb14_ESO

Let's try and give meaningful feedback instead of getting emotionally charged up, yes?

There has always been some form of AOE cap on skills, with some skills that were broken and not set correctly internally. We have always had a cap on heals for example, up to 6 players. It has been that way since Beta to current times.

There has always been an AOE cap on most other skills, however these caps do not effect siege weapons, (already tested and proven on PTS).

I agree that ZOS could do a better job at explaining things, especially with more specific tool tip information, and perhaps we will see that over time. Right now they are buried in fixes and balance issues.

A lot of miscommunication and misunderstandings tend to create false ideas and leaves many things to the player base imagination which is never a good thing. I hope they can learn / grow from these experiences and better communicate moving forward.