Would you be willing to suffer from node spawns timers, if it got rid of the bots?

Squishy

I'm currently checking if my assumptions are correct, and it seems one of the few ways possible to deal with the bots, would be to diminish the spawn rates of all nodes within a large area.

It seems, if my findings and assumptions are correct, that node spawn timers, are dependant on the amount of players within a certain radius, but also the amount of player fighting within that same radius. If I am correct, I would sugges the implementation of a timer. If the same players, killed the same mobs 10 times, within 10 minutes, all nodes despawn for 10 minutes. After which, if the same players kills the same mobs, the samething happens but for 30 minutes, then 90 minutes, then 270 etc. Multiplying the no nodes by 3 everytime, but only in the area (I'm assuming the areas are not actually that big, since the bots are all extremelly close to each others).

Natjur

Other option: please comment on your idea.

They are farming the nodes not for the raw resource themselves, but for when they process them, the chance of getting a yellow crafting resource.

Just limit the amount of 'yellow' resources you can get from refining raw resources per toon per day. Each 'yellow' resource you get from refining should lower your chances of getting another one for that day to the points where its almost zero. (same for purple and blue but takes longer to get to the limit)

There is no money in the processed resources themselves (400g per stack) You get more gold, farming normal mobs (50 gold per item dropped sold to vendor ). But the high chance of 'yellow' resources still sell well. Nerf this and the bots move on to the 'next' gold farm. (Used to be dungeon bosses, its now processing raw resources.... wonder what is next?)

Daverios

No.

No.

I laughed in Beta when I first noticed nodes spawning exactly where they were before and said 'Wow the bots will have a field day with this' and now they are and have been for some time.

Randomize node locations and problem solved.

It is becoming clearer this was never intended as a pc game. They did not even try to address PC issues such as botting with design elements and it was never even given a passing thought till after launch.

Ever wonder when the console beta starts? It did on March 30th. Welcome to the console beta!

ChairGraveyard

No.

Guaranteed no timer would ever get rid of the bots - all bots HAVE is time.

Timers hurt legit players, not bots.

ArRashid

Other option: please comment on your idea.

Timers are BAD.
Did times in solo dungeons help? Ofc not. Bots have all the time in the world - you merely slowed them down. But players are seriously pissed now since if you don't get lucky to get blue item on first kill, you can't try again for helluva long. No PLAYER has time to sit around and wait there for that, so they just leave, angry at devs for making such stupid thing.

I'd say, reduce the chance for legendary material (and epic, while you're at it) from lower level (less than, let's say, 4th tier) crafting materials, and THEN the chance would gradually rise bit by bit till the highest tier material.

Evanis

Just make resource nodes instanced and allow them to respawn on an account bound timer. Oh, but wait... ZOS doesn't like to implement things that have been successful in other MMOs "just to be different"...

SexyVette07

Other option: please comment on your idea.

I dont know if its possible, because it seems to happen in every MMO, but close the loophole that allows the bots to farm from under the ground would fix all of this. They would die to random creeps in the world while farming.

Chryos

Yes.

"Guaranteed no timer would ever get rid of the bots - all bots HAVE is time."

Your negativity is poisonous.

I voted yes, mainly because I don't really craft in the first place.

Nazon_Katts

Other option: please comment on your idea.

There's a plethora of other options and the most effective and simple ones already have been suggested.

Nox_Aeterna

No.

Squishy wrote: »

I'm currently checking if my assumptions are correct, and it seems one of the few ways possible to deal with the bots, would be to diminish the spawn rates of all nodes within a large area.

It seems, if my findings and assumptions are correct, that node spawn timers, are dependant on the amount of players within a certain radius, but also the amount of player fighting within that same radius. If I am correct, I would sugges the implementation of a timer. If the same players, killed the same mobs 10 times, within 10 minutes, all nodes despawn for 10 minutes. After which, if the same players kills the same mobs, the samething happens but for 30 minutes, then 90 minutes, then 270 etc. Multiplying the no nodes by 3 everytime, but only in the area (I'm assuming the areas are not actually that big, since the bots are all extremelly close to each others).

Already nerfed the dungeon bosses , because of bots , now they want to nerf the nodes.

Soon , i wont need to worry about the bots anymore ,since i wont be playing at all.

Mansome

No.

I say ban that whole side of the world where the bots play on then refuse connection if the person is using a vpn or some kind of proxy to change how their IP settings are. Problem solved. Its not like the bots are going to come to the USA to bot. And before anyone says what about the legitimate customers who use those tools. Well I say tough luck. A very wise man with pointy ears once said the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Catches_the_Sun

Other option: please comment on your idea.

There has to be another way to deal with bots that doesn't hurt gameplay for everybody else. Maybe some AoE mobs around the nodes, roaming mobs, or something like that. Nobody knows the available options better than Zenimax & I'm confident they'll come up with something.

norrisnick

No.

Nuke the bots, not the nodes.

Maotti

No.

Any more punishing legitimate players because of bots now then i and many others will just quit this game.

Brainzee

Other option: please comment on your idea.

Randomizing the spawn location would be a far better idea than implementing a timer.
Although seeing how other areas of the game are handled I am not convinced that they have competent people to make sure that nodes don't spawn under the world (e.g., rocks, crates ), making resource gathering a nightmare as the nodes would never respawn.

Adding groups of monsters nearby nodes would also be an interesting way to get rid of lazy farming and boting, but you would have to tune it decently, people don't want to spend hours fighting for 4 pieces of ore/leather/wood/whatever either.

Cabot

Other option: please comment on your idea.

nerfing the game mechanic any more than they already are only hurts the players.
___________

• Play hardcore with bots and bot handlers.
• Play hardcore with players who have dealing with websites run by bot handlers, (such as buying their gold, or crafting ingredients).
• Show no sympathy to players that had their account hacked/hijacked from having dealings with bot handlers.

I'm not completely sure these steps will solve the problem, but they are a start and will not punish the player base at all.

All we have to do is report the bots, along with the chat and mailbox spammers and let ZOS do the rest.

Brainzee

Other option: please comment on your idea.

Cabot wrote: »

nerfing the game mechanic any more than they already are only hurts the players.
___________

• Play hardcore with bots and bot handlers.
• Play hardcore with players who have dealing with websites run by bot handlers, (such as buying their gold, or crafting ingredients).
• Show no sympathy to players that had their account hacked/hijacked from having dealings with bot handlers.

I'm not completely sure these steps will solve the problem, but they are a start and will not punish the player base at all.

All we have to do is report the bots, along with the chat and mailbox spammers and let ZOS do the rest.

Care to clarify the whole 'play hardcore' part of your post that seems to be your main argument?
To me playing hardcore means either you play a lot and dedicate that time to a specific aspect of the game or you play in leagues that have permanent death.

I assume you mean ban everything on sight?

Cabot

Other option: please comment on your idea.

when using the term "Play hardcore" I was referring to the business aspects for the game, not the game. So, @Brainzee, you can assume, your assumption is close, but I'm assuming you really already knew that.

Audigy

Other option: please comment on your idea.

A timer benefits bots and add on users, but puts everyone else in a huge disadvantage.

To know when something spawns is the entry ticket to abuse in any MMO.

In my opinion, everything in this game mobs, chest´s, cupboards, bookshelfs and nodes should be totally random. This would fix the bot and add on abuse instantly.

Shiaxi

Other option: please comment on your idea.

Mansome wrote: »

I say ban that whole side of the world where the bots play on then refuse connection if the person is using a vpn or some kind of proxy to change how their IP settings are. Problem solved. Its not like the bots are going to come to the USA to bot. And before anyone says what about the legitimate customers who use those tools. Well I say tough luck. A very wise man with pointy ears once said the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

... not sure if trolling or just... (don't want to break forum rules)

but that's just dumb... do you honestly believe there are no bots in the us?

the very wise man was wrong tho... or more accurately was refering to self sacrifice and not sacrificing others...

Shiaxi

Other option: please comment on your idea.

on topic:

I would support it if it got rid of the bots but I really doubt that it will.
as others have said randomize the spawn location of the nodes; that'd be way more effective

Pele

No.

No because this:

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Guaranteed no timer would ever get rid of the bots - all bots HAVE is time.

Timers hurt legit players, not bots.

Brennan

No.

The way to ban bots is to have GMs sitting near nodes and banning them as they see them. There is a difference between someone walking up to a node and someone teleporting to a node.

Creating issues for all players is not the right way to resolve the issue. Vigilance and swift. sweet justice is the way to resolve the issue.

KerinKor

Other option: please comment on your idea.

Natjur wrote: »

There is no money in the processed resources themselves (400g per stack) You get more gold, farming normal mobs (50 gold per item dropped sold to vendor ). But the high chance of 'yellow' resources still sell well. Nerf this and the bots move on to the 'next' gold farm. (Used to be dungeon bosses, its now processing raw resources.... wonder what is next?)

What 'high chance' are the bots farming tier 1 nodes? I've processed probably 150+ stacks of all types of nodes and got ONE yellow.

I voted no, I refuse to be a volunteer to suffer collateral damage in the war against the bots. ZOS need to BAN BUYERS PUBLICLY as a first action to put FEAR into many. After that they need to identify the bots from the vast amount of data they have logged, as well as implementing pathing detection and other anti-bot tools which they should have done at the outset.

TBH, my preferred solution if node-fiddling is needed is make them PER-PLAYER like GW2 and FFXIV, that means the bots won't affect me trying to farm my own mats for my own crafting.

Oh, and 400g per stack is NOT 'chump change' when you can grab stuff just by running by them.

SadisticSavior

Squishy wrote: »

I'm currently checking if my assumptions are correct, and it seems one of the few ways possible to deal with the bots, would be to diminish the spawn rates of all nodes within a large area.

I don't think diminishing them will help. The problem is that they are on a pattern. Bots exploit this pattern. Diminishing times would just make them run in a larger circle or make them make slightly less gold/XP.

The answer IMO is to disrupt the pattern...make respawn times random. That will stop them from running in a circle. Then the only reliable way for them to make money is to stay in one spot.

Squishy

Yes.

The immobile gathering bots are not on a pattern from what I understood, they just stand there it seems. For the teleporting ones, they just seem to go from one available node, to the next, so making it random probably won't be changing much either .

Considering the size of the maps, and the available spaces for nodes, random spots would have a very limited possible areas.

Since you're interaction area is between 0 and about 2 meters, this makes a 4 meter radius where you can interact with stuff.

Most maps rarely have more than about16 meters without objects, take 4 bots, space them by 4 meters. 16 meters covered.

I don't think random spawns would help either to be honest.

Considering this would not affect players in non bot infested areas, and in currently infested area, we can not gather anyway, I don't think the impact would currently change anything for the players .

ChairGraveyard

No.

Chryos wrote: »

"Guaranteed no timer would ever get rid of the bots - all bots HAVE is time."

Your negativity is poisonous.

I voted yes, mainly because I don't really craft in the first place.

Facts aren't negative. Bots will NEVER EVER be affected by a timer in the way you people seem to think, PERIOD.

Timers only affect legitimate players. Not bots. They are therefore one of THE STUPIDEST WAYS TO COMBAT BOTS.

Just because you're ignorant of all this doesn't mean any of it is "negative".

SadisticSavior

Squishy wrote: »

The immobile gathering bots are not on a pattern from what I understood, they just stand there it seems.

That is not the case in Rivenspire by the farm...there is a hoard of them that moves continuously in a circle, insta-killing anything that spawns. And preventing normal player for killing anything.

Squishy

Yes.

SadisticSavior wrote: »

That is not the case in Rivenspire by the farm...there is a hoard of them that moves continuously in a circle, insta-killing anything that spawns. And preventing normal player for killing anything.

Like I said, I suspect those are only there to increase the fighting players count in certain areas. They TP not to enemies, but specific spots. To disrupt them, simply agro the enemies before the bots arrive, then train the mobs back near a spawn point, and watch the bot carnage . Since the bot wait for full health before tping back, they end up being desynchronized, and moving from one spawn to the next too early, dragging mobs to them, and dying non stop It is entertaining to watch.

Squishy

Yes.

ChairGraveyard wrote: »

Chryos wrote: »

"Guaranteed no timer would ever get rid of the bots - all bots HAVE is time."

Your negativity is poisonous.

I voted yes, mainly because I don't really craft in the first place.

Facts aren't negative. Bots will NEVER EVER be affected by a timer in the way you people seem to think, PERIOD.

Timers only affect legitimate players. Not bots. They are therefore one of THE STUPIDEST WAYS TO COMBAT BOTS.

Just because you're ignorant of all this doesn't mean any of it is "negative".

They will if it is not longer profitable. In this case, having a large amount of bot, waiting doing nothing, is unproductive.

Bot need to be as productive as possible, in the shortest amount of time possible. They know that eventually, all bot accounts will be banned, and need to get as much of what they need as quickly as possible.

If people assumptions are correct that they're refining for rare stuff, in large amounts is correct, slowing them down to a crawl for a lengthy period of time will make them stop, as the bots will be non productive.

As much as I hate it, the bot operations are very much run like a short term goal business, in a large scale. Things need to happen constantly, in large amount, or it is not worth doing. Fact is, we have less bots in dungeons, we have a few persistent ones still, but the numbers from what I saw, is a lot lower.

Fact is, they moved away to open space. So, timers helped getting rid of them in dungeons (or put them on a manageable number) in dungeons.

Like I said a bit above, in bot infested areas, having timers won't change anything for players, since we can no longer harvest in those areas anyway. Adding a timers, in these zones, will only slow bots down, since we are already virtually unable to gather in those areas .

Those harvesting bots seem to be parked at nodes, rather than moving from nodes to nodes.

huntgod_ESO

No.

Timers do not penalize bots, they reward them, real people do not have time to stand around, bots do nothing else.

Timers do not discourage bots, they discourage players.