DK solos Craglon Delve...

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

Maybe vampire isn't the problem... but the ability to gain ultimate from your ultimate and ultimate CDR....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXdLy3KYmWc

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Stuff like this makes me scared to touch pvp with a 20ft pole.

AshTal

Got to wonder who did the balance checks across the skills and classes my guess either no one or the un paid intern.

Ker.Rakb16_ESO

You can do the same thing with a sorc.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Although maybe those werewolves just hit like wet noodles. He was wearing robes and not even using a shield...... but if they do hit how a boss normally hits, then thats messed up.

Nox_Aeterna

Yup , DKs are OP , that is a given.

I wonder how long till zen gets to class nerfs.

Phoenix99

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Yup , DKs are OP , that is a given.

I wonder how long till zen gets to class nerfs.

Sorc first, bro, sorc first...

davidetombab16_ESO

zenimax is blind

Jarnhand

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe vampire isn't the problem... but the ability to gain ultimate from your ultimate and ultimate CDR....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXdLy3KYmWc

Sure, try to get focus away from vamps. Well needed nerf is inc, take a look at how broken/buged/exploitable they are in pvp; its beyond broken. It is ruining pvp for a lot of people.

PvP right now is; who has the biggest bat swarm to abuse, its a clownbin!

It well may be that DK (just like other classes) are OP in some areas, balancing is a continous process.

Izumar

Same deal with vamp, spaming the ult.

Maybe ultimate cooldown has to become a thing. They can't seem to get a handle on it.

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

The only reason people can spam ults is because ults give you more ultimate.

driosketch

V10 DK being played by an experienced player. But I can let @Attorneyatlawl‌ field any questions you have about what's going on in the video and with his build.

awkwarrd

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe vampire isn't the problem... but the ability to gain ultimate from your ultimate and ultimate CDR....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXdLy3KYmWc

Can any other class do that?????????? (except sorc obviously)

cubansyrusb16_ESO

With a sorc that video would be sub 1 minute ..... All he is doing is chugging HP potions, AoE healing, burning talons to hold them and dropping standard.

There is barely any damage being caused, it just looks impressive.

davidetombab16_ESO

This game was programmed by amateurs, that sucks, I have no words

awkwarrd

VR12 content is solo-able by DK's..

lao

awkwarrd wrote: »

VR12 content is solo-able by DK's..

the real question is..

who the *** cares about pve.

aslong as they get it right in pvp i couldnt care less about what they can do in pve.

chrisub17_ESO104

I think this a perfect storm and not really a good scenario to use for overall balance.

Mobs are all melee. A couple of ranged would have *** him up pretty bad.

Inhale is getting a nerf, I doubt this will be doable after that goes in.

I really don't know how much ultimate is generated by ultimate damage. It does seem to me like the duration of standard is kind of a key issue. It's a lot longer then other ultimates. It doesn't seem right to balance ultimate regen based on standard.

Will be interesting to see how they address standard. It is absolutely OP in pve in comparison to every other ultimate. My guess is that they originally designed the DK with the thought that it would not be a high dps class based on regular skills, so they gave it the most powerful ultimate. Complete conjecture of course, just trying to think of why they made standard stand out so much in terms of damage per tick and duration.

TheBull

I love the 20 sec % based heal they have. Real fair.

TheBull

awkwarrd wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe vampire isn't the problem... but the ability to gain ultimate from your ultimate and ultimate CDR....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXdLy3KYmWc

Can any other class do that?????????? (except sorc obviously)

This NB vamp has been yelling that DK was the problem for awhile now.

To the ground!

Attorneyatlawl

driosketch wrote: »

V10 DK being played by an experienced player. But I can let @Attorneyatlawl‌ field any questions you have about what's going on in the video and with his build.

Thanks for tagging me, I hadn't seen this thread. There are definitely some misconceptions being brought up here so I'm glad you did... , plus I hadn't known the video had gone live yet on the MH channel .

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Yup , DKs are OP , that is a given.

I wonder how long till zen gets to class nerfs.

awkwarrd wrote: »

VR12 content is solo-able by DK's..

To be fair, any class could do this encounter solo. In fact, I'll list how:

A sorcerer could complete this encounter with a critical surge-based AOE build to stay healed and a storm atronarch. The atronarch would tank the adds and aoe them down and could be dropped regularly as the sorc aoe'd and taunted the boss itself so it didn't kill said atronarchs.

A templar could complete this encounter by using Repentance to absorb the adds' corpses for resources, solar barrage for a power buff, and then Aedric Spear ultimate in conjunction with it, while relying on Reflective Light morphed for the 3-target snare (hey, perfect, there are two little wolf bosses and one big one! ) to kite the little wolves with. The Templar can build ultimate and aoe rapidly with Biting Jabs and keep the damage rolling with solar barrage as mentioned before.

A nightblade could complete this encounter by using siphoning strikes toggled on with the "any ability" proc chance morph to give resources back, in conjunction with aoe's such as power drain and whirlwind or a destruction staff with pulsar/etc. to keep themselves topped with practically unlimited resources thanks to so many adds spawning providing ample targets to proc off of and keep ult generated. The trickier part for them would be the healing, however they can use the Veil of Blades ultimate to provide themselves a 60% damage reduction for the bulk of the encounter that also damages/helps kill off the adds, and heal using ambush+swallow soul (boosted by the ambush). Pop on a resto staff with the instant cast morph of Force Siphon to add some extra healing on every hit of the boss (I did this with my DK in the video but I didn't have the instant version available on him so I simply did it at the start of the fight and let it lapse). and it would be enough to keep yourself alive until victory .

and finally, a dragon knight could complete this encounter by using the same tactics I showed in the video.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Although maybe those werewolves just hit like wet noodles. He was wearing robes and not even using a shield...... but if they do hit how a boss normally hits, then thats messed up.

The wolves hit for a good amount of damage actually, however I was kiting in a very specific fashion to avoid a lot of their hits, including the boss's Lunge (it has a cone AOE like most werewolves in the game do, but it just doesn't show a red cone graphic in this case whether intentional or bug due to being brand new). If I weren't blocking and moving continuously I would be dead within about 3-4 seconds. But if you watch the movement pattern you'll notice what I'm doing to maximize my lifespan .

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

The only reason people can spam ults is because ults give you more ultimate.

chrisub17_ESO104 wrote: »

I think this a perfect storm and not really a good scenario to use for overall balance.

Mobs are all melee. A couple of ranged would have *** him up pretty bad.

Inhale is getting a nerf, I doubt this will be doable after that goes in.

I really don't know how much ultimate is generated by ultimate damage. It does seem to me like the duration of standard is kind of a key issue. It's a lot longer then other ultimates. It doesn't seem right to balance ultimate regen based on standard.

Will be interesting to see how they address standard. It is absolutely OP in pve in comparison to every other ultimate. My guess is that they originally designed the DK with the thought that it would not be a high dps class based on regular skills, so they gave it the most powerful ultimate. Complete conjecture of course, just trying to think of why they made standard stand out so much in terms of damage per tick and duration.

The mobs are all melee indeed, though there was a good amount of ranged in the packs leading up to the boss and the prior miniboss. For those I used a reflect as needed and LOS'd appropriately to bunch them up.

Inhale already was set to 3 targets for the initial hit on this video because it was taken from the PTS on test version 1.1 of the game. All currently announced balance changes mentioned in the 1.1 notes were in-place when this video was taken there.

I generate no ultimate off of the standard itself, but rather the amount of damage I'm doing thanks to its buff. If I were to just drop a standard there would be no ult generated if I were doing nothing else. This was changed pre-launch.

Standard is a very strong ultimate for pve, but unlike a storm atronarch it can't tank an add for you for example, or negate it cannot shut down monsters 100% that cast. However it is definitively one of the top ultimates in the game in my opinion. I can agree the duration is on the long side, however it is also stationary unlike some other ultimates in the game that are powerful (examples would be devouring swarm, magma armor/shell, nightblade incapacitating strike (I know it's a single attack but you get it charged multiple times in the span of a single standard), etc.).

TheBull wrote: »

I love the 20 sec % based heal they have. Real fair.

It isn't a percentage-based heal, but rather a static amount when I drop an ultimate of around 700-800 points of health/magicka/stamina from the Battle Roar passive. It used to do around 4/5 of that character's health/magicka/stamina before being nerfed a couple of times in a row before launch. It is not timered and not percentage-based; if I had less health it would still do the same static amount based on my ultimate's cost.

driosketch wrote: »

V10 DK being played by an experienced player. But I can let @Attorneyatlawl‌ field any questions you have about what's going on in the video and with his build.

And to quote this a second time to finish up, I have been doing similar things in MMO's dating back to Dark Age of Camelot. I'm experienced in finding ways to kill and/or farm encounters with small numbers of characters or solo, both for fun and in some games for gold/credit/etc.-making. I have played ESO since July of 2013 and was a first-batch pick for the Public Test Server, so I have been at this game a good while at this point. The primary purpose of the video was just as a for-fun thing, and while it does show a handful of potential balance issues for pve and pvp, this is an extreme-case scenario for the results of those mechanics.

---

I hope this helps clarify exactly what was going on in the video and that it isn't any single class that can handle this. I appreciate the response to it however and everyone's reactions, whether I agree with any given one or not it is great to see your replies. Thanks all and if you want me to elaborate on anything I mentioned please feel free to ask.

TheBull

Do you think Zenimax even knows how out of line this stuff is? Game breaking. Look at Cyrodiil.

TheBull

davidetombab16_ESO wrote: »

zenimax is blind

*** crazy man.

Mykah

"A nightblade could complete this encounter by using siphoning strikes toggled on with the "any ability" proc chance morph to give resources back, in conjunction with aoe's such as power drain and whirlwind or a destruction staff with pulsar/etc. to keep themselves topped with practically unlimited resources thanks to so many adds spawning providing ample targets to proc off of and keep ult generated. The trickier part for them would be the healing, however they can use the Veil of Blades ultimate to provide themselves a 60% damage reduction for the bulk of the encounter that also damages/helps kill off the adds, and heal using ambush+swallow soul (boosted by the ambush). Pop on a resto staff with the instant cast morph of Force Siphon to add some extra healing on every hit of the boss (I did this with my DK in the video but I didn't have the instant version available on him so I simply did it at the start of the fight and let it lapse). and it would be enough to keep yourself alive until victory"

This is tneory craft from someone who has nevered played a VR Nightblade. Keeping up a 15 second ultimate an entire fight for a NB is rediculous as we cannot build Ulti like a DK standard and talons spam. At most we could reduce Veil of Blades to 100 Ulti, and if we're supposed to be using Leeching Strikes at -25% damage, we aren't going to be making that 100 ulti back spamming 75% power WWs. Also your claim we are supposed to Ambush INTO a target to boost Swallow Soul healing is rediculous as your video clearly shows you KITING the entire fight to stay alive. There is simply no way a NB could pull off something like this.

Ultimate cost reduction gear and passives need to be removed from the game period. Also Ultimate should not regen while an Ulti ability is active. After that they can get to work on the broken NB trees for the 100 of us not rerolling FOTM DK or Sorc builds.

Lancegor

Mykah wrote: »

" Keeping up a 15 second ultimate an entire fight for a NB is rediculous as we have no Ulti cost reduction like DK or Sorc.

Ult cost reduction for DK? Where did u find it? It's non-existent

Lancegor

From my point of view Attorneyatlawl explanation is pretty well written, detailed and self-explanatory.

Alexandrious

Yanno, I look at my trees and my passives, every single time someone complains that DKs have some ult cost reduction. yet I fail to see anything that reduces ult cost, I do however see one passive that generates ult by using skills from a specific tree, one of which this player has on his second bar.

Would very much like to know where this hidden cost is, from the looks of when his ult got to 100 percent, the only ult cost reduction he may have been using is the crafted seducer set bonus.

Mykah

I don't know every DK skill forgive the Ulti reduction comment.

The intention of my post is a NB can't keep up his Ulti the way the DK does in this video spamming Standard and Talons. They need to fix Ulti so it doesnt regen while and Ulti is active.

Its hilarious to me the OP thinks this kind of play would work on a NB and shows how delusional people become playing unbalanced mechanics that are in their favor. "If my class can do it everyone can do it, people need to learn how"... Cognitive dissonance.

Kililin

Really they should fix the existing skills, before beginning to circle nerf everything.
For a NB with the amount of bugged Skills we have, i dont think we know what we could do or not do with a a working skillset.

Also i think Weapon Skills need to be buffed to compete with Class Skills, yes everyone can get them, but that is a good thing for balance.

If you still have imbalances you can start to investigate why.

A Video made by a skilled player who knows his class mechanics well is no ground for nerfing something. If you struggle in normal VR content, you should search for the problems in your build and playstyle and not try to drag everyone else down to your level, doesnt even help you because afterwards everyone would play your class and do things you can not...

Mykah

Well Talons IS getting fixed so it only effects 3 targets so this wont be possible after that change anyways.
Its hard to tell how good this guy is AE kiting PVE mobs using a few abilities and not even needing to dodge roll, kind of reminds me of EQ1 druid kiting.
People confuse skill with FOTM min maxers finding broken builds first.

Also you seem keen on the idea I am struggeling in VR content which is why I'm here discusing Ulti mechanics in a video showing a min maxer soloing GROUP content on his broken PvE class. I would probably wipe the floor with this guy 1v1 no offense to him as I'm a twitch pvper first a foremost, because I'm not a PvE mob stuck in his Talon Spam.

I find your inference that fixing NB abilities would allow the class to perform like the DK in this video silly, and think your arguing for the sake of discrediting my point rather than being realistic. Not that it matters, as I said Talons is getting fixed with a target cap.

Getorix

Cant believe someone made a AAA western mmo with a potion chugging mechanic.

If they don't get rid of the insane idea that anyone can balance a game where any combo of stupid skill sets are viable without over powering all the smart builds, get back to the trinity and do away with potion chugging this games pve is doomed. And stuff like this video will be happening all the time.