Are campers just as detrimental as bots?

Gisgo

Im sorry but the genre (being a mmo) impacts on a game much more than the franchise (being an ES game).

This is a MMO in an ES sauce and tbh im surprised by how well they managed to keep the ESness alive in this game.

SeñorCinco

Gisgo wrote: »

Im sorry but the genre (being a mmo) impacts on a game much more than the franchise (being an ES game).

This is a MMO in an ES sauce and tbh im surprised by how well they managed to keep the ESness alive in this game.

Clearly a discussion and topic all to it's own.

However, I am impressed as well. It is a balance that demands constant attention for it evolve into the medium of acceptance of being both. In fact, my most concerning question coming into the beta last September was..

Will this game, being an MMO, play like an ES game and have the same feel as it's predecessors in the e series?

After as few short minutes, I knew that answer to be an emphatic.. yes.


I look at every character as just another NPC and anyone I team up with is no different than teaming up with a follower form the other games.

Nox_Aeterna

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

No, because now you are trying to force playstyles on people.

Yup totally agree with this.

People farm , if they are doing it themselves , not using a bot to do it , them it is fair game to me.

nudel

SeñorCinco wrote: »

*snip*

I look at every character as just another NPC and anyone I team up with is no different than teaming up with a follower form the other games.

Lol are we remembering the same followers? Because the followers I played with were pretty stupid. Heck the followers in this game are still pretty stupid. I mean I would have had to reload 100 times just to get through the tutorial if Lyris could actually die and her being alive was a condition for turn in.

Even the most inexperienced player is still miles more useful than an AI follower.

SuperScrubby

Nope. I've seen some pretty dumb players that are better off not touching their keyboard and letting other people do the work.

pxlforge

Is there some sort of posted rule about camping? Is it officially not allowed? I was tryng to get some blues the other day for Dwarven Oil when I heard talk that some people had been banned but they weren't bots.

Honestly, I don't understand progammable bots or how they can run a character anyway. I've heard about them for years. So I'm not sure why game companies haven't figured out how to block them by now.

SuperScrubby

In this game players don't like it because it affects their "immersion" in the game. Basically they don't like having other players around while playing an MMO that they think is a single player ES game.

roflcopter

SuperScrubby wrote: »

In this game players don't like it because it affects their "immersion" in the game. Basically they don't like having other players around while playing an MMO that they think is a single player ES game.

Has nothing to do with that. If you don't think the current state of areas that are being EXP farmed or the Dungeon Boss campers is a little bit silly, I am not sure what to say.

Playing with other players is very much different than having to tolerate / play around other players.

In my opinion it looks embarrassing on both the game / player end that this happens. (not talking about botting). Players can easily obtain the EXP / Gear EASILY just by doing silly little quests.

SeñorCinco

nudel wrote: »

Lol are we remembering the same followers? Because the followers I played with were pretty stupid. .

That depends... are you talking about TES in general... or ESO?

The AI or a person was not the point. The fact that you actually have someone else along and doing damage is a constant.

SeñorCinco

SuperScrubby wrote: »

In this game players don't like it because it affects their "immersion" in the game. Basically they don't like having other players around while playing an MMO that they think is a single player ES game.

Granted immersion is an element that some use for this case. However, my concerns lay outside the immersive element.

I'm glad I still like to actually play games.

Why build a character and achieve the best gear and perks for them, when they don't have to do anything once they get there?

SuperScrubby

Campers are different than people grinding an area. Campers are specific for a named mob or boss. Most complaints and the reason why the respawn timer was changed for bosses was that campers and bots were killing bosses in public dungeons before noobs could do enough damage. I say noobs because they refused to use a hard hitting skill or in rapid succession to do enough damage for a claim. Instead they would do an light attack and thing they should get credit for loot.

Immersion has everything to do with it. People have been complaining for the past month about how they don't like going into a public dungeon and seeing tons of other people. Most of the people that are complaining about campers are single player gamers that wanted this to be the next game in the ES series.

The only exception to this are the people that are camping the vampire/werewolf mobs to grief and sell them.

Reevster

SeñorCinco wrote: »

This poll was created out of curiosity if the general consensus considers campers to be the equivalent of boss botting.

This was in discussion form the Customer Support forum, for whatever reason I'd suspect due to no General Discussion. However, it was closed due to a political outlash.

Leave your personal attacks and political views at the door please.

IMO, a group of boss campers are just as detrimental to the game and the gaming experience as a group of bots. The argument of an automated character vs a controlled character is weak, when the outcome is the exact same.

It makes no difference if you set a trap or pull the trigger. It's still murder.

Lol , you put you political view there I see.

Its a MMO , camping is part of it ,nothing wrong with camping a mob for a few hours , bots on the other hand are not but I don't think they will ever be able to get rid of them all.

SeñorCinco

SuperScrubby wrote: »

Campers are different than people grinding an area.

Campers are the people grinding an area.

Most of the people that are complaining about campers are single player gamers that wanted this to be the next game in the ES series..

I ask for a stat to show this weighing in favor of SP.

FTR... this is the next installment in the series.

SeñorCinco

Reevster wrote: »

Lol , you put you political view there I see.

You obviously are reading something not part of my comment.

...lol

Its a MMO , camping is part of it ,nothing wrong with camping a mob for a few hours , bots on the other hand are not ...

You need to explain to me how anyone can justify one and condemn the other.

This "It's an MMO" argument is just as weak now as the first 1K people that threw that in when they have no where else to turn.

You cannot tell me that a gaming developer actually intends for camping a boss to be part of the core mechanics. That's not farming. it's exploiting the game.


For a player to kill a boss more than once or twice due to an intended drop or from some unacquired merit for the kill is one thing... but to (camp) sit and pound out the same thing for a few hrs is toxic to the entire game.

Baraz

If it is not meant as normal gameplay, than the devs will easily apply limits at some point (I guess Zenimax underestimated how many players abuse if they can).

Currently, many resources in the game can be "auto-farmed" as they respawn quickly at the exact same location. They will soon, though, change that for chests in group dungeons.

Zaxq

SeñorCinco wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

How does it affect you? If you get a hit on it it counts for you too.

Because it directly inhibits the accomplishment of the challenge of it being a "boss" fight.

You are robbing the enjoyment of the challenge from the game.

Thus, you are also forcing the player to attune to the playstyle, if it can even be called that, of the campers.

And if you get your way you would be robbing the campers of their enjoyment of the game, and forcing them to attune to your playstyle. How is that any fairer?

Campers are real players, and annoying as they are sometimes, are perfectly entitled to play the game the way they want to - so long as they stay with ToS.

Bots aren't real players and are therefore treated differently.

Sounds like another case of an ego-centric player wanting the world to revolve around him.

Darastix

Campers/farmers should be treated the same as botters, slapped with a hearty ban.

Nox_Aeterna

Darastix wrote: »

Campers/farmers should be treated the same as botters, slapped with a hearty ban.

That is your opinion which is valid , like all the others.

But if this threads servers to show anything , is that majority do not agree with you.

kristiannyman88b16_ESO

There's a huge difference between botting and camping.

Botting is a automated program that stand and repeat the same *** as it as been programmed to do. It doesn't get tired, distracted or behave like a human.

"Campers" usally stay cause they want a special item and when they get it they leave.
Sure there can be griefers whose soul purpose is to destroy for other people.
If that's the case then sure they deserve some punishment. Cause of their behavior, not cause they're killing the same monster.

I do understand that it might feel really annoying fighting over enough damage done. This is however a problem that pretty much disepair at Veteran. At VR6+ there's content when you really want other people there. It can be quite hard to find other people. So limiting playeraccess to the dungeons even more is not a good idea.

And like previously mentioned. It's a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

There will always be camping/grinding specially when you get close to endgame. It's just how it works. Most people are nice though and help you out so you get loot etc. But expecting 1 vs. Boss in every dungeon in an MMO is madness.

P.S. There's really no point in camping pre Veteran. Sure people might want the blue item and a few soul gems. Other than that it's just a waste since exp and loot is really bad.

SeñorCinco

Zaxq wrote: »

And if you get your way you would be robbing the campers of their enjoyment of the game, and forcing them to attune to your playstyle. How is that any fairer?

Camping is not a playstyle. It's an exploit.

Campers are real players, and annoying as they are sometimes, are perfectly entitled to play the game the way they want to - so long as they stay with ToS.

Bots aren't real players and are therefore treated differently.

I am glad you took the time to share your views with us and vote your feelings. Everyone has a voice.

Sounds like another case of an ego-centric player wanting the world to revolve around him.

Why do you people need to be that way is beyond me. You post a valid and respectable response only to end it with snide remarks.It belittles no one but yourself when you do that.

SeñorCinco

kristiannyman88b16_ESO wrote: »

But expecting 1 vs. Boss in every dungeon in an MMO is madness.

That would be madness and I would greatly disagree with anyone that would suggest such a thing.

pxlforge

so... no rule against it? do they try human communication with the "alleged" bots before they ban people? I humanly farm bosses while watching TV occasionally. I don't want to be banned.

pxlforge

?

knaveofengland

well last night I did go into a few places where bosses was they was mobbed I did need to kill the boss did try several times until I did then left,
so I know most were players 2 of them I seen them before also they in guild so
to report everyone would be a mistake ,
the next place I went was quite a few I know most was players but I did see 2 bots boss was dead didn't even have time to hit him was dead that quick so after 15+ minutes I did mange to actually him him and leave but I didn't get any drop on both of them, so this is a problem but with so many hard to tell who is bot and player.
when you been suspended like I was lost 40 bank slots and 10k gold eso only replaced a fraction of what I lost , so I rather not report if theres a chance a real player might get banned , I will only report if I know for sure

niocwy

Campers can be talked to, hopefully, so I think of them as a bit less annoying.

Moreover, I didn't have a problem with campers yet, in the opposite bots have been a real pain (but I actually see less and less of them).

Jenasy

I think that if u report everyone, even just the campers u are making so much work for customer support which causes less response time if customers need help. I would suggest being reasonably sure its a bot before reporting.

There are certain ways you can tell its a bot, are the names something random like rryy or gijk. Usually there are 2 or more with similar random like names. Do they stand completely still until the boss spawns and kill, then still again. When you whisper and ask, are u a bot? do they answer. Not 100% but worth putting the time in so we are not all wasting Zenimax's time with false reports.

Lets say i wanna kill the boss a few times to get some decent loot i don't think that's a big issue and it would be very frustrating if i got banned for that and had to appeal it and wait a long time because of all the false bot reports..

They are implementing loot timers for public bosses. I am not sure how long the timer is though but i did see something about it on the patch that was suppose to come in today and didnt because of some error. I really think this issue will get better. Over the last couple weeks ive seen a decline in bots

Lkory

Darastix wrote: »

Campers/farmers should be treated the same as botters, slapped with a hearty ban.

And you will be the first wonder how the hell did ESO go F2P so quickly in a few months?

You can also talk to farmers, you know? Its easy if they aren't 10 of them, just ask em politely to let you try the boss solo or join their group if you are not able to do enough damage to get loot. But seriously, you should be able to get loot every time if there is 4-5 persons there... select a quick animation skill and spam it till you are out of mana or stamina.

Gisgo

pxlforge wrote: »

so... no rule against it? do they try human communication with the "alleged" bots before they ban people? I humanly farm bosses while watching TV occasionally. I don't want to be banned.

But... but...
You are ruining my immersion!!!

roflcopter

Lkory wrote: »

Darastix wrote: »

Campers/farmers should be treated the same as botters, slapped with a hearty ban.

And you will be the first wonder how the hell did ESO go F2P so quickly in a few months?

You can also talk to farmers, you know? Its easy if they aren't 10 of them, just ask em politely to let you try the boss solo or join their group if you are not able to do enough damage to get loot. But seriously, you should be able to get loot every time if there is 4-5 persons there... select a quick animation skill and spam it till you are out of mana or stamina.

So lets say ZO did entertain an idea to change the TOS or mechanics of the game, this thought alone would certainly drive the game to a F2P model? Is it because you think out of all the subs 80% of the playerbase love this style and would drive them to quit if something were to be done? Interesting thought... I think it would take much more than a change in this area to drive a game to F2P. But you do sound pretty confidant in this so I should believe you.

Anywho, I don't think there will be a fix for this, and part of me thinks there shouldn't be. But still can't get over how silly people look while camping bosses or exp farming nekkid. Certainly could be a potential black eye for the TES series.

Lkory

roflcopter wrote: »

Lkory wrote: »

Darastix wrote: »

Campers/farmers should be treated the same as botters, slapped with a hearty ban.

And you will be the first wonder how the hell did ESO go F2P so quickly in a few months?

You can also talk to farmers, you know? Its easy if they aren't 10 of them, just ask em politely to let you try the boss solo or join their group if you are not able to do enough damage to get loot. But seriously, you should be able to get loot every time if there is 4-5 persons there... select a quick animation skill and spam it till you are out of mana or stamina.

So lets say ZO did entertain an idea to change the TOS or mechanics of the game, this thought alone would certainly drive the game to a F2P model? Is it because you think out of all the subs 80% of the playerbase love this style and would drive them to quit if something were to be done? Interesting thought... I think it would take much more than a change in this area to drive a game to F2P. But you do sound pretty confidant in this so I should believe you.

Anywho, I don't think there will be a fix for this, and part of me thinks there shouldn't be. But still can't get over how silly people look while camping bosses or exp farming nekkid. Certainly could be a potential black eye for the TES series.

Pretty much exaggerating, but if they apply this kind of solution for every problem it will.

Too much WTS/WTB/WTT in chat... ban the traders!

Someone going afk for 5 mins at a fort and it gets under attack... he got free Alliance points..BAN!

You get the concept.