Are campers just as detrimental as bots?

Grygnak

SeñorCinco wrote: »

ZIKE wrote: »

Really? This is your best offense to someone pointing out the obvious? This game has plenty of solo content players can enjoy, now they want to convert these public dungeons into solo instances too?

Not at all. You can try to put this on a SP vs MMO aspect but that's just spin. I, in no way, even remotely suggested anything close.

If you want to dictate how people play in the game, perhaps you can pay for their subscriptions as well?

LuckyHermit

I think camping is harmful if it causes problems.
Unfortunately I have run across multiple broken quests that just so happen to have a large group of people camping/farming a mob in the area. Coincidence? I doubt it.

I personally find it annoying when I'm trying to complete a dungeon or a quest, and I have to struggle to get a quick hit in on a mob because so many people are just standing there waiting for it to spawn. Beyond that, it creates an atmosphere that I don't personally enjoy. A little immersion breaking if you will.

If Zenimax takes steps to thwart camping by making the mob spawn only once per trip through a dungeon, or only spawns once for each player, I'd be happy.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

SeñorCinco wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

So you want a single player game?

Really? In defense of your having to camp a boss fight, you come to the plate with that?

I am compelled to ask... So, you support bots camping a boss?

This isnt about bots, you are telling people to ban players who may be waiting for a specific drop.

SeñorCinco

Grygnak wrote: »

If you want to dictate how people play in the game, perhaps you can pay for their subscriptions as well?

But you are doing that very thing, by dictating how a player addresses a boss fight.

If anything you should pay their script because you are playing the game for them.

Grygnak

SeñorCinco wrote: »

Grygnak wrote: »

If you want to dictate how people play in the game, perhaps you can pay for their subscriptions as well?

But you are doing that very thing, by dictating how a player addresses a boss fight.

If anything you should pay their script because you are playing the game for them.

Nah goodsir, that is left to the developers who designed the game.

SeñorCinco

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

This isnt about bots, you are telling people to ban players who may be waiting for a specific drop.

It is about bots and campers alike. I never said anything about banning anyone. I challenge you quote me saying that.

A group of 6 campers are the same incursion as 6 bots.

Gisgo

SeñorCinco wrote: »

A group of 6 campers are the same incursion as 6 bots.

First define "campers", then read the ToS you signed.
I rarely kill a boss twice (unless i didnt get the credit which happens) but if anyone wants to waste their time doing so why should i care?

Grygnak

SeñorCinco wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

This isnt about bots, you are telling people to ban players who may be waiting for a specific drop.

It is about bots and campers alike. I never said anything about banning anyone. I challenge you quote me saying that.

A group of 6 campers are the same incursion as 6 bots.

Maybe you should address you gameplay habits, because you're obviously camping the campers camping.

Eris

I vote no. The reason is simple, a bot is an automated software running the show. A camper is someone that is just standing in one place or area to get whatever they are trying t get, the difference is that the user is there and just not changing areas. No biggie, seems boring to me, but again no biggie if that's the way they want to play it.

Rosveen

SeñorCinco wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

I don't intend to camp, but half of the time I don't get any loot and it's a little annoying. .

If you are the same Kitty form the Beth forums, then...o/ If not ten o/, anyway. It is good to see you or to meet you, which ever the case may be.

To address your statement, the campers/bots are preventing you from getting loot because you must do a given amount of damage to inherit any loot at all.

You find challenge in public dungeons? Even without bots and campers, there are usually other people helping you defeat the boss. It can be a nice, social group effort, but not exactly an epic battle testing your strength and skill.

I completely agree with the social element. I have met friends and play with them today from meeting in a dungeon. However, the challenge is still there.

Had the boss been camped, we would have never truly acknowledged each other in the first place.

It's me. Cut off from my avatar, I nearly had an internet identity crisis, but it's still me. Hello to you too.

I know about the loot. The thing is that if I stay, I'm causing the same problem. I cleared the dungeon, I could move on, but I join the DPS race instead. I don't see it as an exploit, but technically it does make it more difficult for other players to get a hit. I'd prefer not to get reported as a camper...

Of course I can't disagree with the second part, I was thinking mainly about difficulty level. But even so public dungeons are quite low on my list of the best places to meet people. Not only because of botters, higher level zones don't have so many of them. Maybe it's just my experience though. My ESO friendlist includes people I met elsewhere in the depths of the internet, in group dungeons, even a guy I chatted with when we were fishing. But public dungeons for the most part have been 'everyone for themselves' or silent cooperation. With one notable exception of a guy who patiently helped my squishy healer finish Crow's Wood. I'd have failed miserably without you, good sir!

SeñorCinco

Gisgo wrote: »

First define "campers", then read the ToS you signed.
I rarely kill a boss twice (unless i didnt get the credit which happens) but if anyone wants to waste their time doing so why should i care?

If you need a def of camping a boss, then I dare suggest that this isn't the discussion for you. If you don't care then that same logic applies.

I stand corrected. As everyone's opinion is just.


People play for different reasons but when you literally interfere with others then it becomes an issue.


Just curious... why did you not receive credit?

Gisgo

SeñorCinco wrote: »

Just curious... why did you not receive credit?

A couple of bugs.
My dps rocks and im faster than Billy the Kid :P

Also the ToS (terms of service) is not an opinion. Killing the same boss over and over is NOT forbidden. Automated 3rd party programs are. Go and read it.

roflcopter

Gisgo wrote: »

SeñorCinco wrote: »

A group of 6 campers are the same incursion as 6 bots.

First define "campers", then read the ToS you signed.
I rarely kill a boss twice (unless i didnt get the credit which happens) but if anyone wants to waste their time doing so why should i care?

Always comes back to the TOS. Yes, the TOS does not frown upon campers. We know that there are players who don't camp for items, and it isn't just about dungeon bosses, have you seen any of the leveling areas where people grind out exp. Running in circles with their nekkid toon? Looks really good for the game. Don't you think / feel that this could potentially hinder some players in game experiences?

But in chair or automated program its all looks the same to someone who is trying to level or get immersed in the game. I always work around it, but can't help but chuckle sometimes on how bad this looks. Are players really desperate for that blue piece of gear that they can get for 300 gold in a guild store?

Or that 10k exp they are grinding out, just by doing 1 quest? To me and only me it is kind of funny that i have to stand upon a boss spam with 10-15 people and spam 1 key in order to get credit. If people weren't talking about actively killing the boss in /say chat I would chalk it up to bots, but to see people actively kill a boss 10-17 times is kinda funny and a bad look for the game.

For me its less about play style than it is about a potential black eye for this game.

Gisgo

I dont know guys... if you spent half of the time you spent on the forum leveling up you would already be in the no-bots zone, aka VR areas.

/shrug

roflcopter

Gisgo wrote: »

I dont know guys... if you spent half of the time you spent on the forum leveling up you would already be in the no-bots zone, aka VR areas.

Sweet idea, I will give up the rest of my productive life as well as potentially helping out other people on the forums (5 minutes here and there checking), pick up some hot pockets and mountain dew and keep to myself!

Good idea!

Too bad a new player can't opt for that option and have to deal with what is being discussed in this thread.

Jadeviper1974

While I do believe that "campers" can sometimes become annoying, usually they are looking for that one special item and will move on after they have gotten that item. Bots just say forever until they are dealt with by the company.

Gisgo

roflcopter wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

I dont know guys... if you spent half of the time you spent on the forum leveling up you would already be in the no-bots zone, aka VR areas.

Sweet idea, I will give up the rest of my productive life as well as potentially helping out other people on the forums (5 minutes here and there checking), pick up some hot pockets and mountain dew and keep to myself!

Good idea!

Too bad a new player can't opt for that option and have to deal with what is being discussed in this thread.

I wonder how productive can your life be while browsing this forum.

roflcopter

Gisgo wrote: »

roflcopter wrote: »

Gisgo wrote: »

I dont know guys... if you spent half of the time you spent on the forum leveling up you would already be in the no-bots zone, aka VR areas.

Sweet idea, I will give up the rest of my productive life as well as potentially helping out other people on the forums (5 minutes here and there checking), pick up some hot pockets and mountain dew and keep to myself!

Good idea!

Too bad a new player can't opt for that option and have to deal with what is being discussed in this thread.

I wonder how productive can your life be while browsing this forum.

You would be surprised on the magic I can make happen and still browse a forum on down time.

why are you browsing a forum and not in game?

Gisgo

roflcopter wrote: »

You would be surprised on the magic I can make happen and still browse a forum on down time.

why are you browsing a forum and not in game?

Touché.
For the same reason you are.

SeñorCinco

Gisgo wrote: »

I dont know guys... if you spent half of the time you spent on the forum leveling up you would already be in the no-bots zone, aka VR areas.

/shrug

So to satisfy this situation you suggest that one should adopt your playstyle and grind to VR? Albeit abandon their own?

I have probably invested more hrs than the average player. I invested 5K+ hrs in Skyrim alone and never advanced the MQ past meeting the Graybeards. For that matter, I never even started the CW questline.

I stated prior to release that I will start and finish many characters in ESO. Therefore I doubt i will ever see level 50 from any of them.

roflcopter

Gisgo wrote: »

roflcopter wrote: »

You would be surprised on the magic I can make happen and still browse a forum on down time.

why are you browsing a forum and not in game?

Touché.
For the same reason you are.

Gisgo

Now dont read behind my words.
Its a suggestion, if you really are THAT annoyed about bots, level up and you wont see them anymore.

Jeremy

SeñorCinco wrote: »

This poll was created out of curiosity if the general consensus considers campers to be the equivalent of boss botting.

This was in discussion form the Customer Support forum, for whatever reason I'd suspect due to no General Discussion. However, it was closed due to a political outlash.

Leave your personal attacks and political views at the door please.

IMO, a group of boss campers are just as detrimental to the game and the gaming experience as a group of bots. The argument of an automated character vs a controlled character is weak, when the outcome is the exact same.

It makes no difference if you set a trap or pull the trigger. It's still murder.

As long as the re-spawn timers are reasonable I don't think legitimate camping will be much of an issue. At least they haven't been for me so far.

The reason bots are so bad is they are automated. They never need to sleep or use the restroom or run out of patience. They stay there forever and never tire or move on. You won't have this issue with real people doing it.

SeñorCinco

Gisgo wrote: »

Now dont read behind my words.
Its a suggestion, if you really are THAT annoyed about bots, level up and you wont see them anymore.

No twisting or spin there. It is what it is. Besides that is a "blinders to the world" context by getting past a certain point. I'm sorry but i cannot do that and feel that the issue is resolved.

SeñorCinco

Jeremy wrote: »

As long as the re-spawn timers are reasonable I don't think legitimate camping will be much of an issue. ...

... You won't have this issue with real people doing it.

I'm afraid the control is irrelevant here. However, to entertain that logic, bots that remain and a player force that may dwindle will quickly be replaced by passersby that jump on the camp wagon. It's just a changing of the guard. The same ramifications are in play. That being they are all hindering the gameplay of others.

EDIT :

roflcopter wrote: »

For me its less about play style than it is about a potential black eye for this game.

That is sig worthy.

Gisgo

SeñorCinco wrote: »

I'm sorry but i cannot do that and feel that the issue is resolved.

Lets be real, name me a MMO where the bot issue is resolved.
Now in lowbie areas its running rampart and should be dealt with but reporting legit players for just being there (as it happening) isnt helping. At all.

SeñorCinco

Gisgo wrote: »

Lets be real, name me a MMO where the bot issue is resolved.
Now in lowbie areas its running rampart and should be dealt with but reporting legit players for just being there (as it happening) isnt helping. At all.

To address the first part, I come here from TES and not other MMOS. Therefore I cannot ascertain to what they do or don't do. With the exception of EVE, where an open world PvP puts a damper on them while they still exist. Even so, this isn't a debate over the best way to rid the game of botters. This discussion was initiated to depict the mirrored complications with dealing with both bots and campers.

The latter is a weak against my argument as it's a cop out form acknowledging that campers impose the same effect as the bots. Telling me to exploit the game and go against my concept of playing is wrong.

When I grind, I can't help but feel ... "dirty" as if I cheated my way to get there. If that is how I'm expected to play then my interest would lay elsewhere.

Gisgo

Unfortunately for you, TESO is a MMO.
I understand you though, if i came from the ES franchise without being also a MMO player, i would be disappointed.
But again, this is a MMO and there isnt a way around this.

Jeremy

SeñorCinco wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

As long as the re-spawn timers are reasonable I don't think legitimate camping will be much of an issue. ...

... You won't have this issue with real people doing it.

I'm afraid the control is irrelevant here. However, to entertain that logic, bots that remain and a player force that may dwindle will quickly be replaced by passersby that jump on the camp wagon. It's just a changing of the guard. The same ramifications are in play. That being they are all hindering the gameplay of others.

I get what you are saying but just hasn't been my experience. The changing of the guard as you put it doesn't happen systematically enough to compare with bots, who can dominate a spawn infinitely without a changing of players ever having to take place.

So to me at least: the difference between bots camping something and that of real players has been stark and very noticeable.

SeñorCinco

Gisgo wrote: »

Unfortunately for you, TESO is a MMO.
I understand you though, if i came from the ES franchise without being also a MMO player, i would be disappointed.
But again, this is a MMO and there isnt a way around this.

I beg to differ. This is TES first and an MMO second.

That was the premise it was sold on form the get go. Still, no one is suggesting that it be a solo game, although it support a solo player. While I admittedly have a limited knowledge to what other MMOs may be, this is not like other MMOs, unfortunately for a lot of players, I'd image.

What it is and supposed to be is not any defense to the fact that camping is bad for the game, overall.