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LGBT Quests
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demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Quite the silly conversation.
Plenty of interracial relationships, plenty of male/male relationships...
What bothers me is that most of the male/male relationships occur between npc's of relatively the same race. If you are going to put this drivel in your game then lets see a Nord who plays bottom to an Argonian.
Otherwise more female/female relationships if you please.
At least that is sexy.
The lesbian one in Hollow city was a Kahjiit that fell in love with an elf I think it was.0 -
Absinthe✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »Quite the silly conversation.
Plenty of interracial relationships, plenty of male/male relationships...
What bothers me is that most of the male/male relationships occur between npc's of relatively the same race. If you are going to put this drivel in your game then lets see a Nord who plays bottom to an Argonian.
Otherwise more female/female relationships if you please.
At least that is sexy.
The lesbian one in Hollow city was a Kahjiit that fell in love with an elf I think it was.
A kitty who loved another kitty. Should be a lore book about that one somewhere.
*Edited: Removed a filtered word*
Edited by ZOS_LenaicR on 15 May 2014 13:500 -
liquid_wolf wrote: »My favorite quest in the game so far involved a fiance returning back to find his family/farm/love under attack by daedric forces.
You help him out, save his love, and the servants. He asks you if he should leave to become stronger so he too can protect his family.
I said yes.
Turns out the love and one of the female servants had been engaging in a kind of affair while the male was away on business, and the servant was wondering if she was interfering. She asked if she should leave.
I told the servant to stay.
Whoops. Ah well.
Never did talk to the love until after this was all played out, so didn't get to see her side of things before I made those decision.
Very memorable though.
Thanks, Zenimax.
Ahahaha. This was the first LBGT quest I came across. I chose the same thing. The orc scared me she was so butch! I thought for sure she would go Aileen Wuornos on the family if I chose otherwise.
I haven't seen any male couples yet. Boo.
Edited by NuclearSqworms on 12 May 2014 15:420 -
Allyah✭✭✭
Sure enough but since it was your word, I don't feel called upon to defend it. You said "You don't have to react to be intolerant. It is a state of being." When I pointed out the silliness of such an "argument" you just decided to move the goalposts with this hair-splitting "definition of blatant" nonsense while completely ignoring the substance of my response. Antics such as this have convinced me me that you are not arguing in good faith.Blatant: done openly and unashamedly
Overt: done or shown openly; plainly or readily apparent, not secret or hidden.
Difference in words makes a difference.
One does not have to act towards something to be intolerant towards something. This is very easy to comprehend. That you continue on with this despite it making perfect sense makes me believe you are not arguing in good faith. Or that you are so biased towards disliking me or my opinion that you refuse to really pay attention to what I wrote.You don't have to react to be intolerant. It is a state of being.
Intolerant: Not tolerant of views, beliefs, or behavior that differ from one's own.
In other words, you had the information, but you had not given it to me. That makes it a little difficult for you to successfully claim that you have refuted anything. Refutation requires an action from the subject of the verb. In this case, that was you. Also, giving someone the name of two websites is not equivalent to giving proof. That's giving someone resources.
I don't need to do anything to refute your claims, the World Economic Forum's Global Gender Gap Reports and the UN's Human Development Reports have already done the work for me. That's the point, really; this information is not obscure or difficult to access.Oh, look. Still assuming. You're leaving out a good deal of options there, Nathair. And you have not successfully refuted anything.
Seriously, stop quoting the dictionary.Refute: prove (a statement or theory) to be wrong or false; disprove.
I'll promise not to quote the dictionary to you when you start using your words correctly and when you stop twisting mine to fit what you want them to mean. If you'd like to go back several pages to my original post and actually prove them wrong with actually information, I'm more than willing to respond to that. Otherwise, happy trolling.0 -
Sure enough but since it was your word, I don't feel called upon to defend it. You said "You don't have to react to be intolerant. It is a state of being." When I pointed out the silliness of such an "argument" you just decided to move the goalposts with this hair-splitting "definition of blatant" nonsense while completely ignoring the substance of my response. Antics such as this have convinced me me that you are not arguing in good faith.Blatant: done openly and unashamedly
Overt: done or shown openly; plainly or readily apparent, not secret or hidden.
Difference in words makes a difference.
One does not have to act towards something to be intolerant towards something. This is very easy to comprehend. That you continue on with this despite it making perfect sense makes me believe you are not arguing in good faith. Or that you are so biased towards disliking me or my opinion that you refuse to really pay attention to what I wrote.You don't have to react to be intolerant. It is a state of being.
Intolerant: Not tolerant of views, beliefs, or behavior that differ from one's own.
In other words, you had the information, but you had not given it to me. That makes it a little difficult for you to successfully claim that you have refuted anything. Refutation requires an action from the subject of the verb. In this case, that was you. Also, giving someone the name of two websites is not equivalent to giving proof. That's giving someone resources.
I don't need to do anything to refute your claims, the World Economic Forum's Global Gender Gap Reports and the UN's Human Development Reports have already done the work for me. That's the point, really; this information is not obscure or difficult to access.Oh, look. Still assuming. You're leaving out a good deal of options there, Nathair. And you have not successfully refuted anything.
Seriously, stop quoting the dictionary.Refute: prove (a statement or theory) to be wrong or false; disprove.
I'll promise not to quote the dictionary to you when you start using your words correctly and when you stop twisting mine to fit what you want them to mean. If you'd like to go back several pages to my original post and actually prove them wrong with actually information, I'm more than willing to respond to that. Otherwise, happy trolling.
So when are you going to post a good LGBT quest?0 -
Allyah✭✭✭
Probably when I start caring about my NPC's sexual preferences.NuclearSqworms wrote: »So when are you going to post a good LGBT quest?0 -
Allyah✭✭✭
Really? 'Cause there seem to be other people discussing this in this thread, as well, bud. Someone quoted me and asked me to explain myself several times. I hope it's okay with you that I answered.NuclearSqworms wrote: »I think you're in the wrong thread then, bud.0 -
Nathair✭✭✭
Which brings us, once again, to the point I made earlier. You are free to fantasize that some or all of the citizens of Tamriel are super-double-secretly opposed to same sex relationships even though they do absolutely nothing to show it but so what?One does not have to act towards something to be intolerant towards something.
When something is going on that you personally find objectionable and you say nothing, do nothing, but just stand quietly by and tolerate it that is not intolerance.
Protip: When you find that, in order to support your argument, you have actually redefined tolerance and intolerance into synonyms, it's probably time to take a step back and examine your underlying position.
Actually, what I said was that your assertion is easy to refute. It is. You claimed that "Tamriel men and women seem to be no more advanced in gender equality than we are in this world." Men and women in Tamriel seem to be absolutely equal in terms of opportunity etc. Women are commonly military commanders, blacksmiths, pirate captains, guild leaders, priests etc. On the other hand, as the Gender Gap Reports and Human Development Reports make painfully clear, not even the most egalitarian of nations can boast true gender equality and the global average falls far, far below those top rated nations. So, what you asserted is simply unsupported.In other words, you had the information, but you had not given it to me. That makes it a little difficult for you to successfully claim that you have refuted anything. If you'd like to go back several pages to my original post and actually prove them wrong with actually information, I'm more than willing to respond to that.To, Too, Two. - There, Their, They're. - Were, We're, Where. - Your, You're. - Then, Than.
Homophones, not synonyms.5 -
Milanna✭✭✭patrick.loiselleb16_ESO wrote: »Those of us who have played Bethesda games before know that they are allies. They always include gay people and gay relationships. They are a part of society (want to or not) and Bethesda seems to have agreed a long time ago that they would be part of their online societies as well. So personally, I'm not shocked to find them in this game as well. I do give them a kudos for their humanitarian approach but here's what I want to stress even more: the way that it's done isn't forced. Some games have gay characters but it's so out there and they make such a huge deal about the character's sexual orientation that it isn't natural. They use it to either please or appease or...and it may work with a certain crowd but I don't like my sexual orientation to be used or abused for profit. Bethesda has never done this. It seems to me that this was made very clear to Zeni as well. So Beth and Zeni, thank you for including us but not making us a selling point or some freak show. We're just a well integrated part of the game and I appreciate it a lot!
Well, the same thing is true for feminism is this game I am afraid.
A guard captain or something of the kind tells the Queen of the Aldmeri Dominion that she can of course make her own decisions, she is a strong woman, he is just looking out for her (so he really isn´t sure she can handle her self). As a female and a feminist I feel it´s a bit over the top.
However, subtlety may not get the point across. Just following zone chat from time to time tells me there are a [snip] of intolerant players out there.
I really hope they are not doing it simply to win points in tolerance.Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on 18 May 2014 20:42EU-server
Mila the True (Aldmeri Dominion)
Milanna the Cold-hearted (Aldmeri Dominion)
Raphael the Cunning (Ebonheart Pact)
NA-server
Cassius Tanicius (Daggerfall Covenant)
I just found garlic, you blood-suckers better stay clear0 -
Singular✭✭✭✭Singular wrote:in fact, Ford and Beach published a cross cultural study in 1951 showing that 2/3rds of all cultures on the planet accepted same sex sexual behavior as normal and only 1/3rd were hostile to it.
I really doubt they were right. If they were, why is it that homosexuality is legal only in Europe and former colonies, in 2014? And even in these lands, there are lots of homophobic people.
And if the study was about 1951 in particular, the world was already much more civilised than Tamriel.
Of course you are going to disregard the findings of social scientists - you have an encultured bias here.
Uhm...homosexuality is legal in all kinds of places, not just Europe and it's former colonies. It's basically only illegal in Islamic nations for religious reasons (stupid religious reason). In Canada and a bunch of different countries, same sex partners can legally marry now (look it up).
Anyways, the Ford and Beach article analyzes cultures not countries. Those are different things. As for countries, here's a BBC map:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-25927595War, give me war, give me war.1 -
Singular✭✭✭✭Quite the silly conversation.
Plenty of interracial relationships, plenty of male/male relationships...
What bothers me is that most of the male/male relationships occur between npc's of relatively the same race. If you are going to put this drivel in your game then lets see a Nord who plays bottom to an Argonian.
Otherwise more female/female relationships if you please.
At least that is sexy.
Totally.War, give me war, give me war.0 -
Singular✭✭✭✭
Probably when I start caring about my NPC's sexual preferences.NuclearSqworms wrote: »So when are you going to post a good LGBT quest?
Uhm...if you don't care about their sexual preferences, why is it immersion breaking for you?
Lots of cultures around the world don't even see homosexual sex as sex. They see it as a kind of play behavior. For example, I interviewed a number of "gei" men in Japan. One in particular had a father who wanted him to get married - his father kept saying "it's just a phase. You're just wasting time." etc., b/c he couldn't see male-male sexual behavior as more than just play. That sentiment, in Japan, harkens back to a pre-Meiji time when same sex relationships were pretty common.War, give me war, give me war.3 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have met a one man saying his husband is missing. Investigation showed that he was infected with lycantropy and ran away, and I had the option to keep him alive or to sacrifice him due to his... "illness". I'm not vampire, but have chosen the second, so probably I am a homophobic "hate"-speaker now as well.
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Elirienne✭✭✭✭As someone pointed it out earlier, what bothers me is that the game does it BEAUTIFULLY - not drawing attention to the fact that it's a same sex relationship, handling it completely naturally. BUT we, the people, talk about it and make it a big deal - and that is exactly what it should not be. Because it is not. And by making it into a big deal (even a positive big deal), we are working towards exclusion and intolerance.
Just like those stupid "gay parades". All it's doing is giving ammunition to haters to separate and exclude. Who hasn't heard the age-old: "If gay is natural, why do we need parades for it? If gay is normal, why do we do parades for it?" We don't do parades for heterosexuals. If we all believe that a same sex relationship is not a big deal, why are we talking about it as if it isn't, why are we giving it, well, for lack of a better word, "positive discrimination? Noone is talking about "Oh look, there's a hetero quest, wow, a man trying to find his wife, well done TESO for catering for heterosexual players".
Even though you are positive about it, this is not helping the issue. It's hindering it. The game did it perfectly, smoothly, naturally, "it's no big deal, it's part of life".3 -
Allyah✭✭✭@Elirienne
I cringe a little on the inside every time I hear the phrase "gay pride" for this reason.
Why do people feel pride for their sexual orientation?
Can anyone imagine someone having a "straight" parade or going up to someone and saying "Straight pride!"? I hope it sounds as ridiculous to anyone reading this as it does to me.3 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If. And many don't. People just have issues handling something that is different from themselves - it's not just heterosex/homosex, male/female, black/white, skinny/fat. And it makes my panda sad.If we all believe that a same sex relationship is not a big deal, why are we talking about it as if it isn't
This reminds me of one court case. A man was sued because of "sexual orientation abuse-talk". He openly claimed he doesn't like gays and it is his right constitutional to like/dislike something and share his subjective opinion basing on freedom of speech. He won.
I also think he should win. Not because he was right or wrong, but that the whole thing should have never been a cause.Edited by F7sus4 on 23 May 2014 15:391 -
Elirienne✭✭✭✭@Elirienne
I cringe a little on the inside every time I hear the phrase "gay pride" for this reason.
Why do people feel pride for their sexual orientation?
Can anyone imagine someone having a "straight" parade or going up to someone and saying "Straight pride!"? I hope it sounds as ridiculous to anyone reading this as it does to me.
@Allyah completely agree. The word "pride" is greatly overused anyhow, but that's a separate discussion... "Oh we won gold in the olympics, I am so proud to be english" - Err why the *** are you PROUD to happen to have been born in the same country as the gold medal winner, along with about 100 MILLION other people????
You can be happy for her, excited for her, but you can only be proud of something that is an achievement and you had a clear contribution to it. HEr mother can be proud of her. Her coach. Her partner. but not you, average english joe... ppfffh...
So yes, how can you be proud of your sexual orientation? It just *is*. The same thing with race, as well. How can someone be proud of being white? Or proud of being black? It's not your achievement that you are of a certain colour. Be proud of finishing college, or running a marathon, or cleaning the living room, or making a nice cake, as it's something YOU'VE done, and you *achieved*.
*calms herself down*
Ehm. What I was trying to say, is that I agree with you
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Elirienne✭✭✭✭
If. And many don't. People just have issues handling something that is different from themselves - it's not just heterosex/homosex, male/female, black/white, skinny/fat. And it makes my panda sad.If we all believe that a same sex relationship is not a big deal, why are we talking about it as if it isn't
This reminds me of one court case. A man was sued because of "sexual orientation abuse-talk". He openly claimed he doesn't like gays and it is his right constitutional to like/dislike something and share his subjective opinion basing on freedom of speech. He won.
I also think he should win. Not because he was right or wrong, but that the whole thing should have never been a cause.
Completely agree with your last point.1 -
Allyah✭✭✭@Elirienne
I'd give you a cookie to help the calmness but nobody likes virtual cookies. o.o1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Elirienne
I cringe a little on the inside every time I hear the phrase "gay pride" for this reason.
Why do people feel pride for their sexual orientation?
Can anyone imagine someone having a "straight" parade or going up to someone and saying "Straight pride!"? I hope it sounds as ridiculous to anyone reading this as it does to me.
@Allyah completely agree. The word "pride" is greatly overused anyhow, but that's a separate discussion... "Oh we won gold in the olympics, I am so proud to be english" - Err why the *** are you PROUD to happen to have been born in the same country as the gold medal winner, along with about 100 MILLION other people????
You can be happy for her, excited for her, but you can only be proud of something that is an achievement and you had a clear contribution to it. HEr mother can be proud of her. Her coach. Her partner. but not you, average english joe... ppfffh...
So yes, how can you be proud of your sexual orientation? It just *is*. The same thing with race, as well. How can someone be proud of being white? Or proud of being black? It's not your achievement that you are of a certain colour. Be proud of finishing college, or running a marathon, or cleaning the living room, or making a nice cake, as it's something YOU'VE done, and you *achieved*.
*calms herself down*
Ehm. What I was trying to say, is that I agree with you
I agree with you both that having pride over something like your sexual orientation is silly.
But I don't think it's really pride their after. It's acceptance. The same way certain races tend to feel proud about their skin color after years of discrimination. So I would ask you to view it in that light.
So when you see a gay pride parade look at it instead as them saying we are longer ashamed to be who we are rather than them saying they are proud to be gay. Because I think that's really what it's all about.Edited by Jeremy on 23 May 2014 15:332 -
Elirienne✭✭✭✭@Elirienne
I'd give you a cookie to help the calmness but nobody likes virtual cookies. o.o
@Allyah - I do. A cookie is a cookie
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F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This discussion will eventually fall into double-standards talk. Just waiting for a person to pop-up with: "Go out and shout holding a transparent that you're pride of being white heterosexual man and see what happens." etc.So when you see a gay pride parade look at it instead as them saying we are longer ashamed to be who we are rather than them saying they are proud to be gay. Because I think that's really what it's all about.
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Many people are downplaying the significance of being visible, or being able to be visible in regards to homosexuality. This is horrible. Worldwide homosexual people are still being murdered, executed and repressed. Homosexual women in Africa are *** into submission and are usually *** so badly they die. This is not yesterday - this still makes international news today. Many countries in the Middle East and Africa allow the death penalty to people who partake in homosexual acts. Russia just made it a crime to be openly homosexual. What a step backwards.
Part of being visible is making it known this is a human issue. Being visible also means that it gives people who are being oppressed hope, being a voice for those who are silenced, or dead.
The fact that some people are proud they survived oppression, which has still not ended in the United States, should not be an issue that people come to a video game forum to belittle. Thousands of couples were and still are repressed under the current and recent laws of the US government. When DOMA was overturned, couples who had been together for 30+ years finally got the same legal rights as other couples in the United States. If they want to be proud of that - like the fact they can enter the emergency room with their spouse, or leave things in their will to their spouse, or sponsor citizenship for their spouse - they should be able to be proud of that and have any kind of party/celebration/parade they want.
The fact that the thread has been derailed and mocked is fact enough to show the kind of oppression that still exists.3 -
ZOS_JanS✭✭✭✭Greetings everyone!
This is a very interesting and multilayered discussion, but we need to ask you to focus on the elements regarding the world of The Elder Scrolls Online as we don't feel these forums are the right place to discuss real-life politics. We'd hate to have to close this thread for being off-topic, so please go back to discussing in-game quests and events.3 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭Using hate/aggression to fight against hate/aggression is a hypocrisy. And this topic is intended to express (hopefully positive) feelings... about the game!
I could say more: If you're up to fighting for equal human rights - stop buying chinese products, since China is abusing their citizens. Would you do that? And why not? Because it would be uneasy to avoid? But it would be fair. So choosing to defend a religious/sexual/racial minority just because it is easy is a hypocrisy as well.
Please read until the end: The latest scientific statements have other claims on the homosexuality. You're born with your race. Your sexuality, however, is developed during your life, starting in your childhood. Since sexual drive is evolutional mechanism for maintenance of the species, if it's oriented against its prime role (which is giving offspring), then "something went wrong". But since evolution is still considered "just a theory" in many US states, we cannot resolve the matter on scientific field. We can't resolve this matter on personal field as well, since there are so many countries that are still against gay-laws. This is not just US forum. There are many people from other regions of the world, including me (EU). So arguing about it won't do the thing. We won't create a friendly place for anyone doing so.
So leaving the science, but just perceiving it as a living being - if it's not a harm to anyone, why would it be a concern of everyone? Why to judge? Both - the interested, and the uninterested. This is not only just the science-and-cell stuff, this is social-purpose stuff as well. What is the most important is to be and remain a human. Just that. Or at least that.
Please do not spread hate. Please do kick some mobs in ESO.Edited by F7sus4 on 23 May 2014 17:300 -
Allyah✭✭✭
No one is downplaying anything. No one is belittling anything. People are just mentioning how ridiculous it is to say "Hey! I survived despite my minority sexual orientation." Everyone grows up having to survive various things. Some more than others.NuclearSqworms wrote: »Many people are downplaying the significance of being visible, or being able to be visible in regards to homosexuality. This is horrible. Worldwide homosexual people are still being murdered, executed and repressed. Homosexual women in Africa are *** into submission and are usually *** so badly they die. This is not yesterday - this still makes international news today. Many countries in the Middle East and Africa allow the death penalty to people who partake in homosexual acts. Russia just made it a crime to be openly homosexual. What a step backwards.
Part of being visible is making it known this is a human issue. Being visible also means that it gives people who are being oppressed hope, being a voice for those who are silenced, or dead.
The fact that some people are proud they survived oppression, which has still not ended in the United States, should not be an issue that people come to a video game forum to belittle. Thousands of couples were and still are repressed under the current and recent laws of the US government. When DOMA was overturned, couples who had been together for 30+ years finally got the same legal rights as other couples in the United States. If they want to be proud of that - like the fact they can enter the emergency room with their spouse, or leave things in their will to their spouse, or sponsor citizenship for their spouse - they should be able to be proud of that and have any kind of party/celebration/parade they want.
The fact that the thread has been derailed and mocked is fact enough to show the kind of oppression that still exists.
Sure, people can throw parties or parades for anything they like. Doesn't mean it's not ridiculous. I don't understand people's need for recognition for surviving. Seems like it would be in everyone's best interest to do what they can to survive without asking everyone around them to acknowledge that they went through stuff to get where they are today.
This thread has not been mocked. And the reason for it being derailed you can read in my response to the admin.
This thread should have been closed a long time ago. A person called foul on the Heterosexual Quest thread and that was closed down immediately. Several people have asked for this thread to be closed because of it's nature and despite several warnings to stay on topic, the thread still remains. Nice double standard there.Greetings everyone!
This is a very interesting and multilayered discussion, but we need to ask you to focus on the elements regarding the world of The Elder Scrolls Online as we don't feel these forums are the right place to discuss real-life politics. We'd hate to have to close this thread for being off-topic, so please go back to discussing in-game quests and events.
I wish there was a way to literally kick mobs in ESO. That would be awesome.[...]Please do kick some mobs in ESO.2
This discussion has been closed.