Rapid gear decay

starkerealm

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO wrote: »

I rely mostly on my shield to get me through... Well I usualy open up with a Snipe from a bow to draw the mobs to me, then I switch to shield... It could be that blocking attacks stops your armor from getting damaged... (the damage being primarily on your shield and not on all of your armor pieces instead)

If so, that would indeed put people that aren't going 1 handed / shield at a serious disadvantage.

Tomorrow, I'll try playing with my bow only and see if my repair bills go up... /film at 11

Might be worth grabbing Durameter to track this. It's kinda ugly, but it is useful as a diagnostic tool. Also, it might be worth seeing if your shield degenerates from combat while it's not active. If you're not affected at all, it'd be great to be able to figure out what exactly is triggering this.

ashenb14_ESO

daemonios wrote: »

As far as gold sinks go, this is EVEN MORE ludicrous than the 25% tax on guild store sales. I mean, this is a 100%+ tax on your questing income! Surely this can't be working as intended?

I craft all my own gear and use multiple sets. I used to repair every time I went into town, but recently stopped doing so because of the cost. Maybe now I'll actually make some money to get some more bank and bag slots.

Unless someone is role-playing as a mob punching bag, repair costs should never be more than can reasonably be earned by playing. Otherwise, I predict people will be stripping off their gear and doing like those annoying bots, going to low-level areas in search of trash loot to sell.

some people seem to like this, just as some think the guild stores are bad and it should all be handled by 3rd party sites and yelling in zone.....

personally, i think a faction wide or world wide store/exchange/ah with a more reasonable fee would be better, as it stands i dont sell anything on the guild stores because, honestly the cut taken is to high, i cant make a profit crafting and selling gear that way, so i just sell to people i know to cover costs and hope they eventually fix it...that or i find a good 3rd party site that has a booming exchange where people can make deals and just trade or mail money/items back and forth(no cod, fees are to high on cod same as guild store)

i get that some people think its just wonderful to have tons of very very very high end gold sinks in a game, most of us dont.......

the games full of sinks, tons and tons of sinks, they need toned down if you ask many of us, those who dont in my exp tend to be the kind who dont want others to have as much gold as they do....

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO

starkerealm wrote: »

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO wrote: »

I rely mostly on my shield to get me through... Well I usualy open up with a Snipe from a bow to draw the mobs to me, then I switch to shield... It could be that blocking attacks stops your armor from getting damaged... (the damage being primarily on your shield and not on all of your armor pieces instead)

If so, that would indeed put people that aren't going 1 handed / shield at a serious disadvantage.

Tomorrow, I'll try playing with my bow only and see if my repair bills go up... /film at 11

Might be worth grabbing Durameter to track this. It's kinda ugly, but it is useful as a diagnostic tool. Also, it might be worth seeing if your shield degenerates from combat while it's not active. If you're not affected at all, it'd be great to be able to figure out what exactly is triggering this.

Okies, Durameter is installed and ready to test... I'll play 30 minutes with a bow and 30 with my shield on the same mobs and same location tomorrow...

ashenb14_ESO

Cernow wrote: »

Was just on my Level 10 Templar, equipped in a mix of green level 9 and 10 drops and one white level 8 crafted. Fully repaired. One Dolmen, one death (I tanked and took one for the team right at the end). 73g repair bill, from approx 10 minutes of playing at level 10. Punished for playing. Makes you want to avoid combat, avoid tanking and avoid taking any risks. In a combat-oriented game this is beyond stupid. Next time I either go naked with a bow or I stay away.

even killing drops my dura, 1 hitting stuff way below my level or close to my level, all of it(other then lvl1 animals) drops my dura...its crazy.

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO

Well.... after a quick test ....

- 15 min pulling and Blocking (constantly) : 36 gold repair

Mostly my shield that got damaged and my helmet went down 1% and legs 2%. They went down when I actualy missed a block while left click attacking with my sword

- 15 min pulling with Bow (no shield used) : 362 gold repair

All of my armor pieces went down in durability, even my shield that I wasn't using

So I do think a shield actualy concentrates the damage on your shield, hence only 1 item goes down significantly in durability... hence lower costs

Guldendraak

I love how people who aren't experiencing the issue just write if off as "not existing or people experiencing it, don't know how to play".. Next they'll say the Moon Landings never happened as they weren't there to experience it. Like many ESO bugs, it only seems to affect some people and ZOS only start to look into it when those affected start to get angry - much like the Bank Slot Trashing bug saga.

Some response from ZOS about this would be appreciated to explain the game mechanics.
Does Heavy armour have a higher repair cost than light armour? And if so, are people who use Heavy armour being penalised for their choice of gear?
Does the quality of your gear affect the final repair cost?
Are we supposed to take 1% durability loss per mob we kill?
Why does the unused off-hand shield (say when only using a bow, 2h or similiar - with the shield never actually being used) also take durability loss?

It seems extreme that you can go from 100% durability to 0 in a couple of hours of game time (with only 1 or 2 deaths - for the record, I just installed Durameter myself and the game was penalising me 2% durability for a death) with a 2k+ repair bill when all your gear (including the unused off-hand shield) hit 0 durability.

Here's an another example.. go to town and whilst there, repair all my gear to 100%. Leave town and use a wayshrine and after the loading screen, durameter tells me I'm at 97% durability. Check my gear and yep, my pauldrons have taken damage. I haven't been in combat, haven't died.. yet my shoulders have taken dmg.

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO

Guldendraak wrote: »

Does Heavy armour have a higher repair cost than light armour? And if so, are people who use Heavy armour being penalised for their choice of gear?

From testing, and responses from other on here... I doubt it...

Does the quality of your gear affect the final repair cost?

I did notice my blue gear dropped off slower then my green... so might be

Are we supposed to take 1% durability loss per mob we kill?

Nope, there was no 1% durability loss per kill for me... neither with my shield test nor my bow test

Why does the unused off-hand shield (say when only using a bow, 2h or similiar - with the shield never actually being used) also take durability loss?

I think it calculates the damage over "all" the armor if the attack is not blocked... when blocking it was noticably that only my shield went down fast... (and 2 pieces on the occasions I didn't block... but that was my clumsiness )

Cernow

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO wrote: »

Well.... after a quick test ....

- 15 min pulling and Blocking (constantly) : 36 gold repair

Mostly my shield that got damaged and my helmet went down 1% and legs 2%. They went down when I actualy missed a block while left click attacking with my sword

- 15 min pulling with Bow (no shield used) : 362 gold repair

All of my armor pieces went down in durability, even my shield that I wasn't using

So I do think a shield actualy concentrates the damage on your shield, hence only 1 item goes down significantly in durability... hence lower costs

Interesting test. However, did you kill as many mobs and gain as many xps with the shield as you did with the bow?

It seems to be the case that gear decay is linked to xp gain rather than amount of hits you take. This is why you can still take a heavy durability loss even if you kill mobs without them damaging you, for example if you can kill them while stunlocked or knocked down (for melee) or before they reach you (ranged).

In my experiments I've found that for equal level mobs 1 kill = 1 point of durability lost, on average. This tends to hold true regardless of weapon used / method of killing and how clean or messy the kills.

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO

Nope, didn't notice that... I fought mobs my own level... but both my 1handed / Shield and Bow are capped at 50 now. I killed the exact same number and type of VR2 mobs (same spawn spot)

With the Durameter addon, I could see which armor pieces were taking the hits on durability and it "was" noticable that while constantly blocking only my shield was going down...

starkerealm

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO wrote: »

Guldendraak wrote: »

Are we supposed to take 1% durability loss per mob we kill?

Nope, there was no 1% durability loss per kill for me... neither with my shield test nor my bow test

My earlier tests with a bow gave me roughly 1% durability loss per 4 enemies dealt with. Interestingly, this was at level 10, and gave me a repair cost similar to Stefaan's. Obviously, I couldn't test that with a shield equipped on that character. Though it was over 30m and not simply dealing with the same set of mobs.

traigusb14_ESO2

I think blocking does focus it (but I think it is a different issue), and I oftren block even regular non-heavy attacks. My temp is sword and board, but I also block a ton with my sorc as well and don't get hit as bad for repairs (my staves do get banged up though). I don't have and 2H or DW chars to test blocking / not blocking with.

I'd write it all off as lern 2 blk even my comparison with my friend (who I just asked and doesn't hardly ever block.) and maybe even unblocked mob crits, but as I noted in an earlier post, I have seen a 7/35 damaged staff slowly tick itself to death in town with "your gear has been damaged" messages... not to mention people getting decay on 1 hit kills.

What I'm afraid of is there may be 3-4 different ways to get decay and they are not playing nice with each other.

stefaan.de.wasch1b16_ESO

My Durameter didn't go down in towns, granted... I wasn't in town for a long time... I have a ton of crafting to do... so I'll check if it goes down at the forge (if and) when I wake up...

starkerealm

The weird thing about the staff is that, normally, weapons don't take damage. I don't use staffs enough to know if they're simply subject to that, but I wonder if the damage over time is separate issue.

I haven't noticed gear degenerating simply from standing around, even with durameter running, but I could have just been lucky in that regard.

SinisterJoint

Logged on, all was well. Was doing some banking and mat refining. All of a sudden message pops up "Your gear is damaged"

There is something wrong

traigusb14_ESO2

starkerealm wrote: »

The weird thing about the staff is that, normally, weapons don't take damage. I don't use staffs enough to know if they're simply subject to that, but I wonder if the damage over time is separate issue.

I haven't noticed gear degenerating simply from standing around, even with durameter running, but I could have just been lucky in that regard.

Not sure what you mean here. My weapons take damage all the time. I was just wondering if my staff took more damage because I blocked a lot, because my shield seems to... and my staves tend to wear more than my other equpment... but that could come from attacks.


Yeah, the staff blowing up was a special case. I was just standing in town chatting when it started to go. It was at 7/35 and I came back to town, but hung out for maybe 10 mins... THEN it started to decay. I noticed because of the noise that the pop up in the corner made.

Maybe there is a class active/passive that is damaging gear in non-PVP adn we agre getting hit by standing near other players wwith that skill?

---

Here is what I have learned so far... of course Devs may correct any of this whenever they wish.

Things we know cause decay:

-Death


Things that may cause decay:

-Blocking
-Attacking
-Getting hit
-passage of time
-XP gain

Things we know can affect decay:

-Zone you are in (1.1 notes say they are turning it down in some group areas)

Things we think may affect decay/ costs:

-Level of mobs vs. our level.
-Crafted tier of gear
-Existing damage (easier to damage already damaged stuff).
-Being in combat (ranged players getting decay without being hit).

starkerealm

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

The weird thing about the staff is that, normally, weapons don't take damage. I don't use staffs enough to know if they're simply subject to that, but I wonder if the damage over time is separate issue.

I haven't noticed gear degenerating simply from standing around, even with durameter running, but I could have just been lucky in that regard.

Not sure what you mean here. My weapons take damage all the time. I was just wondering if my staff took more damage because I blocked a lot, because my shield seems to... and my staves tend to wear more than my other equpment... but that could come from attacks.

I just fired up the game to test, because I thought, maybe my memory was messing with me, but, no. I've never seen a weapon taking damage in game.

I don't know if that's somehow indicative of the rapid degradation bug, or if that's normal behavior, though. I've seen my shields take damage, but nothing else in a weapon slot that I can remember.

Majic

Weapons don't take damage.

Enchanted weapons do, however, use charges, and the indicator for that looks the same as the durability bar for armor.

starkerealm

Majic wrote: »

Weapons don't take damage.

Enchanted weapons do, however, use charges, and the indicator for that looks the same as the durability bar for armor.

Except, of course, for the time when traigusb's staff exploded... which is why I think that might be a separate, but maybe a related issue.

Stormbow

I just experienced this for the first time tonight. I began my day's play by dumping junk from the previous day in the bank, crafting, etc. When I sell off the last of what's going to be sold, I repair and ... WTH?!?! ... every single item was very, very heavily damaged from a few hours running around showing someone where skyshards were the previous day.

Totally robbed.

Keyesty

Did my own test yesterday, because I have had one suspicion. Which is - your gear decay based on time spent "in combat" and how you get that flag doesn't matter.

Starting info:
- Me (Sorc) and my friend (DK) entered Goblin Ruins Delve in Stormhaven.
- Both of us in freshly crafted 100% durability gear (lvl 20 tier). Some greens, some whites.
- Mobs here are level 18.
- Both of us level 21 characters.
- We are grouped together.
- I am using healing staff, my friend sword and board.
- I wear full light armour, my friend full heavy.
Testing method:
- My friend going in to fight and kill mobs.
- I am running way behind, doing nothing (not attacking or being attacked), except looting (because we are grouped I get loot for all mobs my friend kill). I do put healing ward buff at him in between combat.
- Since we are grouped, each time he enter fight, my character also go into "in combat" mode.
Results:
- After about 20 minutes and about 15-20 groups of mobs (one group here consist of 4-5 mobs) my pants and chest where at 0 durability, rest of gear at 15-30 range.
- My friend's gear were mostly undamaged (~70%) except for shield at 35%
- I never tested how much repair will cost as we just re-craft it.

Take that test as you wish.

Personally, I think it is stupid if intended, or must be fixed if bugged. Either way it is not working as one would logically expect.

starkerealm

Keyesty wrote: »

Take that test as you wish.

Personally, I think it is stupid if intended, or must be fixed if bugged. Either way it is not working as one would logically expect.

That... actually explains the people who're reporting item deterioration in towns and the like. If they still have the combat flag up, they'd still be taking damage. It also explains why one shotting things reduces items, since you remain in combat for a few seconds even after everything is dead.

I wonder if it's the same for the people who aren't experiencing this.

ttwinklerub17_ESO

OK I checked today

my gear 100% good - no decay over night
so I went out for 2 hrs do resource farming - going place to place -no single route - kill everything I see - get as many leather as I can
(while managing to report bots too)

and trying to drag a mob of monster over to kill the bots(taking lots of hits)

and no I don't wear leather right now Im mostly in heavy armor

I hit a number of merchants alone the way to sell loot so I can carry more... as I loot everything
check armor - no damage
continued along for awhile longer till I had no room left - the reason Im farming need more bag space/bank space

go back into town -refine,store and sell stuff
check armor not even a scratch

going out for second round
I will edit and update

---

second round

decided to take on some bosses
died twice on both
damage 60gp for each repair after dying twice

after that decide to forage resources and kill anything in my path and report some bots again
(silly me I let my self get bashed on thru the entire reporting procedure for quite awhile)

report after getting back into town - no damage

traigusb14_ESO2

Wow, no damage even when you block?

I distinctly remember that staff being 7/35 though when it blew up that day.

The other day when you asked for my repair % I had a damaged axe. it was more damaged than my belt.

I could swear I regularly take staff damage with my sorc. ... and have broken staves (had to use my backup) at least once in my teens.

Now i'm going to pay more attention to weapons.

starkerealm

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

Wow, no damage even when you block?

I distinctly remember that staff being 7/35 though when it blew up that day.

The other day when you asked for my repair % I had a damaged axe. it was more damaged than my belt.

I could swear I regularly take staff damage with my sorc. ... and have broken staves (had to use my backup) at least once in my teens.

Now i'm going to pay more attention to weapons.

Yeah, none. The closest I've seen is the enchantment bar dropping. When you mentioned it with the staff the first time, it didn't register for me. Now, I've completely burned through enchantments a couple times, and it shows up the same place on the UI as the condition bar for armor. (They're slightly different colors.) But, enchantments won't give you a value reduction the way damage to armor will.

You really need to /bug that.

traigusb14_ESO2

Been trying to reproduce weapon damage (or at least cause value loss.) letting mobs beat on me and hit me with spells in Eastmarch

No luck so for, now that I am watching it.

around 45 mins . gear repair cost 506 gp.

Only 2 deaths. Both on dragonmound.

Going to wander around some more, and see if I can break anything,

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey there, everyone. We're looking into this now, and will let you know if this system is working as designed as soon as we can. Thanks!

Mephane

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey there, everyone. We're looking into this now, and will let you know if this system is working as designed as soon as we can. Thanks!

How I love corporate speak (nothing against you in person, you are probably required to formulate it that way). We as players care little whether it works as designed. What we have been saying for pages is that the way items actually decay is too high; by a factor of 5-10 is my personal estimate from experience of how fast items get damaged in other MMOs. If that is by design, then we ask for the design itself to be modified.

Jirki88

Mephane wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey there, everyone. We're looking into this now, and will let you know if this system is working as designed as soon as we can. Thanks!

How I love corporate speak (nothing against you in person, you are probably required to formulate it that way). We as players care little whether it works as designed. What we have been saying for pages is that the way items actually decay is too high; by a factor of 5-10 is my personal estimate from experience of how fast items get damaged in other MMOs. If that is by design, then we ask for the design itself to be modified.

Actually, you're wrong there. As a player I care whether it works as designed or not - if it don't, it's a bug and it should get fixed - if does, it's a sign of utter moronism among people who make decisions. So, yeah...

Darzil

My gut feeling is that it'll be a little of each. The reported issue where two people can go out, fight the same monsters and quests together and one have 4x the decay clearly indicates a problem. However, the fact that repair costs are high may be by design, although it is a design which makes it offputting to play the game for some.

Generally repair gold sinks work best at high levels, on the best items, rather than at low levels on rubbish items. Recrafting your kit every 2 hours isn't really a fun mechanic, but it is cost effective. It's like returning to town every 30 mins to sort inventory isn't a fun mechanic either (hopefully it'll be better when I can afford a few inventory upgrades, but repair costs stop that at present). Maybe I'd have felt differently if I'd bought the Imperial Edition so I wasn't trying to save for a horse also, having spent on 1 inventory and 1 bank upgrade, on my crafter I can nearly afford the basic horse at level 30 (as he deconstructs the items for craft xp).

Asava

Thanks for looking into it!! I'm about to die a shock. A forum post about an issue was answered by a ZOS employee.....