Don't mess with bolt escape or any skill balance bc 1 guild is crying

Atropos

Deadmedic wrote: »

They're a bunch of elitists from GW2 that can't seem to wrap their head around the ESO game design.

This is my favorite quote. Thanks for the laugh.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Kodiak wrote: »

Horses OP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrz4xExzNRY

Nerf Horses.

Based off this video I would say this is a learn 2 play issue. Lol all those people trying to catch the sorceror on foot! We got some players smart enough to mount at least. You just cant catch the fastest class with a slow class and thats a pretty common theme in games with classes. If your playing team fortress do you whine that a scout runs faster then your heavy? Get real people.


On the topic of ultimates being op........ Yes they are op and thats what they are supposed to be. Every single one of them can tip the battle in your favor and thats totally fine. You honestly dont expect to beat someone who has their ultimate when you dont have yours, right?

Hoiyay

Zintair wrote: »

I have seen it wipe 10-20 players at a time who can't pay attention in less than 10 seconds without heals. How can it do this with it doing only 1/2 HP over a 15 second period???

Because lvl 10's start with about 1500-1600hp, so that is 100% HP for them, not 1/2. See, already got your numbers messed up! Also, many players don't just run in with 100% hp, they are already down usually 10-15%.

Your numbers are messed up again.

Zintair wrote: »

Also test Bash in PvE and then test it in PvP it does WAY more damage. Also just because there are glyphs on bash damage doesn't mean it is supposed to be the MOST viable damage ability a Shield Tank can have. Your argument's make absolutely no sense. Not to mention I said it was an interrupt that doesn't mean it isn't supposed to do damage just not at the degree it is doing. ALL stamina abilities are scaling VERY high damage wise at the moment.

I actually have, and spent a few hours Bashing people last night, and like I said the number still stands, 275dmg is average with a crit up to about 350-375. I sit about 1800stam, and about 90-100 weap dmg (not sure if it applies yet but believe it does). So yea, my numbers are correct.

My argument makes perfect sense, do I need to go slower?

ALL stam abilities hit too hard? Really? What about the Fighters guild buff (circle of protection)...does that hit too hard too? It's a stam ability. You really gonna try to rationalize that ALL stam abilities are OP now? There are some that hit hard (hidden blade) but the hit hard because people specifically min/max for that...so they are lacking in other areas and you have to find out what that is....or keep dying.

Zintair wrote: »

I'm very happy for you that you can avoid these abilities but TBH you sound like FOTM Basher playing the tough guy card because you don't want your little secret nerfed.

1) I don't know what FOTM is. 2) Your right, I don't want my secretly balanced skill nerfed....because it is balanced...and it is kind of a secret as not alot of people are away of it. *GASP* 2 weeks after launch and there are still some softcore players that don't know all the in's and out's!!

This isn't a whine it's just calling to bring these abilities in line with every other ability in the game.

Zintair wrote: »

Come to Auriel's Bow, Wabbajack or Goldbrand NA I'd love to see you and some buddies go up against myself and some of my friends. We'll see how well you hold up.

So your next post better have a time/campaign and how many people you are bringing otherwise I'll ignore you as the non-factor tough guy I think you are.

GASP!!! Did I just get called out to the flag pole outside of school at 3:00!!?!?!

Why do I need others...why not just a 1 v 1. But I honestly don't see how me kicking your ass is going to prove how classes are balanced or not. It will just show how...I can kick your ass.

Zintair

Hoiyay wrote: »

Non-Factor post is non factor

BTW your math is so grossly incorrect it's hysterical. Over 15 seconds the ability does 1250 to 1800. That means it does 84-120 damage a sec. i said over 10 seconds it kills people. AND NO ONE is using Synergy this is a SOLO DK doing this.

That's 840dmg to 1200 damage. So even a LvL 10 would survive the Ultimate if you were right. But you are not even close to being right.

I especially liked how when you typed you asked to go slower as if you were talking, this must be your first time on a forum.

Also FOTM means Flavor of the Month. Are you like a Battlefield or COD player or something not to know that? Your ability to call out people is incredible yet you lack even the most basic of MMO terminology. Much credibility to you, this is definitely your first rodeo.

Still waiting on a campaign and time. Oh yeah I forgot you are PRO at Dodging out of everything.

Hoiyay

Hoiyay wrote: »

And bring some numbers....youre just saying whatever you want when its actually wrong. The aoe dmg from standard is about 125 per tick (per second) I think its either 10 or 15 sec duration. That means it does about 1,250 up to about 1800.

Zintair wrote: »

BTW your math is so grossly incorrect it's hysterical. Over 15 seconds the ability does 1250 to 1800. That means it does 84-120 damage a sec. i said over 10 seconds it kills people. AND NO ONE is using Synergy this is a SOLO DK doing this.

That's 840dmg to 1200 damage. So even a LvL 10 would survive the Ultimate if you were right. But you are not even close to being right.

I'm not even right? I was actually pretty spot on. I quoted myself so you can see it. I said it hits about 125dmg per sec. So lets work this out together class.

10(secs) x 125 (dmg) = 1,250 (total damage)
15(secs) x 125 (dmg) = 1875 (total damage)

Zintair wrote: »

I especially liked how when you typed you asked to go slower as if you were talking, this must be your first time on a forum.

Zintair wrote: »

Also FOTM means Flavor of the Month. Are you like a Battlefield or COD player or something not to know that? Your ability to call out people is incredible yet you lack even the most basic of MMO terminology. Much credibility to you, this is definitely your first rodeo.

Still waiting on a campaign and time. Oh yeah I forgot you are PRO at Dodging out of everything.

Excuse me for taking a few years of break from the MMO standard. I'll try to be more leet like you sir so when I get my ass kicked in the game...I will not how to properly whine on the forums with the correct acronyms.


I roll on all kinds of campaigns and all kinds of times. You're not even worth it for me bud. I'm not going to waste an hour of my time trying to schedule something and meeting up on TS.

Ravinsild

So...this is the ESO community huh.

This is going to be a tough, long ride...

I worry for my favorite game.

Zintair

Hoiyay wrote: »

Hoiyay wrote: »

And bring some numbers....youre just saying whatever you want when its actually wrong. The aoe dmg from standard is about 125 per tick (per second) I think its either 10 or 15 sec duration. That means it does about 1,250 up to about 1800.

Zintair wrote: »

BTW your math is so grossly incorrect it's hysterical. Over 15 seconds the ability does 1250 to 1800. That means it does 84-120 damage a sec. i said over 10 seconds it kills people. AND NO ONE is using Synergy this is a SOLO DK doing this.

That's 840dmg to 1200 damage. So even a LvL 10 would survive the Ultimate if you were right. But you are not even close to being right.

I'm not even right? I was actually pretty spot on. I quoted myself so you can see it. I said it hits about 125dmg per sec. So lets work this out together class.

10(secs) x 125 (dmg) = 1,250 (total damage)
15(secs) x 125 (dmg) = 1875 (total damage)

Zintair wrote: »

I especially liked how when you typed you asked to go slower as if you were talking, this must be your first time on a forum.

Says the guy who can't do math....

Zintair wrote: »

Also FOTM means Flavor of the Month. Are you like a Battlefield or COD player or something not to know that? Your ability to call out people is incredible yet you lack even the most basic of MMO terminology. Much credibility to you, this is definitely your first rodeo.

Still waiting on a campaign and time. Oh yeah I forgot you are PRO at Dodging out of everything.

Excuse me for taking a few years of break from the MMO standard. I'll try to be more leet like you sir so when I get my ass kicked in the game...I will not how to properly whine on the forums with the correct acronyms.


I roll on all kinds of campaigns and all kinds of times. You're not even worth it for me bud. I'm not going to waste an hour of my time trying to schedule something and meeting up on TS.

I said they die in 10 seconds therefore the math AFTER that DOESN'T matter.

Hodorius

You people do realise that that horse guy has infinitive stamina?
Exploits must not be an arguent!

Catching these blinking guys is extremly hard for 2-3 players.
Getting ooc takes "hours" and if he knows what he is doing the chase will take forever.

RaZaddha

Ravinsild wrote: »

So...this is the ESO community huh.

This is going to be a tough, long ride...

I worry for my favorite game.

This is a mmorpg, I never had my hopes up but still got disappointed by it.

MrAmadeus

RaZaddha wrote: »

Ravinsild wrote: »

So...this is the ESO community huh.

This is going to be a tough, long ride...

I worry for my favorite game.

This is a mmorpg, I never had my hopes up but still got disappointed by it.

Im there with you!! :-( also, some what a side track, but where is the report a post button? Cant find it on my phone? Some post in this thread really need to reported, and yes im looking at you Zintair!! You are out and swimming in the deep end you shouldnt be in.

Kodiak

Hodorius wrote: »

You people do realise that that horse guy has infinitive stamina?
Exploits must not be an arguent!

Catching these blinking guys is extremly hard for 2-3 players.
Getting ooc takes "hours" and if he knows what he is doing the chase will take forever.

Actually all horses have infinite run speed if you hold down sprint. This is a designed mechanic and was intentionally changed to work this way by ZOS. This is not even the fastest horse, it's only at 41% out of 75% when fully upgraded.

Really isn't hard to catch up to them and nor is it really that hard to gun them down because they're alone 90% of the time and easy to take out unless they run with a group.

beravinprb19_ESO

Zintair wrote: »

Hoiyay wrote: »

Zintair wrote: »

I don't understand the crying over Bolt Escape when Shield Bash and DK Standard are what is really causing PvP to be unbalanced.

Are people playing the same game I am?

What is it about Bolt Escape that makes it so OP? You run away....

If a Scroll Carrier has it no one will be able to keep up with him so you CUT THEM OFF. Then they are screwed and alone. Scroll dropped....


Seriously, Bash and DK Standard are the real issue in PvP atm. bash is just broken and DK standard cost to little for how unbelievably damaging it is to AoE targets.

If you are stupid enough to stay in a standard....then you deserve to die. The aoe ring is not that big.
Pro tip....if you are out of the standard.....it will NOT kill you.

And bash cant do ANY dmg to you if you are even 2-3 feet away. If you constantly stand right on somebody and die....you deserved it.

Bash hits an avg of 275 (and thats with my purple bashing enchant)...where as others like hidden blade can easily hit for 500+ without critting. Let alone a snipe opener hitting for 1200+.

Non of these are op and all have their drawbacks. Learn to work around then instead of whining about that too.

You come here acting like your a boss with work arounds but you aren't taking into account how other classes cannot bring anything to the table on equal power level.

While I agree with most of what you say, I can't help but find it amusing that you can't see why bolt is so complained about even after making the above quote. Tell me, who else has such a reliable escape mechanism? No other class has something like bolt...

Hodorius

Kodiak wrote: »

Actually all horses have infinite run speed if you hold down sprint. This is a designed mechanic and was intentionally changed to work this way by ZOS. This is not even the fastest horse, it's only at 41% out of 75% when fully upgraded.

Really isn't hard to catch up to them and nor is it really that hard to gun them down because they're alone 90% of the time and easy to take out unless they run with a group.

Yeah... that´s why the horses you buy have different amounts of stamina.
It´s a bug and you do not use bugs as arguments about stuff like this... otherwise there would have been a patchnote like
"all horses have infitive stamina now and the black one is useless now".

Of course I could be wrong and I didnt see the patch... since beta.
In that case I would be pleased to see that patch note.

Until then you proved that one needs to exploit bugs to outrun bolt escape.

beravinprb19_ESO

Hodorius wrote: »

Kodiak wrote: »

Actually all horses have infinite run speed if you hold down sprint. This is a designed mechanic and was intentionally changed to work this way by ZOS. This is not even the fastest horse, it's only at 41% out of 75% when fully upgraded.

Really isn't hard to catch up to them and nor is it really that hard to gun them down because they're alone 90% of the time and easy to take out unless they run with a group.

Yeah... that´s why the horses you buy have different amounts of stamina.
It´s a bug and you do not use bugs as arguments about stuff like this... otherwise there would have been a patchnote like
"all horses have infitive stamina now and the black one is useless now".

Of course I could be wrong and I didnt see the patch... since beta.
In that case I would be pleased to see that patch note.

Until then you proved that one needs to exploit bugs to outrun bolt escape.

That is actually not how it works. Horses have 3 different speed levels. The first is walking, which moves slow but costs no stamina. The second involves holding down the sprint key, making you move faster and consuming stamina, but this can be held down forever. The last is done by tapping the sprint key over and over again, causing you to move faster and eat more stamina. That last one can not be done when you are low on stamina. In addition, the more stamina a horse has, the harder it is to dismount the rider of said horse.

Hodorius

There are no three "modes"... there are TWO!
Sprint and run.
Sprint uses stamina and is bugged as it does not stop if you dont release shift.
This is the only way to outrun blinking people.

In beta the accelaration was immediately. They changed it so it looks realistic.
Sprint needs a moment to be turned off... basically you just prevent it from stopping the sprint and as you run out of stamina you cant turn sprint on anymore.

IzzyNZ

You should probably try it yourself, tapping the sprint key is noticeably faster than just holding it down.
Using infinite sprint is balanced as it makes you get knocked off your horse in one hit.

Hodorius

One month ago...
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/1yphum/eso_horse_speed_or_stamina/

That was the first time it got mentioned in a forum... as I know.

It´s a bug! Not a feature!
Stop inventing silly excuses or "horse-modes" so people think they can outrun blinking guys without exploits!
If you are faster with tapping it its a second bug/exploit.

Funkadelic

I'm a sorc and while i hope they don't over nerf, it something needs to be done. Magika based sorcs can spam the spell way too much. I can live with a couple times; but when we can just spam the move over and over that is just way over the top.

Again please don't over nerf, but do something. Someone in my guild suggested to make it so that each time a sorc uses it the mana cost goes up a little; so spamming it burns mana really fast. No problem with the spell itself, but being able to spam it over and over many times in a row is a problem.

Humanistic

MrAmadeus wrote: »

Wow deadmedic! Thats quite the pile of dirt you are tossing around there! Love the way you call thrm elitis gamers, and yourself a veteran gamer! What are you a veteran gamer off? The keyboard war or the dirt tossing game? You do seem competent in both.

Now, I dont agree with everything ER says and do, but i start to find the random bashing off them to get old. Im personal very happy for all the work they do on Tamrial Foundry, and all all the hours they spend on showing the game on twitch and YouTube. Now you guys can keep bashing them all you want, it only makes you look like you have a serious inferior conplex, and loke the fat child that didnt get his slice of the cake.

I will rather listen to players that have spend and documented countless hours on the game, then forum warriors bashing said players, for nothing but pure spite. Just because they are from ER does not makes their arguments less invalid.

Just because you spend countless hours doing something, doesn't mean you actually learned anything. Their complaints about Bolt Escape are a perfect example of that. They said it needs nerfed, then someone posts a video of killing a player using it.

So what is the issue with Bolt Escape?

They won't just admit they had trouble killing (or didn't kill) a player using it. THAT was the problem. The problem wasn't the ability, it was that they couldn't kill who was using it. They have a tendency to do that - stretch the truth, or not tell the truth at all and give you some $#%^&! story.

From what I've encountered, this seems to be the way of thinking for many of their guild members. So yeah, I can't take someone seriously who can't actually identify the issue they are trying to debate about properly.

Oblongship

I have no idea who that guild is but I want that skill nerfed badly...

Raice

xhrit wrote: »

Raice wrote: »

No nerfs on anything regardless of anything. Not yet. There are broader strokes that need to be adjusted before we get into the precision nerfing or bolstering.

No nerfs on anything regardless of how bad it is broke. We might offend the people exploiting those imbalances, after all.

You're over simplifying what I said, and your sarcastic commentary in retrospect is off target.

I'm all for nerfing something that is causing major problems. All I am saying is we actually have to understand what the problem is.

If the problem has something to do with the calculations of some mathematical algorythm... then that's one thing.

But if the problem is simply that people are getting butt-hurt over something stupid... then that's an entirely different issue.

To be honest... I'm not entirely convinced that there is any issue with the ability other than people being butt-hurt. So I say - no - no nerfs until someone brings something substantial to the table other than inflamed rhetoric based on personal subjective experience.

beravinprb19_ESO

Raice wrote: »

xhrit wrote: »

Raice wrote: »

No nerfs on anything regardless of anything. Not yet. There are broader strokes that need to be adjusted before we get into the precision nerfing or bolstering.

No nerfs on anything regardless of how bad it is broke. We might offend the people exploiting those imbalances, after all.

You're over simplifying what I said, and your sarcastic commentary in retrospect is off target.

I'm all for nerfing something that is causing major problems. All I am saying is we actually have to understand what the problem is.

If the problem has something to do with the calculations of some mathematical algorythm... then that's one thing.

But if the problem is simply that people are getting butt-hurt over something stupid... then that's an entirely different issue.

To be honest... I'm not entirely convinced that there is any issue with the ability other than people being butt-hurt. So I say - no - no nerfs until someone brings something substantial to the table other than inflamed rhetoric based on personal subjective experience.

They outclass gap closers that are designed to counter them. That is where the mechanics for this particular ability have failed. Not only do gap closers have travel times, they also require a target. We need to line up a bolting Sorcerer and hit the gap closer BEFORE they can bolt again. That gives us a window of about... 1 second. Miss the window and they are now out of range. Besides, gap closers cost more than bolt, so even if you keep using it, you'll run out of resources first. You can't really counter bolt, and that's a problem.

Raice

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Raice wrote: »

xhrit wrote: »

Raice wrote: »

No nerfs on anything regardless of anything. Not yet. There are broader strokes that need to be adjusted before we get into the precision nerfing or bolstering.

No nerfs on anything regardless of how bad it is broke. We might offend the people exploiting those imbalances, after all.

You're over simplifying what I said, and your sarcastic commentary in retrospect is off target.

I'm all for nerfing something that is causing major problems. All I am saying is we actually have to understand what the problem is.

If the problem has something to do with the calculations of some mathematical algorythm... then that's one thing.

But if the problem is simply that people are getting butt-hurt over something stupid... then that's an entirely different issue.

To be honest... I'm not entirely convinced that there is any issue with the ability other than people being butt-hurt. So I say - no - no nerfs until someone brings something substantial to the table other than inflamed rhetoric based on personal subjective experience.

They outclass gap closers that are designed to counter them. That is where the mechanics for this particular ability have failed. Not only do gap closers have travel times, they also require a target. We need to line up a bolting Sorcerer and hit the gap closer BEFORE they can bolt again. That gives us a window of about... 1 second. Miss the window and they are now out of range. Besides, gap closers cost more than bolt, so even if you keep using it, you'll run out of resources first. You can't really counter bolt, and that's a problem.

Here, I'll fix Bolt Escape for you:

Leave it exactly like it is - but require a destination plant. In other words - the player has to select exactly where they are escaping to - like how a lot of AoE abilities work.

This should more or less slow down the time it requires for the player to use it, giving you plenty of time to react.

Nothing else really needs to be changed about it.

Zaldoras

Raice wrote: »

Here, I'll fix Bolt Escape for you:

Leave it exactly like it is - but require a destination plant. In other words - the player has to select exactly where they are escaping to - like how a lot of AoE abilities work.

This should more or less slow down the time it requires for the player to use it, giving you plenty of time to react.

Nothing else really needs to be changed about it.

Wouldn't this allow you to reach areas you can't reach with the current Bolt Escape? For example, climbing up rocks you would otherwise have to jump up, teleporting over walls and other small obstacles you have to jump over, teleporting on top of keep walls, teleporting down so you take reduced/no fall damage etc.

Raice

Zaldoras wrote: »

Raice wrote: »

Here, I'll fix Bolt Escape for you:

Leave it exactly like it is - but require a destination plant. In other words - the player has to select exactly where they are escaping to - like how a lot of AoE abilities work.

This should more or less slow down the time it requires for the player to use it, giving you plenty of time to react.

Nothing else really needs to be changed about it.

Wouldn't this allow you to reach areas you can't reach with the current Bolt Escape? For example, climbing up rocks you would otherwise have to jump up, teleporting over walls and other small obstacles you have to jump over, teleporting on top of keep walls, teleporting down so you take reduced/no fall damage etc.

Not necessarily. Even AoE abilities have automatic no-fire zones. It's actually sort of finicky.

And besides that, I'm not sure how that would even be a factor. Bolt Escape has built in behavior that prevents it from doing certain things. Changing the way you trigger the behavior doesn't change the behavior of the ability. For instance - there are two ways to trigger Dodging. You can have a button press or a double tap. They both trigger the behavior of Dodging, but do so in different ways.

In other words, just because you pick a spot to teleport to, doesn't mean the ability suddenly has the ability to move over or through things that are already impassable.

ZOS_AlanG

This thread appears to have run it's course - with so many insults being tossed back and forth, it's time to lock this.

There are a number of threads about this bolt escape and PvP, and you're welcome to civilly and constructively debate this skill in one of them. However, let's please leave the insults behind.