Stealth

Sorien

So I've looked through the threads and I can't find anyone else complaining about it.

I can't be the only person who thinks that letting classes other than Nightblade being able to stealth in PvP is absolutely moronic. Seriously?

Right now I feel like I should just delete my Nightblade and make a Sorcerer so I can lol-teleport near-infinitely across the field whenever I want, while stealthing into combat and ganking people just as well as a Nightblade can.

Not to mention getting stuck in combat for 20 seconds to a minute at a time, so you're doomed to death in bad situations with no way to escape as a Nightblade except for our laughable mobility skill "Path of Darkness" which is so short it lasts for about 4-5 feet.

Sergeant_Novak

Sorien wrote: »

I can't be the only person who thinks that letting classes other than Nightblade being able to stealth in PvP is absolutely moronic. Seriously?

I am severely against the idea of stealth being NB exclusive . The notion suggests too much that NB should be used only for a rougish role. When there are nightblades who are healers and who are DPS casters. When you give that type of exclusive advantage, you stifle non NB rougish builds. NB has a more rougish inclination compared to the other classes, but it should only be a slight inclination. This game doesn't have the freedom of play style choice perfect in terms of viability, but I believe player build freedom should be allowed to flourish and for class choice not to be so hard molded.

Gaudrath

I also disagree. It's not invisibility, it's plain old sneaking. Now, what makes NB so special that they're the only ones who should be able to crouch down and sneak? Other classes have no knees?

Plus it makes surprise attacks possible.

Sorien

Sneaking? Have you even played PVP yet? It's 100% invisibility. I think it's fine the way it is for PVE, but it's completely broken in a PVP environment at the moment.

Sergeant_Novak wrote: »

I am severely against the idea of stealth being NB exclusive . The notion suggests too much that NB should be used only for a rougish role. When there are nightblades who are healers and who are DPS casters. When you give that type of exclusive advantage, you stifle non NB rougish builds. NB has a more rougish inclination compared to the other classes, but it should only be a slight inclination. This game doesn't have the freedom of play style choice perfect in terms of viability, but I believe player build freedom should be allowed to flourish and for class choice not to be so hard molded.

It shouldn't be a "slight" inclination at all... I'm heavily specced into medium armor passives, a concealed weapon morph and everything else possible for stealth and the advantages seem to be little to none over any of the other 1000 people stealthing, which is the whole reason for playing a stealth based class in the first place.

If I had the choice between a class that could stealth, do mass damage with range, and teleport.... vs a class that can do decent damage at range, stealth, and couldn't teleport... which one do you think I would choose now that I know better?

The current stealth system is obviously flawed and needs to be changed.

Gaudrath

Well, I agree that they should include armor in it - as in the heavier your armor the larger the radius you can be detected at, when moving. They could also make it so that sneaking in heavier armor would be slower. So a plate wearing dude would be slow and noisy when sneaking, while the one wearing slippers and a shirt would be quick and hard to spot.

Because when I'm hiding in a bush 200m away from you and telling my friends about your nice catapults, it doesn't matter what kind of armor I am wearing and what class I am. You can't see me. I'm hiding. It's not and should not be a class thing.

Sorien

Gaudrath wrote: »

Well, I agree that they should include armor in it - as in the heavier your armor the larger the radius you can be detected at, when moving. They could also make it so that sneaking in heavier armor would be slower. So a plate wearing dude would be slow and noisy when sneaking, while the one wearing slippers and a shirt would be quick and hard to spot.

Because when I'm hiding in a bush 200m away from you and telling my friends about your nice catapults, it doesn't matter what kind of armor I am wearing and what class I am. You can't see me. I'm hiding. It's not and should not be a class thing.

Yea, I didn't mean you shouldn't be able to sneak/stealth at all... but you shouldn't be able to get right up in peoples faces like it is right now.

Azarul

The fact that all classes can stealth is was makes this game work. Your suggestion would kill the PvP or make NB mandatory.

Sorien

Azarul wrote: »

The fact that all classes can stealth is was makes this game work. Your suggestion would kill the PvP or make NB mandatory.

What? lol

awkwarrd

What the..

NB's are the only class that can stealth while in combat.
Don't whinge about being beaten by someone who got the drop on you with stealth just because you are NB.

It's moronic that something everyone can do is called "moronic" because you picked a class that you wanted to be the only one who was able to do it.

I hope you go and make a sorc, we will see you back in here in 1 week complaining about something else .

Sorien

You can't "stealth" while in combat as a Nightblade, you can go invisible for 2.5 seconds which costs Magicka and usually gets removed almost immediately most of the time due to someone lag hitting you, not to mention a large percent of the time you have multiple debuffs which make you "visible" during the invisible duration due to a debuff visual effect.

It has nothing to do with whining, or about someone getting the drop on me.. but when you have a class that is MADE for stealth, whether you guys want to admit it or not, being surrounded by classes wearing heavy armor and what-not stealthing around just as good and crap... it's kind of ridiculous.

The only people who wouldn't agree, are people who play classes other than Nightblades and want to keep their shiny Stealth.

sminkiottone

Looks to me that you want to play a OP class

Sorien

No, looks to me like I want the classes to be balanced.

If I wanted to play an OP class, I would go play a Sorc.

awkwarrd

Sorc arn't OP..

The fact you said that makes this thread not viable or legitimate.

Stealth / Invisible
Do the semantics really matter?
Go make a thread about the bugs in regards to the problems you experience with that not working for the 2.5 seconds.

The only thing i can agree with you on this whole thread is the "stuck in combat"
It's horrible in almost every circumstance, even trying to mount your horse.

Azarul

Sorien wrote: »

but when you have a class that is MADE for stealth, whether you guys want to admit it or not, being surrounded by classes wearing heavy armor and what-not stealthing around just as good and crap... it's kind of ridiculous.

The only people who wouldn't agree, are people who play classes other than Nightblades and want to keep their shiny Stealth.

Ok, but this means I don't want to see any NB in my DK's heavy armor or with a 2 hander. Or with Sorc destro staffs and light armor or with a Templars Resto staffs. Wow, ok so I guess that leaves you med armor dagger and bow.

LadyChaos

it was advertised heavily prelaunch eso is about everyone can sneak, and then followed by, with skill lines and armor some classes will sneak and be hidden better than other.

Too many are not getting over the whole sorcerer = nukes, templar = heals, NB = rogue, DK = Tank... not accurate. NB does have visibility advances over the other classes, but stealth is a gamewide mechanic like dodge, block and CC break. All of those have skill line increases/boons in each class/weap/armor lines also.

While I do think armor weight should effect movement or stamina use in stealth, I don't think that NB are the only ones capable of squatting in a bush and saying "I'm a rock I'm a rock" over and over.

Reavan

Im a nb and i believe sneaking shouldn't be class specific.
Aoc also had all class able to sneak.
I think heavy armour should have a bigger stam cost, then light and leather armor hardly any cost.

Kluzu

Sorien wrote: »

You can't "stealth" while in combat as a Nightblade, you can go invisible for 2.5 seconds which costs Magicka and usually gets removed almost immediately most of the time due to someone lag hitting you, not to mention a large percent of the time you have multiple debuffs which make you "visible" during the invisible duration due to a debuff visual effect.

It has nothing to do with whining, or about someone getting the drop on me.. but when you have a class that is MADE for stealth, whether you guys want to admit it or not, being surrounded by classes wearing heavy armor and what-not stealthing around just as good and crap... it's kind of ridiculous.

The only people who wouldn't agree, are people who play classes other than Nightblades and want to keep their shiny Stealth.

What you're having an issue with is the theme, not the mechanics. Heavy/light armor isn't ment to be stealthy, yes it looks a bit silly, but this is a great game mechanic and isn't OP at all. Stealth isn't a role in this game like in typical MMOs. In arena style PvP, sure it'll have a class with that role. But this is RvR style PvP, where it's about utilizing group tactics.

Nightblades CAN stealth better than other classes, that little invisibility can keep you hidden in moments where you would normally be seen. You can spam it if you need to, stealth right through a zerg if you need to.

Sure, someone in heavy armor looks silly stealthing around. But this is a game mechanic, not something reserved for some 'stealth class'. It adds risk to mindlessly running around, and I like risk in my PvP. It can be easily countered in a number of ways.

I'm a Nightblade by the way, it's my only class above lvl 10. Everyone should have sneaking, it's up to communication and prediction to tell where your enemy is. Good luck out there, or in your Plan B MMO.

P.S. Remember, RvR isn't meant to be fair. It's about being creative, that's how you win. If I want fair, I still have GW2's pvp.

Sorien

I'm not asking for it to be Nightblade only, I'm asking for it to be specced into.

Not everyone should be able to be 100% invisible even when you're up in someones face, especially a person in heavy armor, or someone with no passives or anything whatsoever giving bonuses to sneaking.

Examples:

Heavy armor should give a harsh penalty such as a 100%/125% detection area increase.

Medium armor should give a moderate penalty such as a 50% detection area increase without the passives, but with passives to actually give you a decent bonus like it is now so it will even out in the end.

Medium armor could also possibly have other passives to make sneaking better, because as it is right now I don't think there's enough.

Light armor should give you a slight penalty such as a 15% detection area increase without any passives to counteract it. As for anyone trying to say this idea is stupid, do you really think you wouldn't hear someone shuffling around in a robe?

There should also be other skill lines with stealth bonuses, although I don't know where they should or would go... those are just examples.

Everyone in this thread seems to want the PVP combat to be a boring invisible sneakfest of ganking by every person that shouldn't be sneaking in your face.

bantad87

I want to point out that stealth brings a whole new dynamic to the game, allowing for actual ambushes or sneaking behind enemy lines.

If I can use concealment in Afghanistan to set an ambush, and I'm not a ninja, I don't see why stealth should be exclusive to Nightblades. Seriously, stealth, and ambush tactics are a huge part of warfare - and ESO comes closer than any game yet in allowing somewhat modern tactics to exist. Bravo for Zenimax.

Sorien

bantad87 wrote: »

I want to point out that stealth brings a whole new dynamic to the game, allowing for actual ambushes or sneaking behind enemy lines.

If I can use concealment in Afghanistan to set an ambush, and I'm not a ninja, I don't see why stealth should be exclusive to Nightblades. Seriously, stealth, and ambush tactics are a huge part of warfare - and ESO comes closer than any game yet in allowing somewhat modern tactics to exist. Bravo for Zenimax.

Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to stealth.... I'm just saying that someone in HEAVY ARMOR, and someone in MEDIUM ARMOR with full passives shouldn't be near equal. The person in heavy armor should have heavy penalties.

There should also be other modifiers.

Good lord... Yes stealth is nice, but not the way it's implemented right now.

bantad87

We don't know for sure that armor type does or does not have modifiers for stealth yet; I personally think detection range should be based on armor type + whether you are moving or not + lighting conditions, but that may already be implemented; it certainly was in Skyrim.

Sorien

Well considering I've PVPed a ton and I've seen people in heavy armor not appear until they were right in *front* of me, I can say with a high certainty that it's not implemented or at the very least that it's not implemented the way it should be.

A person in heavy armor shouldn't be able to sneak up on anyone that closely, that easily.

ThatHappyCat

Heavy armour is already rather lackluster compared to Light and Medium, and you want to nerf it further?

I understand what you're saying from an emmurshun and "I want to be unique" standpoint, but game mechanics wise there is no need for this; at least not until heavy armour gets a nice fat buff.

hamletsbatb14_ESO

Dear Combat Medic Serving Overseas:

Please do not crouch down or try not to be seen as you advance on the enemy...this is bad form.

Also, could you tell the Machine Specialist that only Covert Ops will now be allowed to "sneak".

Censorious

Amazing how so many people assume this MMO is (should be) identical to WoW.
Everybody who went Nightblade did so on the assumption that they'd be able to gank people from stealth with overwhelming burst.

I read the specs carefully and chose Sorcerer. Now I hunt Nightblades in all those dark corners you love to lurk.

rotiferuk

Sorien wrote: »

So I've looked through the threads and I can't find anyone else complaining about it.

I can't be the only person who thinks that letting classes other than Nightblade being able to stealth in PvP is absolutely moronic.
.

You are probably in a minority. In ES games everyone has the ability to sneak if they want to. BTW, Nightblades have additional stealth abilities built into their stealth tree.

joshisanonymous

Sorien wrote: »

I'm not asking for it to be Nightblade only, I'm asking for it to be specced into.

Wish granted? People in medium armor already get significantly reduced detection range.

I think the real problem here is that you believed nightblades to be the "stealth class" when they're really the "high single target damage class". They do have a stealth edge purely due to being the only class with in combat stealth, but more important is how the mechanic feeds into their damage. Have you noticed how many of their passives give you bonuses when attacking from stealth? They even have defensive bonuses that are tied to stealth. When you combine that with mark target and such, you can repeated get 100% crit chances with 30%+ damage bonuses in the middle of a fight, all while being able to better position yourself than your enemy because you can repeatedly become invisible.

You can make it defensive, too. Build for high magicka+regen; use the dark cloak morph, blur, and strife; and you'd be hard near impossible to damage.

Or, you have numerous tools for keeping people at a distance if you go ranged that others don't have. Cripple alone is pretty awesome as snares are really difficult to avoid. But then you have aspect of terror and path of darkness (which isn't long with just 1 use but can be spammed and can heal you while you move). Maybe you should even consider shadow image purely for the teleport (with the bonus being reduced incoming damage).

I'm not trying to be mean, but I think you came into this with some preconceived notions and are getting in a fluster now that you've realized the game doesn't work like other MMOs. It's understandable, I wasn't sure why someone would pick nightblade if they wanted to play stealthy-like either, but now I can't imagine playing a different class.

Mobius0

NB get plenty of stuff that makes them better at stealth than the other classes.

Problem is that most of them are bugged or flat out not working. Concealed weapon passive being a good example (I tested it, and it is not working.). Also the bug with Cloak of Shadows, that you mentioned (getting removed from it instantly.).

Grim13

Here's another issue with Stealth in Cyrodiil:

I was losing a battle against an NPC guard, so I spammed Shadow Cloak 3 times to maintain invisibility long enough to sneak around to the far side of a large stone building... when I came out of invisibility, the NPC knew EXACTLY where I was!? The NPC should NOT magically be able to know exactly where I am!!!! FFS, Zenimax need to add in a breaking line of sight while invisible mechanic to fix that. Nothing worse than trying to get away... only to be seen through solid objects by omniscient NPC enemies.

szabo-chrisb16_ESO

Totally agree to your point OP. It's also annoying as hell that there are always groups waiting stealthed for someone who wants to talk to a NPC.

handdeb17_ESO

In addition that NB is useless concerning stealth warfare (when compared to other classes). After you kill enemy u are doomed with detect for who knows how long even if you are alone in the field. Same occurs when you happen to shoot someone with bow, you are plagued with the detect bug or what ever it is, even though you have ran to some safe spot where no one is around. But ye better just swallow the tears and roll another character.