Why force players to pve to lvl up?

chris.carr08b16_ESO

Raice wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

Raice wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

I find it really disheartening that we are getting no reply for ZOS on this issue. Actually it seems they are not answering on anything...

Are they even using these forums at all?

Maybe it just isn't really an issue? As you can clearly see by some of the replies in this very thread - not everyone views this as an issue in the first place.

I don't really see why you guys are so concerned about this. Comparatively speaking, you're already in your End-Game content. You're already experiencing the best of what PvP has to offer. It doesn't get any harder or any more fun than what you're already experiencing. And you're trying to make this experience go by... faster?

This is a non-issue. You have several options available for gaining levels. Just because everything doesn't meet your exact specifications and expectations, doesn't mean the game needs to change. Perhaps YOU need to change?

The people who don't consider this an issue seem to be the same people who are not really interested in high end, massive PvP.
And sorry, but we are not experiencing the best of what PvP has to offer. Getting 2shot by a veteran rank player who got his levels in PvE is NOT FUN. Just because someone chose to do non-PvP content, they now have a huge advantage over those of us who like to PvP only.
Imagine if it was the other way around, and PvP would give you a unfair advantage over PvE players. You guys would be screaming bloody murder all over these forums. Hell, we had one repeatable (and yes, broken) quest and all you PvE-ers complained about it like it was the end of the world. Even if with that quest leveling was still slower in PvP than it was in PvE.
We don't want the experience to go faster - we want the experience. And no, being level 20-30 and fighting veteran rank players is not PvP experience. It's just a turkey shoot.
The expectations that you mentioned were created by ZOS. We didn't buy this game "imagining" that we could level in PvP. We bought the game because we were TOLD we could level in PvP. We don't want the game to change, we want the game to be made as what was advertised.

Don't turn this into an "Us vs Them" argument. This has nothing to do with anything anyone demanded. This was a decision made by the developers.

All I am saying is that the only problem here is that you have expectations that need to change.

Why should you get the same reward of XP gain as someone else who participates in both aspects of the game? You're only participating in half the game. Therefore, you are entitled to half the potential reward. The people who are VR, and are also PvPing are participating in 2 areas of the game. Therefore, they are benefiting from both reward systems.

You are participating in half the game - therefore you get your alloted share.

Oh... OH! But you aren't happy with your share? Well... I'm sorry for you, pal. But you're kind of crying over spilled milk here.

Have you even played PvP?

Im curious what you consider a PvP'ers 'alloted share' to be?

Raice

chris.carr08b16_ESO wrote: »

Raice wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

Raice wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

I find it really disheartening that we are getting no reply for ZOS on this issue. Actually it seems they are not answering on anything...

Are they even using these forums at all?

Maybe it just isn't really an issue? As you can clearly see by some of the replies in this very thread - not everyone views this as an issue in the first place.

I don't really see why you guys are so concerned about this. Comparatively speaking, you're already in your End-Game content. You're already experiencing the best of what PvP has to offer. It doesn't get any harder or any more fun than what you're already experiencing. And you're trying to make this experience go by... faster?

This is a non-issue. You have several options available for gaining levels. Just because everything doesn't meet your exact specifications and expectations, doesn't mean the game needs to change. Perhaps YOU need to change?

The people who don't consider this an issue seem to be the same people who are not really interested in high end, massive PvP.
And sorry, but we are not experiencing the best of what PvP has to offer. Getting 2shot by a veteran rank player who got his levels in PvE is NOT FUN. Just because someone chose to do non-PvP content, they now have a huge advantage over those of us who like to PvP only.
Imagine if it was the other way around, and PvP would give you a unfair advantage over PvE players. You guys would be screaming bloody murder all over these forums. Hell, we had one repeatable (and yes, broken) quest and all you PvE-ers complained about it like it was the end of the world. Even if with that quest leveling was still slower in PvP than it was in PvE.
We don't want the experience to go faster - we want the experience. And no, being level 20-30 and fighting veteran rank players is not PvP experience. It's just a turkey shoot.
The expectations that you mentioned were created by ZOS. We didn't buy this game "imagining" that we could level in PvP. We bought the game because we were TOLD we could level in PvP. We don't want the game to change, we want the game to be made as what was advertised.

Don't turn this into an "Us vs Them" argument. This has nothing to do with anything anyone demanded. This was a decision made by the developers.

All I am saying is that the only problem here is that you have expectations that need to change.

Why should you get the same reward of XP gain as someone else who participates in both aspects of the game? You're only participating in half the game. Therefore, you are entitled to half the potential reward. The people who are VR, and are also PvPing are participating in 2 areas of the game. Therefore, they are benefiting from both reward systems.

You are participating in half the game - therefore you get your alloted share.

Oh... OH! But you aren't happy with your share? Well... I'm sorry for you, pal. But you're kind of crying over spilled milk here.

Have you even played PvP?

Im curious what you consider a PvP'ers 'alloted share' to be?

There are quests and mobs in Cyrodill just like every other zone. The difference is the zone is also Open World PvP.

You can do those quests and kill those mobs just like in every other zone.

Thechemicals

Pvp and elder scrolls were never congruent until now. ES is a questers game and a roleplayers game. I remember posting somewhere a year before this games release about how PvPers would come here and just rock everything and want changes for more pvp. Well,the pvp faction war is lopsided and the only reason the other factions seem to win sometimes is because the same zerg guilds (there is only 4) are switching factions to have competition. This simply isnt a pvp game but it was made into one.

Bramir

As someone who always winds up doing mostly pvp rather than raiding at end-game, I suggest to all of you fellow pvpers that you should really give the PVE content a chance, because Bethesda are the masters of challenging and varied quests. Honestly, PvP will be better in a few months anyway once more people start doing it...get your monies worth in the meantime...

Thechemicals

Bramir wrote: »

As someone who always winds up doing mostly pvp rather than raiding at end-game, I suggest to all of you fellow pvpers that you should really give the PVE content a chance, because Bethesda are the masters of challenging and varied quests. Honestly, PvP will be better in a few months anyway once more people start doing it...get your monies worth in the meantime...

That which pvp's does not read quests or Rp's lol.

shirorxb14_ESO

babanovac wrote: »

Raice wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

I find it really disheartening that we are getting no reply for ZOS on this issue. Actually it seems they are not answering on anything...

Are they even using these forums at all?

Maybe it just isn't really an issue? As you can clearly see by some of the replies in this very thread - not everyone views this as an issue in the first place.

I don't really see why you guys are so concerned about this. Comparatively speaking, you're already in your End-Game content. You're already experiencing the best of what PvP has to offer. It doesn't get any harder or any more fun than what you're already experiencing. And you're trying to make this experience go by... faster?

This is a non-issue. You have several options available for gaining levels. Just because everything doesn't meet your exact specifications and expectations, doesn't mean the game needs to change. Perhaps YOU need to change?

The people who don't consider this an issue seem to be the same people who are not really interested in high end, massive PvP.
And sorry, but we are not experiencing the best of what PvP has to offer. Getting 2shot by a veteran rank player who got his levels in PvE is NOT FUN. Just because someone chose to do non-PvP content, they now have a huge advantage over those of us who like to PvP only.
Imagine if it was the other way around, and PvP would give you a unfair advantage over PvE players. You guys would be screaming bloody murder all over these forums. Hell, we had one repeatable (and yes, broken) quest and all you PvE-ers complained about it like it was the end of the world. Even if with that quest leveling was still slower in PvP than it was in PvE.
We don't want the experience to go faster - we want the experience. And no, being level 20-30 and fighting veteran rank players is not PvP experience. It's just a turkey shoot.
The expectations that you mentioned were created by ZOS. We didn't buy this game "imagining" that we could level in PvP. We bought the game because we were TOLD we could level in PvP. We don't want the game to change, we want the game to be made as what was advertised.

You're a silly troll. I'm pvp Rank 11 on the biggest NA campaign and like pve'ing too. The two are not mutually exclusive, most people enjoy both.

babanovac

shirorxb14_ESO wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

Raice wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

I find it really disheartening that we are getting no reply for ZOS on this issue. Actually it seems they are not answering on anything...

Are they even using these forums at all?

Maybe it just isn't really an issue? As you can clearly see by some of the replies in this very thread - not everyone views this as an issue in the first place.

I don't really see why you guys are so concerned about this. Comparatively speaking, you're already in your End-Game content. You're already experiencing the best of what PvP has to offer. It doesn't get any harder or any more fun than what you're already experiencing. And you're trying to make this experience go by... faster?

This is a non-issue. You have several options available for gaining levels. Just because everything doesn't meet your exact specifications and expectations, doesn't mean the game needs to change. Perhaps YOU need to change?

The people who don't consider this an issue seem to be the same people who are not really interested in high end, massive PvP.
And sorry, but we are not experiencing the best of what PvP has to offer. Getting 2shot by a veteran rank player who got his levels in PvE is NOT FUN. Just because someone chose to do non-PvP content, they now have a huge advantage over those of us who like to PvP only.
Imagine if it was the other way around, and PvP would give you a unfair advantage over PvE players. You guys would be screaming bloody murder all over these forums. Hell, we had one repeatable (and yes, broken) quest and all you PvE-ers complained about it like it was the end of the world. Even if with that quest leveling was still slower in PvP than it was in PvE.
We don't want the experience to go faster - we want the experience. And no, being level 20-30 and fighting veteran rank players is not PvP experience. It's just a turkey shoot.
The expectations that you mentioned were created by ZOS. We didn't buy this game "imagining" that we could level in PvP. We bought the game because we were TOLD we could level in PvP. We don't want the game to change, we want the game to be made as what was advertised.

You're a silly troll. I'm pvp Rank 11 on the biggest NA campaign and like pve'ing too. The two are not mutually exclusive, most people enjoy both.

How exactly am i a troll? For asking to play the game that i was sold?

Yes, most people enjoy both PvE and PvP. But some of us don't enjoy PvE at all. Some of us came to this game because it was advertised that we could play the game by doing PvP. For some of us, PvE and PvP ARE mutually exclusive because we simply don't enjoy PvE, in any MMO, not just this one. I accept your style of gaming why can't you guys accept ours?

We thought ZOS did understand our gaming style, and that's why we gave them our money. But apparently we were lied to, and now are forced into doing PvE, even though that was not the deal presented to us in beta and before game launch.

Anyway, i'm tired of presenting the same arguments to every single forum user that only finds out now about PvPers' grievances and feels compelled to to make some kind of point against them even though they don't affect their gaming at all/

I'm pretty sure your satisfaction with the game will increase exponentially when all the pure PvP players will leave the game, and they won't bother you anymore... whatever way you think they are bothering you now...

Elirienne

Because this is an Elder Scrolls game first, and MMO second. This has been clear from the moment they announced the game.

babanovac

Elirienne wrote: »

Because this is an Elder Scrolls game first, and MMO second. This has been clear from the moment they announced the game.

To you maybe. To me it was a massive PvP MMO. To each his own.

fredarbonab14_ESO

This is the old PVE vs. PvP argument and eventual conflict. It was identical in DAoC. Why should you have to go 'through' PvE to get to max, or supposedly so? Because ESO its primarily a PvE game, where the largest market is by far, and it cost a fortune to provide that content! ESO went well past that point and gave PvPers even more options to level in the Open PvP world, so consider yourselves lucky. ESO has the best PvP on the planet, you don't think so, go somewhere else. Simple.

Also, PvPers are an aggressive lot and will do anything to turn the game their way at the expense of everyone else's welfare, including Bethesda's. Its the nature of the beast! Trust me, Matt Frior and company know this very well.

So, clamor all you want, you will get what Bethesda thinks its best for their welfare and sinking an inordinate amount of resources to keep you aggressive types happy, is not going to happen, unless they are stupid, which they certainly are not.

/happy killing each other

babanovac

fredarbonab14_ESO wrote: »

ESO went well past that point and gave PvPers even more options to level in the Open PvP world, so consider yourselves lucky.

Please do enlightn us on these options. I have tried them all and none of them are viable for leveling.

And please stop it with the condescension. You are not the one that decides if ESO is a PvE game or not. ZOS does. And ZOS told us we could level through PvP before launch.

MrDDT

Gothlander wrote: »

Many people like to lvl up through pvp. I think every mmo out right now lets people lvl up doing nothing but pvp. Why is it different here?

You can level up in PVP. So your problem is over.

Now if you want the best EXP in the game you should do it with PVE. If you want the best mats, you should do that in other zones, and if you want the most epic drops you need to do dungeons.

Sorry, buddy but you're complaint is not valid because you can level up. Just because you are unhappy with the speed, doesn't mean you can't. I suggest do what you are having fun with. If your goal is getting to max level as fast as you can. Then you need to do it through PVE.

Just to give you an idea. I went from level 1 to 49 in PVE, and I'm now VR3.5 with nothing but doing PVP.

ZiRM

PvE first... PvP second

babanovac

MrDDT wrote: »

Gothlander wrote: »

Many people like to lvl up through pvp. I think every mmo out right now lets people lvl up doing nothing but pvp. Why is it different here?

You can level up in PVP. So your problem is over.

Sorry, but this is just not true.

beravinprb19_ESO

Good grief. Why cant you PvE players eat your cake without stamping your feet on ours? We should be able to level and gear up doing what we enjoy, just as you should be able to do so. Oh, and for the record, most PvP players don't go to Cyrodiil because they want to quest at a quest hub. Besides, killing a few skeletons is not exactly PvP...

Cloakofwinter

I would say you missed the point of the game. TESO is not about PVP. In fact, PVP was an afterthought. It was meant as something to do IN ADDITION to PVE, but the story is contained in the PVE conflict. If you want constant PVP, you should stick to MOBAs like SMITE and League of Legends. This is not an MMO - its an MMORPG. If you take out the PVE experience, you lose the RPG part of the game.

beravinprb19_ESO

Cloakofwinter wrote: »

I would say you missed the point of the game. TESO is not about PVP. In fact, PVP was an afterthought. It was meant as something to do IN ADDITION to PVE, but the story is contained in the PVE conflict. If you want constant PVP, you should stick to MOBAs like SMITE and League of Legends. This is not an MMO - its an MMORPG. If you take out the PVE experience, you lose the RPG part of the game.

I'm sorry, but no. The game was actively advertised as having a 3 way alliance war over the ruby throne. It was said time and time again that it would be a central part of game play, providing buffs to allies based on how the war was going. The whole point of Cyrodiil was to represent this fierce battle between these alliances. Besides, we were told we could play as we liked, in whatever way we wanted. Well, you know what? I want to be a soldier for the Ebonheart Pact, fighting to take over the Imperial City. Thats all the RPG I need.

And please, do not presume to tell me what games I should or should not be playing. That is more than a little arrogant. I like the PvP in this game, as do many other players. We simply want quality of life changes to make it even more enjoyable. The changes we want will offer us better access to things like crafting, equipment, and character progression.

TheOnix

Cloakofwinter wrote: »

I would say you missed the point of the game. TESO is not about PVP. In fact, PVP was an afterthought. It was meant as something to do IN ADDITION to PVE, but the story is contained in the PVE conflict. If you want constant PVP, you should stick to MOBAs like SMITE and League of Legends. This is not an MMO - its an MMORPG. If you take out the PVE experience, you lose the RPG part of the game.

So what you're saying is that PvP SHOULD SUCK, just because some high-up dev decided that PvE > PvP?

MrDDT

babanovac wrote: »

MrDDT wrote: »

Gothlander wrote: »

Many people like to lvl up through pvp. I think every mmo out right now lets people lvl up doing nothing but pvp. Why is it different here?

You can level up in PVP. So your problem is over.

Sorry, but this is just not true.

@babanovac‌ It's a fact, not an opinion. You can level up through PVP. Is it fast? Not really.

MrDDT

Cloakofwinter wrote: »

I would say you missed the point of the game. TESO is not about PVP. In fact, PVP was an afterthought. It was meant as something to do IN ADDITION to PVE, but the story is contained in the PVE conflict. If you want constant PVP, you should stick to MOBAs like SMITE and League of Legends. This is not an MMO - its an MMORPG. If you take out the PVE experience, you lose the RPG part of the game.

Unlike PVE, PVP has an effect on every player in the game, even if they are PVEing.
Saying that it is not the point of the game is straight up wrong, and not sure which after thought it was, but it was said from the get go that it would have PVP.
Of course the story is in the PVE, but the player driven content is in the PVP.

When what you do in PVE, starts to effect the PVPers, you might have a point. Currently, in your PVE world you can do whatever, and it has ZERO effect on anyone else other than you and any people you are nearby (maybe). In PVP, the things they do effect everyone in all 3 factions no matter if they PVP or PVE.

If you take out PVE, you do not lose the RPG. If you think RPG only has to do with killing mobs you do not know what RPG means. You can role play in PVP, most are currently doing it due to the faction system. We are all playing soldiers in each faction when we play. PVE does not = RPG.

TheOnix

MrDDT wrote: »

Cloakofwinter wrote: »

I would say you missed the point of the game. TESO is not about PVP. In fact, PVP was an afterthought. It was meant as something to do IN ADDITION to PVE, but the story is contained in the PVE conflict. If you want constant PVP, you should stick to MOBAs like SMITE and League of Legends. This is not an MMO - its an MMORPG. If you take out the PVE experience, you lose the RPG part of the game.

PVE does not = RPG.

/thread

babanovac

MrDDT wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

MrDDT wrote: »

Gothlander wrote: »

Many people like to lvl up through pvp. I think every mmo out right now lets people lvl up doing nothing but pvp. Why is it different here?

You can level up in PVP. So your problem is over.

Sorry, but this is just not true.

@babanovac‌ It's a fact, not an opinion. You can level up through PVP. Is it fast? Not really.

Just NO. PvP leveling is so close to zero that by all practical means is inexistent.
Yes, in theory you can play PvP for 6 months and get from 10 to 50. In practice no one will ever do this when you can get from 0 to 50 in 14.5 hours doing PvE, as it was proven.

jpp

awkwarrd wrote: »

Captainkrunch96 wrote: »

@Mobius You do get rewards for pvp. you get the mail rewards as well as you can buy VR gear with alliance points(high cost). Also, I recall getting 2 skill points(no level up) for capturing a keep. and I am sure you could level up in pvp given time.

You get no-where near the rewards in PVP that you can get in PVE.

The quests are garbage for rewards.
The random mail you get is 1 item, and its a random item.
The skill points you received for capturing a keep was probably a display bug that scrolled up your screen, i have had that before during the early access, i did not actually get skill points like the white text that rolled up my screen said.

GO have a read of this thread.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/74423/pvp-rewards

I have not read the thread, but...
I played few hours in PvP, after this I had about 100 items indeed random, but matching my level, so I could wear all items with my or one level below, I had also few k of gold.
Indeed pure PvP will not level up quickly (there is not enough quests), and there is no enough skyshards, but I do not see PvP completely useless for advancement..

MrDDT

babanovac wrote: »

MrDDT wrote: »

babanovac wrote: »

MrDDT wrote: »

Gothlander wrote: »

Many people like to lvl up through pvp. I think every mmo out right now lets people lvl up doing nothing but pvp. Why is it different here?

You can level up in PVP. So your problem is over.

Sorry, but this is just not true.

@babanovac‌ It's a fact, not an opinion. You can level up through PVP. Is it fast? Not really.

Just NO. PvP leveling is so close to zero that by all practical means is inexistent.
Yes, in theory you can play PvP for 6 months and get from 10 to 50. In practice no one will ever do this when you can get from 0 to 50 in 14.5 hours doing PvE, as it was proven.

Ok, so you do admit you can level in PVP. Now that we got that fact out of the way, lets go with the next fact. You get MORE per kill in PVP than you do killing even level mobs.
Now not sure where you getting your 6 months from 10 to 50. But again, I've gained 3 VR levels ONLY from PVP.
If you want to level up fact go PVE. No one is saying you can't. If you want to PVP, you can level from it but it is slower.

Marstar

Raice wrote: »

I don't really see why you guys are so concerned about this. Comparatively speaking, you're already in your End-Game content. You're already experiencing the best of what PvP has to offer. It doesn't get any harder or any more fun than what you're already experiencing. And you're trying to make this experience go by... faster?

Level 10 PvP = (Funnest/Hardest) Endgame Content? o.O

Marstar

Valthorian1914 wrote: »

I do both RvR and PvE regularly, that being said, the design is perfect the way it is. So sick and tired of beautiful games getting ruined by the (how do you guys call them now? QQ'ers?) people that feel since they don't like the way a game is played, instead of finding a new game they demand and moan and gripe until things are conformed to their way.

Case in point, Archeage looks stunning and beautiful. Would love to play it, but after reading how the game works with its mechanics for both pvp and pve instead of "qq'ing" all over them I simply go, "Welp! Not the game for me."

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate what type of game you play.

Zenimax don't change.

How do you can't attract or retain RvR dedicated Guilds/Players if the path to end-game RvR has nothing to do with RvR.

You don't RvR exclusively and Cyrodiil is well designed to attract and retain a player base dedicated to RvR.

The type of game 'we' play is this one. Except it's missing a key component. You can't progress your character by engaging other players.

Personally I've had the time and patience to grind out both my characters to VR1. I can't say the same for a large number of my Guild-mates who have loved Cyrodiil through BETA and the first week of release, but in their more limited playtime have zero interest to log on and quest for a month or more to VR10, considering Cyrodiil is starting to lose critical mass in most campaigns with no promise that competition and enthusiasm for RvR will survive that grind.

Valiant29

So people seriously bought an Elder Scrolls MMO without any intention to actually play it beyond ganking people in PVP? Huh.

headbuster

It is kinda funny. These conversations have been goin on for awhile now. The pve crowd says pvp is fine when most of them don't pvp at all. The sad part is that the fastest way to level is to just bypass all the quests and grind mobs for xp. I prefer pvp to that any day, but with pvp xp being nerfed into the ground I left it until i hit 50 so I at least had a half a chance against people that got their v ranks faster via pve. It's kinda sad that the best way to get your levels is to skip all the game and just grind mobs. I wonder if the devs meant for that to happen? Pvp should have a boos to the xp in it in some form though. If I could have leveled in pvp even half as fast as pve / grinding mobs I would have done it.

babanovac

Valiant29 wrote: »

So people seriously bought a massive PvP MMO without any intention to actually do PvE? Huh.

There, fixed it for you.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

I am a PvP-er at heart but i am not afraid of spending hundreds of hours polishing my toon (and if by doing pve i achieve that then so be it). I do not like the PvE in this game and cant say i had that much fun playing trough it, only fun part of ESO is the little time i spend PvP-ing.
That being said, a mmo is all about choices and following the same script as everyone else simply because there is no other option will eventualy lead to people that are not ok with it to leave for greener grounds, know a a couple of them who already did.
Then what do you think it will happen to you, the PvE person that is trying to push onto PvP crowd their PvE content? The more people that play this game the more money the publishers earn and (hopefully) some of those money will get back into the game as new content, better support, better hardware, etc. Be more considerate towards other players even if they do not share your own views, you need them as much as they need you.

What i request, as promised when i bought the game, is to have the possibility to be competitive in PvP without having to spend moast of my time in PvE content. The hub quests, run around repeatables and pvp quests are simply to time consuming and the reward is to low to allow you to do that.
The experience i gain at veteran lvl for actual kills is around 3-5/person killed (and i require 1.36 mil from v3 to v4, do the math).

Further more, once you hit veteran level there is NO OTHER WAY to level then by grinding the quests...all the quests...all the zones..everything! (aprox 1 zone/vr level once you hit veteran content). This is game breaking for alot more people besides the PvP crowd.