Halls of torment / Lyris Doppelganger

Matrinka

Breton Dragonknight at 30 didn't like the Fighter Guild version of the 2nd boss, and I loathe it now. Both of us being almost immortal we both just can't kill each other making the fight endless. I have used sword and board all my character's career and the only problem I have is getting the bubbles is hard. The 1st boss was easy, just put up heavy armor active skill and keep attacking Tharn Doppelganger. But man why does the Lyris Doppelganger have to transform? Lyris Doppelganger should just act like Tharn one did imo, which would make this finally be a level 30 quest. Guess I just need to level up a lot or bring help.

Soloeus

I thought it was just me, that this battle was abnormally difficult for a Breton Sorc who picked Lyris.

The Doppleganger spam heals over the damage I can deal it, kills me in 2 hits, the bubbles are coming in from behind me so I can't see them until she heals to full. This is a good example of why limitations on looting bosses is bullcrap. I will have to get to level 40 before I can even try this. And by that point, I won't get any loot from killing it.

AngryNord

@Matrinka @Soloeus I hope you are sending copies of your posts to Zenimax?

Alandauron

cigarsmoker wrote: »

Well this was less than useful as a post.
We are all here because we've tried the tactics of killing the orbs and keeping the boss busy etc. and are STILL getting killed.
I tried this again this morning and died for an hour again. WHILE TAKING OUT THE ORBS AND KEEPING HER BUSY. She down to about 2k life and speeds up the attack pattern and I as a single target crit build Nightblade cannot keep up with the amount of damage she is dealing. Even with Health food buff and good potions.

So what then, am I supposed to do? Come back at 40?

Sorry my knowledge wasn't of any help. The only thing I can conclude is that ZOS needs to fix the mechanics not nerf them. Maybe the nerf is just a temporary fix while they address the larger issue of "What is causing all this *** to go wrong?"

If mechanics worked as intended and you followed the advice that I have given the Doppleganger should be a cake-walk. So since I know my strategy works, and you know you are utilizing my strategy, the only thing it could be is that the mechanics are bugged.

I hope they get this resolved sooner rather than later so that you guys can understand what we're saying when we say "Harvesters are NOT that hard". If not...well I hope they don't nerf them anymore.

AngryNord

Matrinka wrote: »

Guess I just need to level up a lot or bring help.

Which of course you can't, since Zenimax in their incredible wisdom decided that in a MULTIPLAYER game people should be forced to SOLO insanely overpowered bosses...

Erlindur

While I'm still having troubles with this quest in my mid thirties and I fully sympathize with people's frustration, I will side with the “do not nerf it” opinion. After a lot of deaths in there, I understand the mechanics but I still need practice in my dodging, blocking and interrupting. I didn't had a chance to practice on them because as someone else said, on every boss I encountered till now, there was a horde of friendly people killing it with me. Nerfing the boss or allowing me to take some friends with me, it will simply leave me as unskilled as I was on my way in. What I want from this encounter is a solo classroom so I can develop my skills and test run some builds.

What we truly need in my opinion, is a way to make this encounter more tolerant to mistakes (and lag) and somewhat ease up the tension an average player feels when he first hits this wall, turning it into a classroom. So here's my suggestion.

Leave the harvester as it is.

Make the NPC indestructible so it will always runs its script. At the same time reduce its DPS output to zero. We don't need the NPC to kill that monster for us. It is our job. Use the NPC to give us some time and space. Give it an irresistible taunt. Script the NPC to use this taunt when the player goes under 35% of his health for example and tank the boss till the player's health goes back over, lets say, 75%. You can even give the boss some damage reduction from the player's attacks when it is tanked by the NPC.

That way you have a battle that can go on forever with the player doing nothing. The NPC cannot kill the boss and the boss cannot kill the player or the NPC even if the player goes afk. That gives the player the opportunity to observe the battle and understand what's going on. He can dps the boss but if he ignores the orbs, he will go nowhere. The boss will still attack him when the NPC isn't tanking and he will have plenty of opportunities to dodge, interrupt and block. The only way to kill the harvester is the actual kill the orbs, dps the mob routine, while any minor mistakes you make only set you a little back.

What you will have in the end will be a better player with a very good idea of how to deal with a harvester.

Throw in a way to reset the encounter (like going back at the entrance) to get out of combat and rearrange your skills, plus a portal to go back to town and return without having to redo the quest from the beginning and you have the perfect classroom.

ksaggies04ub17_ESO2

I've found when your companions (whether the 5 companions or any quest helper) stop attacking, it's usually because they lost all of their health. I think what's missing is the kneeling animation that we would see in Skyrim.

I've noticed this a couple of times. Helper is attacking, health drops to zero, health bar goes back to full, and the helper just stands there. If the health locked at 1%, and the person stayed kneeling until the fight was over, I think it would be a lot clearer.

As for this specific fight, I don't have any good advice as to how I beat it. I'm a sorc, but I don't remember what I did. I remember thinking this was tougher than I expected, but I don't remember many specifics.

Good luck!

rangerluna375

I have tried this quest numerous times, and it's buggy as hell for me. Nothing works right in there. The NPC that tags along, the doppleganger boss, and the skelly's. Everything will just stop. I can't take potions, nothing. I have had hm next to death and everything will just freeze, and Im not talking about lag either. Every thing in the encounter will stop, with the exception of the boss. He is will just sit and spin with that move he does. It sucks.

Wanderinlost

There is a trick to this fight, I am actually impressed that they put a serious challenge in there.

The orbs are the key.. they heal whatever kills them including you.

kill boss, kill orbs, kill boss. .back and forth.. Once i figured this out i was able to kill it first try in about 2 or 3 minutes with an lv 30 greatsword dragonknight with about 1.1k hp.

It was a good challenge though requiring full use of skill potions dodges, blocks, aoes..

If you do not kill 90% of the orbs it is going to be a very short fight and you will be lucky or very powerful to get her below 75%.

I have no idea if any class or build can do this but I bet most can do this at level 30.

Sakiri

Let me just say that "die repeatedly until ultimate is full" should not be a suggested tactic.

I lirtally couldnt kill one of these fights until I did. Think it was maybe Fighters Guild final fight? Or valley of blades. Cant remember.

Sakiri

Matrinka wrote: »

Breton Dragonknight at 30 didn't like the Fighter Guild version of the 2nd boss, and I loathe it now. Both of us being almost immortal we both just can't kill each other making the fight endless. I have used sword and board all my character's career and the only problem I have is getting the bubbles is hard. The 1st boss was easy, just put up heavy armor active skill and keep attacking Tharn Doppelganger. But man why does the Lyris Doppelganger have to transform? Lyris Doppelganger should just act like Tharn one did imo, which would make this finally be a level 30 quest. Guess I just need to level up a lot or bring help.

Burning talons will kill them. Dont ask how because every other floaty thing cant be grabbed by them.

I went dw, standard of might and lit her ass up like a christmas tree.

Sakiri

As a side note, the end of the prison used to be guarded by a harvester.

They nerfed that crap hard.

They could stand to make the orbs easier to see or less of them. Sometimes they spawn ON the mob if you tank her on a wall or in a corner because its supposed to spawn 4.

alenae1b14_ESO

The problem for me as a 34 stormcaller sorcerer was that Lyris didn't transform into the Naga form for sometime. The issue was staying alive until that happened.

Raubrey

Just an update for what it is worth. My original complaint is here.

I was going to wait until LV 40+ to try again as it was so harrowing; but decided to try at LV 37 (Siphon Melee NB) with an Epic 2H weapon.

It was very easy this time --save for missing a block on Tharn, my error.

I don't know if the difficulty has been changed or it was due to the large increase in DPS that made a difference as the bosses died quickly. If the latter it still needs fixed -- or labeled a higher level. Oh, and I used the same technique and abilities as I did prior when her health barely budged. More of the health balls (I think) were red to me I noticed then before.

Beyond that, the last boss...after I thought Lyris was the last, was stuck in the lava and suddenly I was blasted with multiple spells that didn't propogate for some 15 sec. at least. so they came at me all at once.

I didn't die amazingly and THEN, I was stuck trying to get out of the place with a "transfer attempt failed" error -- which I am getting a lot of recently.

Had the quest not been done before I logged off to reset and had I needed to run it again due to being stuck ... just because I know how hard this quest was originally ... oh my...I would not have been too happy about that.

Duccea

I'm amongst those who had insane trouble beating this fight, as a lvl 37 templar. I am mostly focused on healing but did level bow in order to be able to switch to damage dealing for solo adventures - this was my salvation, since I finally managed to kill her after about 5 minutes of kiting her around and killing balls.
-
My spouse however plays a tank with a pure melee build and had an even harder time killing her. If you don't have aoe and/or range ablities, it's simply a PITA to pick off the balls in time before they heal her again.

So you either happen to have the correct weapons and skill loadout, or you're pretty much screwed ... not exactly my understanding of "build your character the way you like".

Edit: I'll not even get started on Lyris being about as helpful as a stuffed bunny in this quest.

Winnower

And this is why nerfing Doshia ends up being a bad idea. Anyone who learned how to easily kill Doshia shouldn't have any problems with this fight. I went in on-level and beat the Lyris doppleganger; it was actually a relief to see her switch forms to the lamia because then I knew what I was facing.

And I too would like to build my character to be a passivist itinerant philosopher who needs no melee, range, or AoE abilities (or armor) to emerge triumphant from every fight, but people who make extreme builds without consideration of balance or what they might run into are just asking to have to respec.

I like that the *option* to make funny builds is there, but it saddens me to see people complain that any weird build they can come up with isn't optimized for easy victory.

contact.opiumb16_ESO

for some reason, i finally achieved this quest and this time it was ridiculously easy : the boss didn't charged me at all, just attacked the companion. i killed her with a few arrows... well, this is strange how the difficult can be "godlike" then "easy" for the same quest/boss...

AngryNord

Well it is the same with e.g. Balreth - solo he can be nearly impossible, but the moment you team up - even with only one other player - he becomes almost laughably easy... No I know it is probably difficult to balance this, but if there is a way, they definately should try.

Samrien

I took Tharn with me and died a few times to the Tharn Doppleganger, but completely figured out his mechanic and am able to get him down totally. From someone that has done the 'hard' Mannimarco in Beta - also Doshia. There is something wrong with the Lyris Doppleganger fight. I have fought Harvesters before and completely get how they work.. She is way too fast on my butt and hits like a mack truck - even with a heal and kiting and killing orbs. If I trip on a sofa or a pile of books she can twice shot me. And after a 15 min fight that is not fun. The orbs resist some of my hits and can take several tries to get down. I've spent well over 2000g on repairs. Sad, but true. Light armor, dual blade/healing templar. In Beta, this part of the fight was bugged and she would hook on something and I could kill her fast. I don't want to kill her fast either. I'm looking for a mechanic that I can learn like from the Tharn Doppleganger fight and move forward. As is, this fight is just silly. Some of the posters saying it is super easy and others saying it is super hard makes me wonder if this fight is stable.

Pchela

That Lyris one is murdering me. I had a bug for it at first, where the human form of her wouldn't send off combat animations. 8 levels later, someone thankfully from CS force abandoned the quest for me. Now I can finally get Lyris into the monster form and good LORD that is a tough fight, even for a level 38. Very difficult.

Eyil

I'm starting to get the impression that the AI and general survivability of ally NPCs is terrible by design. It's been this way since beta, and they've still not changed it. I picked Lyris and during the Lyris Doppelgänger encounter she's completely useless - she stops fighting within seconds.

Zenimax needs to get their finger out of their collective backsides and either make the companions last more than a few seconds or remove them completely and change the encounters to make them fit the fact that you're completely soloing them.

Oh, and repair my gear without me having to pay for it this time. It's been damaged by poor game mechanics, not by my own doing this time. I'm pretty close to cancelling my subscription and picking it up again when they've actually fixed this huge problem.

madterryk

I can beat tharn easy enough but the Lyris doppleganger is ridiculous. I can drag that fight out, kill most of the damn bubbles, and even do a little damage. But the npc is useless. If even one bubble hits the doppleganger it seems to get full health. Half the time the doppleganger looks to just stand there graphics wise but it is instead attacking. I try to maneuver and get stuck inside of pillars, tables... I have yet to find a fight anywhere in this game as frustrating as this one.

steven.flemingub17_ESO

I just finished this one on my lvl30 NB using only bow. Lyris doppelganger was seriously the hardest fight I've encountered in a long, long time. I managed to beat her on my 8th try. Was extremely frustrating, but it took that many tries to get the timing right on when to dodge, when to use my pot, when to syphon, best way to kite, etc. In the end it was close.

As many have said the orbs are the key. You MUST kill them immediately when they appear to regain your health and stop her from regen. She will still be hitting you while you kill the orbs, but its hard to avoid that and getting the orbs is worth the risk of hits. The ground arm attack is the most dangerous part as it's unblockable and does tons of damage so must be dodged if you are right in front of her. You should always be trying to get behind\side of her so that when she does that you can avoid the most damage (she will turn blue just before she does it, wait a second, then dodge to the side). If you are far enough away you can stop between the arms (there are 3 that come out in a fan in front of her). It's hard to kite consistently since there is a table in the middle of the room and the room itself is not that big or wide open, and she constantly charges straight at you, so being aware of where you are in the room is critical.

The pull she does is annoying since you can't do anything about it except take the pull damage and are frozen while it happens, so best to save your pot for just after it finishes. As soon as she does the pull the orbs will appear, so immediately after the pull be ready to start killing orbs.

Of course, the entire time you are doing all the above you have to spamming your ranged attack (no time for the big attack), and occasionally hitting her with poison arrow, simultaneously make sure not to completely drain your stamina (since you need to dodge).

Anyway, it's a serious challenge, and I do think Lyris the companion should at least spend more than 10 seconds holding aggro before she simply stands there and lets the boss charge you. Or at least let her pick up aggro just after the pull, so you have some time to kill the orbs.

Best of luck fellow NB's.

7788b14_ESO

About 7 years ago MMO's did stuff like this and there's a reason they no longer do it. Now if they do it they give players a choice, normal, hard, nightmare. Constant hard challenges kill replay-ability because the player thinks about going through all that again and just says no.

ValenWoody

I just canNOT beat the Lyris Doppelganger. I started in at L30 (a NB archer),and barely made it past the Tharn Doppelganger after dying a couple of times. Then the Lyris Doppel just reamed me instantly. Came back at L33. Breezed thru Tharn. Lyris reamed me again, repeatedly. Now I've just gone back at L35. Same story. I've tried several strategies, and she just eats me alive no matter what.

By the time you've made it to L35, it's fair, I think, to say you've developed reasonable combat skills, There are more than a few quest bosses and world bosses out there who are challenging. This is just frustrating and ridiculous and motivation-killing. This can't be the intended behavior of this boss. I feel as if I've landed in an uplevel zone and am suddenly looking at a L50 mob.

steven.flemingub17_ESO

I just canNOT beat the Lyris Doppelganger. I started in at L30 (a NB archer),and barely made it past the Tharn Doppelganger after dying a couple of times. Then the Lyris Doppel just reamed me instantly. Came back at L33. Breezed thru Tharn. Lyris reamed me again, repeatedly. Now I've just gone back at L35. Same story. I've tried several strategies, and she just eats me alive no matter what.

By the time you've made it to L35, it's fair, I think, to say you've developed reasonable combat skills, There are more than a few quest bosses and world bosses out there who are challenging. This is just frustrating and ridiculous and motivation-killing. This can't be the intended behavior of this boss. I feel as if I've landed in an uplevel zone and am suddenly looking at a L50 mob.

Do you have the shadow ability that lets you go invis? I used that one a lot during the fight (particularly right after her pull or when my health dropped below 25%). It's only 2.5 seconds but while invis you are immune to damage and she loses aggro. 2.5 seconds does not seem like a lot, but against her those 2.5 seconds of no damage and losing aggro gives a quick bit of breathing room and some needed distance to reset your kiting.

ValenWoody

steven.flemingub17_ESO wrote: »

Do you have the shadow ability that lets you go invis? I used that one a lot during the fight (particularly right after her pull or when my health dropped below 25%). It's only 2.5 seconds but while invis you are immune to damage and she loses aggro. 2.5 seconds does not seem like a lot, but against her those 2.5 seconds of no damage and losing aggro gives a quick bit of breathing room and some needed distance to reset your kiting.

I have it, but haven't had it slotted recently; tbh I hadn't found it very useful, but for this I'll give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion!

LazarusLong

Ffolks wrote: »

Trying this right now. Same problem. It's really, REALLY, frustrating. Between the main quest in Rivenspire being bugged and now this, I'm really disappointed, these are key quests that are halting progress!

Ok.... just got through this part. SPOILERS BELOW

I'm a lvl 30 NB.

I went at the doppelganger with sword and board and just blocked her strong attacks and power attacked her when she was stunned. After about 5 cycles of this she transformed into a naga. The mechanics here are identical to the one in the early fighters guild quest chain. For this I switched to bow. Avoid her ground attack, immediately after she sucks you up hit her with a magnum shot and then proceed to shoot the orbs. They will heal you, if you miss any they will heal her. I used siphon and regular attacks mostly, saving stamina for avoid the ground attack and the magnum shot.

It was about a 15 minute fight though it felt like 30. All my gear was busted, save about 25 armor on my belt. And, yeah, Lyris attacked for about the first 5 seconds of the fight and just played with her hair the rest of time.

I need to express my undying love and gratitude for you... The orb thing was perfect. I was 5 levels above and squishy, not spec'd for serious dps. She was kicking my ass. This worked like a charm.

steven.flemingub17_ESO

I have it, but haven't had it slotted recently; tbh I hadn't found it very useful, but for this I'll give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion!

Good luck I really hope it helps. As for Shadow Cloak I honestly don't understand why Shadow Cloak isn't used more by NB's. It's totally underrated but definitely rocks. For one, it's instant, so you can spam it if need be to stay immune to damage and aggro for as long as you have magika. That can be up to 7.5 seconds or more if you have enough. For another, you can morph it so that DOT's and CC drop off you immediately. Also, you can combine it with Veiled Strike to stun lock your opponent. For example, after you drop the first mob from range you can switch to dual blades, hit Shadow and Veiled Strike the second that ran up to you for 4 seconds of stun if you take Master Assassin. After dropping him you can repeat that cycle again with the third (if necessary). If you also take Shadow Barrier, each time you come out of Shadow you have extra armor on as well. It really is powerful if used right and great if things go downhill and you need a second to change weapons\drink a pot\rethink strategy\etc.

Pr3ist

Ok did this as lvl 32 Bosmer Nightblade.

It's a difficult fight once you get to Lyris Doppleganger no doubt. I didn't even come close to dying to Tharn Doppleganger, just used dual wield and spammed Ambush followed with Rapid Strikes on the skeletons, then killed Tharn easily with bow from a distance.

Used Tharn as helper NPC. He was pretty useless on Lyris, fought her til she transformed into the snake tramp, then just cowered or stood there. I just used bow only, didn't use food or any potions (didn't have any). Died 3 times and restarted. I just used bow normal full pull damage, dodged the hands-in-the-floor attack...used Magnum Shot when she got close and shot the bubbles. Took about 15 minutes.

The key is the bubbles. Pain in the butt to try and target them when they are behind her but move around and take the time to do it. If you let even one or two get to her each round, you will never get her HP down below 75%.