Blacksmiths must be nerfed !

karneLian77

Seems to me that blacksmiths (BS) in the game have a clear advantage to other professions concerning the breadth of application of its products, and hence potential profitability of a profession. I mean the amount of slots on a character that can be filled with smithed items compared with slots suitable for leatherworkes(LW)/Tailors, woodworkers (WW), and jewelcrafters (JC, it is obvious that this prof will be brought into game in the future).

Let’s see. There are 7 armor slots (head, shoulders, hands, body, waist, legs, feet). For jewelry we have 3 slots strictly, for weapon - max 4 (taking into account that after level 15 we can wear two sets of arms simultaneously, 2 slots each set). Thus, a jeweler can count on 3 slots only per character while LW/tailor - on 7 armor slots. And even sour for WW: as they can do 2H only (bows and staves), and 2H wants two weapon slot at once, it turns out that a char can take a maximum of 2 things like that. Of course, WW can also produce shields, but those can be used only with 1H, and therefore WW can count on the same 2 w-slots maximum.

Aaaaaaand now… blacksmiths!! Seven a-slots - and in addition up to 4 w-slots!!!! I mean, if you are a fan of slice’n’dice you may fill all 4 w-slots with your favorite reapers)) Thus, totally ELEVEN slots suitable for BS!!!

And I ask you, comrades: is it not a hell of a lot for blacksmiths?!!

This must be changed. First, I suppose that BS must be divided into armorsmiths and weaponsmiths, as it is done in many MMOs. Second, to expand the assortment of WW products adding 1H (at least wooden club is quite an obvious weapon, I guess, especially for noobs, nunchaku again... although this will require to create a Monk class, probably)))). There can also be knives made of wood (hardcore Elven style!) or bone daggers (necromancers, here u are!)))

I think it will be productive for the game balance.

EliteZ

I don't see an issue with this, yes Blacksmiths are able to make the most items, but I'd go ahead and guess that it's also going to be one of, if not the most, popular profession in the game. So due to the high number of blacksmiths making items, the prices will drop as they won't be as rare as items from a high lvl Enchanter etc.

Chirru

Man....words almost fail me. All I can say is that you are entitled to your opinion which I do NOT share.

tarkak

Chirru wrote: »

Man....words almost fail me. All I can say is that you are entitled to your opinion which I do NOT share.

Agreed.

To the original poster, I appreciate the fact that you brought a recommendation with your problem statement, however, I see this as a non-issue. Just because there is a potential for a player to use all the armor slots as heavy does not mean that every player will. In that case, you are free to set arbitrary limits on how you play the game. Otherwise, do not make recommendations on how to limit my gameplay unless it is exploitive, which blacksmithing is neither exploitive nor OP

reggielee

im finding blacksmithing to be not worth the time invested in it, I get plenty of greens and blues from drops. Which I just switch out as I level, in fact, there are so many that I cant keep up with my blacksmithing to deconstruct them. Its a bank filling waste of time. By the time I get a blacksmith leveled up enough to make a difference I will have lost out on playing a character and enjoying the game.

Dreez

Do you have any idea how hard it is to level up Blacksmithing compared to the other proffesions?. I spent 300 Steelbars yesterday gaining ONE level... you know how long it take to grind that amount?.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Dreez wrote: »

Do you have any idea how hard it is to level up Blacksmithing compared to the other proffesions?. I spent 300 Steelbars yesterday gaining ONE level... you know how long it take to grind that amount?.

How on earth do you people mess up at blacksmithing this bad? Holy cow dude. I dont have to craft anything, all you have to do is deconstruct items to level it up.

AriesMoon13

I just want to add in, that the bonuses to said equipment...3 blacksmiths items have the same stats to 1 of another profession.

Tuchaka

Personally i am leveling ALL the crafting since we don't have an auction house it just means we are gonna have to be more self sufficient i see no downside to this. I just could as easily say provisioning has it soooo easy since mats are all over the place.

ghoxenrwb17_ESO

I don't think it needs to be nerfed, because only tanks will want a large number of Heavy Armour. Ironically, the only role that wants Heavy Armour also will be the ones who want the Shield from Woodworkers. Light and Medium Armour are preferred choices for ALL OTHER roles in the game.

I think it's much better to examine the profitability of the professions based on who wants their stuff, rather than what they can provide.

Tank - Heavy (BS), 1H Weapon (BS), Shield (WW).
Melee DPS - Medium/Light (LW), 2H or DW (BS).
Ranged DPS - Medium/Light (LW), Bow or Staff (WW).
Healer - Light (LW), Staff (WW).

As you can see, only two roles need weapons offered by BS, and only one role needs armour offered by BS. LW offers armour for three roles, and WW offers weapons for three roles (including tank shield).

Finally, I'd like to mention that tank and healers will be rarer than DPS. From what I've seeing LW is probably the most profitable equipment crafting profession at the moment.

PS: While it's true that some Melee DPS may in their ignorance go with Heavy Armour, they will soon become mana/stamina-starved and correct their ways.

Corithna

karneLian77 wrote: »

Seems to me that blacksmiths (BS) in the game have a clear advantage to other professions concerning the breadth of application of its products, and hence potential profitability of a profession. I mean the amount of slots on a character that can be filled with smithed items compared with slots suitable for leatherworkes(LW)/Tailors, woodworkers (WW), and jewelcrafters (JC, it is obvious that this prof will be brought into game in the future).

Let’s see. There are 7 armor slots (head, shoulders, hands, body, waist, legs, feet). For jewelry we have 3 slots strictly, for weapon - max 4 (taking into account that after level 15 we can wear two sets of arms simultaneously, 2 slots each set). Thus, a jeweler can count on 3 slots only per character while LW/tailor - on 7 armor slots. And even sour for WW: as they can do 2H only (bows and staves), and 2H wants two weapon slot at once, it turns out that a char can take a maximum of 2 things like that. Of course, WW can also produce shields, but those can be used only with 1H, and therefore WW can count on the same 2 w-slots maximum.

Aaaaaaand now… blacksmiths!! Seven a-slots - and in addition up to 4 w-slots!!!! I mean, if you are a fan of slice’n’dice you may fill all 4 w-slots with your favorite reapers)) Thus, totally ELEVEN slots suitable for BS!!!

And I ask you, comrades: is it not a hell of a lot for blacksmiths?!!

This must be changed. First, I suppose that BS must be divided into armorsmiths and weaponsmiths, as it is done in many MMOs. Second, to expand the assortment of WW products adding 1H (at least wooden club is quite an obvious weapon, I guess, especially for noobs, nunchaku again... although this will require to create a Monk class, probably)))). There can also be knives made of wood (hardcore Elven style!) or bone daggers (necromancers, here u are!)))

I think it will be productive for the game balance.

I don't see a problem with a blacksmith making metal objects, clothiers working with cloth and leather, and woodworkers working with wood. In fact that really does feel like a natural progression for these activities. Each one has approximately equal number of items they can create, with the exception of woodworking, but by contrast given the mechanisms for what is generated by woodworkers they end up being the easiest and by far the most useful profession to focus on of the three smith lines. Have you seen what bows can do in game? Healers are tethered to them via the restoration staff. Hello can you say tank shields? As well as three elemental destro staves.

For clothiers you've got the dps crowd homing in with mana regen for the light stuff and crit rating on the medium. They easily hold their own.

As you point out a blacksmith only player could potentially fill 11 slots But this is compared to the 14 slots of the clothier 7 light/7 medium. Your heavy armor wearers are not who will be your primary customers for dual wielding, that will be your medium armor wearers.

Sure there will be PvP builds that try to monopolize on a heavy armor dual wield build to try and get the best of both worlds and what will happen is that both will be gimped by comparison. Heavy armor is meant and works best with one hand and shield hands down. All the passive skills as well as the active ones are set up as part of a comprehensive system. Sure they will have some better survivability then a medium armor dual wielder, but at the cost of a big dip in dps because they just won't have the same crit builders. So really OP, I'm sorry but I have to vehemently disagree with your assessment of crafting in this title.

Corithna

Dreez wrote: »

Do you have any idea how hard it is to level up Blacksmithing compared to the other proffesions?. I spent 300 Steelbars yesterday gaining ONE level... you know how long it take to grind that amount?.

I think you may be confusing how to work this system. 5 black smith levels are the equivilant of an entire grade of materials. So a level 5 black smith makes level 14 gear, a level 10 black smith goes up from there. Stop trying to power level and just level up your character and deconstruct what you get from drops. That in and of itself will be more then enough to keep pace with what you want to craft. If you trying to purchase mats to level up just follow the same formula of 5 BS levels per grade and you'll find things get a whole lot easier for you.

karneLian77

Many thanks to all who have discussed this despite of mostly disagree with me. I must admit my offering looks like a bit extremistic Maybe I'd better to propose to expand WW's assortment rather then to cut BS's one.

Meanwhile,

Dreez wrote: »

Do you have any idea how hard it is to level up Blacksmithing compared to the other proffesions?. I spent 300 Steelbars yesterday gaining ONE level... you know how long it take to grind that amount?.

Yes, I do know... that iron lodes are the most common object for farming in this game world. They really always in sight wherever u run. About me, such an abundance makes me move slowly because my inner hamster (which sits in my head and cries 'Loot! More loot!!!' every time I see any lootable thing ) demands to dig any ore I can get. But now I'm tryin' to suppress it to speed up my travellings ))))

That's why I don'y understand what's your trouble, comrade. You just run forth - and grab every lode u see. I guess it's easy.

Moreover, u always can disassemble any items u've just crafted and get some metal bars back - and then use them again to produce something, then crack it again, and so on. So, I know that levelling up in BS if a fast thing (at least when u r a novice).

ghoxenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't think it needs to be nerfed, because only tanks will want a large number of Heavy Armour. Ironically, the only role that wants Heavy Armour also will be the ones who want the Shield from Woodworkers. Light and Medium Armour are preferred choices for ALL OTHER roles in the game.

I think it's much better to examine the profitability of the professions based on who wants their stuff, rather than what they can provide.

Tank - Heavy (BS), 1H Weapon (BS), Shield (WW).
Melee DPS - Medium/Light (LW), 2H or DW (BS).
Ranged DPS - Medium/Light (LW), Bow or Staff (WW).
Healer - Light (LW), Staff (WW).
....

Comrade, u've forgotten, for example, such a class as Paladine. Remember, a heavy armored melee fighter who can at the same time heal himself and any allies? ('I'm a retri Paladone, / I will kill'em all alone' , hehe ) So, casters need a hevy armor too... sometimes.

Many thanks to all again.

Eris

I don't really see why people seem to think that this or that must be nerfed. The game has officially been live for 2 days (7 with head-start) how can anyone really know what must or must not be nerfed, and more importantly one persons opinion does not reflect the community.

Therefore, I propose that people start any statement with must be nerfed with the following 'In my opinion' or 'I think'. Totally unenforceable, but really needed.

TRG_Ebrasu

Blacksmith make armor and weapons. I am not seeing the issue. I guess you want them to break it down so you have go see a Bosmer weapon smith to get Bosmer gear as well?

This is a complete non issue as Blacksmithing is already nerfed just by how much it takes to level. I leveled to lvl 7 in woodworking by making exactly 5 shields , breaking down the shockingly large amount of staves and wands that seem to drop and converting rough maple to sanded maple. It took actual grinding to get even near lvl 7 of blacksmithing.

ghoxenrwb17_ESO

karneLian77 wrote: »

ghoxenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't think it needs to be nerfed, because only tanks will want a large number of Heavy Armour. Ironically, the only role that wants Heavy Armour also will be the ones who want the Shield from Woodworkers. Light and Medium Armour are preferred choices for ALL OTHER roles in the game.

I think it's much better to examine the profitability of the professions based on who wants their stuff, rather than what they can provide.

Tank - Heavy (BS), 1H Weapon (BS), Shield (WW).
Melee DPS - Medium/Light (LW), 2H or DW (BS).
Ranged DPS - Medium/Light (LW), Bow or Staff (WW).
Healer - Light (LW), Staff (WW).
....

Comrade, u've forgotten, for example, such a class as Paladine. Remember, a heavy armored melee fighter who can at the same time heal himself and any allies? ('I'm a retri Paladone, / I will kill'em all alone' , hehe ) So, casters need a hevy armor too... sometimes.

Many thanks to all again.

That is a fashionable but not practical build. It will die out before reaching endgame and was thus not considered in my analysis. A Templar DPS with off-healing capability will do a better job at both dealing damage and healing in Light Armour.

Phranq

Also. Nobody seems to have pointed out yet that with the armor caps as low as they are most tank, paladin, and melee dps classes switch to light or medium armor at high levels.. it is just too easy to hit max armor with heavy...

thismudtasteslikechocolaterwb17_ESO

I am going to ignore every single reply in this thread, and simply point out to the OP that the situation outlined above would only be an issue in a game where the number of professions a character can take is limited - a game such as WoW.

Since ESO has no such limitations, professions need not be balanced around potential financial returns.

In other words, if you think blacksmithing is overpowered, become a blacksmith yourself. No one is stopping you.

Jadeviper1974

"MUST BE NERFED" POST MUST BE NERFED!

Censorious

I doubt anyone at Zenimax bothered to read past the first line. I didn't

Destabilizator

Let's see, dropped sets are way better than any crafted ones. All your BS can do is to upgrade those to Legendary. And every profession can do that, so your point is?

LastLaugh

Congratulations, you have earned 5 points and the legendary troll post badge!

Trainerdc

Dividing it into two different proffesions could get interesting, but in the end armorsmithing would get overleveled and people would complain how hard it is to level up weponsmithing because you can oly wear 4 wepons max

Silverbird

'Jewelcrafting' as it was named from the op doesnt exist yet. While a bs has a wider variety of items to craft than most others, he also needs to spend more time into researching. Not to mention that ppl usually dont like each weapon at the same rate.
As for leveling bs .... If you want to do it faster, co-op with someone else training it, too. Swap your crafted items with the other person and you get more xp from deconstructing than you would get from your own crafted ones.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Dreez wrote: »

Do you have any idea how hard it is to level up Blacksmithing compared to the other proffesions?. I spent 300 Steelbars yesterday gaining ONE level... you know how long it take to grind that amount?.

How on earth do you people mess up at blacksmithing this bad? Holy cow dude. I dont have to craft anything, all you have to do is deconstruct items to level it up.

deconstruction being the fastest way to level is the worst thing they implemented imho. Crafting means crafting not destroying.... also if you deconstruct self made items you are penalised. Why are solo players punished?

when you craft item it should give much more XP than deconstruction... that is the purpose of crafting to actualy CRAFT.

for the topis I am perfectly fine with Blacksmithing as it is.

Anazasi

Wait.....Blacksmith can make jewelry.... I didn't know that......

Brennan

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO wrote: »

deconstruction being the fastest way to level is the worst thing they implemented imho. Crafting means crafting not destroying.... also if you deconstruct self made items you are penalised. Why are solo players punished?

when you craft item it should give much more XP than deconstruction... that is the purpose of crafting to actualy CRAFT.

for the topis I am perfectly fine with Blacksmithing as it is.

Why do you want to penalize people who are working together in a multi-player game?

vegeta0585b14_ESO

This post....I don't even....what is....

Did it really just pretty much say "Wah wah blacksmiths can make all their own gear?"

Or is he upset that we can make weapons? Which he's assuming all blacksmith use metal weapons, and there are no heavy archers / mages out there with staves, bows, etc. I am so confused.

JessieColt

Blacksmithing is not an easy or OP profession. Keep in mind that crafting an item isn't just making the item itself. In order to make Blacksmithing worth anything, to anyone, you have to research the traits. That is 8 traits PER item.

For 7 items, that means 56 traits you have to research. Complete with research timers that increase after each trait is learned.

A blacksmith has to dedicate twice as much time to their craft as a Clothier or Woodworker precisely because they have two lines of items they can craft. (Weapons and Armor).

If you spit Weaponsmith and Armorsmith into 2 separate crafts, you would not nerf Blacksmithing, you would only serve to shorten the time it takes to level both because you would then be able to research 2 lines for each type simultaneously. This wouldn't be a nerf to Blacksmiths, it would be an advantage.

So no, I do not agree with the changes you mention, although as a Blacksmith, one would think that I would just so that I could do twice the amount of researching so that I could level that faster.

Soban

Blacksmithing can only make heavy armor. I'd say they have it bad enough right there.

Jeremy

I think this is a silly thing to be upset about.