Vengeance ruleset for Dungeons/Etc.

salander7

This has to be the worst idea I've read in a while, kudos, it takes effort to come up with something like this.

To be fair, they should just sell in crown store a feature to unlock the instakill button devs have when doing teasers on streams. Change your account name to green or smth so other people know you're a true game supporter, let you get every trifecta in the game in a week, then you can move on to watch grass grow or paint dry.

While at it, they can just upload the game to youtube as gameplay videos, and the only input would be pressing play once. It'd save a lot of money in servers on their end!

I swear, it sometimes feels people on this forum are just staff from other MMOs trying to kill ESO.

SneaK

robwolf666 wrote: »

"I’m on new gen Xbox" - By that I take it you mean Series X? I'm on Series X too and I can't even remember the last time I saw performance issues in PvE. Other problems, sure sometimes, but not performance. Maybe it's your internet?

Did you do any seige camps? Did you ride your mount from the wayshrine to the enclave during the undaunted event? Have you killed a boss in Clockwork this week? Have you never DC’d while in your bank/champion points/trader?

Respectfully, I’m not the one in here being disingenuous when these kind of comments are popping up.

“It’s your internet”
“Its your hardware”
“PvE doesn’t lag”

Gimme a break.

Four_Fingers

So suddenly Vengeance is no good if it is on the other foot? (PvE)
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

lostineternity

SneaK wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

"I’m on new gen Xbox" - By that I take it you mean Series X? I'm on Series X too and I can't even remember the last time I saw performance issues in PvE. Other problems, sure sometimes, but not performance. Maybe it's your internet?

Did you do any seige camps? Did you ride your mount from the wayshrine to the enclave during the undaunted event? Have you killed a boss in Clockwork this week? Have you never DC’d while in your bank/champion points/trader?

Respectfully, I’m not the one in here being disingenuous when these kind of comments are popping up.

“It’s your internet”
“Its your hardware”
“PvE doesn’t lag”

Gimme a break.

Yeah because events are total mess zos should castrate the whole game.
"Gimme a break." - exactly

SneaK

lostineternity wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

"I’m on new gen Xbox" - By that I take it you mean Series X? I'm on Series X too and I can't even remember the last time I saw performance issues in PvE. Other problems, sure sometimes, but not performance. Maybe it's your internet?

Did you do any seige camps? Did you ride your mount from the wayshrine to the enclave during the undaunted event? Have you killed a boss in Clockwork this week? Have you never DC’d while in your bank/champion points/trader?

Respectfully, I’m not the one in here being disingenuous when these kind of comments are popping up.

“It’s your internet”
“Its your hardware”
“PvE doesn’t lag”

Gimme a break.

Yeah because events are total mess zos should castrate the whole game.
"Gimme a break." - exactly

How is a ruleset that improves performance where it’s needed “castrating” the game?

lostineternity

SneaK wrote: »

lostineternity wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

"I’m on new gen Xbox" - By that I take it you mean Series X? I'm on Series X too and I can't even remember the last time I saw performance issues in PvE. Other problems, sure sometimes, but not performance. Maybe it's your internet?

Did you do any seige camps? Did you ride your mount from the wayshrine to the enclave during the undaunted event? Have you killed a boss in Clockwork this week? Have you never DC’d while in your bank/champion points/trader?

Respectfully, I’m not the one in here being disingenuous when these kind of comments are popping up.

“It’s your internet”
“Its your hardware”
“PvE doesn’t lag”

Gimme a break.

Yeah because events are total mess zos should castrate the whole game.
"Gimme a break." - exactly

How is a ruleset that improves performance where it’s needed “castrating” the game?

Are you a troll? How the ruleset that cut off rpg game mechanics destroys the game? Really?
You are literally suggesting to cut off the leg because of scratch on the finger.

salander7

Four_Fingers wrote: »

So suddenly Vengeance is no good if it is on the other foot? (PvE)
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

It is no good for pvp either, but pve players have chosen other battles when it comes to topics. Pvp players have complained, but I guess they're not vocal enough.
The main excuse for vengeance are performance related issues, which may be around, but given how cyrodiil has not always been terrible performance wise, there may be other situations where it works as it still is. Maybe they don't want to commit resources, maybe they don't have them, maybe the pvp playerbase is not big enough to be worth the effort. I don't know.
While that debate can be held, I've yet to see a pvp player excited about vengeance. The first test was something some people were curious about.
After it was clear it was butchering the gameplay, I haven't heard any pvp player wishing for it. Other people do have heard so, in fact apparently every pvp player but the ones I've talked about this with are super excited, according to some comments. Taking them with a grain of salt.

The only thing I can tell you is vengeance has deterred me from playing cyro whenever it's been up. However, I haven't played more than 5h of pvp since subclassing came around in pvp, so they may as well delete the mode for what I care about it these days, but that doesn't make it a good decision.
Saying this as a mainly pve player, and while pvp is not my main activity, that has gotten a char to pvp rank 50, another to rank 40ish and another to rank 30ish. I wanted to get them both to rank 45ish, but I guess it won't happen.

Edit: typo

MSattrtand

You're barking up the wrong tree, dawg.

You probably expected to get responses from trial score-pushers like "That's a completely different thing! Vengeance PvP is great, but Vengeance PvE will kill the game!". But in reality, they are much more likely to side with the anti-vengeance crowd, because losing options can't be a good thing, and that's one of the worst things of multiclassing - if HotT and Assassination are so good, there's not really a choice, if you should run them or not.

But from the PvE side of the game, support of Vengeance mostly comes from casuals. And they will be happy to see Vengeance PvE. You know, one-bar Oakensoul HA builds are so popular for a reason - they are trying to simplify the game. It doesn't matter whether it's a PvP or PvE side of it. They can already obtain easily accessible Vengeance gear in PvE in the form of 12 pieces of Shattered Fate, but they do not understand it because they're casuals. They do not understand that sets won't carry them through any content, no matter what it is, Vicious Death or Perfected Null Arca.

So, your ragebait kinda misses the point. Same for your trolling about performance in PvE. Trial folks can tell you a lot about the DSR memory leak, the need to reset the whole vRG after a few wipes on Oax to avoid lag, and more things. You have a right to be disappointed with Vengeance PvP, but at least try not to direct your anger towards the wrong targets.

SneaK

lostineternity wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

lostineternity wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

"I’m on new gen Xbox" - By that I take it you mean Series X? I'm on Series X too and I can't even remember the last time I saw performance issues in PvE. Other problems, sure sometimes, but not performance. Maybe it's your internet?

Did you do any seige camps? Did you ride your mount from the wayshrine to the enclave during the undaunted event? Have you killed a boss in Clockwork this week? Have you never DC’d while in your bank/champion points/trader?

Respectfully, I’m not the one in here being disingenuous when these kind of comments are popping up.

“It’s your internet”
“Its your hardware”
“PvE doesn’t lag”

Gimme a break.

Yeah because events are total mess zos should castrate the whole game.
"Gimme a break." - exactly

How is a ruleset that improves performance where it’s needed “castrating” the game?

Are you a troll? How the ruleset that cut off rpg game mechanics destroys the game? Really?
You are literally suggesting to cut off the leg because of scratch on the finger.

No I'm suggesting Vengeance ruleset for PvE since it’s THE SOLUTION to performance issues we currently face. Give me the option to load into a vengeance instance of dungeon XYZ or zone XYZ. Why not just TEST it at least.

To add, access to the templates would eliminate any need for CP or even crafting and the bank. These are places I often crash to the menu and get met with the error 307. It would likely solve that issue as well since I wouldn’t even have to deal with it.

aetherix8

MasterSpatula wrote: »

The levels of bad faith here are off the charts.

Indeed. Somehow it makes a hilarious reading though.

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Well, I don't know about pve vengenace, but yeah I would definitely agree that zos should shift their focus back to pve.

Let them finish what they’ve started PvP wise, or we will get another half baked mode with crappy performance. We’ve already got enough of that.

SneaK

MSattrtand wrote: »

You're barking up the wrong tree, dawg.

You probably expected to get responses from trial score-pushers like "That's a completely different thing! Vengeance PvP is great, but Vengeance PvE will kill the game!". But in reality, they are much more likely to side with the anti-vengeance crowd, because losing options can't be a good thing, and that's one of the worst things of multiclassing - if HotT and Assassination are so good, there's not really a choice, if you should run them or not.

But from the PvE side of the game, support of Vengeance mostly comes from casuals. And they will be happy to see Vengeance PvE. You know, one-bar Oakensoul HA builds are so popular for a reason - they are trying to simplify the game. It doesn't matter whether it's a PvP or PvE side of it. They can already obtain easily accessible Vengeance gear in PvE in the form of 12 pieces of Shattered Fate, but they do not understand it because they're casuals. They do not understand that sets won't carry them through any content, no matter what it is, Vicious Death or Perfected Null Arca.

So, your ragebait kinda misses the point. Same for your trolling about performance in PvE. Trial folks can tell you a lot about the DSR memory leak, the need to reset the whole vRG after a few wipes on Oax to avoid lag, and more things. You have a right to be disappointed with Vengeance PvP, but at least try not to direct your anger towards the wrong targets.

You got me all wrong. My experience in PvE suffers performance issues and I would like to see a similar ruleset test for it that they are doing with Cyrodiil. The template idea seems great for PvE too, it would increase performance and whittle down some barriers into certain DLC content many people have a hard time with.

twisttop138

SneaK wrote: »

MSattrtand wrote: »

You're barking up the wrong tree, dawg.

You probably expected to get responses from trial score-pushers like "That's a completely different thing! Vengeance PvP is great, but Vengeance PvE will kill the game!". But in reality, they are much more likely to side with the anti-vengeance crowd, because losing options can't be a good thing, and that's one of the worst things of multiclassing - if HotT and Assassination are so good, there's not really a choice, if you should run them or not.

But from the PvE side of the game, support of Vengeance mostly comes from casuals. And they will be happy to see Vengeance PvE. You know, one-bar Oakensoul HA builds are so popular for a reason - they are trying to simplify the game. It doesn't matter whether it's a PvP or PvE side of it. They can already obtain easily accessible Vengeance gear in PvE in the form of 12 pieces of Shattered Fate, but they do not understand it because they're casuals. They do not understand that sets won't carry them through any content, no matter what it is, Vicious Death or Perfected Null Arca.

So, your ragebait kinda misses the point. Same for your trolling about performance in PvE. Trial folks can tell you a lot about the DSR memory leak, the need to reset the whole vRG after a few wipes on Oax to avoid lag, and more things. You have a right to be disappointed with Vengeance PvP, but at least try not to direct your anger towards the wrong targets.

You got me all wrong. My experience in PvE suffers performance issues and I would like to see a similar ruleset test for it that they are doing with Cyrodiil. The template idea seems great for PvE too, it would increase performance and whittle down some barriers into certain DLC content many people have a hard time with.

Man we get you. We don't want this to happen to you guys. I think you should vent but this just makes your argument look petulant. You have real actual arguments to stand on. No one buys your argument because it's see through. Argue on the merits. Not for something we all know will never happen.

SneaK

twisttop138 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

MSattrtand wrote: »

You're barking up the wrong tree, dawg.

You probably expected to get responses from trial score-pushers like "That's a completely different thing! Vengeance PvP is great, but Vengeance PvE will kill the game!". But in reality, they are much more likely to side with the anti-vengeance crowd, because losing options can't be a good thing, and that's one of the worst things of multiclassing - if HotT and Assassination are so good, there's not really a choice, if you should run them or not.

But from the PvE side of the game, support of Vengeance mostly comes from casuals. And they will be happy to see Vengeance PvE. You know, one-bar Oakensoul HA builds are so popular for a reason - they are trying to simplify the game. It doesn't matter whether it's a PvP or PvE side of it. They can already obtain easily accessible Vengeance gear in PvE in the form of 12 pieces of Shattered Fate, but they do not understand it because they're casuals. They do not understand that sets won't carry them through any content, no matter what it is, Vicious Death or Perfected Null Arca.

So, your ragebait kinda misses the point. Same for your trolling about performance in PvE. Trial folks can tell you a lot about the DSR memory leak, the need to reset the whole vRG after a few wipes on Oax to avoid lag, and more things. You have a right to be disappointed with Vengeance PvP, but at least try not to direct your anger towards the wrong targets.

You got me all wrong. My experience in PvE suffers performance issues and I would like to see a similar ruleset test for it that they are doing with Cyrodiil. The template idea seems great for PvE too, it would increase performance and whittle down some barriers into certain DLC content many people have a hard time with.

Man we get you. We don't want this to happen to you guys. I think you should vent but this just makes your argument look petulant. You have real actual arguments to stand on. No one buys your argument because it's see through. Argue on the merits. Not for something we all know will never happen.

I’m not arguing though.. it seems like the game is heading in the right direction (finally!) and the devs have found a SOLUTION to our performance issues and in turn have made certain activities more accessible to everyone. I just think they should provide the PvE world with the same enhancements PvPers are (finally!) getting.

Also, the lag created by people spamming complicated skills hurts my immersion. I think it would help there too.

salander7

SneaK wrote: »

You got me all wrong. My experience in PvE suffers performance issues and I would like to see a similar ruleset test for it that they are doing with Cyrodiil. The template idea seems great for PvE too, it would increase performance and whittle down some barriers into certain DLC content many people have a hard time with.

Your performance issues in pve seem to be on your end. If the game was crashing every other day on normal activities, we would see a lot more complaints. Everywhere. Addons, wrong installation, settings, hardware issues... multiple possible causes, but it is definitely not a server wide thing.
And yeah, crowded events are crowded, which makes performance iffy, that's how ESO is oriented these days, increase user activity for a week, then back to normal, barking at the wrong issue.

On the "The template idea seems great for PvE too", I'm just going to reply your user quote: IMO, or IYO, in your opinion. Countless pvpers have been all but excited about the feature, since it slashes the whole gameplay. I really can't see how it makes any sense for a game that has sold thousands based on the "Play how you want" trope, and earns millions in ESO+ subscriptions, to make characters a rigid template, and based on your ideas, eliminate the need for crafting and bank. Really, template chars and no need for a subscription, amazing marketing decision.

And sure, the people in favour of making everything easier will often cheer for anything that lets them get a hardmode with minimal effort, but if that's not arcanist or oakensoul at this point, I really don't know what is then.

SneaK

salander7 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

You got me all wrong. My experience in PvE suffers performance issues and I would like to see a similar ruleset test for it that they are doing with Cyrodiil. The template idea seems great for PvE too, it would increase performance and whittle down some barriers into certain DLC content many people have a hard time with.

Your performance issues in pve seem to be on your end. If the game was crashing every other day on normal activities, we would see a lot more complaints. Everywhere. Addons, wrong installation, settings, hardware issues... multiple possible causes, but it is definitely not a server wide thing.
And yeah, crowded events are crowded, which makes performance iffy, that's how ESO is oriented these days, increase user activity for a week, then back to normal, barking at the wrong issue.

On the "The template idea seems great for PvE too", I'm just going to reply your user quote: IMO, or IYO, in your opinion. Countless pvpers have been all but excited about the feature, since it slashes the whole gameplay. I really can't see how it makes any sense for a game that has sold thousands based on the "Play how you want" trope, and earns millions in ESO+ subscriptions, to make characters a rigid template, and based on your ideas, eliminate the need for crafting and bank. Really, template chars and no need for a subscription, amazing marketing decision.

And sure, the people in favour of making everything easier will often cheer for anything that lets them get a hardmode with minimal effort, but if that's not arcanist or oakensoul at this point, I really don't know what is then.

Type in “crash” to the forum search and then say what you just said with a straight face.

Hopefully Oakensoul will be in one of the templates!

Erickson9610

SneaK wrote: »

Hopefully Oakensoul will be in one of the templates!

Vengeance should not have item sets at all. Save that for Gray Host, the more entertaining campaign.

salander7

SneaK wrote: »

salander7 wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

You got me all wrong. My experience in PvE suffers performance issues and I would like to see a similar ruleset test for it that they are doing with Cyrodiil. The template idea seems great for PvE too, it would increase performance and whittle down some barriers into certain DLC content many people have a hard time with.

Your performance issues in pve seem to be on your end. If the game was crashing every other day on normal activities, we would see a lot more complaints. Everywhere. Addons, wrong installation, settings, hardware issues... multiple possible causes, but it is definitely not a server wide thing.
And yeah, crowded events are crowded, which makes performance iffy, that's how ESO is oriented these days, increase user activity for a week, then back to normal, barking at the wrong issue.

On the "The template idea seems great for PvE too", I'm just going to reply your user quote: IMO, or IYO, in your opinion. Countless pvpers have been all but excited about the feature, since it slashes the whole gameplay. I really can't see how it makes any sense for a game that has sold thousands based on the "Play how you want" trope, and earns millions in ESO+ subscriptions, to make characters a rigid template, and based on your ideas, eliminate the need for crafting and bank. Really, template chars and no need for a subscription, amazing marketing decision.

And sure, the people in favour of making everything easier will often cheer for anything that lets them get a hardmode with minimal effort, but if that's not arcanist or oakensoul at this point, I really don't know what is then.

Type in “crash” to the forum search and then say what you just said with a straight face.

Hopefully Oakensoul will be in one of the templates!

Typed it, 15 results in the last week including your message, it'll be 16 with this message since I'm quoting it. Others are using it in this context "I haven't had a crash there in over half a year and as long as you turn off ambient occlusion and turn shadow down to low", so not sure if that helps your point.
I can tell you with whatever face you want, crashes are not a common issue in pve nowadays. If you're suffering a lot of them, it's something wrong on your end. Signed: someone that progged tris when a reset bc someone DCed was as common as a group death.

Nice way answer to all the other things mentioned, though, really solid, it conceals a bit you haven't thought this through more than 30 seconds.

Gabriel_H

SneaK wrote: »

You keep saying this, no, performance tanks in every aspect of the game and specifically in PvE instances more than PvP instances, for me. Again, I’m on new gen Xbox, I don’t see performance issues in Cyrodiil like I do in PvE, it’s far worse in PvE. Every example I give you say is an exception.. okay. At what point can we have a real discussion about the game running better and players options?

Cause IMO, ZOS has a fix for a real problem that would enhance our game, Vengeance ruleset in PvE. Why not? Cause you’ve determined that players who suffer lag outside of PvP don’t deserve the latest and greatest fix for a problem that clearly exists and has for a decade? That’s not your call.

Vengeance ruleset in PvE is the answer.

I'm on a very outdated PC. I have no issues with performance in PvE except in the two very specific cases I have already outlined. I don't know anyone who has performance issues in PvE beyond the occassional lag spikes that are inherant in MMOs.

If you are saying you have performance issues all the time in PvE, that very much sounds like a hardware issue or a problem with your ISP. I say that with confidence because there is no other reasonable explanation. The cause of the problems in PvP are because of the server load from the calcs needed to deal with so many complex skills firing at once from (at present) 360 players - that scenario simply does not exist in PvE.