Would you tolerate Vengeance style testing for PvE?

moderatelyfatman

So if ZOS were to remove all sets and fix skills on specific morphs in order to improve PvE performance, would you still keep playing?

Erickson9610

I actually hope they apply Vengeance rules to the Infinite Archive so that the power of your run comes primarily from your Visions, rather than what you bring into the IA from outside of it.

I can't name another roguelite that has such weak and meaningless perks and instead requires you to bring a build from an entirely different gamemode to progress far in it.

ESO_player123

No

Do we have any glaring issues with PvE performance? I do not think so. At least not to the point where we would need anything like Vengeance in PvE

DenverRalphy

Nope.

And while I'm not particularly a fan of PvP play myself, I'm surprised at the amount of affected play time the PvP playerbase has had to put up with. The first test I thought was reasonable, the second test I didn't give it two thoughts, cuz yeah, PvP isn't my bag. But watching the preview stream where they were talking about how much more vengeance testng was coming up, I remember thinking "At this point, shouldn't this be happening on a test server?".

But yeah. Nope, I wouldn't tolerate it. But then too, if PvE performance were so bad that it needed vengeance style testing, I would have likely already moved on anyway.

Soarora

No

PvE generally doesn’t have a performance problem sourced from abilities but rather instances can become increasingly buggy over time. A Vengence mode wouldn’t fix that problem. I would be okay if my non combat pets were auto turned off in instanced content though, I’ve heard people claim turning them off helps some people. Not sure if true.

LunaFlora

No

why?

tomofhyrule

Is there a reason that it would need to be done, or is this just a "PvPers are being punished with Vengeance so we should also make everyone else play it too so they can see how bad it feels for us" whine?

If so, remember that it's not stated anywhere that Vengeance will be replacing Grey Host. Anywhere. I get it - it's not fun that the Combat team has been taking everyone for a ride lately. And the fact that U48, instead of balancing anything, is focusing exclusively on two week-long 'events' and allowing the nonexistent balance to languish until March is nothing short of insulting. But as much as it seems like ESO is moving toward Vengeance being made permanent, there is no suggestion that Grey Host will be replaced to make room for it (now the other Campaigns on the other hand...)

There's enough to be royally mad about with ESO in its current state without needing to invent new unconfirmed things to be mad at.

DenverRalphy

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Is there a reason that it would need to be done, or is this just a "PvPers are being punished with Vengeance so we should also make everyone else play it too so they can see how bad it feels for us" whine?

If so, remember that it's not stated anywhere that Vengeance will be replacing Grey Host. Anywhere. I get it - it's not fun that the Combat team has been taking everyone for a ride lately. And the fact that U48, instead of balancing anything, is focusing exclusively on two week-long 'events' and allowing the nonexistent balance to languish until March is nothing short of insulting. But as much as it seems like ESO is moving toward Vengeance being made permanent, there is no suggestion that Grey Host will be replaced to make room for it (now the other Campaigns on the other hand...)

There's enough to be royally mad about with ESO in its current state without needing to invent new unconfirmed things to be mad at.

Perhaps I misinterpreted what the OP was asking. But to me it seemed not so much as worry over Vengeance becoming a permanent replacement. But instead that the PvP community is continually having their regularly scheduled programming interrupted with an excessive number of limited interruptions. I think that they'd rather be able to continue playing their game, good or bad as it may be, while ZOS does all their own playtesting elsewhere.

moderatelyfatman

No

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Do we have any glaring issues with PvE performance? I do not think so. At least not to the point where we would need anything like Vengeance in PvE

For people outside PC-NA, performance has become very Cyrodiil like. It wasn't always like this but in Trials, now we have tanks who can't range taunt due to the rubberbanding lag, skills that don't fire and damage that apparently appears out of nowhere and kills players with desync.

We've had to abandon Trials because people keep getting logged out and can't back in again, or the game is too glitchy for it to work properly.

I call this the Cyrodilisation of PvE where things which only happened in PvP are now a thing in PvE. I started noticing it around the end of 2022 and it has gotten steadily worse: some days skills like Streak won't even work in a player's home instance.

That being said and done; I was also making a point that no matter how bad things go in PvE, no one would want to give up all their hard earned item sets and unique class skills for an improvement in performance. It would be a case of giving up some of the best parts of the game in order to play the game.

spartaxoxo

No

No. PvE do be having issues but nearly to the same degree. There's a reason that the biggest PvP gripe has been performance but for PvE it has been class balance.

Hapexamendios

If PVP was my main focus of ESO, I'd have already moved on.

ESO_player123

No

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Do we have any glaring issues with PvE performance? I do not think so. At least not to the point where we would need anything like Vengeance in PvE

For people outside PC-NA, performance has become very Cyrodiil like. It wasn't always like this but in Trials, now we have tanks who can't range taunt due to the rubberbanding lag, skills that don't fire and damage that apparently appears out of nowhere and kills players with desync.

We've had to abandon Trials because people keep getting logged out and can't back in again, or the game is too glitchy for it to work properly.

I call this the Cyrodilisation of PvE where things which only happened in PvP are now a thing in PvE. I started noticing it around the end of 2022 and it has gotten steadily worse: some days skills like Streak won't even work in a player's home instance.

That being said and done; I was also making a point that no matter how bad things go in PvE, no one would want to give up all their hard earned item sets and unique class skills for an improvement in performance. It would be a case of giving up some of the best parts of the game in order to play the game.

Well, I'm mainly on PCNA, so I do not see much issues here.

Renato90085

Maybe (Comment below)

nude normal trial is fun

fizzybeef

Yes

I demand it for acessablity. I feel left out because i cant access skins and titles. I think everyone should be able to get access to them and have fair chances.
I feel discriminated

Stamicka

To actually make this situation comparable to the point you’re trying to make, trial group limits would have to be introduced.

So imagine that 12 man trials became 2 man trials because the game couldn’t support 12 man content anymore. In this scenario I would definitely be ok with ZOS experimenting with ways to bring 12 man content back.

Cyrodiil’s max population has been divided by 6 or more basically. They’re trying to figure out how to get the population caps closer to where they were.

amiiegee

Yes

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Do we have any glaring issues with PvE performance? I do not think so. At least not to the point where we would need anything like Vengeance in PvE

I was also making a point that no matter how bad things go in PvE, no one would want to give up all their hard earned item sets and unique class skills for an improvement in performance. It would be a case of giving up some of the best parts of the game in order to play the game.

Thats the same in PVP tbh.

Arboz

No

Ingenious question, that really shows whats wrong with Vengeance.
I absolutely cant stand it, as I dont want to invest all my time and money and mental efforts in my character, only to be forced to play another character when entering Cyrodiil.
If there were no BGs, I would already have quit the game, because PvP is all that matters for me.

Lord_Hev

Yes

I would absolutely love this. I foresee it having similar pain-points, mainly it becoming stale once the initial charm of it wears off. But it would be nice to get a feel of old craglorn trials again in their proper glory.

colossalvoids

Yeah, we got your point on "veng bad" but the comparison isn't there really if you're on it for more than a minute and actually playing both pve and pvp. Maybe people who weren't able to play their mode for a week weren't around years ago when instance issues were as severe to make some groups not raid for months because most instances had something akin to memory leak degrading performance over time hugely or having it unplayable since the very start of the trial. We already were there, it's different modes with different issues having obviously different solutions if we're talking seriously for a second.

SolarRune

Yes

If the testing was warranted yes, of course. But running trials or dungeons most evenings (PCEU) I don't see performance issues anywhere close to the issues I've seen on live cyro.

lostineternity

LunaFlora wrote: »

why?

obviously to make combat design even worse

Ye_Olde_Crowe

Yes

As long as it served to improve housing- sure!

Gabriel_H

There aren't performance issues in PvE so the question is meaningless.

GloatingSwine

No

There isn't a performance problem in PvE and if there was they would make other changes like reducing instance player limits.

Cyrodiil is where the performance problem is because the design of it is intended to concentrate a larger number of players in one place than any other content in the game.

SkaiFaith

Some worry about PvP, some worry about PvE.
Some worry about Crown Sore, some worry about in-game economy.
Some worry about game's population, some worry about not being banned on forum.

Lots of worries, lots of people who care for the game in general.
Let's not get things worse by teasing each other instead of looking for solutions.

Kendaric

Maybe (Comment below)

Maybe, if it was limited to dungeons, trials and IA.

But if overland content would be affected I'd be gone in a heartbeat.

rothan117

Yes

Vengeance is happening because not enough players go on the test realm to reproduce the server stress and problems occurring in live realm cyrodil. Players want pvp performance fixed but you do not want to do what is needed to isolate the issues so they can be fixed. The problem has been building bit by bit for years, it is not a simple, quick fix.

You really want the issue fixed, just remove all sets etc. Too many variables have built up and are interacting with the addition of new sets with every content release. Result is degrading server performance that increases as population of the cyrodil zone increases. Isolating and fixing the issues requires live load levels, not test server environments.

BXR_Lonestar

Maybe (Comment below)

I say maybe, but these are the conditions that would need to exist in order for me to tolerate it:

1. PVE was experiencing poor server performance similar to what exists in PVP at times; and

2. doing vengence style testing was necessary to isolate the cause and eliminate it; and

3. Vengence style testing was also being implemented to test how animation canceling could be eliminated.

If all three of these conditions existed, then yes, I'd accept vengence style testing - with changes of course to how those skills perform in PVE.

MorallyBipolar

Yes

Gabriel_H wrote: »

There aren't performance issues in PvE so the question is meaningless.

There are performance issues in vet trials and arena's. It's just as bad there as live cyrodiil.

essi2

No

For what purpose?

Radiate77

Yes

As someone who played back when abilities did maybe 2-3 things each, I would love to go back.



Maybe then, skills could be built back up in values to compensate for not having 4-5 different effects, like a buff to Major buffs/debuffs.

Anyone who has had to Nova rotate through the Mage or Assembly General knows exactly what I’m talking about.