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• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Future of Battlegrounds
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NxJoeyD✭✭✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »
lolI've been playing Domination weekend for two months.
I don't think so. I'm still partial to the theory they want to force people to play the objective modes. It's better than just doing whatever for no reason.Did ZOS ever say why they keep doing this?
By the way, finally had time to write an intro to the thread.
Zos is doing everything they can to make sure pvp is anything but pvp. If it's not forcing objectives its introducing ridiculous proc sets that do the work for you. They want pvp to be a safe and happy place where intense competition is not allowed and dying is fun for everyone. Its a safe and happy place. They are the Planet Fitness of mmos.
Planet Fitness is a good analogy.
Personally I feel like it’s just lazy developing .. Rather than taking a good look at BG’s now over the course of all the additions and updates and coming up with creative fixes; they instead just opened the floodgates and said “everybody gets everything” .. and that just made it all worse.
You can’t tell me anyone has really looked at mechanics when we have multiple sources of automatic evasion for projectiles but no such opposing mechanic to auto evade melee strikes. I see players constantly awarded with a dodge while standing or sprinting because of this mechanic so you’re basically telling ranged players to go walk off a short pier? … Abilities like Merci Resolve, Toppling Charge, or Assassins Blade have blisteringly fast execution animations and deal bonkers damage, meanwhile a whole array of skills have these lumbering clumsy animations that make their use so clunky in combat and in some cases not even register by the time the skill fully executes.
Mind you this isn’t something that weaving can address; it’s the nature of the ability mechanics not light attacks.
ZoS are making sandwiches with stale bread here from a mechanics standpoint. That’s literally the meat & potatoes of your game, mechanics. They don’t have to be perfect but they need to present as though they’ve had at least one coat of polish on them and that’s just not the case.Thumbless_Bot wrote: »I’ve been in matches where the opposing team had two Templar healers who would simply alternate being in their Ult so it was literally a persistent, constant, state of massive heals. That Ult is both mobile and un-interruptible. .. Nobody is going to counter that, I don’t care how much experience a player has. That’s because there’s no mechanic to address it.
Not true.
Yes, very true.
Practiced Incantation allows the caster to move and also gains immunity to disabling effects while channeling.
The base cost is only 125 and that has multiple methods of cost reduction, so two Templars can EASILY .. let me stress .. EASILY coordinate popping their Ults back & forth. While one is active the other is genning Ult and vice versa, it’s not hard to do.
With the persistent healing their team can defend them and there’s little the opposing team can do to counter here. They can’t interrupt the casting healer and so much damage is being persistently mitigated.
I’ve seen this more than once. Hence why people are suggesting that outward healing be a factor in MRR and I agree.
"Nobody is going to counter that". Simply not true.
I've killed my share of plars in the middle of their ultimate. Focus them and beat their head in. They will either die during or shortly after their ultimate if you have enough damage.
Think about what you just said and go back and re-read my original statement.
There were TWO healers alternating their Ults .. I should specify that it’s Temp Ults but I can’t say that they were Temps, they were just running that Ult.
You can’t “just focus” the one healer when their whole squad is in proximity. And I don’t mean Zerg ball, I mean group play. You can’t just focus the one healer and numerous attacking players all at the same time.
Sure, if you had a healer and maybe one or two squad mates in their vicinity when you encounter them you can manipulate the fight that way; I’ve done that too. But when their whole squad is in the general area and there’s two strong healers alternating ultimates and heals; that’s not going to happen.
They’re going to do the right thing and cover their healers and that’s what they did. And it’s not as though the other healer wasn’t also providing a heal factor to the casting healer as well. Focusing the casting healer in this case isn’t simply going to be enough.
This is why I mean by there’s no counter to that, there’s no mechanic to deal with alternating, persistent, healing ultimates like that. It’s not one it’s two and as you’re trying to deal damage between the entire enemy squad; additional heals, and factor in the games horrible hit detection and you’re going to have a bad time.
The only real “counter” to that scenario is to, yourself, also have that scenario; two equivalent healers on your side to equal the healing factor they’re outputting; otherwise, more of their outgoing damage will land and less of your teams will; it’s basic math.
But even then, that’s not a mechanical counter that’s a big “maybe” that you’ll get two strong healers like that. I actually just played a match earlier that had 3 of them running on the opposite squad doing the same thing; alternating Temp Ults.
Some abilities and even Mythics that are seen to be extremely strong have a negative downside aspect to encourage balance and counterplay. If these abilities had such a feature, only when BS is active, then maybe we’d be in business.
This isn’t pre-subclassing where any one particular strong ability constituted a lower population occurrence in BG matches; now it’s a lot more of the same ability mechanics all in spam as they’re broken in volume.
-"There were TWO healers alternating their Ults"
And? Kill one, then kill the other.
-"You can’t “just focus” the one healer when their whole squad is in proximity."
Yes you can.
-"Sure, if you had a healer and maybe one or two squad mates in their vicinity when you encounter them you can manipulate the fight that way"
Every single bg is different. Situational awareness is a learned skill in bgs. Figure out what you can and can't do then do it... every time. This is me implicitly saying to you what I am trying my best to not say explicitly.
-"The only real “counter” to that scenario is to, yourself, also have that scenario".
Smashing their face in is an option.
-"This isn’t pre-subclassing where any one particular strong ability constituted a lower population occurrence in BG matches"
The damage and healing shift apllies to everyone, not just the other team.
I've tried my best to give you advice though it's obvious you aren't looking for it. That's all I have to say about this.
“Smashing their face in” isn’t advice .. it’s a lame statement based on nothing.
If what you are saying was accurate then this very thread wouldn’t exist and people wouldn’t keep contributing on a very real and consistent problem with BG’s.
Some of us are trying to point out and identify the mechanical problems that have crept up, before & after U47 that’s ultimately going to push players away from the game.
“The same healing and damage shift applies to everyone” .. well, no; not unless you’re suggesting everyone go and build the meta; then, yes, you’d be correct.
Yes, every BG is different and situational awareness is key, but those aren’t the issues at hand here.
Situational awareness and simply focusing tactics aren’t what’s resulting in the widely one sided squash matches here. A lack of proper strategy plays a factor in outcomes, yes, but that’s been a factor in BG’s LONG before now, that’s not new; that’s not what’s changed suddenly and that’s not what we’re talking about.
You can’t tell everyone that they have to go run a particular type of build, in a game built on build diversity, for the express purpose of getting around bad matchmaking & bad mechanics; the population will drop over time.
If the broad player base could just do what you’re suggesting nobody would be here on this thread.0 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭✭Thumbless_Bot wrote: »Thumbless_Bot wrote: »
lolI've been playing Domination weekend for two months.
I don't think so. I'm still partial to the theory they want to force people to play the objective modes. It's better than just doing whatever for no reason.Did ZOS ever say why they keep doing this?
By the way, finally had time to write an intro to the thread.
Zos is doing everything they can to make sure pvp is anything but pvp. If it's not forcing objectives its introducing ridiculous proc sets that do the work for you. They want pvp to be a safe and happy place where intense competition is not allowed and dying is fun for everyone. Its a safe and happy place. They are the Planet Fitness of mmos.
Planet Fitness is a good analogy.
Personally I feel like it’s just lazy developing .. Rather than taking a good look at BG’s now over the course of all the additions and updates and coming up with creative fixes; they instead just opened the floodgates and said “everybody gets everything” .. and that just made it all worse.
You can’t tell me anyone has really looked at mechanics when we have multiple sources of automatic evasion for projectiles but no such opposing mechanic to auto evade melee strikes. I see players constantly awarded with a dodge while standing or sprinting because of this mechanic so you’re basically telling ranged players to go walk off a short pier? … Abilities like Merci Resolve, Toppling Charge, or Assassins Blade have blisteringly fast execution animations and deal bonkers damage, meanwhile a whole array of skills have these lumbering clumsy animations that make their use so clunky in combat and in some cases not even register by the time the skill fully executes.
Mind you this isn’t something that weaving can address; it’s the nature of the ability mechanics not light attacks.
ZoS are making sandwiches with stale bread here from a mechanics standpoint. That’s literally the meat & potatoes of your game, mechanics. They don’t have to be perfect but they need to present as though they’ve had at least one coat of polish on them and that’s just not the case.Thumbless_Bot wrote: »I’ve been in matches where the opposing team had two Templar healers who would simply alternate being in their Ult so it was literally a persistent, constant, state of massive heals. That Ult is both mobile and un-interruptible. .. Nobody is going to counter that, I don’t care how much experience a player has. That’s because there’s no mechanic to address it.
Not true.
Yes, very true.
Practiced Incantation allows the caster to move and also gains immunity to disabling effects while channeling.
The base cost is only 125 and that has multiple methods of cost reduction, so two Templars can EASILY .. let me stress .. EASILY coordinate popping their Ults back & forth. While one is active the other is genning Ult and vice versa, it’s not hard to do.
With the persistent healing their team can defend them and there’s little the opposing team can do to counter here. They can’t interrupt the casting healer and so much damage is being persistently mitigated.
I’ve seen this more than once. Hence why people are suggesting that outward healing be a factor in MRR and I agree.
"Nobody is going to counter that". Simply not true.
I've killed my share of plars in the middle of their ultimate. Focus them and beat their head in. They will either die during or shortly after their ultimate if you have enough damage.
Think about what you just said and go back and re-read my original statement.
There were TWO healers alternating their Ults .. I should specify that it’s Temp Ults but I can’t say that they were Temps, they were just running that Ult.
You can’t “just focus” the one healer when their whole squad is in proximity. And I don’t mean Zerg ball, I mean group play. You can’t just focus the one healer and numerous attacking players all at the same time.
Sure, if you had a healer and maybe one or two squad mates in their vicinity when you encounter them you can manipulate the fight that way; I’ve done that too. But when their whole squad is in the general area and there’s two strong healers alternating ultimates and heals; that’s not going to happen.
They’re going to do the right thing and cover their healers and that’s what they did. And it’s not as though the other healer wasn’t also providing a heal factor to the casting healer as well. Focusing the casting healer in this case isn’t simply going to be enough.
This is why I mean by there’s no counter to that, there’s no mechanic to deal with alternating, persistent, healing ultimates like that. It’s not one it’s two and as you’re trying to deal damage between the entire enemy squad; additional heals, and factor in the games horrible hit detection and you’re going to have a bad time.
The only real “counter” to that scenario is to, yourself, also have that scenario; two equivalent healers on your side to equal the healing factor they’re outputting; otherwise, more of their outgoing damage will land and less of your teams will; it’s basic math.
But even then, that’s not a mechanical counter that’s a big “maybe” that you’ll get two strong healers like that. I actually just played a match earlier that had 3 of them running on the opposite squad doing the same thing; alternating Temp Ults.
Some abilities and even Mythics that are seen to be extremely strong have a negative downside aspect to encourage balance and counterplay. If these abilities had such a feature, only when BS is active, then maybe we’d be in business.
This isn’t pre-subclassing where any one particular strong ability constituted a lower population occurrence in BG matches; now it’s a lot more of the same ability mechanics all in spam as they’re broken in volume.
-"There were TWO healers alternating their Ults"
And? Kill one, then kill the other.
-"You can’t “just focus” the one healer when their whole squad is in proximity."
Yes you can.
-"Sure, if you had a healer and maybe one or two squad mates in their vicinity when you encounter them you can manipulate the fight that way"
Every single bg is different. Situational awareness is a learned skill in bgs. Figure out what you can and can't do then do it... every time. This is me implicitly saying to you what I am trying my best to not say explicitly.
-"The only real “counter” to that scenario is to, yourself, also have that scenario".
Smashing their face in is an option.
-"This isn’t pre-subclassing where any one particular strong ability constituted a lower population occurrence in BG matches"
The damage and healing shift apllies to everyone, not just the other team.
I've tried my best to give you advice though it's obvious you aren't looking for it. That's all I have to say about this.
“Smashing their face in” isn’t advice .. it’s a lame statement based on nothing.
If what you are saying was accurate then this very thread wouldn’t exist and people wouldn’t keep contributing on a very real and consistent problem with BG’s.
Some of us are trying to point out and identify the mechanical problems that have crept up, before & after U47 that’s ultimately going to push players away from the game.
“The same healing and damage shift applies to everyone” .. well, no; not unless you’re suggesting everyone go and build the meta; then, yes, you’d be correct.
Yes, every BG is different and situational awareness is key, but those aren’t the issues at hand here.
Situational awareness and simply focusing tactics aren’t what’s resulting in the widely one sided squash matches here. A lack of proper strategy plays a factor in outcomes, yes, but that’s been a factor in BG’s LONG before now, that’s not new; that’s not what’s changed suddenly and that’s not what we’re talking about.
You can’t tell everyone that they have to go run a particular type of build, in a game built on build diversity, for the express purpose of getting around bad matchmaking & bad mechanics; the population will drop over time.
If the broad player base could just do what you’re suggesting nobody would be here on this thread.
There is so mich wrong with this it is obviously not worth continuing to engage. Take care.Edited by Thumbless_Bot on 13 September 2025 00:370