Upcoming U47 PTS changes, based on feedback

Overamera

Why remove the extra magicka from bound aegis. As a magicka sorcerer with hardened ward you need all the magicka you can get. With subclass now magsorc is mega super weak. You nerfed hardened ward while buffing everything else with subclass and now you keep nerfing magsorc by removing mag from bound aegis.

MashmalloMan

ZOS_Amy wrote: »

Finally, we'll be looking at our Sorcerer adjustments and reiterating and reverting some of the adjustments based on your feedback:

• Lightning Form will again grant Major Resolve instead of Minor Force to retain its unique damage/defensive hybrid effect.
• Bound Armor will again grant Minor Protection at base rather than Major Resolve. Additionally, the active effect of the abilities will now scale in duration with your Armor, rather than a flat amount.
  • The max Magicka and Stamina increase from the ability and its morphs have been moved to Dark Magic, which will exist on the Blood Magic passive.
  • Bound Armaments will have a higher chance of applying Sundered, so it reaches a closer power level to the Grim Focus morphs.

So you completely left out the fact that the Max Magicka/Stamina you shifted is hidden behind 3 conditional states. Why is this so convoluted?!

1. Cast a Dark Magic skill.
2. Be at full health.
3. Lasts only 10 seconds.

You also left out the fact that Minor Force has been completely removed from all 3 Sorcerer skill lines. Why?

Bound Armaments starting at 3% status effect chance (single target dot) even though it's single target direct attack (10%), and going to 15% is hardly a buff, 5% more than what it should be is negligble at best. Jabs was also given improved status effect chance going from 5% to 15% for 3x, and it's an aoe spammable that can be used much more frequently. BA needs to be fixed, treated as 10% for base, and get the same 3x for 30% total.

I feel like U47 was just a bunch of neutral/horizontal changes that somehow resulted in nerfs despite acting like they're buffs. Reality is, no one is going to use Dark Magic or Daedric Summoning so you didn't really accomplish what you set out to do. Storm Calling although decent - great even, is right back to the place it started at.

hoangdz

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ZOS_Amy wrote: »

Finally, we'll be looking at our Sorcerer adjustments and reiterating and reverting some of the adjustments based on your feedback:

• Lightning Form will again grant Major Resolve instead of Minor Force to retain its unique damage/defensive hybrid effect.
• Bound Armor will again grant Minor Protection at base rather than Major Resolve. Additionally, the active effect of the abilities will now scale in duration with your Armor, rather than a flat amount.
  • The max Magicka and Stamina increase from the ability and its morphs have been moved to Dark Magic, which will exist on the Blood Magic passive.
  • Bound Armaments will have a higher chance of applying Sundered, so it reaches a closer power level to the Grim Focus morphs.

So you completely left out the fact that the Max Magicka/Stamina you shifted is hidden behind 3 conditional states. Why is this so convoluted?!

1. Cast a Dark Magic skill.
2. Be at full health.
3. Lasts only 10 seconds.

You also left out the fact that Minor Force has been completely removed from all 3 Sorcerer skill lines. Why?

Bound Armaments starting at 3% status effect chance and going to 15% is hardly a buff, 5% more than what it should be at 10% is negligible at best.

I feel like U47 was just a bunch of neutral/horisontal changes that somehow resulted in nerfs despite acting like they're buffs. Reality is, no one is going to use Dark Magic or Daedric Summoning so you didn't really accomplish what you set out to do.

Basically Sorc lost damage, and now has to juggle more stuff than before lol

ZhuJiuyin

The new changes to Sorc are not good

Previously, Sorc could get 13% of the maximum resources permanently (8% from Bound Armaments/Bound Aegis + 5% from Expert Summoner) through a single skill line (Daedric Summoning),
but now they have to use two skill lines (Daedric Summoning + Dark Magic) to get 15% of the maximum resources (5% from Expert Summoner + 10% from new Blood Magic, and it only lasts for 10 seconds)
This is completely unfavorable for Sorc subclassing, and it weakens the rationality of using Daedric Summoning because it loses 8% of the maximum resources (about 200wd), and it will not make Dark Magic more attractive, because the other skills and passives of this line are still very poor, there are too many dead skills, and Dark Magic needs more buffs than other class skills and passives to become usable in subclassing.

And the maximum resource is now very unattractive, because in U47, Bahsei and Coral were changed to reach the maximum value at 50% resource, because if you have too many maximum resources, it may make it difficult for you to control the resources below 50%. Unless the damage calculation method is changed, the damage based on the maximum resource is not so worth investing now.

In addition, on the first day of the release of "Upcoming U47 PTS changes, based on feedback", I raised feedback and asked "Dark Exchange will re-grant Minor Force?", and this week's patch just confirmed my concerns. Minor Force was removed without any compensation.

The changes in v11.1.3 did not make Sorc better, and it can even be said to be another level of nerf.

Gardarik

I am not sure why, in the Shadow line, the healing is now empowered during block. For what? In PvE, you do not have to move like crazy every second, so either works. In PvP, dark cloak is a potent ability that allows one to heal at the expense of needed mobility. Now you are further feeding the blocktank ridiculous gameplay and for those who actually use this ability to heal, you force them to sit in block and lose stamina/mana. While it is not critical, I simply see no logic in the change, nor have I seen any developers' comments.

RaisedByShadow

Really sad to see that the blade still get the nerf. I don't understand it tbh the Blade is already not the best class in the game and with that change of the grimm focus you going to destroy a pure blade which sucks because it is my main and only character. Before subclassing it was already hard to deal good damage with the blade and now it will be impossible without subclassing... You could change the grim focus like that: If the Base class is a blade we still get the weapon damage or if we use the skill we get for 10 or 20 seconds the weapon damage but don't take it away. What should we do with even more crit? Beside that that buff we already get from many other stuff like skill or tank/heal sets from raid group. Please do not destroy the Blade even more only because arc or sorc are too OP with subclassing. ARC and sorc was already OP before subclassing was a thing. The only ones you will hurt with that change are casual Players like me. This will hit the casual Nightblade really hard. I hope you think about and remove that terrible nerf

Zyaneth_Bal

Stats transfer from bound armour to blood magic turns out to be not a simple power shift but yet another nerf to sorcerer, and to daedric summoning of all lines that has fallen behind as is, only seeing use as a flavour line in pve or to fill spare slots with pets’ free damage, while also being one of the weakest lines in pvp.

This change only makes sorcerer even harder to subclass. Power has been taken from already weak daedric summoning, while dark magic suffers from much deeper issues that some stat boost has no effect on.
Not to mention that the stat boost isn’t even guaranteed but has a condition that isn’t easy to fulfill reliably, anywhere outside of group pve. Making it a nerf even to “pure” sorcerer.

Please, just add this bonus to expert summoner or something, it’s very weak anyway. Don’t split max stats between lines, and stop nerfing already weak lines, buff them instead.

knifeinthedark

This next update is not the solution. As a core nightblade I keep getting nerf after nerf simply because my passives which were never meant to be combined with other class passives are now being used for just that, and I have to take the penalty for it?

This is so unbelievably wrong. Find another way. Leave my merciless resolve and ulti passives alone.

YandereGirlfriend

knifeinthedark wrote: »

This next update is not the solution. As a core nightblade I keep getting nerf after nerf simply because my passives which were never meant to be combined with other class passives are now being used for just that, and I have to take the penalty for it?

This is so unbelievably wrong. Find another way. Leave my merciless resolve and ulti passives alone.

Merciless never needed nor deserved the WD giga-buff to begin with. That was completely cray-cray when it happened and it's finally getting rectified.

But that power should be moved into Shadow in some form or another (preferably tied to the USE of an actual ability) because Shadow is a completely dead skill line at the moment.

FoJul

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

knifeinthedark wrote: »

This next update is not the solution. As a core nightblade I keep getting nerf after nerf simply because my passives which were never meant to be combined with other class passives are now being used for just that, and I have to take the penalty for it?

This is so unbelievably wrong. Find another way. Leave my merciless resolve and ulti passives alone.

Merciless never needed nor deserved the WD giga-buff to begin with. That was completely cray-cray when it happened and it's finally getting rectified.

But that power should be moved into Shadow in some form or another (preferably tied to the USE of an actual ability) because Shadow is a completely dead skill line at the moment.

nah buff swallow soul

CheenTheCat

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

knifeinthedark wrote: »

This next update is not the solution. As a core nightblade I keep getting nerf after nerf simply because my passives which were never meant to be combined with other class passives are now being used for just that, and I have to take the penalty for it?

This is so unbelievably wrong. Find another way. Leave my merciless resolve and ulti passives alone.

Merciless never needed nor deserved the WD giga-buff to begin with. That was completely cray-cray when it happened and it's finally getting rectified.

But that power should be moved into Shadow in some form or another (preferably tied to the USE of an actual ability) because Shadow is a completely dead skill line at the moment.

100% Agreed! Don't nuke pure NB for Subclassing's sake

stimpy986b14_ESO

Great now revert the ridiculous Grim Focus change and give the stacks a non-refreshing 10s duration so you need to continue light/heavy attacking to retain the buff.

Zyaneth_Bal

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

knifeinthedark wrote: »

This next update is not the solution. As a core nightblade I keep getting nerf after nerf simply because my passives which were never meant to be combined with other class passives are now being used for just that, and I have to take the penalty for it?

This is so unbelievably wrong. Find another way. Leave my merciless resolve and ulti passives alone.

Merciless never needed nor deserved the WD giga-buff to begin with. That was completely cray-cray when it happened and it's finally getting rectified.

But that power should be moved into Shadow in some form or another (preferably tied to the USE of an actual ability) because Shadow is a completely dead skill line at the moment.

Indeed grim focus has long been one of the most loaded skill sin the game , it's only proper to put it more in line. However, this hurts pure nb the most, and shadow line could use a power bump at the same time. So just transfer that power from grim focus to shadow.

gc0018

"Bound Armor: The max Magicka and Stamina increase from the ability and its morphs have been moved to Dark Magic, which will exist on the Blood Magic passive."

So, after a series of dramas, ZOS changed nothing but nerf the Bound Armor. ROFL at sorc.

CheenTheCat

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

knifeinthedark wrote: »

This next update is not the solution. As a core nightblade I keep getting nerf after nerf simply because my passives which were never meant to be combined with other class passives are now being used for just that, and I have to take the penalty for it?

This is so unbelievably wrong. Find another way. Leave my merciless resolve and ulti passives alone.

Merciless never needed nor deserved the WD giga-buff to begin with. That was completely cray-cray when it happened and it's finally getting rectified.

But that power should be moved into Shadow in some form or another (preferably tied to the USE of an actual ability) because Shadow is a completely dead skill line at the moment.

Indeed grim focus has long been one of the most loaded skill sin the game , it's only proper to put it more in line. However, this hurts pure nb the most, and shadow line could use a power bump at the same time. So just transfer that power from grim focus to shadow.

If they can shift things between other class lines, they should be able to do so for NB as well..!

Shadow is such a fun Skill Line thematically, I've been waiting for it to finally get an opportunity to receive the boost it needs, and THIS IS IT!

ZhuJiuyin

A simple change to keep pure class NB and Sorc competitive and still suitable for subclassing.

1. Move the wd lost by Grim Focus to Shadowy Disguise in Shadow. Since Shadowy Disguise lost Major Prophecy and Major Savagery in U47, gaining some wd should be a reasonable compensation. Just set the effect to: "When Shadowy Disguise begins or ends, increase your damage done to monsters by 10%, and increase 300 wd for 10 seconds"

2. Exploitation, in order to avoid being too similar to Hemorrhage, but still be able to compete with it, you can add "increase direct damage caused by 6%". 6% direct damage is not a particularly high buff, although it may enhance Fatecarver, but considering that many people have already obtained 5% class damage from Solar Barrage, it is still reasonable to let Exploitation provide 6% direct damage.

3. Add a 20-second dot to Manifestation of Terror and Shattering Spines after they hit the target, so that they can play a better role in PVE. There are many ways to remove negative effects in PVP now, so it will not have a big impact on PVP.

4. Blood Magic has been changed from the maximum resource of U47 to increase critical damage and critical treatment by 8%.

5. The damage caused by Veil of Blades and Suppression Field has been increased, and the former will provide Major Force to the team after enabling synergy, and the latter will cause Major Brittle to the damaged target. This will allow both to compete with other damage-type ultimate skills.

DarkWitcher2511

Please stop killing NB. With every update, you destroy this class; it's practically unplayable now. Every time you nerf invisibility, then remove penetration, nerf grim focus, and in this update you kill grim focus even more. NB is already far inferior to other classes such as the Templar and Necromancer. I beg you to listen and stop. How much more can you take? I started this game as an NB, tried all the classes, and came back to NB. Many people like it, they like to play the assassin gameplay, and as a class, it is very attractive to different players, each with their own philosophy and gameplay. But now you are simply destroying the NB as a class, making it unusable in both PvE and PvP content. I understand that you can create another class and play with it, but my heart will always remain with the NB. Please listen and stop destroying the NB.

Nag1saKaw0ru

Nah, they don't listen. And players of other classes are all too happy to see us in the trash can because GrIm FoCuS bAd when used by subclassed Arcanists.

randconfig

hoangdz wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ZOS_Amy wrote: »

Finally, we'll be looking at our Sorcerer adjustments and reiterating and reverting some of the adjustments based on your feedback:

• Lightning Form will again grant Major Resolve instead of Minor Force to retain its unique damage/defensive hybrid effect.
• Bound Armor will again grant Minor Protection at base rather than Major Resolve. Additionally, the active effect of the abilities will now scale in duration with your Armor, rather than a flat amount.
  • The max Magicka and Stamina increase from the ability and its morphs have been moved to Dark Magic, which will exist on the Blood Magic passive.
  • Bound Armaments will have a higher chance of applying Sundered, so it reaches a closer power level to the Grim Focus morphs.

So you completely left out the fact that the Max Magicka/Stamina you shifted is hidden behind 3 conditional states. Why is this so convoluted?!

1. Cast a Dark Magic skill.
2. Be at full health.
3. Lasts only 10 seconds.

You also left out the fact that Minor Force has been completely removed from all 3 Sorcerer skill lines. Why?

Bound Armaments starting at 3% status effect chance and going to 15% is hardly a buff, 5% more than what it should be at 10% is negligible at best.

I feel like U47 was just a bunch of neutral/horisontal changes that somehow resulted in nerfs despite acting like they're buffs. Reality is, no one is going to use Dark Magic or Daedric Summoning so you didn't really accomplish what you set out to do.

Basically Sorc lost damage, and now has to juggle more stuff than before lol

To be fair, pre-subclassing Sorc was overpowered and needed nerfed, post-subclassing everyone and their uncle runs Storm Calling skill line. The class is still strong and arguably the overall nerf was needed (at least for PvP).

preevious

randconfig wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ZOS_Amy wrote: »

Finally, we'll be looking at our Sorcerer adjustments and reiterating and reverting some of the adjustments based on your feedback:

• Lightning Form will again grant Major Resolve instead of Minor Force to retain its unique damage/defensive hybrid effect.
• Bound Armor will again grant Minor Protection at base rather than Major Resolve. Additionally, the active effect of the abilities will now scale in duration with your Armor, rather than a flat amount.
  • The max Magicka and Stamina increase from the ability and its morphs have been moved to Dark Magic, which will exist on the Blood Magic passive.
  • Bound Armaments will have a higher chance of applying Sundered, so it reaches a closer power level to the Grim Focus morphs.

So you completely left out the fact that the Max Magicka/Stamina you shifted is hidden behind 3 conditional states. Why is this so convoluted?!

1. Cast a Dark Magic skill.
2. Be at full health.
3. Lasts only 10 seconds.

You also left out the fact that Minor Force has been completely removed from all 3 Sorcerer skill lines. Why?

Bound Armaments starting at 3% status effect chance and going to 15% is hardly a buff, 5% more than what it should be at 10% is negligible at best.

I feel like U47 was just a bunch of neutral/horisontal changes that somehow resulted in nerfs despite acting like they're buffs. Reality is, no one is going to use Dark Magic or Daedric Summoning so you didn't really accomplish what you set out to do.

Basically Sorc lost damage, and now has to juggle more stuff than before lol

To be fair, pre-subclassing Sorc was overpowered and needed nerfed, post-subclassing everyone and their uncle runs Storm Calling skill line. The class is still strong and arguably the overall nerf was needed (at least for PvP).

You should really preface those posts by "in PvP, ...'.

Because PvE exists, too, and sorc aren't really OP, there ..

gc0018

everyone is using assassin, spear and beam, ZOS only think of dumping *** change to Sorc.

randconfig

preevious wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ZOS_Amy wrote: »

Finally, we'll be looking at our Sorcerer adjustments and reiterating and reverting some of the adjustments based on your feedback:

• Lightning Form will again grant Major Resolve instead of Minor Force to retain its unique damage/defensive hybrid effect.
• Bound Armor will again grant Minor Protection at base rather than Major Resolve. Additionally, the active effect of the abilities will now scale in duration with your Armor, rather than a flat amount.
  • The max Magicka and Stamina increase from the ability and its morphs have been moved to Dark Magic, which will exist on the Blood Magic passive.
  • Bound Armaments will have a higher chance of applying Sundered, so it reaches a closer power level to the Grim Focus morphs.

So you completely left out the fact that the Max Magicka/Stamina you shifted is hidden behind 3 conditional states. Why is this so convoluted?!

1. Cast a Dark Magic skill.
2. Be at full health.
3. Lasts only 10 seconds.

You also left out the fact that Minor Force has been completely removed from all 3 Sorcerer skill lines. Why?

Bound Armaments starting at 3% status effect chance and going to 15% is hardly a buff, 5% more than what it should be at 10% is negligible at best.

I feel like U47 was just a bunch of neutral/horisontal changes that somehow resulted in nerfs despite acting like they're buffs. Reality is, no one is going to use Dark Magic or Daedric Summoning so you didn't really accomplish what you set out to do.

Basically Sorc lost damage, and now has to juggle more stuff than before lol

To be fair, pre-subclassing Sorc was overpowered and needed nerfed, post-subclassing everyone and their uncle runs Storm Calling skill line. The class is still strong and arguably the overall nerf was needed (at least for PvP).

You should really preface those posts by "in PvP, ...'.

Because PvE exists, too, and sorc aren't really OP, there ..

I don't play sorc PvE, so that's why I added a caveat at the end: "(at least for PvP)"

Rhonemus

Except that the classes are not balanced, ESPECIALLY for "Pure" classes vs subclasses.

Subclassed skills should be a weaker...more "Watered Down" version of all non-class skills and abilities. Thus leaving "Pure" classes THEIR full strength skills/abilities.

Otherwise, there is no advantage too, or for any classes wanting to remain "Pure", as it is simply put, unfair to them.

YandereGirlfriend

Rhonemus wrote: »

Except that the classes are not balanced, ESPECIALLY for "Pure" classes vs subclasses.

Subclassed skills should be a weaker...more "Watered Down" version of all non-class skills and abilities. Thus leaving "Pure" classes THEIR full strength skills/abilities.

Otherwise, there is no advantage too, or for any classes wanting to remain "Pure", as it is simply put, unfair to them.

Pure classes are no better or worse than any other subclassed variant.

They should not lose power due to subclassing but neither should they be rewarded for not using subclassing.

Rhonemus

@YandereGirlfriend

They absolutely are. Which is why they admitted to nerfing skills, even just to make room for the subclassing. This, in itself, is the proof. Also, with the upcoming changes.

tomofhyrule

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Rhonemus wrote: »

Except that the classes are not balanced, ESPECIALLY for "Pure" classes vs subclasses.

Subclassed skills should be a weaker...more "Watered Down" version of all non-class skills and abilities. Thus leaving "Pure" classes THEIR full strength skills/abilities.

Otherwise, there is no advantage too, or for any classes wanting to remain "Pure", as it is simply put, unfair to them.

Pure classes are no better or worse than any other subclassed variant.

They should not lose power due to subclassing but neither should they be rewarded for not using subclassing.

Well, right now they have absolutely lost power compared to how they were in U45, so yes Subclassing did make them lose power. Also, all of the nerfs that target "this skill is overperforming" in U46 and U47 are specifically targeting them as overperforming when combined with something else via Subclassing.

So yes, "they should not lose power due to subclassing." But they did. So what should the solution be to make sure that pureclasses and Subclassed builds are on the same level, considering Sobclassing allows people to stack passives like they are?
Seems this "these passives don't stack" that they're putting on for U47 is a great step - pureclasses still have their unique ult gen passives, but you can't get all of your lines stacking ult for breathing. Seems we could consider the same idea for things like crit as well...

Renato90085

tomofhyrule wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Rhonemus wrote: »

Except that the classes are not balanced, ESPECIALLY for "Pure" classes vs subclasses.

Subclassed skills should be a weaker...more "Watered Down" version of all non-class skills and abilities. Thus leaving "Pure" classes THEIR full strength skills/abilities.

Otherwise, there is no advantage too, or for any classes wanting to remain "Pure", as it is simply put, unfair to them.

Pure classes are no better or worse than any other subclassed variant.

They should not lose power due to subclassing but neither should they be rewarded for not using subclassing.

Well, right now they have absolutely lost power compared to how they were in U45, so yes Subclassing did make them lose power. Also, all of the nerfs that target "this skill is overperforming" in U46 and U47 are specifically targeting them as overperforming when combined with something else via Subclassing.

So yes, "they should not lose power due to subclassing." But they did. So what should the solution be to make sure that pureclasses and Subclassed builds are on the same level, considering Sobclassing allows people to stack passives like they are?
Seems this "these passives don't stack" that they're putting on for U47 is a great step - pureclasses still have their unique ult gen passives, but you can't get all of your lines stacking ult for breathing. Seems we could consider the same idea for things like crit as well...

and dmg buff
like my VLC unstoppable run ,dps use Standard of Might and Soul Harvest own 35% free dmg buff
it why all pure class no any advantage
and standard of might have 15% def (for dd is a free10k armor),so you tank than all dd build, and not
sacrifice any thing here

Nag1saKaw0ru

Considering the latest PTS changes are from the *last* week of PTS, that's it then? RIP my pure Nightblade main? No chances of un-nerfing?

JaxontheUnfortunate

Yeah it’s last week so basically this is how u47 will look like when it drops in a couple weeks.