After the recent restructuring at ZOS, I'm worried for ESO's future.

Erickson9610 · July 2

Simply put, I worry that ESO's future is in jeopardy due to the recent layoffs. I know it's easy to reassure the consumers that things will keep moving forward — and they might — but we've seen incredible talent be dismissed even after releasing financially successful projects.

I just hope ESO will survive for a few more years at least — even if it means doubling down on monetization to keep ESO financially relevant for ZOS.

Desiato · July 2

I'm not worried in an existential sense because TES is such a valuable IP and ESO could function on life support for years or decades most likely.

Further, I think ESO has already begun transitioning to its next stage.

The first warning sign was last year when they abruptly cancelled their anniversary tour. Then we saw backend mail and trader efficiencies. There were probably a lot more efficiencies implemented that are largely invisible to us.

Then we learned there wouldn't be a new chapter this year. Instead, we've transitioned to a content pass system that so far relies on heavy reuse of existing art assets. Plus no cinematic trailer. So the budget was much lower this year, most likely.

It's an 11 year old game. It wasn't going to keep rolling out major expansions forever. But I don't think any of this spells the end of ESO at all. The TES IP is incredibly valuable so Microsoft should be motivated to protect its reputation.

However, I am a little worried we may see changes in the monetization strategy.

Keep in mind the project that was cancelled had been in development since 2018. Most games in development for that long are not released -- especially in this case because it was greenlit under a different owner. Microsoft bought Zenimax for the TES/Fallout/id IPs and everything else was expendable.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · July 2

My thoughts would be that it's more likely ESO gets content now that the new MMO is cancelled? But also feels bad for all the people working on the new MMO since 2018.

Thysbe · July 2

I see it the other way round - with no new high attention project in competition with ESO all remaining resources will be focused on ESO as a the sole cash cow.

From what scarce information we have ESO still seems to be going well - at least on subscriptions and micro transactions, not so sure about the season pass. Low effort, low risk, safe cash - no sound manager would decide to close down a safe cash cow with a stable player base and a decent amount of whales.

LadyGP · July 2

ESO isn't going anywhere - it makes too much money for the studio to let it just disappear.

Stamicka · July 2

From my POV the game is at rock bottom already, there's not much more that can worsen. I'm hoping to see a fresh vision for the game.

Vaqual · July 2

I obviously don't know their reasons, but it seems more than sensible to me to scrap the new IP. New MMOs just aren't what keep high player engagement, "ripened" MMOs do. Diluting their own customer base for a couple launch sales probably won't cover the losses that a slowed development on two fronts would incur. If the innovation is not great enough it just won't have enough pull over the cost sunk in other games for a lot of customers. And the new game shine tends to wear off rather quickly.
Bioware could have had a smooth gig with SWTOR, but that was apparently not good enough. Hell, I even think Funcom would be better off reviving its older games rather than making that Dune game, but at least there is a market for that IP. I don't know if this is necessarily the consequence of this cancellation, but doubling down on ESO seems to be the smart move. I don't really need any more MMOs with arrested development in my collection.

C_Inside · July 2

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Simply put, I worry that ESO's future is in jeopardy due to the recent layoffs. I know it's easy to reassure the consumers that things will keep moving forward — and they might — but we've seen incredible talent be dismissed even after releasing financially successful projects.

I just hope ESO will survive for a few more years at least — even if it means doubling down on microtransactions to keep ESO financially relevant for ZOS.

If you're worried about ESO's future then now's the time to look into the Stop Killing Games campaign that's going on in Europe and sign it if you can. If it passes then ZOS will most likely be required by law to implement an end of life plan for ESO to insure that people that payed for it can still access it at least to some degree.

Elowen_Starveil · July 2

I think a lot of people don't understand how these things work. Studios are managed on their own balance sheets, and projects within the studios are managed on their own outlook. Everything in the art world (movies and TV) seems to be managed roughly the same way. So, no, the people working on this unrevealed MMO that had been in development for SEVEN YEARS won't be moved over to ESO. (At least, not in numbers.)

People also like to reiterate the talking point that ESO has made a lot of money since it was launched, but that doesn't mean that it's financials are self-supporting, or at a run-rate that makes their Microsoft overlords happy. The fact is that we don't know anything about the balance sheet, and I'd give a strong side-eye to anyone who thinks they do.

I objected to the Activision and Blizzard mergers all over social media, and was shouted down as a Sony fanboy. These things *always* happen. When ZOS made their comments about ESO having made $2B over the course of its life at the Amsterdam event, I pointed out that this felt *exactly* like posturing to help with the inevitable post-merger reckoning.

Meanwhile, I remind everyone that Microsoft's revenue and income look like... this...

Parasaurolophus · July 2

Why did everyone decide that after the cancellation of the new project all the company's efforts would go to eso?

Juju_beans · July 2

I came to ESO years ago because another big name MMORPG did the very same thing.
And key people left the company.

Faulgor · July 2

Absolutely gutted. Was really looking forward to their new project, especially because Tuttle worked on it.

Wonder if he'll come back to ESO now?

Desiato · July 2

C_Inside wrote: »

If you're worried about ESO's future then now's the time to look into the Stop Killing Games campaign that's going on in Europe and sign it if you can. If it passes then ZOS will most likely be required by law to implement an end of life plan for ESO to insure that people that payed for it can still access it at least to some degree.

I can't see this going anywhere. Our world is under pressure from many crises simultaneously. There are simply much bigger fish to fry across the board. Fish that threaten our existence.

Especially for a live services game. A single player game is different because the studio could simply remove the copy protection or the law could enable a 3rd party to do that as happens in the case of abandonware.

The actual key is to make sure one is enjoying the moment. Everything is fleeting. Even our solar system from the eyes of the universe. All good things must come to an end. Be prepared to let go when the time comes because it is inevitable.

spartaxoxo · July 2

I've been worried for a while now. Even if ESO continues forward at the same pace. This is definitely an end of an era

Vaqual · July 2

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Why did everyone decide that after the cancellation of the new project all the company's efforts would go to eso?

Because if a new game loses the company 200 million after launch it affects all studios that belong to the parent company. The money needs to come from somewhere, especially if it is siphoned out of the revenue of other studios to make new projects happen.

C_Inside · July 2

Desiato wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

If you're worried about ESO's future then now's the time to look into the Stop Killing Games campaign that's going on in Europe and sign it if you can. If it passes then ZOS will most likely be required by law to implement an end of life plan for ESO to insure that people that payed for it can still access it at least to some degree.

I can't see this going anywhere. Our world is under pressure from many crises simultaneously. There are simply much bigger fish to fry across the board. Fish that threaten our existence.

On the contrary, it will go somewhere if it reaches 1 million signatures by the 31st of July. If this happens the petition will be taken to congress and they will be required by international law to review and consider it. Considering it had around 430K signatures just a week ago and is now sitting at 864K, and that big youtubers such as penginz0, Asmongold, The Act Man, SomeOrdinaryGamers, Jackscepticeye (in a community post), Pewdiepie (on Twitter) and even Elon Musk (via a Twitter repost) have shown support, I'm pretty confident that it will reach the threshold. Still, the more people that sign it the better. Some of the signatures will most likely be invalid so ideally a couple of thousand over the 1 million requirement will be ideal.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · July 2

C_Inside wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

If you're worried about ESO's future then now's the time to look into the Stop Killing Games campaign that's going on in Europe and sign it if you can. If it passes then ZOS will most likely be required by law to implement an end of life plan for ESO to insure that people that payed for it can still access it at least to some degree.

I can't see this going anywhere. Our world is under pressure from many crises simultaneously. There are simply much bigger fish to fry across the board. Fish that threaten our existence.

On the contrary, it will go somewhere if it reaches 1 million signatures by the 31st of July. If this happens the petition will be taken to congress and they will be required by international law to review and consider it. Considering it had around 430K signatures just a week ago and is now sitting at 864K, and that big youtubers such as penginz0, Asmongold, The Act Man, SomeOrdinaryGamers, Jackscepticeye (in a community post), Pewdiepie (on Twitter) and even Elon Musk (via a Twitter repost) have shown support, I'm pretty confident that it will reach the threshold. Still, the more people that sign it the better. Some of the signatures will most likely be invalid so ideally a couple of thousand over the 1 million requirement will be ideal.

It wont affect released games only new ones.

Desiato · July 2

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Why did everyone decide that after the cancellation of the new project all the company's efforts would go to eso?

Wishful thinking. I don't think ESO is going anywhere, but there's no reason to think this will result in a greater investment in it.

For some reason many people choose not to see what is right in front of them. ESO has already started transitioning to a new phase. It began last year when they internally decided there wouldn't be a chapter this year.

It wasn't simply a rebranding of the annual major dlc. It is substantially different than a chapter.

They made that decision solely based on factors related to eso because if they thought a chapter would be worth developing, they would have done so, regardless of the needs of another project.

Stamicka · July 2

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Why did everyone decide that after the cancellation of the new project all the company's efforts would go to eso?

Not sure, if it's a wave of layoffs that doesn't mean people are just being shuffled around to different teams, they're losing their jobs. It doesn't seem like they're adding more developers back to ESO or anything.

Pepegrillos · July 2

This game's development has been slowing down for years so that other secret MMO could grow. They turned the game into an endless cashcow to keep other projects running. With that secret MMO cancelled now and people getting shown the door. What was it all for?

DenverRalphy · July 2

Microsoft Gaming as a whole is falling apart and failing miserably.

As long as ZOS falls under its umbrella, they will be similarly affected as well.

Katheriah · July 2

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Why did everyone decide that after the cancellation of the new project all the company's efforts would go to eso?

Hopium

OutLaw_Nynx · July 2

😢

I would be devastated if ESO ends.

LadyGP · July 2

Pepegrillos wrote: »

This game's development has been slowing down for years so that other secret MMO could grow. They turned the game into an endless cashcow to keep other projects running. With that secret MMO cancelled now and people getting shown the door. What was it all for?

Thats how products are. Just look at Apple and their "Tesla killer" car. How many billions did they sink into that project only to pull the plug? Yeah, it's obviously different with Microsoft owning Zeni but.. the point is sometimes games just don't make it to market. Who knows what the real reason is. Could be money, could be they play tested it internally with various testers and the feedback was horrible (look at Bungie and their whole Marathon nightmare).

Bascially.... we will never know the "why" unless things come out on social media.

Do I think some developers might land at ESO from that closed down game - maybe. Do I think it will be a ton - no. If anything it's going to be some devs who have a relationship with the studio reaching back out asking for jobs or any role to fill. Aka - I'd be shocked if there was a deliberate hiring and ramp up again of devs in ESO. I also doubt this is the only game Zeni was working on.

Sluggy · July 2

Desiato wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Why did everyone decide that after the cancellation of the new project all the company's efforts would go to eso?

Wishful thinking. I don't think ESO is going anywhere, but there's no reason to think this will result in a greater investment in it.

For some reason many people choose not to see what is right in front of them. ESO has already started transitioning to a new phase. It began last year when they internally decided there wouldn't be a chapter this year.

It wasn't simply a rebranding of the annual major dlc. It is substantially different than a chapter.

They made that decision solely based on factors related to eso because if they thought a chapter would be worth developing, they would have done so, regardless of the needs of another project.

I'd argue it started three years ago when they changed release cadence and the nature of the content (moving more toward extensible, system-based content rather than one-off hand-made stuff). It's what you would call the 'long tail'. For sure they will continue to run the game for ages to come but also for sure the nature of what is released and how it is sold will be very different from the past.

By this point, most smaller companies would sell off the IP and game to another conglomerate who would basically put it on life support for minimal effort and try to milk it dry for the remainder of the dedicated player base. But in this case the IP is far too valuable and tied to a much larger franchise. So it makes much more sense for them to shift toward a system that can be run by a skeleton crew and allows for smaller patches that can extend already existing systems. My suspicions were that they were moving ESO in this direction exactly so that it could mostly auto-pilot while they focused on the next big thing. But with that next big thing gone I'm wondering exactly what will happen. Will they pivot and redouble their efforts into ESO? Or will they stay steady on course with what they have and transition into a future of mostly automated updates? To me as an outsider, either option seems viable right now. It will be interesting to see either way, I suppose.

It's a bit sad to see Matt go. He's clearly been the soul of the projects they've worked on since DAoC. But my guess is that he's looking for new challenges and projects. No one in a creative job wants to stay stuck forever on the grind of a single project.

zaria · July 2

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

My thoughts would be that it's more likely ESO gets content now that the new MMO is cancelled? But also feels bad for all the people working on the new MMO since 2018.

ZoS new MMO gotten canceled? I assume it was an Fallout MMO? Sources?
Now I assume some at MS looked into this and this yes its Zegler trying to fly an Concord.
Made for an limited audience, not that its anything wrong with that but with an AAAA budget who ESO had and that any serious MMO need to have.
Has it been major MMO after ESO except New World who failed? WOW classic it the only one I know who worked well.
MS is kind of running low on IP, well they can try something new

Abelon · July 2

This game will be just as fine as all the other top MMOs on the market. Established MMOs don't go anywhere anymore. People come and go, layoffs happen, projects get canceled, money gets moved back and forth, the MMOs go on. It goes for Square Enix, it goes for Blizzard, it goes for Zenimax. All of those MMOs have been through the same and worse, all of them are still kicking.

Launching new MMOs - that's the actual uncertainty nowadays. Pretty much all the releases that happened in the past years failed. So if anything, it was the other ongoing project that was more worrying. I guess... not anymore. Not that it's a good thing. Those are years worth of work and money that just went poof. And I doubt that it will directly lead to anything positive for ESO. Hopefully nothing too negative.

It's not dying though. I'm 100% certain of that. And the monetization (which is what people usually stress over) has already been kind of rock bottom for a while now. Doubt it's getting much worse.

Radiate77 · July 2

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I just hope ESO will survive for a few more years at least — even if it means doubling down on monetization to keep ESO financially relevant for ZOS.

Yeah, idk about that one, bud. ESO is already one of the most egregiously marketed games under the Microsoft umbrella. Much more and they won’t have to kill the game, there will be noone left to play it.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · July 2

Not worried. ESO and the Elder Scrolls IP prints money. Worst case is downsizing but the game will live on as long as they are bringing in new players. ES6 and future Elder Scrolls games will create new interest in ESO.

AzuraFan · July 2

Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry to hear that the new IP was cancelled. I hope anyone affected finds a job quickly. Pete Hines tweeted about people reaching out to him if they need to.

https://x.com/DCDeacon/status/1940436976102170886

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Microsoft Gaming as a whole is falling apart and failing miserably.

As long as ZOS falls under its umbrella, they will be similarly affected as well.

Yeah, does Microsoft even know what it's doing with gaming? One second it's all, "Gaming is the future at Microsoft", and the next they're cutting people. This is what, the second or third round of layoffs hitting their gaming division?

As far as how ESO will be affected, it's difficult to say. Maybe things will improve because this will become the sole focus again, or maybe something else will happen. Stay tuned, I guess.

Rungar · July 2

i hope they finally make some big needed changes.