Worse Than Teabagging: Blocking Quest Progress in Dungeons

Asikoo · May 27

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

They're referring to speed runs in the sense of grinding gear as fast as possible. Weapons only drop from the final boss, so you farm normal dungeons on repeat to kill the last boss several times as quickly as possible.

Why is your weapon more important than my skill point?
Why do I have to accept your speed run just because you only care about your loot, but you can't wait 10 seconds for me to complete my quest?

Why can't we both just play the game?

I can ask the same questions. Why is your skill point more valuable than someone's loot or time?

Any player can help you complete the dungeon as a team. If you don’t have time, that’s not my problem or ZOS’s fault. It’s your problem. Other players are here to actually play the game, and you shouldn’t have the authority to force low-level players to play the way you want.
Low-level players are just trying to experience the game and complete their quests, they need the group. Just because you don’t need others doesn’t mean you should have the power to ruin the experience for everyone else.
Sorry, mate I 100% disagree with you.

sans-culottes · May 27

Asikoo wrote: »

Because any player can help complete the dungeon as a team. If you don’t have time, that’s not my problem or ZOS fault. It’s your problem. Other players are here to actually play the game

Completing a dungeon quickly is not the same as not “playing the game.” It is a valid way to engage with repeatable content, especially in random queues. Suggesting otherwise is not a defense of teamwork. It is an attempt to redefine cooperation as compliance.

If you want coordinated pacing, then run with friends or guildies. If you queue with strangers, then you accept the variance that comes with it. That includes people moving quickly.

RealLoveBVB · May 27

Asikoo wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

They're referring to speed runs in the sense of grinding gear as fast as possible. Weapons only drop from the final boss, so you farm normal dungeons on repeat to kill the last boss several times as quickly as possible.

Why is your weapon more important than my skill point?
Why do I have to accept your speed run just because you only care about your loot, but you can't wait 10 seconds for me to complete my quest?

Why can't we both just play the game?

I can ask the same questions. Why is your skill point more valuable than someone's loot or time?

and you shouldn’t have the authority to force low-level players to play the way you want.

Okay, but explain me why you have the authority, but others not?

Asikoo · May 27

sans-culottes wrote: »

Completing a dungeon quickly is not the same as not “playing the game.” It is a valid way to engage with repeatable content, especially in random queues. Suggesting otherwise is not a defense of teamwork. It is an attempt to redefine cooperation as compliance.

If you want coordinated pacing, then run with friends or guildies. If you queue with strangers, then you accept the variance that comes with it. That includes people moving quickly.

It’s very easy to understand why low-level players need the skill point and the help of others. What’s hard for me to understand is why we should avoid them, just because some players “don’t have time” or are tired of running the same dungeons over and over again.

Why should I have to repeat the same dungeon five times, begging others on my knees to please let me get my skill point, just because you’re tired or you don’t have time?

Asikoo · May 27

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

I can ask the same questions. Why is your skill point more valuable than someone's loot or time?

and you shouldn’t have the authority to force low-level players to play the way you want.[/quote]

Okay, but explain me why you have the authority, but others not?

[/quote]

Low-level players need others. They use the tools the game gives them, just like veterans or anyone else, because they simply want to play the game.
And the game is: enter the dungeon, follow your quest, get your rewards.
I’m trying to play the game… you’re the one trying to skip it.... bro.

sans-culottes · May 27

Asikoo wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

Completing a dungeon quickly is not the same as not “playing the game.” It is a valid way to engage with repeatable content, especially in random queues. Suggesting otherwise is not a defense of teamwork. It is an attempt to redefine cooperation as compliance.

If you want coordinated pacing, then run with friends or guildies. If you queue with strangers, then you accept the variance that comes with it. That includes people moving quickly.

It’s very easy to understand why low-level players need the skill point and the help of others. What’s hard for me to understand is why we should avoid them, just because some players “don’t have time” or are tired of running the same dungeons over and over again.

Why should I have to repeat the same dungeon five times, begging others on my knees to please let me get my skill point, just because you’re tired or you don’t have time?

No one is avoiding low-level players. What people are avoiding is being conscripted into someone else’s pacing.

If your skill point matters, then the system already supports you: queue again, or form a group where your objective is agreed upon. What it does not support is forcing random players—who may have done the dungeon dozens or even hundreds of times—to reenact it at your speed.

The queue pairs strangers. It does not bind them to your expectations.

tincanman · May 27

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Most dungeons in the game auto complete if you skip parts; only a handful of the base game dungeons don't do this.

This is true.

However, for some it's not immediately apparent that you don't have stand around waiting for some npc to start/stop monologuing and can happily tally-ho with the rest of the group to the end, instead of being unceremoniously ported.

This seems to be the eternal paradox for pugs(judging by the frequency of these kind of threads): newer players who are just sedately following quest arrows/dialogue while more experienced players are zooming towards completion in auto-pilot. Both are within their rights to play as they choose and neither is wrong to do so - speed runners are no more guilty of griefing than a player who insists everyone slow down while they listen to every npc, read every book and open every container, although admittedly the speed-runner can now force the pace by leveraging the 'join encounter in progress' process.

Cooperharley · May 27

Asikoo wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Most dungeons in the game auto complete if you skip parts; only a handful of the base game dungeons don't do this.

And that’s exactly right! So… I want to call ZOS’s attention to this issue so they can fix it, one way or another. We need a solution so players can complete their quests!

Sure dude, what I'm saying, and what many others have said is your "call for attention to ZOS" is hugely misled in its wording. We should not be calling for BANNING players, we should be suggesting constructive alternatives to current gameplay.

Blood_again · May 27

Asikoo wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

OP I feel your pain. It is awful when you try to do a quest, but other players rush through.
But your request is unrealistic. Dungeon reward is designed to motivate people to fastrun. Fastrun will never be a bannable action, if no exploit or bug were used.

If you want a realistic solution for you: run the dungeon quests with friends.
It is not fair, sure. It won't bring you that satisfaction, probably.
But, if you wish running the dungeon quest - you'll manage to do it that way.
If you wish some revenge toward those horrible malicious fastrunners who disrespected your wish - just leave it. Be a realist.

Whis week I ran Nimic with my partner, doing all the puzzles. That was amazing. Believe me, all those fastruns when group skipped everything... they meant nothing.

If you want a realistic solution for everybody: ask for quest dungeon mode.
ZoS allow and motivate fastruns by design? Require the design that will allow running quest for those, who want questing.
Ask it and ask again. We will be heard.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin please, quest mode for group dungeons is still in community wishlist.
It would solve many frustrations and conflicts.

Sadly, I completely disagree with you. ESO multiplayer game design is about "joining others and completing content together."

The game has evolved over the years, we've gotten more powerful items, and because of that, the content has become easier to complete. That’s the only reason players are able to skip mechanics and do speed runs.

But in any case, this is NOT how the game is meant to be played. I bet ZOS doesn’t advertise or promote this kind of gameplay when trying to attract new players. If ZOS doesn't advertise this type of gameplay to attract new players, why do they even allow it?

You are right as for "why people are able to speedrun".
You miss the part "why people want to speedrun" which is a part of the game design too.

Set collections, transmutes, bonus exp, undaunted keys. It is the main set of the rewards that attract people you meet in dungeon finder group.
All of them allow multiplication with multiple runs (even with alts).
All of them works like "if you do it faster, you obtain more for the same amount of time".
None of them motivate to run slower. You get zero ingame reward for killing all the mobs or speaking with NPCs more then once in a character life.
Sorry, that's how it is meant to be played by game design. Meant by rewards that makes people to play the content. Opposing to how you meant it to be played.

I don't like this design, cos it makes a conflict of interests. But it is how it is done, and I really want it to be divided for two conflicting motivations.

Elsonso · May 27

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Or just change it so that you don’t need to wait for the NPCs to RP before they give you the quest and instead you just auto accept the quest once you enter the area

Yes. Make quest stages so the quest can progress without waiting for that slow NPC in Banished Cells

Asikoo · May 27

Elsonso wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Or just change it so that you don’t need to wait for the NPCs to RP before they give you the quest and instead you just auto accept the quest once you enter the area

Yes. Make quest stages so the quest can progress without waiting for that slow NPC in Banished Cells

That’s definitely one of the "cursed" dungeons. Speedrunners can’t wait 20 seconds in a Normal dungeon?
If they can’t even pause for a few seconds here, then honestly, they should be punished just like players who teabag, because forcing others to repeat a dungeon 3, 4, or even more times just to finish a quest is far more punishing than a simple 3day ban for not waiting/repect others.

The same goes for Vaults of Madness, Tempest Island, Volenfell, and all the others.

Cooperharley · May 27

katanagirl1 · May 27

I support OP.

The random daily dungeon reward is transmute crystals for filling up an another group and not having to wait the full queue. It’s like you getting to skip ahead in line to get what you want already. Stopping to let the new player pick up the quest is a reasonable request. Too bad they can’t deny transmutes if the quest cannot be completed.

IviRo · May 27

Asikoo wrote: »

Teabagging actions can get an account banned. I never really understood how a simple crouch action can lead to a ban, but okay.

What about doing quests in normal dungeons? We always have to ask: "Please, I have a quest can you let me finish it? Just wait 10 seconds. Please! " And even then, players often don't respect that. Disrespecting others by not letting them complete their quest should also be a bannable offense.

It's honestly crazy how players can’t wait just 10 seconds. Just 10 seconds, and they still rush ahead. This needs to change.

If teabagging is a bannable action, then preventing others from completing their quest and earning a skill point is even worse and it needs to stop. I’ve had to repeat the same dungeon 3 or 4 times just because players refuse to wait a few seconds.

EDIT:
This needs to change. Either start punishing players who rush through and skip normal(NORMAL) dungeons just to mess with others' experience, or change dungeon design to prevent skipping entirely make all players interact with the dungeon content. One way or another, this behavior needs to stop.

And to those who say, “You can bring friends or guildmates if you want to do the quest,” I say the same thing back: “You can bring friends or guildmates if you want to speedrun and skip everything.”

Me and many others are here to actually play the game not to skip it.

Seriously, you're asking to penalize players who don't allow you to complete a mission. Instead of asking the developers to add a story version of this dungeon for solo players, your message is more selfish than people who just came in on extra characters to run a dungeon that is 5-8 minutes long.

All dungeons can be run in normal version alone, yes you will need to learn the mechanics and somehow position yourself, but if you take a companion, dungeons, except DLC pass much easier. (DLC dungeons can be run too)

You know, I can also come here and write to complicate the life of solo players who can not perform basic actions in dungeons, mechanics that prescribe the developers and do not understand what to do in the game and why they are here.

This is an MMO project in which no one owes you anything, you can find a group of interest or go solo with a companion.

I've been playing TESO for over 11 years and I've seen a lot of things, especially non constructive demands like these because someone found it offensive that he wasn't allowed to complete a quest in a 4 person dungeon. You on the forum a long time ago could have found someone to complete the quest with either in the zone or group finder. But spoil the life of one person who probably brings the developers more money than anyone, and if you do such a thing, there will be an outflow of people who will not tolerate such a thing, and therefore it is a loss and the developers will reconsider the issue and perhaps the pendulum will swing in your direction is not good.

Therefore, it is worth asking for a story version of the dungeon, and not ban a person because someone does not want to find alternative versions of the solution to their problem (although I wrote a few of them). You need this first and foremost, not the people in the group.

Whenever you think you have an awesome idea to solve a problem, it's worth analyzing it and finding an alternative solution, instead of writing unconstructive ideas on the form.

Asikoo · May 27

Forum mods, you may close this topic now if you wish. There’s nothing else to say, and the troll players have woken up.

twisttop138 · May 27

I'm kind of loath to add more comment to another discussion about this, but I think the very bottom line to triage this issue would be for Zos to finish fixing the rest of the base game dungeons quests. Bring them in line so they auto complete like the rest when the last boss is killed. The rest of it's just a never ending argument. For myself, I go with the group. If I want to actually play a dungeon, I get guildies. I know some can't do that but I feel this is the best solution for determining a specific outcome. Not to say though, if I'm in a random and someone mentions they have the quest, I will of course do everything I can to help but we cant control everyone.

NoticeMeArkay · May 27

Let a boss only spawn in when the previous one has been killed.

valenwood_vegan · May 27

Sometimes when these posts come up, I start to think they should just remove random dungeons and make people meet and communicate with others. Then again, some might have difficulties with that depending on their attitude towards those whose help they need.

Warhawke_80 · May 27

Asikoo wrote: »

Teabagging actions can get an account banned. I never really understood how a simple crouch action can lead to a ban, but okay.

What about doing quests in normal dungeons? We always have to ask: "Please, I have a quest can you let me finish it? Just wait 10 seconds. Please! " And even then, players often don't respect that. Disrespecting others by not letting them complete their quest should also be a bannable offense.

It's honestly crazy how players can’t wait just 10 seconds. Just 10 seconds, and they still rush ahead. This needs to change.

If teabagging is a bannable action, then preventing others from completing their quest and earning a skill point is even worse and it needs to stop. I’ve had to repeat the same dungeon 3 or 4 times just because players refuse to wait a few seconds.

EDIT:
This needs to change. Either start punishing players who rush through and skip normal(NORMAL) dungeons just to mess with others' experience, or change dungeon design to prevent skipping entirely make all players interact with the dungeon content. One way or another, this behavior needs to stop.

And to those who say, “You can bring friends or guildmates if you want to do the quest,” I say the same thing back: “You can bring friends or guildmates if you want to speedrun and skip everything.”

Me and many others are here to actually play the game not to skip it.

In my opinion the solution is a Story mode where you can complete the quest with a friend or companion...and listening to Rich that is exactly what's going to happen eventually.

reazea · May 27

Asikoo wrote: »

Teabagging actions can get an account banned. I never really understood how a simple crouch action can lead to a ban, but okay.

What about doing quests in normal dungeons? We always have to ask: "Please, I have a quest can you let me finish it? Just wait 10 seconds. Please! " And even then, players often don't respect that. Disrespecting others by not letting them complete their quest should also be a bannable offense.

It's honestly crazy how players can’t wait just 10 seconds. Just 10 seconds, and they still rush ahead. This needs to change.

If teabagging is a bannable action, then preventing others from completing their quest and earning a skill point is even worse and it needs to stop. I’ve had to repeat the same dungeon 3 or 4 times just because players refuse to wait a few seconds.

EDIT:
This needs to change. Either start punishing players who rush through and skip normal(NORMAL) dungeons just to mess with others' experience, or change dungeon design to prevent skipping entirely make all players interact with the dungeon content. One way or another, this behavior needs to stop.

And to those who say, “You can bring friends or guildmates if you want to do the quest,” I say the same thing back: “You can bring friends or guildmates if you want to speedrun and skip everything.”

Me and many others are here to actually play the game not to skip it.

If running a normal dungeon just expect that there is a high likelihood of someone wanting to get it over ASAP to complete their random normal daily quest. There are only a few dungeons where someone running ahead prevents a player from completing the dungeon quests. A better solution would be for ZOS to change how the quests work in those few dungeons so the quest completes when the dungeon run completes.

sans-culottes · May 27

Asikoo wrote: »

Forum mods, you may close this topic now if you wish. There’s nothing else to say, and the troll players have woken up.

I’m sorry you feel that way. However, disagreeing with your opinion does not constitute trolling.

ESO_player123 · May 27

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Sometimes when these posts come up, I start to think they should just remove random dungeons and make people meet and communicate with others. Then again, some might have difficulties with that depending on their attitude towards those whose help they need.

That would be definitely a bad solution. The only reason I participate in group content is because we have group finders. I would never have started doing trials if it was not for addition of the second group finder.

Soarora · May 27

Please no, it should not be bannable. Making it bannable could be subjective between “you’re banned because you didn’t wait for someone to read every dialogue choice” to “you’re banned because you didn’t even know they needed the quest to begin with”. If you need the quest and you’re struggling that badly to pick it up, go into the dungeon solo and pick up the quest and then queue. You cannot define what the dungeon finder’s culture is. The culture is already established and we’ve had so many discussions here on the forums about how to make it better but never expect it to be better. If you want slower runs, use group finder, guilds, friends, or just get good enough to do veteran runs instead (nondlc still can have running ahead problems, but I don’t think it’s culturally as bad as normal).

And to pre-defend myself: I hate the running ahead and I only do so if (1) the entire group is running through (2) everyones being extremely abnormally slow (3) I’m tanking and going to group the adds up before the group gets there so it’s easier. But people running ahead aren’t doing it TO break your quests. They are selfish and don’t care about you, yes, but they’re self-serving, not doing it to be mean.

Asikoo · May 27

Soarora wrote: »

Please no, it should not be bannable. Making it bannable could be subjective between “you’re banned because you didn’t wait for someone to read every dialogue choice” to “you’re banned because you didn’t even know they needed the quest to begin with”. If you need the quest and you’re struggling that badly to pick it up, go into the dungeon solo and pick up the quest and then queue. You cannot define what the dungeon finder’s culture is. The culture is already established and we’ve had so many discussions here on the forums about how to make it better but never expect it to be better. If you want slower runs, use group finder, guilds, friends, or just get good enough to do veteran runs instead (nondlc still can have running ahead problems, but I don’t think it’s culturally as bad as normal).

And to pre-defend myself: I hate the running ahead and I only do so if (1) the entire group is running through (2) everyones being extremely abnormally slow (3) I’m tanking and going to group the adds up before the group gets there so it’s easier. But people running ahead aren’t doing it TO break your quests. They are selfish and don’t care about you, yes, but they’re self-serving, not doing it to be mean.

Since you didn’t read all the comments here, I’ll repeat myself just to reply to you.

Why do I have to avoid the group finder, play solo, or join Discord, just to complete one quest from the game, while you don’t?
If you want to speedrun a normal dungeon, if you're tired of the content, or if you're a strong player, then you should be the one avoiding the group finder. Go run the dungeon solo or with like-minded friends.

Strong players don’t need the dungeon finder. New or weaker (low level) players do.

Soarora · May 27

Asikoo wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Please no, it should not be bannable. Making it bannable could be subjective between “you’re banned because you didn’t wait for someone to read every dialogue choice” to “you’re banned because you didn’t even know they needed the quest to begin with”. If you need the quest and you’re struggling that badly to pick it up, go into the dungeon solo and pick up the quest and then queue. You cannot define what the dungeon finder’s culture is. The culture is already established and we’ve had so many discussions here on the forums about how to make it better but never expect it to be better. If you want slower runs, use group finder, guilds, friends, or just get good enough to do veteran runs instead (nondlc still can have running ahead problems, but I don’t think it’s culturally as bad as normal).

And to pre-defend myself: I hate the running ahead and I only do so if (1) the entire group is running through (2) everyones being extremely abnormally slow (3) I’m tanking and going to group the adds up before the group gets there so it’s easier. But people running ahead aren’t doing it TO break your quests. They are selfish and don’t care about you, yes, but they’re self-serving, not doing it to be mean.

Since you didn’t read all the comments here, I’ll repeat myself just to reply to you.

Why do I have to avoid the group finder, play solo, or join Discord, just to complete one quest from the game, while you don’t?
If you want to speedrun a normal dungeon, if you're tired of the content, or if you're a strong player, then you should be the one avoiding the group finder. Go run the dungeon solo or with like-minded friends.

Strong players don’t need the dungeon finder. New or weaker (low level) players do.

Because that’s the culture established and it’s a lot faster to solo queue 12 times for transmute than looking for 3 other people and having everyone swaps characters repeatedly. I guarantee you that the vast majority of people who speedrun dungeons don’t even read the forums. Do I like that normal dungeons get speedran? No. Do I think BANNING PEOPLE is the solution? No, better transmute from trials and pledges than from random normals is. But ZOS won’t even fix DLC transmute rewards, so that’s not happening. Simple as that. What IS potentially happening is that ZOS has on their radar the desire for a quest mode where people can go in and do the quest on an ultra easy mode. Wait for that, because that’s realistically the only solution we’re getting to this. In the meantime, like I said, get the quest before queueing or group up some other way. The power is in your hands to mitigate your frustration, but you cannot move mountains.
Also, strong players do deserve to use the tool accessible to everyone. Pugging is one of my favorite activities because I want to help people clear in a way that’s enjoyable for all of us. Not all good players are selfish.

ZOS_GregoryV · May 27

Asikoo wrote: »

Forum mods, you may close this topic now if you wish. There’s nothing else to say, and the troll players have woken up.

This thread has been closed per the OP's request.